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Nitros14 wrote:Eldrad doesn't have the God of Magic pouring power into him, whatever his natural talent might be.
Even without Tzeentch backing him up, Magnus' raw psychic might, as the Emperor's son, is far beyond Eldrad.
Where is your basis of reference?
We've gotten the insite of Magnus from the HH books, but what background do we have on Eldrad to say either way? The only entity to even defeat Eldrad psychicaly was Slaanesh himself, as far as published fluff has established. And I'd wager that even Magnus couldn't stand up to a direct assault by a god of Chaos.
From all I've read, Magnus was a cudgel. Powerful, but not possessed of a lot of finesse. Eldrad, like all Eldar, was more like a mono-molecular scalpal. Sharp, and focused. His ability to act as a Farseer was unparalleled by any in his race.
Both were the best their race had to offer. Both worked with the Warp in differant ways. I see it more like asking whose the better fighter, Bruce Lee, or Mike Tyson.
Nitros14 wrote:Eldrad doesn't have the God of Magic pouring power into him, whatever his natural talent might be.
Even without Tzeentch backing him up, Magnus' raw psychic might, as the Emperor's son, is far beyond Eldrad.
Where is your basis of reference?
We've gotten the insite of Magnus from the HH books, but what background do we have on Eldrad to say either way? The only entity to even defeat Eldrad psychicaly was Slaanesh himself, as far as published fluff has established. And I'd wager that even Magnus couldn't stand up to a direct assault by a god of Chaos.
From all I've read, Magnus was a cudgel. Powerful, but not possessed of a lot of finesse. Eldrad, like all Eldar, was more like a mono-molecular scalpal. Sharp, and focused. His ability to act as a Farseer was unparalleled by any in his race.
Since when did Eldrad confront Slaanesh and win? Last I heard, when he linked himself to the Blackstone, Slaanesh devoured him almost in an instant. Only multiple Spirit Stones barely gave him a chance at survival, assuming they can find a way to get his soul back from Slaanesh.
More importantly, mortals cannot directly confront gods. The Emperor could, because He's not mortal, but as long as He remains physically present on the material realm, He cannot directly confront the Powers.
And once again, the difference between Human and Eldar psykers are power and refinement. If Eldrad confronted Magnus, the former would have to avoid directly taking Magnus' hits - if he did, it'd be over in an instant. He'd also have to end it as quickly as possible, because once Magnus adapts and brings his full power to bear, he'd be at a disadvantage. Yes, a scalpel or a poisoned dagger would kill more cleanly than either a sword or a hammer, but the latter two still pack a bigger punch.
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
Nitros14 wrote:Eldrad doesn't have the God of Magic pouring power into him, whatever his natural talent might be.
Even without Tzeentch backing him up, Magnus' raw psychic might, as the Emperor's son, is far beyond Eldrad.
Where is your basis of reference?
We've gotten the insite of Magnus from the HH books, but what background do we have on Eldrad to say either way? The only entity to even defeat Eldrad psychicaly was Slaanesh himself, as far as published fluff has established. And I'd wager that even Magnus couldn't stand up to a direct assault by a god of Chaos.
From all I've read, Magnus was a cudgel. Powerful, but not possessed of a lot of finesse. Eldrad, like all Eldar, was more like a mono-molecular scalpal. Sharp, and focused. His ability to act as a Farseer was unparalleled by any in his race.
Since when did Eldrad confront Slaanesh and win? Last I heard, when he linked himself to the Blackstone, Slaanesh devoured him almost in an instant. Only multiple Spirit Stones barely gave him a chance at survival, assuming they can find a way to get his soul back from Slaanesh.
More importantly, mortals cannot directly confront gods. The Emperor could, because He's not mortal, but as long as He remains physically present on the material realm, He cannot directly confront the Powers.
And once again, the difference between Human and Eldar psykers are power and refinement. If Eldrad confronted Magnus, the former would have to avoid directly taking Magnus' hits - if he did, it'd be over in an instant. He'd also have to end it as quickly as possible, because once Magnus adapts and brings his full power to bear, he'd be at a disadvantage. Yes, a scalpel or a poisoned dagger would kill more cleanly than either a sword or a hammer, but the latter two still pack a bigger punch.
Reread original post. "Only entity to defeat eldrad", which means that Eldrad lost.
I'm not very clear on where all these Eldrad references come from. I'm not much of an Eldar fan so I haven't read much on Eldar.
I know the stuff you'd see in the codecii over the years but I've never read a novel that was based on the Eldar.
I haven't really seen any evidence of Eldrad doing any great psyker acts. I'm not saying he hasn't, I just don't know.
And are we talking about Magnus before or after the Heresy?
Before the Heresy I would give Magnus the slight edge in his powers as a primarch. If Eldrad is so awesomely powerful why did he need such a large bodyguard just to have tea with Fulgrim?
After the Heresy there is no contest. Magnus the avatar of Tzeentch vs an old mystic.
Ok this comparison is rather silly to be honest. Magnus is the 2nd most powerful psychic entity in the universe right now behind Tzeentch. I know some people would want to bring up the Emperor still but lets be honest he's pretty much a psychic vampire entombed in a shiny Throne.
The better comparison would be to compare him to the psykers that exist within the game. For Chaos it would be Ahriman. Now he's a pretty wicked psyker in his own right. Then you have Tigurius for the Ultramarines, Njal for the Wolves and Mephiston for the Blood Angels. If you want to count Daemons then I guess Fateweaver would be in there somewhere. A Tyranid Hive Tyrant would have to be considered too since he can use his powers to cripple a squad or make them run away in terror while being almost immune to enemy psykers because of Shadows in the Warp
Reivax26 wrote:Ok this comparison is rather silly to be honest. Magnus is the 2nd most powerful psychic entity in the universe right now behind Tzeentch. I know some people would want to bring up the Emperor still but lets be honest he's pretty much a psychic vampire entombed in a shiny Throne.
The better comparison would be to compare him to the psykers that exist within the game. For Chaos it would be Ahriman. Now he's a pretty wicked psyker in his own right. Then you have Tigurius for the Ultramarines, Njal for the Wolves and Mephiston for the Blood Angels. If you want to count Daemons then I guess Fateweaver would be in there somewhere. A Tyranid Hive Tyrant would have to be considered too since he can use his powers to cripple a squad or make them run away in terror while being almost immune to enemy psykers because of Shadows in the Warp
Either way, Eldrad is out because his soul is currently lost in a Blackstone fortress fighting Slaanesh's demons...
Craftworld Eleuven 4500
LoneLictor on thread about an ork choking the Emperor:
LoneLictor wrote: I like to imagine the Emperor kills so many Orks that he ends up half buried beneath a pile of corpses, with only his head sticking out. A lone grot stumbles across him, and starts choking him.
Then Horus comes across the lone grot, somehow managing to kill the Emperor, and punts it into space.
Reivax26 wrote:Ok this comparison is rather silly to be honest. Magnus is the 2nd most powerful psychic entity in the universe right now behind Tzeentch. I know some people would want to bring up the Emperor still but lets be honest he's pretty much a psychic vampire entombed in a shiny Throne.
The better comparison would be to compare him to the psykers that exist within the game. For Chaos it would be Ahriman. Now he's a pretty wicked psyker in his own right. Then you have Tigurius for the Ultramarines, Njal for the Wolves and Mephiston for the Blood Angels. If you want to count Daemons then I guess Fateweaver would be in there somewhere. A Tyranid Hive Tyrant would have to be considered too since he can use his powers to cripple a squad or make them run away in terror while being almost immune to enemy psykers because of Shadows in the Warp
Either way, Eldrad is out because his soul is currently lost in a Blackstone fortress fighting Slaanesh's demons...
I hate the fact that you can even play Eldard when he is suppose to be dead. AFAIK he is the only named HQ who is technically "dead" that you can field.
Farseer Mael Dannan wrote:I hate the fact that you can even play Eldard when he is suppose to be dead. AFAIK he is the only named HQ who is technically "dead" that you can field.
Haha yeah. From a playing point of view, I quite like it, but from a fluff point of view it is kind of painful. Especially when you see Eldrad walking around with, say, an Alaitoc or Iyanden army.
Craftworld Eleuven 4500
LoneLictor on thread about an ork choking the Emperor:
LoneLictor wrote: I like to imagine the Emperor kills so many Orks that he ends up half buried beneath a pile of corpses, with only his head sticking out. A lone grot stumbles across him, and starts choking him.
Then Horus comes across the lone grot, somehow managing to kill the Emperor, and punts it into space.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Farseer Mael Dannan wrote:
Lord Rogukiel wrote:
Reivax26 wrote:Ok this comparison is rather silly to be honest. Magnus is the 2nd most powerful psychic entity in the universe right now behind Tzeentch. I know some people would want to bring up the Emperor still but lets be honest he's pretty much a psychic vampire entombed in a shiny Throne.
The better comparison would be to compare him to the psykers that exist within the game. For Chaos it would be Ahriman. Now he's a pretty wicked psyker in his own right. Then you have Tigurius for the Ultramarines, Njal for the Wolves and Mephiston for the Blood Angels. If you want to count Daemons then I guess Fateweaver would be in there somewhere. A Tyranid Hive Tyrant would have to be considered too since he can use his powers to cripple a squad or make them run away in terror while being almost immune to enemy psykers because of Shadows in the Warp
Either way, Eldrad is out because his soul is currently lost in a Blackstone fortress fighting Slaanesh's demons...
I hate the fact that you can even play Eldard when he is suppose to be dead. AFAIK he is the only named HQ who is technically "dead" that you can field.
Tycho is dead and you can play him too(2 different versions to boot)
But thats beside the point.
In game, Farseers(including Eldrad) are support Psykers.
One on One, just about any other psyker is going to give Eldrad a good spanking. GK Librarians do buffing better while also being more killy(and much more expensive)
We will have to wait till the Eldar get an update to see what Farseers become. I imagine they might end up with Level 3 psykers.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Since when did Eldrad confront Slaanesh and win? Last I heard, when he linked himself to the Blackstone, Slaanesh devoured him almost in an instant. Only multiple Spirit Stones barely gave him a chance at survival, assuming they can find a way to get his soul back from Slaanesh.
More importantly, mortals cannot directly confront gods. The Emperor could, because He's not mortal, but as long as He remains physically present on the material realm, He cannot directly confront the Powers.
I'd just like to point out that the Emperor is not a God. He is very much mortal; why do you think he's dying?
Iranna wrote:I'd just like to point out that the Emperor is not a God. He is very much mortal; why do you think he's dying?
Iranna.
He kind of is. He may be dying but if smaller fragments of him could just "respawn" without problem or hang around in the warp, I don't see how his current, much more powerful form would have problems with that. I don't know if god is too much but mortal is not enough.
Back to topic, it depends. Their powers are used differently.
In a stand up fight, Magnus easily. However Eldrad powers were never about fighting. He is not most powerful Warlock but Farseer.
Good things are good,.. so it's good
Keep our city clean.
Report your death to the Department of Expiration
I always considered the playable Eldrad to be a farseer who came into possesion of one of Eldrads soul stones, giving them access to some of his former potential. Giving the eldar dex a "master psyker" special character above a normal farseer, same as any army now with the 'special character unlock army theme' GW has been doing for the last few years.
Since when did Eldrad confront Slaanesh and win? Last I heard, when he linked himself to the Blackstone, Slaanesh devoured him almost in an instant. Only multiple Spirit Stones barely gave him a chance at survival, assuming they can find a way to get his soul back from Slaanesh. More importantly, mortals cannot directly confront gods. The Emperor could, because He's not mortal, but as long as He remains physically present on the material realm, He cannot directly confront the Powers.
I'd just like to point out that the Emperor is not a God. He is very much mortal; why do you think he's dying?
Iranna.
Just because you're immortal you can't be killed. Immortality and invincibility are two different things. The former just means you won't die by natural causes, but can be killed, the latter means you can't be killed, but can still die from natural causes. The Emperor's body was ravaged by Horus, and only the Throne keeps Him alive. He's immortal, even before He became Emperor, but He wasn't invincible. You can kill Him, provided you can get past His defenses. The only reason Horus could incapacitate Him was because the Emperor held back and Horus took advantage.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/17 00:34:38
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
Well... Eldrad is dead, and dead people don't tend to be very good psykers, so Magnus wins by default.
Seriously though, Magnus is not only perhaps the second most powerful psyker in human history, he's also a daemon prince of the god of sorcery. It would give him a bit of an edge.
Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. You can play the best chess in the world, but at the end of the day the pigeon will still knock all the pieces off the board and then gak all over it.
Durza wrote:Well... Eldrad is dead, and dead people don't tend to be very good psykers, so Magnus wins by default.
Seriously though, Magnus is not only perhaps the second most powerful psyker in human history, he's also a daemon prince of the god of sorcery. It would give him a bit of an edge.
And what of before? The Eldar players/fans are going to pin their arguments before Magnus became a Daemon Prince.
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
Durza wrote:Well... Eldrad is dead, and dead people don't tend to be very good psykers, so Magnus wins by default.
Dead people maybe not, but the preserved souls of dead Eldar might... just saying...
You want Eldrad's soul to confront Magnus? That's insane. Magnus would either give it to Tzeentch, or worse, to Slaanesh.
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
He would probably torture Eldrad into serving Tzeentch, and then turn him over to Slannesh after a little while just to see his face
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote:He would probably torture Eldrad into serving Tzeentch, and then turn him over to Slannesh after a little while just to see his face
Serving Tzeentch by starting a civil war between the Craftworlds and while Ulthwe's fleet is away, Abaddon and the Black Legion storm it. Only then when Eldrad is in darkest despair that he's turned over to Slaanesh. All the while he never realizes that Ulthwe is saved at the last minute by Imperial forces.
Just as planned...lol
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/17 03:02:13
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
Tadashi wrote:Just because you're immortal doesn't mean you can't be killed. Immortality and invincibility are two different things. The former just means you won't die by natural causes, but can be killed, the latter means you can't be killed, but can still die from natural causes. The Emperor's body was ravaged by Horus, and only the Throne keeps Him alive. He's immortal, even before He became Emperor, but He wasn't invincible. You can kill Him, provided you can get past His defenses. The only reason Horus could incapacitate Him was because the Emperor held back and Horus took advantage.
Invincible: incapable of being conquered, defeated, or subdued.
Immortal: not mortal; not liable or subject to death; undying
You're argument is flawed. Immortal means literally not mortal, therefore cannot die. Cannot die of ANY CAUSE. If you're saying the Emperor is immortal, then he cannot die, yet only the throne is keeping him alive. Something he wouldn't need if he was immortal.
Source: dictionary.com and any other english dictionary in the world
Craftworld Eleuven 4500
LoneLictor on thread about an ork choking the Emperor:
LoneLictor wrote: I like to imagine the Emperor kills so many Orks that he ends up half buried beneath a pile of corpses, with only his head sticking out. A lone grot stumbles across him, and starts choking him.
Then Horus comes across the lone grot, somehow managing to kill the Emperor, and punts it into space.
Tadashi wrote:Just because you're immortal doesn't mean you can't be killed. Immortality and invincibility are two different things. The former just means you won't die by natural causes, but can be killed, the latter means you can't be killed, but can still die from natural causes. The Emperor's body was ravaged by Horus, and only the Throne keeps Him alive. He's immortal, even before He became Emperor, but He wasn't invincible. You can kill Him, provided you can get past His defenses. The only reason Horus could incapacitate Him was because the Emperor held back and Horus took advantage.
Invincible: incapable of being conquered, defeated, or subdued.
Immortal: not mortal; not liable or subject to death; undying
You're argument is flawed. Immortal means literally not mortal, therefore cannot die. Cannot die of ANY CAUSE. If you're saying the Emperor is immortal, then he cannot die, yet only the throne is keeping him alive. Something he wouldn't need if he was immortal.
Source: dictionary.com and any other english dictionary in the world
Fine. AGELESS. Pointless symantics...even the Chaos Powers consider the Emperor as an equal in the form of their greatest enemy.
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
Tadashi wrote:Just because you're immortal doesn't mean you can't be killed. Immortality and invincibility are two different things. The former just means you won't die by natural causes, but can be killed, the latter means you can't be killed, but can still die from natural causes. The Emperor's body was ravaged by Horus, and only the Throne keeps Him alive. He's immortal, even before He became Emperor, but He wasn't invincible. You can kill Him, provided you can get past His defenses. The only reason Horus could incapacitate Him was because the Emperor held back and Horus took advantage.
Invincible: incapable of being conquered, defeated, or subdued.
Immortal: not mortal; not liable or subject to death; undying
You're argument is flawed. Immortal means literally not mortal, therefore cannot die. Cannot die of ANY CAUSE. If you're saying the Emperor is immortal, then he cannot die, yet only the throne is keeping him alive. Something he wouldn't need if he was immortal.
Source: dictionary.com and any other english dictionary in the world
Actually we dont know if he is or not, his BODY is dieing, we know next to nothing about what will happen to his soul when the body goes, there are plenty of old theorys like the starchild, if that does turn out to be true, then the Emperor truelly is "immortal" in every sense of the word... kill the body (host) and his soul flits off to be re-born and come at you again.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/06/17 11:08:24
People keep saying primarchs power level can't be compared due to them not being on the tabletop.......... Dragio beat down one an carved his mentors name into his heart also the primarch was a deamon prince an we know Draigos level on the table top. I know all primarchs are different but you have a base to make your guesses off.
Also Eldrad is trapped in the soul stones. So if he was to fight he would need to be brought back ........ since a warlock becomes a wraithseer when being brought back I wonder what badass thing Eldrad would become.
Tadashi wrote:Just because you're immortal doesn't mean you can't be killed. Immortality and invincibility are two different things. The former just means you won't die by natural causes, but can be killed, the latter means you can't be killed, but can still die from natural causes. The Emperor's body was ravaged by Horus, and only the Throne keeps Him alive. He's immortal, even before He became Emperor, but He wasn't invincible. You can kill Him, provided you can get past His defenses. The only reason Horus could incapacitate Him was because the Emperor held back and Horus took advantage.
Invincible: incapable of being conquered, defeated, or subdued.
Immortal: not mortal; not liable or subject to death; undying
You're argument is flawed. Immortal means literally not mortal, therefore cannot die. Cannot die of ANY CAUSE. If you're saying the Emperor is immortal, then he cannot die, yet only the throne is keeping him alive. Something he wouldn't need if he was immortal.
Source: dictionary.com and any other english dictionary in the world
Actually we dont know if he is or not, his BODY is dieing, we know next to nothing about what will happen to his soul when the body goes, there are plenty of old theorys like the starchild, if that does turn out to be true, then the Emperor truelly is "immortal" in every sense of the word... kill the body (host) and his soul flits off to be re-born and come at you again.
If that's all that will happen. A Lord of Change in the novel Eye of Terror notes that the Emperor was a worthy ally of Tzeentch, a title something usually attached to one of the other Powers. It also noted that the Emperor was a god in His own right, and the only thing that kept the Powers from manifesting directly in the mortal realm. At the end it also sought the 'death' of the Emperor, despite knowing that with the death of the Emperor's physical form He would enter the Warp and 'harmonize' the Human psyche by canceling out the four Powers as one and uniting into a single being.
Spoiler:
IN A LOFTY, secluded palace far off in the warp, a truly ancient Chi’khami’tzann Tsunoi nodded and blinked in admiration for the Emperor of mankind. The Chi’khami’tzann Tsunoi was one of the first ever to be created by the great Lord of Change, and was reckoned by some to be almost as wise and cunning as Tzeentch himself. He it was who had manipulated the young, inexperienced Great Inventor - and then discarded him. He acknowledged that the Emperor was a god in his own right, worthy to be an ally of Tzeentch himself, so great was his foresight, so subtle his ability to pinpoint cusps which, with the slightest of nudges, could deflect events on to another course. He had even utilised the forces of Chaos, to manoeuvre his actors into position. But the game was still afoot, and would be for millennia. The Emperor had manipulated Chaos but the greater daemon, in turn, had manipulated the Emperor. There were manipulations within manipulations, and only he who failed to see them all would lose.
The Emperor was a great lord, but he was shackled to the husk of his material form, kept alive by mortals who feared to lose their protector. Eventually their efforts would fail. The husk would die, and the Emperor would be released unfettered into the heavenly realms. Then the true war would begin. The Emperor would exert himself to cancel out the four Chaos powers and integrate them into a sane and harmonious whole, thereby harmonising the psyche of mankind. But the heavenly masters did not want to be so absorbed. What was sanity compared with the glorious insanity of the separate Chaos Gods, forever at war with one another? The ancient daemon was patient, as strategists must be. His ultimate aim was the death of the Emperor. To that end, he had set in train impulses which no one but he and blessed Tzeentch himself could see. In his lofty, secluded palace, the Chi’khami’tzann Tsunoi watched, and waited.
Funny, isn't it? The Powers don't want to become as one, but one of them, great Tzeentch himself and his servants, seeks to make it happen.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/17 11:22:21
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
Nitros14 wrote:Eldrad doesn't have the God of Magic pouring power into him, whatever his natural talent might be.
Even without Tzeentch backing him up, Magnus' raw psychic might, as the Emperor's son, is far beyond Eldrad.
The Emperor's son aside, I agree. Magnus was chosen by Tzeentch to be his instrument. It would take a lot to impress the Great Sorcerer, certainly more than a effete witch unenlightened to Chaos could do.
"With the thirty-seven keys of Tzeentch, we open the way for our brothers. With the thousand whispers of Slaanesh, we call to them. With the twelve plagues of Nurgle, we fell their enemies. And with the mighty axe of Khorne, we cut open the world for them." - Chaos Sorcerers Amphion and Zethus, Word Bearers Legion "Hear my warnings, unbelievers. Carried to your minds by the power of the Prince of Excess himself. We have raised altars in this land so that we may sacrifice you to our gods. Veterans of ten millennia of unholy war wait to grind you beneath the treads of their mighty boots. The chosen of Khorne hunger to add you to their bloody tally. The Blood God himself has marked this land, and will claim your skulls for his throne. There is no hope in opposing the inevitable. Put down your arms, unbelievers, and bow before the forces of Chaos Undivided. " - Dark Apostle Eliphas the Inheritor, Word Bearers Legion
Torsoaril wrote:People keep saying primarchs power level can't be compared due to them not being on the tabletop.......... Dragio beat down one an carved his mentors name into his heart also the primarch was a deamon prince an we know Draigos level on the table top. I know all primarchs are different but you have a base to make your guesses off.
Draigo was created to fight Daemons, trained to fight Daemons, equipped to fight Daemons, used to fighting Daemons and is the most powerful Grey Knight currently in existance. It's kinda like fighting Superman wearing a suit of kryptonite, engraving your bones with kryptonite wards, using a gun made of kryptonite to fire kryptonite bullets at Superman while trying to push him into a lake of liquid kryptonite. It's also exactly the thing that Eldrad could (and indeed would try to, based on his modus operandi) do to win: find ways to negate or lessen Magnus's power advantage.
Primarchs are individually more powerful than pretty much anything still alive in the fluff (depending on whether you consider the Emperor and/or the Chaos Gods "alive), but they're not without their individual weaknesses. They can be beaten.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
Torsoaril wrote:People keep saying primarchs power level can't be compared due to them not being on the tabletop.......... Dragio beat down one an carved his mentors name into his heart also the primarch was a deamon prince an we know Draigos level on the table top. I know all primarchs are different but you have a base to make your guesses off.
Draigo was created to fight Daemons, trained to fight Daemons, equipped to fight Daemons, used to fighting Daemons and is the most powerful Grey Knight currently in existance. It's kinda like fighting Superman wearing a suit of kryptonite, engraving your bones with kryptonite wards, using a gun made of kryptonite to fire kryptonite bullets at Superman while trying to push him into a lake of liquid kryptonite. It's also exactly the thing that Eldrad could (and indeed would try to, based on his modus operandi) do to win: find ways to negate or lessen Magnus's power advantage.
Primarchs are individually more powerful than pretty much anything still alive in the fluff (depending on whether you consider the Emperor and/or the Chaos Gods "alive), but they're not without their individual weaknesses. They can be beaten.
Just because he can be beaten doesn't he will. Crimson King FTW.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/23 11:57:47
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Well, obviously the Emperor would kick both their butts. But who would the Emperor support, His own son, or a treacherous Eldar witch? His son obviously.
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
I think Eldrad is weaker than Magnus sometimes and other times he is more powerful. Mainly because Tzeentch doesn't like things to remain the same so is constantly messing with the strands of fate.
This being the case, Magnus doesn't always have his way with Magic so at times he may be weaker than Eldrad. At other times Magnus would overpower Eldrad with so much magic that Eldrad would not stand a chance. It's all based on whatever Tzeentch decides.
"Khorne is a noble warrior who respects strength and bravery, who takes no joy in destroying the weak, and considers the helpless unworthy of his wrath. It is said that fate will spare any brave warrior who calls upon Khorne's name and pledges his soul to the blood god. It is also said that Khorne's daemons will hunt down and destroy any warrior who betrays his honour by killing a helpless innocent or murdering in cold blood..."
from the Renegades supplement for Epic Space Marine, page 54-55
"With the thirty-seven keys of Tzeentch, we open the way for our brothers. With the thousand whispers of Slaanesh, we call to them. With the twelve plagues of Nurgle, we fell their enemies. And with the mighty axe of Khorne, we cut open the world for them." - Chaos Sorcerers Amphion and Zethus, Word Bearers Legion 