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2012/05/31 18:34:18
Subject: Re:Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
Grakmar wrote:I'm fairly impressed, Off-Topicers. We're almost a page in and this hasn't devolved into an argument over religion.
This person is absolutely evil and his views are hateful. And, that's something Christians, Atheists, Jews, Buddhists, and everyone else can all come together and agree on.
That's because this thread isn't about religion. This thread is about hate. Religion factors into this about as much as the postal system would if it was a mailman who had made these statements.
Excellent post, I agree. I personally feel Religion isn't what makes nuts, nuts. It's just another thing to "focus" them, or give them excuses.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
2012/05/31 18:34:43
Subject: Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2012/05/31 18:36:17
Subject: Re:Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
2012/05/31 18:36:34
Subject: Re:Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
streamdragon wrote:Getting slow there Frazz. Wiener dogs underfoot?
In completely unrelated news, I'm waiting to hear back on adopting a great dane / english mastiff mix.
Translation: streamdragon wants to adopt a bear that barks.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2012/05/31 21:11:49
Subject: Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
2012/05/31 21:15:39
Subject: Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
deathholydeath wrote:Aw, I really want a Mongolian Mastiff. I want a dog I can ride like a horse!
In Mongolia, Mastiff rides you!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2012/05/31 23:01:44
Subject: Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/05/31 23:07:01
Subject: Re:Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
The Stonewall riots were a series of spontaneous, violent demonstrations against a police raid that took place in the early morning hours of June 28, 1969, at the Stonewall Inn, in the Greenwich Village neighborhood of New York City. They are frequently cited as the first instance in American history when people in the homosexual community fought back against a government-sponsored system that persecuted sexual minorities, and they have become the defining event that marked the start of the gay rights movement in the United States and around the world.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
2012/05/31 23:17:40
Subject: Re:Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
“Terrorists are dangerous, the economy is a real and present danger,” Pastor Curtis Knapp told his congregation on Sunday. “But there is simply nothing other than the holocaust of the unborn which imperils the safety of our country or places our people in jeopardy as does the leader of the Western world publicly raising his fist at the heavens and declaring that the bedrock institution of society, ordained of God and meant to be protected by the state, is little more than a convention of convenience with the children of Sodom to transform the meaning of something, which is precious to Jesus Christ, and a living picture of his love for the church into a legally protected justification for perversion and a vehicle of hatred aimed directly at that love.”
Pick a point already! Terrorists, economy... abortion... gay men? It's like a sentence that wavers through 4-5 different ideas and tries to link them all to one another.
"We should kill them homos because of terorrism! And our dangerous economy!!!"
What?
But I like the idea of a goverment sponsored execution program... simply because the idea of a so-called Christian supporting such a thing is hilarious (ly awful).
What a nutbar.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/31 23:49:41
“You say, ‘Oh, I can’t believe you, you’re horrible. You’re a backwards neanderthal of a person.’ Is that what you’re calling scripture? Is God a neanderthal, backwards in his morality? Is it His word or not? If it’s His word, he commanded it. It’s His idea, not mine. And I’m not ashamed of it.”
Sure. I'm more than willing to say Scripture is backwards and primitive. It's stories that people who lived 1000s of years ago came up with to cope with their short lives, a scary world, and natural forces they couldn't possibly comprehend. It's a tool for dealing with their own frailty and lack of power, a way to find meaning in their tiny human existence. I guess it's still nice for that in some ways. However it certainly is a relic and one I think we'll outgrow eventually. It'd be nice if dicks stopped using to be cruel to people, and just stuck to the whole community building aspect in the meantime though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/01 01:23:57
2012/06/01 01:28:56
Subject: Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
Well good to see the prediction about page 2 was correct.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2012/06/01 01:55:19
Subject: Re:Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
“You say, ‘Oh, I can’t believe you, you’re horrible. You’re a backwards neanderthal of a person.’ Is that what you’re calling scripture? Is God a neanderthal, backwards in his morality? Is it His word or not? If it’s His word, he commanded it. It’s His idea, not mine. And I’m not ashamed of it.”
Sure. I'm more than willing to say Scripture is backwards and primitive. It's stories that people who lived 1000s of years ago came up with to cope with their short lives, a scary world, and natural forces they couldn't possibly comprehend. It's a tool for dealing with their own frailty and lack of power, a way to find meaning in their tiny human existence. I guess it's still nice for that in some ways. However it certainly is a relic and one I think we'll outgrow eventually. It'd be nice if dicks stopped using to be cruel to people, and just stuck to the whole community building aspect in the meantime though.
Dude. I'm no friend of religion either, but seriously. You broke the magic. This isn't about religion. This is about hate. This guy is just trollface wearing preacher's robes.
“You say, ‘Oh, I can’t believe you, you’re horrible. You’re a backwards neanderthal of a person.’ Is that what you’re calling scripture? Is God a neanderthal, backwards in his morality? Is it His word or not? If it’s His word, he commanded it. It’s His idea, not mine. And I’m not ashamed of it.”
Sure. I'm more than willing to say Scripture is backwards and primitive. It's stories that people who lived 1000s of years ago came up with to cope with their short lives, a scary world, and natural forces they couldn't possibly comprehend. It's a tool for dealing with their own frailty and lack of power, a way to find meaning in their tiny human existence. I guess it's still nice for that in some ways. However it certainly is a relic and one I think we'll outgrow eventually. It'd be nice if dicks stopped using to be cruel to people, and just stuck to the whole community building aspect in the meantime though.
Dude. I'm no friend of religion either, but seriously. You broke the magic. This isn't about religion. This is about hate. This guy is just trollface wearing preacher's robes.
but it is also about religion, preacher's god tells him gays should be put to death, and he wants to see that happen. he's spreading his hatred to everyone in his church, including the children. Think of the children hearing this nonsense.
Now let say he's actually able to convince some republicans to draft a law for rounding up the gays and killing them, would that guy still just be a trollface in a robe? it would be funny to see the gay republicans who fight against marriage equality and support this bill, get rounded up though because they always seem to be the ones getting caught in bathrooms trolling for some good gay lovin.
But if he is so unchristian, Why isn't he being excommunicated? where are all the true christians coming out and saying he doesn't represent them, that his interpretation of the bible is wrong?
2012/06/01 02:17:14
Subject: Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
Frazzled wrote:Well good to see the prediction about page 2 was correct.
It's a pity, too. Because in the end we could use scripture as a great argument AGAINST homophobia.
Although it so rarely seems to work, but that might just be the internet talking (does ANY form of argument work on the internet?). Still... I kinda like how Mr. Rogers put it in regards to homosexuals: “God loves you just the way you are.”
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/06/01 02:37:38
Subject: Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
Life is like an ocean voyage and our bodies are the ships
And without a moral compass we would all be cast adrift
So to keep us on our bearings, the Lord gave us a gift
And like most gifts you get, it was a book
I only read one book, but it's a good book, don't you know
I act the way I act because the Good Book tells me so
If I wanna known how to be good, it's to the Good Book that I go
'Cos the Good Book is a book and it is good and it's a book
I know the Good Book's good because the Good Book says it's good
I know the Good Book knows it's good because a really good book would
You wouldn't cook without a cookbook and I think it's understood
You can't be good without a Good Book 'cos it's good and it's a book
And it is good for cookin'
I tried to read some other books, but I soon gave up on that
The paragraphs ain't numbered and they complicate the facts
I can't read Harry Potter 'cos they're worshipping false gods and that
And Dumbledore's a poofter and that's bad, 'cos it's not good
Morality is written there in simple white and black
I feel sorry for you heathens, got to think about all that
Good is good and evil's bad and goats are good and pigs are cr*p
You'll find which one is which in the Good Book, 'cos it's good
And it's a book, and it's a book
I had a cat, she gave birth to a litter
The kittens were adorable and they made my family laugh
But as they grew they started misbehavin'
So I drowned the little f**kers in the bath
When the creatures in your care start being menaces
The answers can be found right there in Genesis!
Chapter 6, Verse 5-7!
Swing your partner by the hand
Have a baby if you can
But if the voices your head
Say to sacrifice your kid
To satiate your loving God's
Fetish for dead baby blood
It's simple fate, the Book demands
So raise that knife up in your hand!
Before the Good Book made us good, there was no good way to know
If a thing was good or not that good or kind of touch and go
So God decided he'd give writing allegoric prose a go
And so he wrote a book and it was generally well-received
The Telegraph said, "This God is reminiscent of the Norse."
The Times said, "Kind of turgid, but I liked the bit with horses."
The Mail said, "Lots of massacres, a violent tour de force.
If you only read one book this year, then this one is a book
And it is good, and it's a book!"
Swing your daughter by the hand
But if she gets raped by a man
And refuses then to marry him
Stone her to death!
If you just close your eyes and block your ears
To the accumulated knowledge of the last two thousand years
Then morally, guess what? You're off the hook
And thank Christ you only have to read one book
Just because the book's contents
Were written generations hence
By hairy desert-dwelling gents
Squatting in their dusty tents
Just because what Heaven said
Was said before they'd leavened bread
Just 'cos Jesus couldn't read
Doesn't mean that we should need
When manipulating human genes
To alleviate pain and fight disease
When deciding whether it's wrong or right
To help the dyin' let go of life
Or stop a pregnancy when it's
Just a tiny blastocyst
There's no reason why we should take a look
At any other book
But the Good Book
'Cause it's good
And it's a book
And it's a book
And it's quite good!
Good is good and evil's bad
And kids get killed when God gets mad
And you'd better take a good look
At the Good Book
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
2012/06/01 04:16:20
Subject: Re:Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
“You say, ‘Oh, I can’t believe you, you’re horrible. You’re a backwards neanderthal of a person.’ Is that what you’re calling scripture? Is God a neanderthal, backwards in his morality? Is it His word or not? If it’s His word, he commanded it. It’s His idea, not mine. And I’m not ashamed of it.”
Sure. I'm more than willing to say Scripture is backwards and primitive. It's stories that people who lived 1000s of years ago came up with to cope with their short lives, a scary world, and natural forces they couldn't possibly comprehend. It's a tool for dealing with their own frailty and lack of power, a way to find meaning in their tiny human existence. I guess it's still nice for that in some ways. However it certainly is a relic and one I think we'll outgrow eventually. It'd be nice if dicks stopped using to be cruel to people, and just stuck to the whole community building aspect in the meantime though.
Dude. I'm no friend of religion either, but seriously. You broke the magic. This isn't about religion. This is about hate. This guy is just trollface wearing preacher's robes.
It is about religion, at least a little. The stuff is printed pretty black and white in the bible, I've read it myself. This is hardly the only rather unfortunate stance available in the text. This guy also isn't alone, I mean these attitudes are fairly common here in the US, and religon is used as a justification for them a fair bit. Most of them aren't so extreme as to call for a government extermination program, but the general spirit of it is the same. There are a lot of people out there doing and saying some very nasty things, and they are if not driven by religion, at least use it as a shield.
All that said...
I'd hardly call myself an enemy of religion. Yes I do personally find the idea of the supernatural to be fairly quaint, and just a little bit silly. Yes, I think it's an antiquated (backwards) way to approach the world, given our current understanding of it. Religious or not, people are still going to find ways to be dicks. A lot of folks are driven to positive things by their faith, and it it's useful for building communities. It's not an inherently *bad* thing, even if it is a tad doofy. I'm not going to think all that much less of your average, reasonable religous person.
I just think it would be nice if so long as folks do hang on to these beliefs systems, they used them for the positive things I mentioned rather than be a colossal dick with them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/01 04:17:28
2012/06/01 04:26:39
Subject: Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
“You say, ‘Oh, I can’t believe you, you’re horrible. You’re a backwards neanderthal of a person.’ Is that what you’re calling scripture? Is God a neanderthal, backwards in his morality? Is it His word or not? If it’s His word, he commanded it. It’s His idea, not mine. And I’m not ashamed of it.”
You know what, this guy can be a bigot. feth it, whatever, it shouldn't come as any surprise that there's people out there that like hating on other people for stupid reasons. Fortunately when it comes to this particularly piece of hate, this bigot is part of an ever decreasing minority, so I'm happy to just ignore his stupid gak.
But for feth's sake, this guy's job is to know the bible. And he's there claiming the Bible is the word of God. I'm an atheist with the most basic understanding of the Bible, and I know that the book isn't the direct word of God, which is why it must be studied in context, and interpreted. And even more, I know that after Leviticus we have the story of Peter's vision, in which the old rules are changed, and replaced "God has shown me that I should not call anyone profane or unclean". It's why everyone gets to ignore the bit in Leviticus about eating seashells. It's why Jews no longer prohibit themselves from sharing their households with Gentiles. And it's why Christianity moved past thinking of any of the stuff in Leviticus as absolute, unquestionable rules.
This guy's job is to know the Bible, much like it's a bus driver's job to know how to drive a bus. Is it too much to ask people, bigots or not, to just be halfway decent at their chosen professions?
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2012/06/01 04:27:15
Subject: Re:Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
Chongara wrote:The stuff is printed pretty black and white in the bible
Not in the original text, no, if you're referring to homosexuality.
But modern bibles are quite far removed from the original text.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/06/01 04:29:08
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/06/01 04:34:21
Subject: Re:Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
Kovnik Obama wrote:That this happened barely more than 40 years ago seriously saddens me...
40 years ago? 40 years ago here in Australia we'd only just given aboriginals the vote*. Nostalgia makes us think otherwise, but 40 years ago was a whole other place when it comes to civil liberties. That gay people were brave enough to make a stand like the Stonewall Riot was a truly exceptional thing.
*That's not like the Voting Rights Act, that looked to give protection to minorities who had been prevented from voting by power groups. I mean allowed to vote at all, because before that they weren't actually thought of as actual Australian citizens.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
sirlynchmob wrote:But if he is so unchristian, Why isn't he being excommunicated? where are all the true christians coming out and saying he doesn't represent them, that his interpretation of the bible is wrong?
He isn't being excommunicated because Protestant Christianity doesn't work like that.
And his interpretation of the bible is flat out wrong, a ridiculously narrow reading on a single verse that ignores everything that comes after it. Unfortunately, religion isn't as simple as reading a holy book and learning from it, instead it gets mired in politics, and in this case it's the politics of the 'culture war'. This idea has driven the right wing of the evangelical community into ever and ever more nonsensical, and biblically illiterate, hatred of homosexuality, because they simply define themselves as being opposed to whatever the other side of politics is for.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/06/01 04:42:08
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2012/06/01 05:42:04
Subject: Re:Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
Sure, the Bible may have been inspired by a divine being. The Old Testament was written down by a bunch of sheepherders whose understanding of physics was on a par with a modern preschoolers. Then it got modified by the people in charge for a couple thousand years so they could keep control over their people. Then the New Testament was written (along with a BUNCH of other stuf that may have been divinely inspired), and edited by people who took charge of the religion to make it say what they wanted it to say (consider the implications of them removing the Book of Mary Magdeline and the subsequent poor treatment of women for the next 1500 years, give or take a century) so they could keep control of their people.
The Bible is basically 4000+ years of political brainwashing wrapped around a precious few jewels of wisdom. And waaaaaaaaayyy too many people focus on the political brainwashing rather than the jewels of wisdom.
It's probably because hate is easy, and love is hard. But I imagine there will be quite a few very surprised (and subsequently disappointed, then agonized) people out there when they hit the afterlife...
(Yes, I do take a certain perverse pleasure in the thought. I never said I was a Christian, much less a good one.)
CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done.
2012/06/01 07:12:13
Subject: Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
I am a white men that is married to a black woman.
Through all this nonsense I try to keep in mind that 40 years ago I would not have been able to marry the woman I love if it were up to the same type of people pushing against the LGBT population.
2012/06/01 07:23:57
Subject: Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
Thou shall not eat shellfish or any matter of creatures that scurries on the ground.. or something like that.
Thou shall not wear mixed fiber clothing.
I know there are some other gems in that book.
Now the most important thing that needs to be corrected. I have read the phrase several times and I can not let it pass. "assless chaps" Seriously?!?! That phrase is a reduntancy, all chaps are assless.
Carry on.
2012/06/01 07:29:41
Subject: Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
Sure, the Bible may have been inspired by a divine being. The Old Testament was written down by a bunch of sheepherders whose understanding of physics was on a par with a modern preschoolers. Then it got modified by the people in charge for a couple thousand years so they could keep control over their people. Then the New Testament was written (along with a BUNCH of other stuf that may have been divinely inspired), and edited by people who took charge of the religion to make it say what they wanted it to say (consider the implications of them removing the Book of Mary Magdeline and the subsequent poor treatment of women for the next 1500 years, give or take a century) so they could keep control of their people.
Yeah, I recently learned that 1 Corinthians 14, "The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church" was actually added in later manuscripts, and is absent in the earliest known copies of the text.
I can completely see some blokes finally getting sick of women piping up during theological discussions and adding a new bit to shut them up once and for all
The Bible is basically 4000+ years of political brainwashing wrapped around a precious few jewels of wisdom. And waaaaaaaaayyy too many people focus on the political brainwashing rather than the jewels of wisdom.
I think there's more than few jewels of wisdom, it really is a wonderful text. It really is a wonderful text. But yeah, a lot of people focus on the parts that let them hate on other people, and not the jewels of wisdom.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2012/06/01 07:35:35
Subject: Kansas pastor calls on U.S. government to kill LGBT people
Well as long as he doesn't eat shellfish, wear fabric blend clothing, exile himself if he gets a spot etc then I think he's free to murder anyone. Then those who murder should be stoned in return! So lets all get some rocks.
because they always seem to be the ones getting caught in bathrooms trolling for some good gay lovin.
