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Twiqbal wrote:csm themselves are jokes.

they're a bunch of millenia-old ultimate warriors who can't set aside ego for 10 minutes to trounce sm that are barely a couple-hundred years old.

if the world eaters could unite for 20 minutes they''d take out entire chapters.

but no...can't have anything actually interesting occur in the gameworld

Angron and 50000 berzerkers conquered three dozen star systems in the 38th millennium. Took the Imperium 700 years to regain control of 90% of the systems.
Pg: 36 of the current CSM codex

htj wrote:I've often considered that maybe Abaddon's purpose is the crusades themselves. That is to say, create these massive, brutal wars for the purposes of heightening the emotions to extreme degrees of those who fight in them, so that the Chaos gods might feed on these souls in a heightened state of passion. Perhaps this is all a way to breed something terrible, some greater Daemons of as of yet unseen power levels. Just a thought.

This, this and more this! I see Abaddon's purpose as just this. Stir up, cause the humans to have increased emotions, which feed the gods of chaos themselves, rinse and repeat.

SonofTerra wrote:

htj wrote:I've often considered that maybe Abaddon's purpose is the crusades themselves. That is to say, create these massive, brutal wars for the purposes of heightening the emotions to extreme degrees of those who fight in them, so that the Chaos gods might feed on these souls in a heightened state of passion. Perhaps this is all a way to breed something terrible, some greater Daemons of as of yet unseen power levels. Just a thought.

This, this and more this! I see Abaddon's purpose as just this. Stir up, cause the humans to have increased emotions, which feed the gods of chaos themselves, rinse and repeat.

Wouldn't it just cause increased desperation and zealotry in humanity causing more worship for the Emperor as the situation becomes more desperate...

Failbaddon fails because his arms fell off.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:The campaign was hard-fought and senior Games Workshop executives have commented that the events of the campaign will provide a foundation for the rich background lore of the Warhammer 40,000 universe for years to come.

He said with a straight face.

pretre wrote:Wait, Chaos won the Heresy?

Read Legion.

You make it sound so cut and dry...

Because Alpha Legion could never be tricked by something called Chaos...

The simple answer is that GW - specifically Andy Chambers - made a very poor dramatic decision back in 1996, when they introduced Abaddon - supposedly the Imperium's nemesis - as a man who had already failed eleven times in his self-appointed task. His credibility as an arch-villain was, from the very outset,doomed.

Frankly, it's time for a retcon...

I do kinda hope that in the next book, Abbadon does something which causes things to rise. Chaos as a whole has been depressing in the greater canon. If it hasn't been for FFG Chaos would be under the nids, and the old (C'tan led) necrons.

At the end of the day the only reason Abaddon has failed is because GW know full well that if the Space Marines fail at keeping him out of Terra, you are going to have an epic group cry and whine so loud, players will want a new story written in that allows the SM to wreck face and kick some ass like ALWAYS do.

So the circle of life continues to revolve. SM losing a few battles her and there but never losing the war.

And we remain in the stagnant world of 40k where writers are so handicapped in creativity that nothing exciting ever happens.

40k has been boring of late guys whats next? How about we do another crusade? 14 I think that would make? Sounds good write it up. It will be so epic compared to the other 13, our fans will love the uniqueness of this crusade!

ugh

Surprised no one has posted the REAL reason why Failbaddon has never truly won a crusade.

The dude has no arms!

/joking time. You really think GW would advance the story at this point? And anything beating the imperium is madness, so we know that isn't happening. As much as I'd love to see the Imperium on the offensive of Abbadon breaking through the cadian gate, I don't think we'll ever see it...

Cryonicleech wrote:We're all aware of the reason WHY Abaddon hasn't succeeded so far... right?

I mean, seriously, it's not some ridiculous secret right? Because here, and on the internet in general, I think people might not be getting it.

If Abaddon reached Terra, the universe would be drastically different and would alter the setting to a point where the Imperium couldn't exist.

Abaddon isn't some silly massive failure. GW CAN'T let him win, because if he does, there's no Imperium. If there's no Imperium, the setting is screwed. It's the same reason that Storm of Chaos and Eye of Terror had their fluff retconned. Because the change in the setting would be so massive that it would make armies in the setting unsustainable.

Don't get me wrong, I love the failaddon jokes, they're funny as hell, but I want to make sure we all know the reasons behind "13" Black Crusades. It's certainly not due to a lack of effort...

The "real" reason why Abaddon hasn't beaten down the Imperium is because hes a fictional character in a fictional universe. Saying that he hasn't won because he's been written to lose is like saying that an evil villain in a story isn't really evil, the writer just wrote him that way. It's redundant. If the GW writers want Abaddon to be a loser who will never beat the Imperium then that's what he is.

But realistically he'll never succeed. He's out-gunned by the Imperium a million to one and despite the many claims people have made on this site that the Chaos Gods can "magically" create new weapons, armor and personnel for him, I've never seen any actual instances to support that assertion.

So, Abaddon has less manpower, less united forces (As the Night Lords novels showed us, even chaos marines who are united under Abaddon's banner still fight amongst themselves and have their own allegiances), less ships and less equipment. The only way he'll ever reach Terra is if the Imperium gets its ass handed to it by the Tyranids.

purplefood wrote:

SonofTerra wrote:

htj wrote:I've often considered that maybe Abaddon's purpose is the crusades themselves. That is to say, create these massive, brutal wars for the purposes of heightening the emotions to extreme degrees of those who fight in them, so that the Chaos gods might feed on these souls in a heightened state of passion. Perhaps this is all a way to breed something terrible, some greater Daemons of as of yet unseen power levels. Just a thought.

This, this and more this! I see Abaddon's purpose as just this. Stir up, cause the humans to have increased emotions, which feed the gods of chaos themselves, rinse and repeat.

Wouldn't it just cause increased desperation and zealotry in humanity causing more worship for the Emperor as the situation becomes more desperate...

It might, but what if all that worship serves no purpose? The Emperor himself tried to forbid worship of himself. Perhaps that's because he knew something that meant it was a bad idea. Perhaps all that worship and fervour is going no-where, or else somewhere unintended. Also, it may well be that for every Imperial fanatic it creates, it forments ten times the bloodlust, despair, intrigue, pride, and so forth. So the benefits outweigh the detriment.

Iracundus wrote:There seems to be a lot of misinformation or inaccurate information floating around about the 13th Black Crusade, and wiki entries are certainly not a good reliable source of information.

I have posted results from the Andy Chambers WD wrap up article about the 13th Black Crusade below, unedited:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/392010.page

Also there is the relevant part in the Apocalypse rulebook showing Abaddon leading the 13th Black Crusade in the Thesus sector, with a once more functional Planetkiller ship. The Thesus sector was not among the sectors fought over and was not part of the Cadian Gate sectors. Therefore, the only conclusion is that at least Abaddon's personal forces have moved beyond the Gate.

I know it's OT, but thank you for posting this! It was a really interesting read

Cryonicleech wrote:We're all aware of the reason WHY Abaddon hasn't succeeded so far... right?

I mean, seriously, it's not some ridiculous secret right? Because here, and on the internet in general, I think people might not be getting it.

If Abaddon reached Terra, the universe would be drastically different and would alter the setting to a point where the Imperium couldn't exist.

Abaddon isn't some silly massive failure. GW CAN'T let him win, because if he does, there's no Imperium. If there's no Imperium, the setting is screwed. It's the same reason that Storm of Chaos and Eye of Terror had their fluff retconned. Because the change in the setting would be so massive that it would make armies in the setting unsustainable.

Don't get me wrong, I love the failaddon jokes, they're funny as hell, but I want to make sure we all know the reasons behind "13" Black Crusades. It's certainly not due to a lack of effort...

Storm of Chaos was pretty much the opposite of the eye of terror campaign. If GW went with what actually happened, Archaon would have been noted as marching out of the wastelands and then getting roflstomped twenty miles in. Additionally, a lot of the jokes made at Abaddon's expense are made because supposedly more minor individuals seem to have accomplished more with fewer resources and he's generally overshadowed by the Tyranids in threat level. Of course in 5th ed, much like Chaos and the Eldar, all the Tyranids ever did was get slaughtered left right and centre in the most painfully embarrassing ways possible.

Abbadon hasn't won for one reason only

Every time he gets out of any form of transportation his arms have fallen off.

Daedricbob wrote:Abbadon hasn't won for one reason only

Every time he gets out of any form of transportation his arms have fallen off.

Okay I'm getting a bit curious about this, and a bit annoyed, what the did this weird thing with his arms come from?

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Daedricbob wrote:Abbadon hasn't won for one reason only

Every time he gets out of any form of transportation his arms have fallen off.

Okay I'm getting a bit curious about this, and a bit annoyed, what the did this weird thing with his arms come from?

Creed used his tactical Genius to outflank Abaddon and steal his arms.


Srs.


It's because the model's arms fall off a lot.

Iur_tae_mont wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Daedricbob wrote:Abbadon hasn't won for one reason only

Every time he gets out of any form of transportation his arms have fallen off.

Okay I'm getting a bit curious about this, and a bit annoyed, what the did this weird thing with his arms come from?

Creed used his tactical Genius to outflank Abaddon and steal his arms.


Srs.


It's because the model's arms fall off a lot.

Oh, I never had an Abbadon model before, so I didn't know that.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Iur_tae_mont wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Daedricbob wrote:Abbadon hasn't won for one reason only

Every time he gets out of any form of transportation his arms have fallen off.

Okay I'm getting a bit curious about this, and a bit annoyed, what the did this weird thing with his arms come from?

Creed used his tactical Genius to outflank Abaddon and steal his arms.


Srs.


It's because the model's arms fall off a lot.

Oh, I never had an Abbadon model before, so I didn't know that.

And by a lot we mean "putting it on the table was often enough force to cause them to fall off." The finecast fixes this problem mostly...so I guess it did some good after all.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Daedricbob wrote:Abbadon hasn't won for one reason only

Every time he gets out of any form of transportation his arms have fallen off.

Okay I'm getting a bit curious about this, and a bit annoyed, what the did this weird thing with his arms come from?

The gods took his arms as punishment for his many failures.

Supposedly 6th edition is going to make chaos the big bads again and make the setting feel like chaos is the biggest threat to the imperium. I would imagine if they did this, abaddon would be the first place to start "improving"

Iur_tae_mont wrote:
It's because the model's arms fall off a lot.

I've owned his model since 2nd and I've never seen this happen to mine OR anyone else's.


EVER.

If they fall off, it's because you don't know how to assemble metal models properly.

purplefood wrote:

SonofTerra wrote:

htj wrote:I've often considered that maybe Abaddon's purpose is the crusades themselves. That is to say, create these massive, brutal wars for the purposes of heightening the emotions to extreme degrees of those who fight in them, so that the Chaos gods might feed on these souls in a heightened state of passion. Perhaps this is all a way to breed something terrible, some greater Daemons of as of yet unseen power levels. Just a thought.

This, this and more this! I see Abaddon's purpose as just this. Stir up, cause the humans to have increased emotions, which feed the gods of chaos themselves, rinse and repeat.

Wouldn't it just cause increased desperation and zealotry in humanity causing more worship for the Emperor as the situation becomes more desperate...

Yes...and the extra zealotry will result in more bloodshed. Khorne likes bloodshed. It makes him happy.

pretre wrote:Wait, Chaos won the Heresy?

Absolutely. Chaos got exactly what it wanted out of the Heresy.

Humanity became the perfect and self-perpetuating tool for empowering Chaos. Also, the only force in history that concerned them as being able to make them go away (The Emperor) got locked into basically stasis. He won't be able to reincarnate; he won't be able to enact his "no more Chaos" plan they were so worried about; he's effectively removed the only way that could permanent remove him.

Chaos won the Heresy and empowering Chaos Space Marines any more might make things worse for it.

Sephyr wrote:You do know it would have been an entirely different game if they did that differently, right?

Yep. Just pointing out that Chaos failures are not new to the Abaddon era, so folks shouldn't be surprised by it...

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Iur_tae_mont wrote:It's because the model's arms fall off a lot.

Interesting...I've had an Abaddon model pretty much from the beginning and have yet to have his arms ever fall off...He is one of my general figures so gets a lot of use. I've never actually played him as Abaddon, though...

Skriker

Reading this thread makes Abaddon seem like Skeletor

Skeletor didn't have a boss at all, let alone a boss that insisted he was a failure.

Abaddon is more like Pizza Hut or a Uwe Boll movie. He's basically a tax write off for Chaos as long as he's a failure.

BlaxicanX wrote:The "real" reason why Abaddon hasn't beaten down the Imperium is because hes a fictional character in a fictional universe. Saying that he hasn't won because he's been written to lose is like saying that an evil villain in a story isn't really evil, the writer just wrote him that way. It's redundant. If the GW writers want Abaddon to be a loser who will never beat the Imperium then that's what he is.

But realistically he'll never succeed. He's out-gunned by the Imperium a million to one and despite the many claims people have made on this site that the Chaos Gods can "magically" create new weapons, armor and personnel for him, I've never seen any actual instances to support that assertion.

So, Abaddon has less manpower, less united forces (As the Night Lords novels showed us, even chaos marines who are united under Abaddon's banner still fight amongst themselves and have their own allegiances), less ships and less equipment. The only way he'll ever reach Terra is if the Imperium gets its ass handed to it by the Tyranids.

One of Tzeench's lieutenants actually did come up with a way to create arms/armor/ships out of thin air.....but they dissolved after only a few hours.

On the realistic side (as realistic as the universe can get) the only reason the IoM hasn't fully conquered the galaxy is there are just too many threats to face at once. If it was just Chaos, or just the Orks, etc, they would have been destroyed after a few thousand years and humanity would own everything. But its not the IoM vs Chaos, its IoM vs Tau/Eldar/DE/Orks/Chaos/Necrons/Nids. While a totalitarian theocratic regime is not the nicest government to have, it is definately the best for Getting S**t Done, and the sheer numbers of humanities armies are easily enough to overwhelm any single enemy race in the setting. Even the Nids, if the IoM could mass their ENTIRE strength to face them, would probably be held at the galaxy's edge.

Its just numbers. A million worlds, average population say 15 billion per world, equals 15 quadrillion Imperial citizens. Have 1% be in the armed forces, thats an army/navy of 150 trillion. Add in the relatively paltry million space marines, titan legions, and the material backing of the forge worlds.....