Ork Nobz w/ Painboy

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**Jraco**

Adrian Fue Fue wrote:Hmm,

I would go with 50 points,

Talion is an upgrade, +50 making him a 72 point model?
He conveys stealth, a unit upgrade, just like priests and apothecaries. Chaos have Icons at up to +50 also. And all these unit conveying abilities are around +50.

I believe you can use the point system in multiple codex to see the balance in the game. Orks could use a Medic more then terminators could. But terminators would cost +75 while the Orks +30. The ability is given at +30 to a 20 point model. Need the model first, so 50 points for the medic.

Using another armies Codex to say something about the Codex in question is irrelevant. Any balance issues you see between the armies is also irrelevant.
If you own an Ork Codex, you have a means to look at the evidence I have presented. please read my earlier posts.

**stompygitz**

It doesn't matter what it says on page 83. It matters what it says in the Nobz entry, on page 98. It says one nob may be a painboy. This is treated as a nob recieving an upgrade.

**Clavix**

Our main issue here is that written in one section of the book it says "One Nob may be a Painboy...........+30pts" making it appear to be an upgrade to the models, whereas in another section of the book we can deduce that the painboy is a 30pt add-on to the unit (Pg 83 example unit).

It's going to have to come down to a GW FAQ or ruling, because it is written two different ways in the codex. They could have gotten the wording wrong in the units section, or someone put too many models in the picture and no one caught it before it was printed. There's no sense arguing about what it says in the codex because it says both.

**AllYourBase**

Pg 83 makes me scratch my head
DAMN YOU GW
5 Nobz
1 Painboy
Maybe a painboy is not a Nob?? But a painboy

**Rampage**

Then why does it say a Nob may be a Painboy, therefore, the Nob is also a Painboy. Will find out soon though.

**Bacms**

Rampage wrote:Then why does it say a Nob may be a Painboy, therefore, the Nob is also a Painboy. Will find out soon though.

Do you really think so?

**Rampage**

Bacms wrote:
Rampage wrote:Then why does it say a Nob may be a Painboy, therefore, the Nob is also a Painboy. Will find out soon though.

Do you really think so?

Yep, I planning on phoning customer service and asking this afternoon.

EDIT: Ok, I've just phoned, and it looks like Jraco is correct, becoming a Painboy is NOT an upgrade for a Nob, and is actually that a Painboy may be included in the squad for an additional 30pts. So, I'll concede that I was wrong there. I think I'll go and spend the additional 40pts that I've been handicaping myself with for the past 3 years.

**balsak_da_mighty**

Yeah, don't believe customer service. They only look at the rule and interpret it like they see fit. You can call them again and you will get a different answer most of the time.

**Reckoner**

And points and wording aside...painboys are not from the Nob class, they're oddboyz right? Seems odd they cost more than a Big Mek

**Rampage**

What do you mean by they're not part of the Nob class? They're part of the unit entry for Nobz, there isn't a unit entry for oddboyz.

**Reckoner**

Fluff-wise I was speaking. Nobz don't become painboyz, as far as I can tell oddboyz don't become Nobz in the sense of the class.

**Rampage**

Sorry, misinterpreted you there. Yeah you're right, and it's odd that they get the Nobz statline as well.

I think that this thread should really go in YMDC now though.

**Reckoner**

Haha I think it should have been moved there a while ago

**Bacms**

You should actually take a look there before. This thread comes up over and over again with no consensus. The majority seems to play with 20+30 since it is the ones who does not give advantage to the player

**Rampage**

Yeah, I'll still do 50pts, as its better to spend too few points than too many.

**Gharron**

I see both sides, but in the interest of fairness I think it should be 50 points for a painboy..but I also see how he could be 30...sigh that's alot of points too! That's three more boys =O

**Blood Lord Soldado**

30 points for the painboy makes them a lot better.

Competitive ork lists could all use that 20 points. That's a free Deffrolla!!

**Rampage**

It does, but I'd still be happy to pay 50pts for one.

**terranarc**

Rampage wrote:It does, but I'd still be happy to pay 50pts for one.

Because it IS 50 points. This misinterpretation reminds me of the "I CAN USE POTMS WHEN I POP SMOKE" or the "NECRON SCARABS HAVE 16 ATTACKS PER BASE".
Seriously guys? There is a + sign next to the painboy upgrade.

**MFletch**

terranarc wrote:This misinterpretation reminds me of the "I CAN USE POTMS WHEN I POP SMOKE"

That was not really misinterpretation. It was purely not thought out. smoke in rulebook means not shooting, then potms means shoot once more than the rulebook allows.

4 years you have had to take an ork list to a tournament, in some of those years orks were even top tier, start of 5th edition with nob bikers for example, surely you must have been corrected by now.

I assume this comes down to the absence of the word '[be] upgraded [to]' on the entry. Just thinking this is partially due to it being a sidewise move than upwards, but mostly due to space it had to be squashed in.

**Rampage**

terranarc wrote:
Rampage wrote:It does, but I'd still be happy to pay 50pts for one.

Because it IS 50 points. This misinterpretation reminds me of the "I CAN USE POTMS WHEN I POP SMOKE" or the "NECRON SCARABS HAVE 16 ATTACKS PER BASE".
Seriously guys? There is a + sign next to the painboy upgrade.

If you read the thread you would realise that I've actually been arguing that Painboys are 50pts for the most part. I'm merely stating that 50pts is fair in my opinion for a painboy. Try reading before posting.

**G00fySmiley**

Jraco wrote:
Rampage wrote:
Jraco wrote:
DamageContrl wrote:I understand that it's 50, I was just whining. I got an army builder, so it's kinda moot now, but thanks for all your help!

In this case Army Builder is wrong.

No. The phrasing in the codex itself actually says that one Nob may be a Painboy, indicating that a Nob is becoming a Painboy. It doesn't say 'a Nobz squad may be accompanied by a Painboy +30pts' If it did, you'd be right, but it doesn't. The codex says that you can have a Nob who is also a Painboy, in which case, he costs 20pts for being a Nob, and 30pts more for being a Painboy.

Did GW make army builder? No they did not. By saying no to Army Builder being wrong, are you saying Army Builder is infallible? In this case it is wrong.

This has to do with wording, right? I have struggled with this just like you, except for the fact I have seen the picture on page 83 in the Ork Codex. A Codex written by Codex writer and GW employee Phil Kelly. It shows 5 Nobz standing there with a Painboy and a Grot with a big number 5 next to it. That's a total of 6 models, 7 if you count the Grot. Underneath that it lists the point cost for the whole unit with upgrades included. It's listed at 190 points. GW put it there. Wording or not, how do you explain the picture on page 83?

My whole issue with this is the 20 points I would be losing out on, because of people who would think Army Builder is the end all be all, or the people who would call me a cheater for using my Codex properly. 20 points may not be much to you, but to me it's an Ork Kannon or some Big Choppas, or whatever else. For Orks the list is huge.

Can you prove me wrong the way I have proved it right? Show me evidence I'm wrong and I will change the way I see it.

battlescribe has him at 30... I always write +20 next to the numebr as to avoid any arguments abotu an undercosted painboy but i've seen evidence for 50 and 30 points both being somehow correct seeming. I'd have no problem with somebody paying 30 for one as there is evidence to that being the case as well jsu tme i choose to ere on the side of overcosting myself instead of cheating my opponent . as to what phil kelly meant who knows hopefully one day GW will FAQ it... but i think that is unlikely