Are Foot-dar bad?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**-Nazdreg-**

Are we talking about Footdar or about Reece? oO

Because Reece beating some heavy guys has absolutely nothing in common with Footdar being a good army, because in the hands of an experienced general every army is somehow useful.
The differences are decreasing. And again in a world of Anti-mech-lists it is only logical to play infantry.

**Smitty0305**

Ailaros wrote:
Smitty0305 wrote: How do you define a higher tier player?

Somebody who understands the odds they're playing and plays them as exactly as they intend to. It's a similar skill set to how you become a more successful blackjack or backgammon player over time.

Smitty0305 wrote: You cant accidentally beat really good people at adepticon. He Tied with Tony Kopach who has WON Adepticon and WON Nova, and got 2nd this year.

And you can't deny the role of dice as well as other non-controllable factors (like terrain or particular mission, or who he played against in what order, or if his opponents got enough sleep the night before, etc. etc.) in a game of 40k. Furthermore, because there are these uncontrollable factors, 40k isn't a game of skill in the same way that chess or football is. Saying that a person won a game of 40k based purely on their character is a person is just as silly as a baseball player thanking Jesus for a home run he hit.

Furthermore, I'm not saying that reecius isn't a good player, but I am saying that you can't know that over just a couple of games. The sample set is too small.

Smitty0305 wrote: Honestly you sound jealous.

I'm actually not. I don't care what other people win whichever games of 40k (well, that I'm not playing in). In order to be envious of success, I'd have to put a great value on the particular success, which I don't.

What you're seeing isn't jealousy that somebody won a couple of games of 40k, but contempt at people who use this fact as a shoddy excuse to make unreasonable arguments about abstract ideas.

It's less jealousy, and more...

... which should have little, if any bearing on a discussion on the quality of an entire army play style in general.

Smitty0305 wrote:I would bet my Life that Reece would absolutely Table your IG Blob.

Dear god, your arguments have devolved to chest thumping?

Yes, footdar are good because your dad could beat up my dad...

What have you acomplished besides playing in 10 man RTT's at 1500 points?

If you want to prove me wrong, and show me that comming out in the top 16 out of 250 players is easy, then go do it yourself.

**Kharrak**

Played against footdar in my first game at a tourney two weeks ago.

His ONLY vehicles were two units of War Walkers. Pathfinders, full unit of Shee's, two Guardain units, Khaine, Wraithlord, and Seers with Eldrad (naturally). This is what I recall, at least.

Honestly, it was the seer council that did me in. Cut through my initial assaults against them (since I could see they were the biggest danger), and they managed to get into combat with my vehicles. Combat always ended in my turn, so he could happily hop from one round of vehicles to another.

His Doom targets were spot on, and Blade stormed the right targets.

He pretty much wiped out the parts of my army that were dangerous to him.

Lost the game 6kp to 1kp.

Had we played the last turn (ran out of time), I would have gained 2 more KP, but he would have likely gained one more - his victory was assured.

Fun game, at least.

(I'm an Ork player, for those instersted).

**Cilithan**

Nivoglibina wrote:I fielded a similar to Reecius' footdar list last week, I was nearly tabled in turn 3 against Necrons. This must mean the OP is right, the alternative is too depressing to think about.

My Necron are just THAT overpowered Nivo!

Either that or you suck...

Take your pick

On topic: Trollin and Hatin indeed. Obviously Reece's list has the tools to take on various types of opposing lists and Reece is very experienced with it. So he wins games. Sounds logical to me. Theres not much more to 40k folks... A few years back Blackmoor proved that even with a seemingly counter-intuative (also Footdar) list, a skilled general can achieve good results. The same has been proven once more last Adepticon by Reece, Bill Kim and Alex Fennel amongst others. Good for them! There are more ways than 1 to play any given codex, get creative and get experienced...

Cilithan

**Hulksmash**

Pure gold.....

I'm serious

**Zid**

Footdar is a great list, and with a skilled general, it beats face. Just like any list, its not 100% the list that wins, its 75% generalship, 10% knowing what your up against, and 15% bringing all the right guns to a gunfight.

If anyone hasn't went through and read up on some of the reps from adepticon, I highly encourage it. Many games came down to one dice roll, thats how closely played they were. Adepticon was all about good generals.

**DarknessEternal**

I'll avoid the "are they always bad" topic and comment on a related one.

Footdar are always bad at about 1500 points or fewer. They simply cannot afford all the supplemental units required to make them work as well as pick up non-trivial Troops at those points.

**Platuan4th**

Hulksmash wrote:Pure gold.....

I'm serious

Past and present DD2 know what's what.

**racta**

This thread makes me pelvic thrust.

**winterman**

The only thing this thread needs is mauleed and JTS to show up and start arguing about whether Tau suck or not.

High five. Dakka is still fun every once in awhile.

**TedNugent**

Yeah, the downside of probabilities is that just like as the number of games played increase they approach the mean, the fewer the games the more oddball results you can have.

Potentially anything can curbstomp the flavor of the month, it's just a matter of dice rolls.

Another reason why mathhammer > anecdotes

**Freman Bloodglaive**

I suppose the short answer to the question is yes, foot Eldar are bad, but if a general is willing to commit the time and effort they can be competitive.

**d-usa**

Are Foot-dar bad?

No.

Are Foot-dar a list that anybody can just pick up, slam on the table, and win games with?

No.

I think people are confusing "Is this army good/bad" with "is this army easy/hard"...

**ninja13**

You guys make me laugh. I had a player who played a hybrid eldar list. About 5 vehicles(2 wave serpents and 3 war walkers) In all of his lists maybe add a fire prism. But he used his guardians and eldrad to their fullest. Knew exactly when to pull one of the wave serpents out of hiding dump their fire dragon load and blow a vehicle up. He knew when to jump his howling banshees out and kill a whole unit. He was just good and looked for opportunities. Yes he could of been more competitive by using a more recent army but he lost a whole game over 4 years going to the club every Sunday and having 2 games a day. He didn't build a killer list every time either. He made a new list every game.

Moral of the story; It isn't all about the army you take. It's about how well you know your army.

**gpfunk**

ninja13 wrote:You guys make me laugh. I had a player who played a hybrid eldar list. About 5 vehicles(2 wave serpents and 3 war walkers) In all of his lists maybe add a fire prism. But he used his guardians and eldrad to their fullest. Knew exactly when to pull one of the wave serpents out of hiding dump their fire dragon load and blow a vehicle up. He knew when to jump his howling banshees out and kill a whole unit. He was just good and looked for opportunities. Yes he could of been more competitive by using a more recent army but he lost a whole game over 4 years going to the club every Sunday and having 2 games a day. He didn't build a killer list every time either. He made a new list every game.

Moral of the story; It isn't all about the army you take. It's about how well you know your army.

Alright kids, story's over. Time for bed. Night thread!

**jy2**

Footdar is neither good nor bad. Rather, it is the general behind it that determines its success. Built properly, footdar has all the tools to deal with almost any other army out there. The trick is in knowing how to use them properly and in understanding its strengths and limitations. Less experienced players will have a tougher time with them, but shrewd generals like Reece or Blackmoor can really milk them for all they're worth. Footdar is not an easy build to play. Then again, neither are tyranids and tau, but people who really knows how to run them can still achieve success with them.

Despite all this though, footdar does have 2 advantages going for it. First is that it is not a common tournament build. Thus, a lot of people in tournament play sometimes either under-estimate them or are over-cautious when playing against them. Secondly, footdar is an anti-meta army. The current meta in tournament play nowadays are mech. Thusly, most people design their lists more geared towards fighting mech. Well, when those builds come up against footdar, then they will not be operating at 100% efficiency. Add a good general to the mix and honestly, it is not surprising to see that people can do well with them in competitive play.

**whitedragon**

gpfunk wrote:Alright kids, story's over. Time for bed. Night thread!

Don't stifle the conversation, this thread's got lots of life left!

**DarknessEternal**

ninja13 wrote:Knew exactly when to pull one of the wave serpents out of hiding dump their fire dragon load and blow a vehicle up. He knew when to jump his howling banshees out and kill a whole unit

In a world designed to kill transports, why were people letting his 2, and only 2, live past the first turn?

**G00fySmiley**

DarknessEternal wrote:
ninja13 wrote:Knew exactly when to pull one of the wave serpents out of hiding dump their fire dragon load and blow a vehicle up. He knew when to jump his howling banshees out and kill a whole unit

In a world designed to kill transports, why were people letting his 2, and only 2, live past the first turn?

where I play the owner of the store is really cool, he keeps buying more and more terrain for the tables, we have so many bunkers/buildings/ruins I bet I could get a few wave serpants out of los of anything on the table, maybe their local shop does large terrain to (usually 30-40% terrain coverage in the tallahassee fl meta)