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What are peoples opinions on the various necron IC's on offer?

is Imhotek worth the points in normal 40k or is he best saved for big Apoc games?
etc
etc



i normally use an Overlord 9with phaeron) but yesterday tried out Anrakyr in a CCB for the first time and was suitably impressed (and he's cheaper than the lord i normally take too!). The sheer joy of shooting a Librarian with his own land raider is still making me chuckle.

What are other people opinions and experiences with the other Necron IC'S

Immotekh: great in a list built around him
Nemesor: hit and miss, mostly miss. His ability just doesn't do enough currently
Illuminator: he'd be great is he was just an upgraded cryptek, but he sucks as you cannot take 2 courts
Obyron: he's great, but because you cannot take a ccb or another court with him, he's lacking.
Orikan: he's there for ctan gimmicks, I personally think he sucks
Anarykr or whatever his name is: was great back when his ability worked while embarked... Now, he's just an overpriced scythe lord. Its better to just get a vanilla overlord w/ scythe

Each charecter fits a v ery specific playstyle it seems, but until 6th, the potential of some charecters is a mystery

Why cant Mind in the Machine be used while embarked? just checked the FAQ and it's not mentioned.

Praxiss wrote:Why cant Mind in the Machine be used while embarked? just checked the FAQ and it's not mentioned.

Brb faq states abilities that are not shooting cannot be used out of firing points, not sure on the exact wording, but pretty well nerfs njal, anarkyr, and some other special chars

Ill be as honest as possible, they are all poor in a normal list.

Stormlord can make a pretty solid choice, but you need to build around him, which usually see's tremorcrons being used with pulseteks.

However, i run a single overlord with a few basic things in a barge and a court, then i take a Dlord aswell.
Granted he doesent look all that great, but S7 with 2D6 pen flying around does some serious damage when used well.

Not to mention his ability to tear through longfangs and the likes that will bug you for a few turns usually.

However, i still run an older list, so i still take destroyers




On a note though, it depends on how you want to play.
Stormlord and tremorcrons is pretty solid, but it will be a bit too much for friendly games as it soon gets to annoy people.

Arankyr is good in lists with immortals(one squad gets furoius charge and counter-attack) and for using the CCB in high-risk high-reward situations, his mind in the machine, arrow and str 8 Int 3 scythe(furious charge remember?) and counter-attack can gut an army if successful. Zandrek and obyron are good together but only in large games and the stormlord is hit-or-miss, (gauntlet of fire instead of scythe WTF?)

I'd say with the likely exception Imotekh, they are mostly situational. Judging by equipment, they are underpriced, but judging by actual effectiveness, they are overpriced, IMO.

My opinion is Imotekh is the best HQ choice we can make against armies like the Adepticon winning GK Coteaz list. That's at 1850, I don't believe it's even close at 2k points. In other words, if you had to play Brad's Gray Knights list and beat him in one game, you'd want to build your army around Imotekh.

Problem is as others have mentioned, with just a little bit of bad luck he won't do anything. (Also, with a little bit of good luck our opponent will be squalling about die rolls.)

It depends on your playing environment, I think.

As has been said a lot, Imotekh is great for the Nightfighting (assuming you build your army around that), the 4+ sieze (unless it's against Orkz), and the lightning.

The lightning works very well for softening up enemy targets if it's a soft vehicle heavy list - so particularly nasty against Orks, who can mitigate it with KFF, and Dark Eldar, who generally suffer.

Buuuut he's a slouch in close combat. Any CC specialists will likely take him out without too much issue.

So, Imotekh is all about affecting the game around him, but is inefficient at directly affecting the game.


Past that, Zandrek is the one that interests me, but he doesn't receive the best feedback. Interested in giving him a go, however.

In general, I see normal Overlords being the premium all rounder choice.

I'll agree with a lot of the other posters here in that our Unique, ie, "named" IC choices aren't superb.

The problem I see is that our codex is overrated. Without "cheese" we don't stand much of a chance, most codices can field lists with equivalent combat power for some 70% of the cost. (For an illustration of what happens when we try to go toe-to-toe with a standard list, see the battle report by Tomb King's IG just slaughtering a Necron CCB army without night-fight capability.) Basically, we can't "fight fair" in a competitive environment.

Our Unique Characters do give us special capabilities. But they're so damn expensive. (Real and opportunity cost.) We're between a rock and a hard place.

Kharrak wrote:
Buuuut he's a slouch in close combat. Any CC specialists will likely take him out without too much issue.

Necron rule of thumb... if their name doesn't start with 'Canoptek', it doesn't belong in assault.

ive been a fan of nemesor, however he is another of those build list around him types

Imotehk is a "general" in the truest sense of the term, he leads from the back.
So is Zandrehk, pop him on a hill, abuse his abilities, not great in assault either.
Honestly, I think Obyron would be the most used we have if he could give you a court/CCB

I am looking forward to using Imhotek in a big Apoc game. Put him in with tremorteks and maybe use szezra (sp?) to try and boost a BIG blob of warriros to BS5 or something.

teehee.

Frankly, Necron ICs don't often do well in anything less than 2000 points.
There are a few exceptions, mind you (I'm actually pretty fond of running a Anrakyr & Szeras + ResOrb Lord + 10 "Eternals" Deathstar at the 1000 point level), but generally I'd be wary of including anyone named in any competitive situations.
(that is, until Forgeworld gives us the model and rules for Executioner Ezandrakh, the Destroyer Overlord of the Red Harvest Destroyer Cults... HE'S IN THE CODEX, PEOPLE. IT'S NOT IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO INCLUDE HIM IN THE STUFF THEY'RE MAKING FOR IA12.)

With that deathstar unit, are you using gauss Immortals or tesla?

So you end up with 10 Immortals with counter attack, Furious charge and BS5/S5/T5. Plus the unit has a staff of light, res orb, lance and GoF.

It is still a 500 point unit with 3+ saves, no invul and still mediocre on the charge due to I3, also only 1 power weapon in the mix as well (total of 25 normal and 4 power weapons S7 attacks on the charge).

Does it actually perform well?

I guess the biggest plus is that at T5 and 4+RP they are pretty tough to keep down.

skoffs wrote:Frankly, Necron ICs don't often do well in anything less than 2000 points.

There are quite a few 2k tournaments, though. I'm frankly perplexed that I don't read much about Necron lists with Imotekh in them at tournaments. (I don't get out much myself, too much time working.) I'm guessing the good Imotekh tournament lists, if they exist, are getting eaten by the Demons and 'Nids in the earlier rounds.


Obyron does seem like the most dependable dude for us. Dammit, why didn't they give Imotekh a scythe, would that have been so much of a stretch? I do see a few 2250pt tournaments, that's an opportunity for a try with multi-IC Necrons.

Praxiss wrote:With that deathstar unit, are you using gauss Immortals or tesla?

Does it actually perform well?

Tesla, of course (they like to be mobile).

As a Deathstar, I've run this a few times with great success in low point games:
Anrakyr = 165
Szeras = 100
Lord (Warscythe, MS Scarabs, ResOrb) = 90
10 Immortals (tesla) = 170
[total = 525]

11 guys with Furious Charge and Counter Attack (10 of which will get a BS5, S5, or T5 boost, any of which are a welcome bonus).
Two Warscythes, one Mindshackle Scarab.
The whole unit counts as having Defensive Grenades, so are less vulnerable to assault, and everyone gets back up on a 4+.

Sometimes I consider replacing the Lord or Szeras with a Chrono-tek (have to add an additional Overlord to the army if you're replacing Szeras, however) to make sure Anrakyr doesn't miss with his one-shot S10 AP1 arrow, as well as his hacking attempts with Mind In The Machine (also helps with important characters who happen to fail their get-back-up rolls. Did I mention rerolling works wonders with tesla weapons, too?).

They're a little slow, so I'd consider sticking them in a Night Scythe.

Regardless, this squad tends to get sh*t done.

Ah, if they are in a Scythe then it makes more sense.

Would have to proxy a Nightscythe somehow.....

Whiel we're talking Anrakyr, hwo do you model him? Just use the barge Lord or have you done a conversion?

Barge Overlord works well enough for me (however, I would like to see GW's version of him... highly unlikely they'll release one, though).

If you want to proxy a Night Scythe, probably have to use one of the bigger Eldar or Tau skimmer tanks for the time being (at least, until next month when the fliers get released).

I like using Anrakyr, while the barge nerf really hurt him I have switched to using him in a squad of 10 Immortals with a cryptek to Veil him around the board. Creates a pretty nasty unit since he can upgrade the squad on Immortals he veils around with.

Its a blast to play. Is it better than a naked CCB Olord? Probably not but its a nice way to get some life out of a character that got hit hard by the faq.

Anpu-adom wrote:

Kharrak wrote:
Buuuut he's a slouch in close combat. Any CC specialists will likely take him out without too much issue.

Necron rule of thumb... if their name doesn't start with 'Canoptek', it doesn't belong in assault.

i must disagree to a point. my Olord with 2+/3++, MSS does wonderfully in the right combat. i have been using Orikan in a WW list and his reserve reroll is very handy with a monolith.

I prefer the Vanilla overlords in most of my lists, compared to the ICs. However, Imotekh and Orikan with the right lists, are great choices.

Anraykr used to be my go-to HQ, but with the MitM nerf, he's not worth it anymore IMO.

I stay away from Obyron, Zahndrekh, and Szeras for the most part. They don't do enough for me, and their respective downsides prevent them from being really competitive, IMO.

I got some experience with Imotekh, Obyron, and Zahndrekh.

Imotekh works well with many lists and as he is essentially equivalent to two pulseteks but is also a phaeron and tough to kill, he is well worth his points. The problem with him is that the lightning is highly inconsistent and that he hurts my own shooting. So, must use in CC lists, like my 18 wraiths list.

Note: chronotekh cannot help with maintaining the storm because he only allows a reroll during a phase. The beginning of a turn is technically not a phase. I used to play it otherwise but convinced myself otherwise. Same with stealing the initiative because it happens before the first turn.

Zahndrekh looks better than he is. The only useful power is giving units special rules, usually furious charge on wraiths and tank hunter on blaster immortals and annibarges. Taking special rules away does not work well in general, because the armies actually have to have them to take away, and usually it does not make that much difference anyway. The phased reinforcements means your units must be in the reserve, which they most often should not be, as we have an expensive army and need every boot on the ground as soon as possible. All of that, and for 185 is a hard sell. Yes, he is tough to kill and has a res orb, but we all know how such characters die - getting swept with the troop unit they joined. So, a thumb down.

Obyron is crippled by lack of CCB and court, as well as no shifter. For a combat monster, lack of invul is pretty bad. The cloak is nice but not enough there otherwise. He also takes up HQ unless Zahndrekh is around, for which look above.

I am still banging my head on the wall trying to figure out how to support the 18 wraiths and Imotekh with something marginally comparable in effectiveness.

My overall feeling is that why the codex offers a lot of options, all units with the notable exception of the wraiths are somehow seriously gimped/unfinished/flawed. I know people talk about synergy but the reality is most other armies don't have these problems of getting anything to work half decent on its own. The opportunity for synergy is there but not enough to carry the day in a real TAC list.

Doesn't a D-lord support Wraiths quite well? Not tried it myself as i dont run wraiths (dont have any, cant afford any)

Necrontyr40k wrote:Note: chronotekh cannot help with maintaining the storm because he only allows a reroll during a phase. The beginning of a turn is technically not a phase. I used to play it otherwise but convinced myself otherwise. Same with stealing the initiative because it happens before the first turn.

Read the faq.

Necrontyr40k wrote:Note: chronotekh cannot help with maintaining the storm because he only allows a reroll during a phase. The beginning of a turn is technically not a phase. I used to play it otherwise but convinced myself otherwise. Same with stealing the initiative because it happens before the first turn.

aside: you're limiting yourself unnecessarily with this, necrontyr. It's pretty clear cut that the chrono can be used to maintain the storm, ie, from the Necron FAQ:

Q: If an army contains Imotekh the Stormlord can a
Cryptek with a chronometron use it to re-roll the roll to
see if the Night Fighting special rule stays in effect? (p85)
A: Only if Imotekh is in the same unit as the Cryptek
with the chronometron.

For a 40k rule, it doesn't get much more clearcut.

Back on topic though,

Necrontyr40k wrote:I am still banging my head on the wall trying to figure out how to support the 18 wraiths and Imotekh with something marginally comparable in effectiveness.

My overall feeling is that why the codex offers a lot of options, all units with the notable exception of the wraiths are somehow seriously gimped/unfinished/flawed. I know people talk about synergy but the reality is most other armies don't have these problems of getting anything to work half decent on its own. The opportunity for synergy is there but not enough to carry the day in a real TAC list.

I totally agree that it's harder to use a Necron army, not only do they need to use synergy (ie, force multipliers) it's very easy to spend all your points on "synergy" and not enough on "bulk".

Regarding Imotekh support, use a mixed list! He works well with fire troops. Someone's always waving around a flashlight, you can usually find targets for your lance crypteks. Save some points by taking fewer wraiths and instead adding some scarab units, as well as swapping out some Annihilation Barges for spyders. Don't be afraid to pulse during your turn if your opponent is hanging back - if you don't have targets due to night fight but would have targets for a half-dozen lance crypteks if night weren't there, get rid of the night. You'll get more good opportunities b/c you pulse in your turn just before you fire, ie, you can be sure your opponent doesn't have time to grab cover. (And he'll have already used all his silly smoke.) Comes up once every few games. (Also just torques your opponent off.)

edit: actinium ninja'd me on the faq, rude bugger.

I like that the necrons are more difficult to use. I find that my senses and abilities were seriously dulled after playing with my grey knights. Need to get my tactical mind back. Its fun not playing "throw whatever at whatever" and winning nearly all the time.

Praxiss wrote:Doesn't a D-lord support Wraiths quite well? Not tried it myself as i dont run wraiths (dont have any, cant afford any)

DLords cannot take a phase shifter, which together with being IC means they suck up all the PW attacks. T6 helps but only to a point. They also are not overlords, which means you lose one court per DLord. Finally, while also being jump infantry, they do not ignore terrain like the wraiths they usually join, so placement becomes a problem dependent on the map.

Regarding wraiths, I have been using my CSM terminators and obliterators as proxies while converting my own wraiths. otherwise, 18 wraiths would run over 300 dollars, which I am not willing to spend. Regarding puppets of war, the models would not be legal in tournaments. GW conversions are better this way.

Thank you for pointing out the faq about Imotekh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Randall Turner wrote:

Regarding Imotekh support, use a mixed list! He works well with fire troops. Someone's always waving around a flashlight, you can usually find targets for your lance crypteks. Save some points by taking fewer wraiths and instead adding some scarab units, as well as swapping out some Annihilation Barges for spyders.

Yes, that was one of my previous Imotekh lists: 12 wraiths, 10 scarabs, 3 spyders, 2 annibarges. The problem is scarabs are only good against vehicles. Against any dedicated assault units they get killed by their low toughness and fearless wounds. That is why I switched to 18 wraiths and have not looked back.

Don't be afraid to pulse during your turn if your opponent is hanging back - if you don't have targets due to night fight but would have targets for a half-dozen lance crypteks if night weren't there, get rid of the night. You'll get more good opportunities b/c you pulse in your turn just before you fire, ie, you can be sure your opponent doesn't have time to grab cover. (And he'll have already used all his silly smoke.) Comes up once every few games. (Also just torques your opponent off.)

That drives up the cost even further. it also generally requires a second court.

I toyed with the idea of taking two full lancetek courts including 2 pulseteks and then sticking them in a ghost ark each, but the cost for just those 4 units is close to 700 pts.

Another route is to forget about shooting and try to support the wraiths with elite choices, like a shard with gaze and worldscape, and/or lychguard with sword and board with orb lord and veiltek attachments. But, the shard is markedly slower, while lychguard will spend a turn sucking up basic weapon shots before they can assault something meaningful. I have not tried this routes yet.

Necrontyr40k wrote:Yes, that was one of my previous Imotekh lists: 12 wraiths, 10 scarabs, 3 spyders, 2 annibarges. The problem is scarabs are only good against vehicles. Against any dedicated assault units they get killed by their low toughness and fearless wounds. That is why I switched to 18 wraiths and have not looked back.

Don't be afraid to pulse during your turn if your opponent is hanging back - if you don't have targets due to night fight but would have targets for a half-dozen lance crypteks if night weren't there, get rid of the night. You'll get more good opportunities b/c you pulse in your turn just before you fire, ie, you can be sure your opponent doesn't have time to grab cover. (And he'll have already used all his silly smoke.) Comes up once every few games. (Also just torques your opponent off.)

That drives up the cost even further. it also generally requires a second court.

I toyed with the idea of taking two full lancetek courts including 2 pulseteks and then sticking them in a ghost ark each, but the cost for just those 4 units is close to 700 pts.

Another route is to forget about shooting and try to support the wraiths with elite choices, like a shard with gaze and worldscape, and/or lychguard with sword and board with orb lord and veiltek attachments. But, the shard is markedly slower, while lychguard will spend a turn sucking up basic weapon shots before they can assault something meaningful. I have not tried this routes yet.

My "standard" HQ makeup is Imotekh, CCB Lord, 2xCourts including "n" lanceteks with 2xSolar Pulse. The additional cost for the pulses is only 40pts, assuming you're taking two lanceteks anyway, which is pretty reasonable. Actually, if you take Alex Fennel's list that he published here, sub in Imotekh for his foot phaeron, you'll come up with something pretty close to my base. He also mixes a scarab component/spyder team with wraiths. I go lighter, swapping an AB for the Monolith, and more significantly I am playing almost exclusively at 2K so I've a few more worky-bits including more crypteks. A wraithwing variant just works, though, good for you. I'm a bit model-challenged there. I have six old style lead minnies, tried using some 'Nid replacements but neh, ugly.