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More
Dark Angels and Their Successors
Raven Guard Successors *And raven guard
Imperial Fists Successors *And Imperial Fists

Less
Grey Knights
Ultramarines
Space Wolves

Want:
- The Space Wolves getting wiped out by the Thousand Sons
- More of ADB writing about the Imperium
- Black Templars

Get rid of:
- Incompetence in the Imperium
- OMGZ THE IMPERIUM IZ DOOOOMED!!!!!1!
- The Tau

+Traitor Legions
+Xenos
+Imperial Intricacies, Politics and Infighting

-Loyalist Space Marine Invulnerability
-Chaos Failure
-Draigo

LoneLictor wrote:+Traitor Legions
+Xenos
+Imperial Intricacies, Politics and Infighting

-Loyalist Space Marine Invulnerability
-Chaos Failure
-Draigo

Loyalist space marine Invulnerability?
So you call the Battle of Istavaan III and the Massacre of Istavan invunlerability?
Mate Read the Alpha Legion lore. The Alpha Legion has destroyed four entire chapters by themselves in the past 100 years.
PLus I agree with Draigo.
Traitor Legions

Coolyo
Space Wolves are awesome!

Asherian Command wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:+Traitor Legions
+Xenos
+Imperial Intricacies, Politics and Infighting

-Loyalist Space Marine Invulnerability
-Chaos Failure
-Draigo

Loyalist space marine Invulnerability?
So you call the Battle of Istavaan III and the Massacre of Istavan invunlerability?
Mate Read the Alpha Legion lore. The Alpha Legion has destroyed four entire chapters by themselves in the past 100 years.
PLus I agree with Draigo.
Traitor Legions

Coolyo
Space Wolves are awesome!

I'm not talking about in Black Library. I'm talking about in the Codices.

Yeah the Loyalist Space Marines are often extremely boring as LL points out.

Beaviz81 wrote:Yeah the Loyalist Space Marines are often extremely boring as LL points out.

Have you read some of the lore about the Tyranid invasions? Loyalist died alot during them.

Asherian Command wrote:

Beaviz81 wrote:Yeah the Loyalist Space Marines are often extremely boring as LL points out.

Have you read some of the lore about the Tyranid invasions? Loyalist died alot during them.

Sorry, I don't care for getting ulcers.

Asherian Command wrote:

Beaviz81 wrote:Yeah the Loyalist Space Marines are often extremely boring as LL points out.

Have you read some of the lore about the Tyranid invasions? Loyalist died alot during them.

Yes and really? I am sure none here are aware of that.


More :
DKoK goodness
More Iron Hands fluff/ history
Let Abbadon acctualy pull of a win. The man is very good at what he dose

Less :
Chaos stupidity
Star child or whatever the next version the Emperor is called
Poorly made fluff

Beaviz81 wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

Beaviz81 wrote:Yeah the Loyalist Space Marines are often extremely boring as LL points out.

Have you read some of the lore about the Tyranid invasions? Loyalist died alot during them.

Sorry, I don't care for getting ulcers.

Read Scythes of the emperor, Lamenters, Leviathan, and the several chapters that were decimated. Ha. Invulnerability. My bum.

I prefer to survive, not getting ulcers.

More
1. Inquisitor Obi-Wan Sherlock Clousseau
2. Space Marines, both evil and just-as-evil
3. 'pun-intended'-namings

Less
1. Star Trek (a.k.a. Xenos)
2. Humordeprived pseudo-historicism
3. Phil Kelly

+ Tau Empire's additional races, becoming a true coalition of several races, specially if its forced upon (grim-er, dark-er Tau).
+ Taking Ork's a little more serious as a threat (I liked the DoW-2 portrayal of them as more beastly), do note that this isn't mutually exclusive of them being funny/silly.
+ Radical / Borderline Radical Imperium orgs, be them Inquisition, Marines (like Wolves) or Ad-Mech

- Newcrons, simply didn't like the change.
- Flexible power scales, Poor Avatar always gets punched to death when he's supposed to be a demi-god.
- Goody goody Marines, if they don't have something beneath the surface don't bother, Ultramarines get boring because of this.

+ More eventful Campaigns: The Dark Crusade, Eye of Terror, and Medusa V were lax and created nothing from their outcomes.
+ More Xenos. Period.
+ More Planetary Governorships and PDF Forces.

- Space Marines
- Space Marines
- Space Marines...

Asherian Command wrote:

Beaviz81 wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

Beaviz81 wrote:Yeah the Loyalist Space Marines are often extremely boring as LL points out.

Have you read some of the lore about the Tyranid invasions? Loyalist died alot during them.

Sorry, I don't care for getting ulcers.

Read Scythes of the emperor, Lamenters, Leviathan, and the several chapters that were decimated. Ha. Invulnerability. My bum.

The Space Marines still won you dummy. That was what I meant. The Space Marines always win. They always defeat the Black Crusades and the Waaghs! and the Hive Fleets. Whenever Space Marines enter any important battle, you can always tell who'll win. I'll give you a hint; the Space Marines.

More:

Inquisition. Power games in the shadows, operatives working outside the laws with no trust for each other, unsung heroes. Less of the weedy 25pt GK HQs tacked on as an afterthought, more Eisenhorn-like stories centering on the Inquisition itself. And a more balanced portrayal in the video games, too, Inquisitors in Space Marine and Retribution are backstabbing sneaks with no restraint. Let's see Inquisitors complaining about the Space Marines' unsubtle tendency to smash things first and ask questions later instead.

Eldar. Yes, we got a couple of novels, but all we've seen is a small slice of the culture of Alaitoc, the strict communist utopia-place that preserves itself by throwing out anyone who isn't committed to the Path. Let's see other places, last survivors of a dying world on Iyanden, Wild Riders chasing each other through the spires of Saim-Hann, midnight meetings between Ulthwe Farseers and humans who have no idea how important the smallest gesture might be, proud warriors of Biel-Tan striking out to recreate the Empire of the Eldar. More variety, encourage people to think of the Eldar as more complex than merely 'Eldar'.

Internal politics and treachery in various factions. Nobody's perfect, nobody always agrees with each other. What happens when two Space Marine Chapters get in an argument? When Farseers of two Craftworlds make conflicting prophecies? When two Inquisitors suspect each other of Chaos influence, or when one side has fallen and is trying to deflect suspicion? Give us more interaction, more characters, more dialogue, subtlety, less bug war/straight no-talking action sequences. I realize this may be the wrong game to ask for depth, but Dan Abnett managed it in Eisenhorn and Ravenor, I think a bit more in that style starring more of the universe would be plausible.


Less:

Brainless action sequences. Heroic Ultramarines land on a Tyranid-infested planet and spend the entire story yelling with their bolters on full-auto. Yawn. Heroic Guardsmen hold the line against impossible hordes of daemons and Chaos cultists against all odds. Snore. Orks charge screaming onto yet another battlefield and are barely repulsed by a ragtag remnant/rearguard. Haven't we heard this story before? Give us something where we can't guess the entire plot and every twist from the first chapter.

Ultramarines. Let's face it, there's only so much you can do with straight-laced heroic knights-in-shining-power-armor. They're boring, they lack depth, interesting qualities, conflict...Let's see some of the more interesting Space Marine Chapters get center-stage for a while. People who don't think light shone out of Robute Gulliman's ass and who tore up the Codex Astartes the instant it was passed to them; Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Black Templars, the like.

Regular Imperial Guard. This is supposed to be science bloody fiction, not World War I with laser guns. We don't need to hear more stories about the guys in the trenches holding the line, we want the exciting stuff. The special operations, aerial insertions, low-altitude bombing runs...Fewer trenches, fewer mortars, less artillery, let's see more airplanes and Stormtroopers.

WANT:

More imperial characters outside the IG and Marines. I want to see more crazy ideas: cyber-modified cooks with spatchulas for hands and bio-engineered tastebuds, a TV spokesman breed for charisma and credibility, worlds where everything is made of wood because the high magnetic field builds up a static charge too quickly.

More bizzare xenos. Not funny looking humanoids with guns, give us crystaline snowflakes flying through space, 3 miles wide and with the power of a small star. Telepathic squids flying by eimiting methane gas. It's been 10 years since Abnett's Einhorn books and I can't think of any interesting new Xenos since then.

Stories with more scope - Don't spend 500 pages on a battle, spend 500 pages telling 300 years of a family's generational saga, or an Imperial General's whole life story.

DON'T WANT:

Marines, it's been a long time since I read a marine book that was even vaguely good. Even Abnet couldn't breath life into them.

20+ book series: Tell a story in one book and let it be. Not everything warrents dozens of sequels.

Plot armor - I should not be able to tell who wins and who lives by glancing at the cover. Everyone should be at risk at all times (nasty look at Dan Abnett).

Also more wants

More ork stories, the Orks have a very interesting viewpoint of things through 40k and I cannot get enough of their stuff.
A book on the Octarius war
More three or more way conflicts (this is 40k, wars with merely two sides are for other settings.)

Less of
The Imperium in general
Orks being portrayed as stupid (they're not, they're just more direct and don't care for the more refined things, but otherwise they're equal to humans.)
Such silliness as 6000 CSMs having the upper hand against billions of guardsmen, even with the aid of hundreds of thousands of daemons and millions of cultists and a dozen titans. (Otherwise though, the Word Bearer's series was great.)

More Imperial Navy based fluff.
More focus on the IG as a competent military force.
More character for space marines.

Less focus on the IG as an incompetent military force.
Less PDF and IG being cannon fodder for marines who then wipe out the enemy.
Less matt ward

Emperors Children restored to their status as the greatest villains of warhammer 40k characterized by both sadism and fabius's nazi like desire to create "New Men".

More Phil Kelly, less Matt Ward.

Omegus wrote:More Phil Kelly, less Matt Ward.

Yea more space wolves riding wolves firing wolfguns and yell wolf howls as they hit people with their wolf swords... Wolf. Kelly can be just as crappy as ward. However at least he only has one bad codes to wards 2-3.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Plot armor - I should not be able to tell who wins and who lives by glancing at the cover. Everyone should be at risk at all times (nasty look at Dan Abnett).

Wait, wait, wait... of all the people and all the instances for this issue, and you single out Abnett? One of the better (if not best) 40K writers?

You crazy!?!?

Less World War 1
More Science Fiction

... Actually, that's pretty much it. Well, that and Scatter/DS rules that don't blow.

Anfauglir wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Plot armor - I should not be able to tell who wins and who lives by glancing at the cover. Everyone should be at risk at all times (nasty look at Dan Abnett).

Wait, wait, wait... of all the people and all the instances for this issue, and you single out Abnett? One of the better (if not best) 40K writers?

You crazy!?!?

Actually yes, Abnett utilizes enormous amounts of plot armour in the gaunt's ghost series. You can always tell that the core of Gaunt, Rawne, and Criid will survive until the end of time. Oh and one tactical squad of Space marines taking out hundreds of Dark Eldar and three slaughtering hundreds of Loxatl, if that's not plot armour I don't know what is.

Kain wrote:

Anfauglir wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Plot armor - I should not be able to tell who wins and who lives by glancing at the cover. Everyone should be at risk at all times (nasty look at Dan Abnett).

Wait, wait, wait... of all the people and all the instances for this issue, and you single out Abnett? One of the better (if not best) 40K writers?

You crazy!?!?

Actually yes, Abnett utilizes enormous amounts of plot armour in the gaunt's ghost series. You can always tell that the core of Gaunt, Rawne, and Criid will survive until the end of time. Oh and one tactical squad of Space marines taking out hundreds of Dark Eldar and three slaughtering hundreds of Loxatl, if that's not plot armour I don't know what is.

I always felt that anyone could die in the gaunts ghosts series. He has killed off a lot of major characters who should have had major plot armor in any other book. I mean when the guy died in the guns if tanith, or how about the guy dieing in sabbot martyr, or even the guy dieing in the armor of contempt. You shoukd know who I refer to if you read them, and if you haven't I didn't spoil anything.

+More Flesh Tearers fluff and rules
+More fluff about Eldar Exarchs
+More common ground between Imperial Forces

-Overglorified Guard leaders
-Ultramarines
-Overglorified SM leaders

More:

-Sisters of Battle, Imperial Guard point's of view and stories.
-Fluff about Old Ones, Necrontyr, Eldar, pre-Imperial Human colonies, Tau societies and their way of life.
-Fluff and info about certain Chapeter/Legions ( White Scars and Salamanders notably ).

Less:

-Ultramarines fluff ( the only thing we don't know is what they are dreaming ).
-Imperium and Mankind are on brink of defeat and doomed stuff.
-Some really stupid and not logical events and peopel liek Draigo, Bloodtide, Tau victory on Taros, Trayzn, Necron ligthbulb show etc....

Kain wrote:Actually yes, Abnett utilizes enormous amounts of plot armour in the gaunt's ghost series. You can always tell that the core of Gaunt, Rawne, and Criid will survive until the end of time.

But, this is the case for any work of fiction... ever. You buy a novel that has a character and the character's name on the front cover, and lo, he doesn't die in the first act! It turns out that the entire story is about them - amazing! There's no case, whatsoever, for singling out Abnett and Gaunt's Ghosts for this issue. None.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:I always felt that anyone could die in the gaunts ghosts series. He has killed off a lot of major characters who should have had major plot armor in any other book. I mean when the guy died in the guns if tanith, or how about the guy dieing in sabbot martyr, or even the guy dieing in the armor of contempt. You shoukd know who I refer to if you read them, and if you haven't I didn't spoil anything.

^ Exactly. Plot armour is just one of those things in fiction. It exists because it has to, otherwise they'd be no story to tell. The difference is whether or not the author can disguise this fact well enough to hit that balance between creating tension and developing sustained investment in character. Abnett, on the whole, does very well in this department. There are far, far worse offenders in 40K fiction alone!

More:

Non-Imperial Humans.
Ork Fluff
Fluff written from a non-imperial perspective
Xenos fluff that makes the Xenos actually look good. (yeah, i know that's four, but i don't care..)

Less:

Wardisms
Bolter-Porn
IOM plot armour (some factions really need a little plot armour, but the IOM isn't one of them )
Nonsensical Fluff retcons :( (four for balance..)