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People were kind of talking about this a little bit in another thread and it never really came to resolution. So my question is, who is the more powerful psyker? Magnus or Eldrad?
Feel free to post answers if you wish or feel that it would answer the question more thoroughly than the poll.

GW doesn't really answer this well. Some sources indicate the Eldar are the undisputed masters of the psychic domain, others that humans, while on average below the eldar, surpass them in their most talented individuals, like alpha class psykers.

I tend to go with the second interpretation. Humans are undisciplined, psychically immature, and tend to burn out faster than Eldar, but their most talented individuals seem to far surpass anything a single Eldar is capable of.

Going with this, in my personal interpretation Magnus is the more 'powerful' of the two, though Eldrad would be far more skilled and better able to utilize his power.


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Another thing in Magnuses favor is that Eldrad can be represented on the tabletop, whereas primarchs generally considered not appropriate for tabletop scale combat.

Again, that isn't to say Eldrad is below Magnus. I think is probably far more capable of making predictions and commanding in the long run. (for example, I doubt he would have made the foolish mistake Magnus did in attempting to warn the Emperor) But in terms of pure power he isn't a behemoth like Magnus was/is.

I feel like magnus was one of the most powerful psykers ever. Aside from the emperor

If I remember right, there was a bit of fluff in codex craftworld eldar where a captured Ulthwe ranger was saying to his interrogator that Eldrad for saw the HH and warned "that fledgling seer" (the emperor) about it. In terms of raw screw up the other guy power yea magnus has it, but I see eldrad as having a far greater reach and potential with his power. Kinda like comparing Khorn to Tzentch, one has power the other has influence.

"that fledgling seer" line seemed odd to me. The Emperor was 40k years old. I know Eldar aren't truly immortal, and I didn't think their lifetime was such that they would sneer at 40k year old being.

riplikash wrote:GW doesn't really answer this well. Some sources indicate the Eldar are the undisputed masters of the psychic domain, others that humans, while on average below the eldar, surpass them in their most talented individuals, like alpha class psykers.

I tend to go with the second interpretation. Humans are undisciplined, psychically immature, and tend to burn out faster than Eldar, but their most talented individuals seem to far surpass anything a single Eldar is capable of.

Some Humans may exceed the generic Eldar in pure psychic power (Alpha Psykers), however equally the greatest Eldar psykers will make the greatest Human psykers look like rank amaterurs and crush them as such.

riplikash wrote:[user]Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another thing in Magnuses favor is that Eldrad can be represented on the tabletop, whereas primarchs generally considered not appropriate for tabletop scale combat.

Fluff does not equal rules and vice versa! If it did Muagan Ra could slaugter a Apoc Sized Tyranid army by him self (In their own codex no less)!

Now Eldar lore isn't my forte. Are there examples of Eldar Alpha level psykers? I was under the impression there were not; that they were both more consistently powerful, and far more skilled and disciplined, but that they didn't reach such heights of pure power.

Any examples of Eldar being able to toss titans and crack continents?

Magnus would probably squish Eldrad like a flea.

Eldrad is but a shadow of what the Eldar were in their height and he may not be all that powerful. If he really was all that powerful, he could have killed Angron quite easily. But instead Angron gave the Avatar Eldrad brought along a nice butt whooping and Eldrad barely escaped.

And then the Eldar are far too scared to use their powers to their full potential because of Slannesh. Magnus and the Emperor have no such issues.


Thats just the HH era Magnus.

The current Magnus wouldn't even bat an eyelash at the likes of Eldrad.

Not that it matters since Eldrad is dead. No, worse then dead. He's getting royally rodgered by Slannesh.

Grey Templar wrote:
Eldrad is but a shadow of what the Eldar were in their height and he may not be all that powerful. If he really was all that powerful, he could have killed Angron quite easily. But instead Angron gave the Avatar Eldrad brought along a nice butt whooping and Eldrad barely escaped.

Following that line of thought, The Emperor should never have gotten strangled by that Ork Warboss. 40k, like in all badly defined lore, allows high level fighters to match high level psykers, because otherwise it just wouldn't be fair

And then the Eldar are far too scared to use their powers to their full potential because of Slannesh. Magnus and the Emperor have no such issues.

I'm not sure where you get this from.. Any indication that eldar using psychic powers attract Slaanesh's attention?

Not that it matters since Eldrad is dead. No, worse then dead. He's getting royally rodgered by Slannesh.

I thought that his soul was trapped in a loss soulstone?

riplikash wrote:Now Eldar lore isn't my forte. Are there examples of Eldar Alpha level psykers? I was under the impression there were not; that they were both more consistently powerful, and far more skilled and disciplined, but that they didn't reach such heights of pure power.

Any examples of Eldar being able to toss titans and crack continents?

There are tales of Eldar killing stars with their minds before the fall, however when one can see and manlipulate the future to such a degree as the Eldar can such blatent shows of force are crude and unnecessary.

Grey Templar wrote:Magnus would probably squish Eldrad like a flea.

Eldrad is but a shadow of what the Eldar were in their height and he may not be all that powerful. If he really was all that powerful, he could have killed Angron quite easily. But instead Angron gave the Avatar Eldrad brought along a nice butt whooping and Eldrad barely escaped.

First of all the Primarch in question is Fulgrim not Angron.

And the Horus Heresy novels are a poor source of information on the Eldar, sadly caused by most black libary authors not knowing what they are talking about in regards to Eldar. For instance ancient howling banshee masks being found in 'A Thousand Sons' when at that time point aspect warriors would of been a recent devolopment. And 'strangling' a statue with molten iron to death... really?



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Kovnik Obama wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

Not that it matters since Eldrad is dead. No, worse then dead. He's getting royally rodgered by Slannesh.

I thought that his soul was trapped in a loss soulstone?

Eldrad split his soul across several spirit stones, all of which are still active... his body may be dead but his spirit is still alive

Stu H wrote:

riplikash wrote:Now Eldar lore isn't my forte. Are there examples of Eldar Alpha level psykers? I was under the impression there were not; that they were both more consistently powerful, and far more skilled and disciplined, but that they didn't reach such heights of pure power.

Any examples of Eldar being able to toss titans and crack continents?

There are tales of Eldar killing stars with their minds before the fall, however when one can see and manlipulate the future to such a degree as the Eldar can such blatent shows of force are crude and unnecessary.

The Emperor defeated and imprisoned the Void Dragon. Even if it was a shard, the shards were around already towards the end of the War in Heaven and not even the Eldar defeated them then. If the Necrons didn't choose to go into dormancy, they'd still have won in the long run. As will the Imperium now.

Grey Templar wrote:Magnus would probably squish Eldrad like a flea.

Eldrad is but a shadow of what the Eldar were in their height and he may not be all that powerful. If he really was all that powerful, he could have killed Angron quite easily. But instead Angron gave the Avatar Eldrad brought along a nice butt whooping and Eldrad barely escaped.

First of all the Primarch in question is Fulgrim not Angron.

And the Horus Heresy novels are a poor source of information on the Eldar, sadly caused by most black libary authors not knowing what they are talking about in regards to Eldar. For instance ancient howling banshee masks being found in 'A Thousand Sons' when at that time point aspect warriors would of been a recent devolopment. And 'strangling' a statue with molten iron to death... really?

A Primarch is a demi-god. Does that answer your question? And the HH novels are canon. GW said so already.

On-topic, Magnus would either rip Eldrad in half in close-combat, or turn him into a pile of ashes and daemon bait from a distance. He's the Emperor's son; the Emperor who walked the galaxy when Mankind was young and witnessed the Eldar Empire at its height and its fall from grace to the depths of depravity. Not to mention the only being that ever forced the Chaos Powers to stop the Great Game and move as one in fear. Not even the Eldar Gods did that, or the fact that the Powers ignore the Eldar most of the time. You think the son of a man like that can be beaten by a puny Eldar Witch? Of course not.

The Crimson King!
If you want to think of it like this, in the Eldar Codex, you are allowed to field Eldrad on the table, and his rules seem pretty fluffy to me.
If they allowed you to run Magnus table top, and make his rules accurately fluffy, he'd be an outrageous, high point, unstoppable murder machine for apocalypse games.

Tadashi wrote:repetitive stuff already seen a hundred times

On-topic, Magnus would either rip Eldrad in half in close-combat, or turn him into a pile of ashes and daemon bait from a distance. He's the Emperor's son, a being who walked the galaxy when Mankind was young and witnessed the Eldar Empire at its height and its fall from grace to the depths of depravity. Not to mention the only being that ever forced the Chaos Powers to stop the Great Game and move as one in fear. Not even the Eldar Gods did that, or the fact that the Powers ignore the Eldar most of the time. You think the son of a man like that can be beaten by a puny Eldar Witch? Of course not.

You are one of the most biased people on this forum. Every time there's a thread about any race vs. the imperium, you always have to come up shouting how the Imperium is so much better than everyone else.

"You think the son of a man like that can be beaten by a puny Eldar Witch? Of course not"
Firstly, this comment is absolutely useless because it's your very biased opinion. Secondly, Eldrad is male and therefore not a witch.

The Eldar fall was before man took to the stars, so I doubt the primarchs witnessed it.

I agree that Magnus has more raw psychic power, but then again, the primarchs are pretty much demi-gods as you insistently cry. You can hardly compare demi-gods to mortal Eldar.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:
The Eldar fall was before man took to the stars, so I doubt the primarchs witnessed it.

Before? On the contrary, Mankind was already travelling the stars before the Fall. In fact, the Eldar must also take part of the blame for the Old Night. The fall into depravity of the Eldar led to the Warp Storms that would herald the not just the Fall of the Eldar but also the Old Night. And yes, the Primarchs did not see the Fall, but the Emperor certainly did. The Emperor walked the stars when Mankind was young and vigorous - during the Golden Age of Technology - and witnessed the fall from grace of the Eldar. He is older than any Eldar still alive, and is the only one known to have defeated a C'tan by Himself, and the only one the Chaos Powers consider as their equal, even if only in the form of their greatest enemy.

And in 40k, Witch is a unisex term, applicable to both male and female.

Tadashi wrote:

Lord Rogukiel wrote:
The Eldar fall was before man took to the stars, so I doubt the primarchs witnessed it.

Before? On the contrary, Mankind was already travelling the stars before the Fall. In fact, the Eldar must also take part of the blame for the Old Night. The fall into depravity of the Eldar led to the Warp Storms that would herald the not just the Fall of the Eldar but also the Old Night. And yes, the Primarchs did not see the Fall, but the Emperor certainly did. The Emperor walked the stars when Mankind was young and vigorous - during the Golden Age of Technology - and witnessed the fall from grace of the Eldar. He is older than any Eldar still alive, and is the only one known to have defeated a C'tan by Himself, and the only one the Chaos Powers consider as their equal, even if only in the form of their greatest enemy.

And in 40k, Witch is a unisex term, applicable to both male and female.

The fall of the Eldar allowed the warp storms around Terra to clear up and mankind to readily take to the stars as Balance was brought to the warp due to Slaanesh's birth.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Lord Rogukiel wrote:
The Eldar fall was before man took to the stars, so I doubt the primarchs witnessed it.

Before? On the contrary, Mankind was already travelling the stars before the Fall. In fact, the Eldar must also take part of the blame for the Old Night. The fall into depravity of the Eldar led to the Warp Storms that would herald the not just the Fall of the Eldar but also the Old Night. And yes, the Primarchs did not see the Fall, but the Emperor certainly did. The Emperor walked the stars when Mankind was young and vigorous - during the Golden Age of Technology - and witnessed the fall from grace of the Eldar. He is older than any Eldar still alive, and is the only one known to have defeated a C'tan by Himself, and the only one the Chaos Powers consider as their equal, even if only in the form of their greatest enemy.

And in 40k, Witch is a unisex term, applicable to both male and female.

The fall of the Eldar allowed the warp storms around Terra to clear up and mankind to readily take to the stars as Balance was brought to the warp due to Slaanesh's birth.

True, but those Warp Storms erupted because of the decadence of the Eldar Empire. Together with the war with the Men of Iron and the increasing number of Eldar psykers, it began the Old Night.

Tadashi wrote:

Lord Rogukiel wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Lord Rogukiel wrote:
The Eldar fall was before man took to the stars, so I doubt the primarchs witnessed it.

Before? On the contrary, Mankind was already travelling the stars before the Fall. In fact, the Eldar must also take part of the blame for the Old Night. The fall into depravity of the Eldar led to the Warp Storms that would herald the not just the Fall of the Eldar but also the Old Night. And yes, the Primarchs did not see the Fall, but the Emperor certainly did. The Emperor walked the stars when Mankind was young and vigorous - during the Golden Age of Technology - and witnessed the fall from grace of the Eldar. He is older than any Eldar still alive, and is the only one known to have defeated a C'tan by Himself, and the only one the Chaos Powers consider as their equal, even if only in the form of their greatest enemy.

And in 40k, Witch is a unisex term, applicable to both male and female.

The fall of the Eldar allowed the warp storms around Terra to clear up and mankind to readily take to the stars as Balance was brought to the warp due to Slaanesh's birth.

True, but those Warp Storms erupted because of the decadence of the Eldar Empire. Together with the war with the Men of Iron and the increasing number of Eldar psykers, it began the Old Night.

LOL, It's always everyone elses fault apart from the Imperiums ...

The Eldar were already a psychic race so the Age of Strife had little, if nothing, to do with the Eldar. It was down to the uncontrolled emergence of so many psykers amongst humanity. The decadence of the Eldar was responsible for the birth of Slaanesh, which is more than enough to pin on them.

The Warp Storms that disrupted warp travel and communications at the beginning of the Old Night were caused by Slaanesh' growing sentience and form within the Warp as caused by the decadent Eldar Empire.

Tadashi wrote:The Warp Storms that disrupted warp travel and communications at the beginning of the Old Night were caused by Slaanesh' growing sentience and form within the Warp as caused by the decadent Eldar Empire.

Ok ... but it's also down to the emergence of uncontrolled human psykers

Pilau Rice wrote:

Tadashi wrote:The Warp Storms that disrupted warp travel and communications at the beginning of the Old Night were caused by Slaanesh' growing sentience and form within the Warp as caused by the decadent Eldar Empire.

Ok ... but it's also down to the emergence of uncontrolled human psykers

AFAIK, there were three causes for the Old Night:
1) The devastation of the war with the Men of Iron.
2) Increasing numbers of Human psykers, of whom only a bare few could properly use their powers or resist Chaotic influence/daemonic possession.
3) The Warp Storms caused by the decadence of the Eldar Empire.

Tadashi wrote:
2) Increasing numbers of Human psykers, of whom only a bare few could properly use their powers or resist Chaotic influence/daemonic possession.

Hence the uncontrolled part I mention

Pilau Rice wrote:

Tadashi wrote:
2) Increasing numbers of Human psykers, of whom only a bare few could properly use their powers or resist Chaotic influence/daemonic possession.

Hence the uncontrolled part I mention

So you did. But I never claimed that the Old Night was entirely the fault of the Eldar. In my earlier post, I simply said 'partly the blame'.

Tadashi wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

Tadashi wrote:
2) Increasing numbers of Human psykers, of whom only a bare few could properly use their powers or resist Chaotic influence/daemonic possession.

Hence the uncontrolled part I mention

So you did. But I never claimed that the Old Night was entirely the fault of the Eldar. In my earlier post, I simply said 'partly the blame'.

Yeah, my bad, I missed the Iron Man part.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:

Tadashi wrote:repetitive stuff already seen a hundred times

On-topic, Magnus would either rip Eldrad in half in close-combat, or turn him into a pile of ashes and daemon bait from a distance. He's the Emperor's son, a being who walked the galaxy when Mankind was young and witnessed the Eldar Empire at its height and its fall from grace to the depths of depravity. Not to mention the only being that ever forced the Chaos Powers to stop the Great Game and move as one in fear. Not even the Eldar Gods did that, or the fact that the Powers ignore the Eldar most of the time. You think the son of a man like that can be beaten by a puny Eldar Witch? Of course not.

You are one of the most biased people on this forum. Every time there's a thread about any race vs. the imperium, you always have to come up shouting how the Imperium is so much better than everyone else.

"You think the son of a man like that can be beaten by a puny Eldar Witch? Of course not"
Firstly, this comment is absolutely useless because it's your very biased opinion. Secondly, Eldrad is male and therefore not a witch.

The Eldar fall was before man took to the stars, so I doubt the primarchs witnessed it.

I agree that Magnus has more raw psychic power, but then again, the primarchs are pretty much demi-gods as you insistently cry. You can hardly compare demi-gods to mortal Eldar.

After watching you two argue, I'll put forth my consensus;

I do think you are incredibly biased on the side of the imperium, Tadashi, but you aren't wrong in some regards, and I enjoy reading some of your posts

Magnus would probably beat Eldrad, but it would be a relatively close match. Eldrad was alive at the fall - aka was at his full power at the hight of the eldar empire and still is. The rules don't really support this for him, as he probably could wipe out stars I believe.

But, Magnus is human, and has more raw power he can't fully control, and so would eventually defeat Eldrad, because Magnus is a demi-god, created by the most powerful of psykers


TL;DR Magnus would manage to win, but Eldrad would give him a run for his money.


Von Chogg

I voted Magnus in the end. I think however, that psychic powers manifest differently (or so it appears) between Humans and Eldar. Eldar's powers were already immense before the Fall, and when Asuryan died by Slaanesh's Hands IIRC he gave part of his power to the Eldar race so they could carry on without the Eldar Gods. This transference of power is what causes all Eldar to be so infertile and is the bane and boon of their society. It is also, once again IIRC, what truly brought about the existence of Farseers as we know them.

However, than that prompts us to look at what the Eldar powers have become in reference to that event. Human psychic powers are usually extremely malevolent, even Magnus's Psychic Powers are usually blasts/fire/lighting. All human's seem to fall along that line, with a very limited amount of foresight (pretty much only enough to effect the actual situation at hand, and more typically being able to slow time than predict future events). Humans malevolent power seems to be extremely power compared to that of Eldar's when you compare each race's "top of the line" Psykers. Even take what the lore gives us, IG Psykers or Librarians can hit much harder and have more utility than a Eldar Warlock who I would have to imagine is considered about equal status in the Eldar race.

However, the visions of the future are given to Mankind by false powers primarily (Magnus's ability to see the future is from Tzeentch. Most human psykers have little to no ability to see the future) where as Eldar have a plentiful amount of Farseers. I believe this is the main difference between each being a psychically active race, that while Humans have brute force, Eldar have finesse. This is seen in how the Eldar's main use of Psychic Powers are to see or influence the future (Guide/Doom/Future are all examples of this). Eldar's psychic powers are in tune with their way of life, they are intelligent and well thought out while having taking backstabbing or underhanded tactics. This is inline with their powers. Humans are brutal and relentless, but not nearly as cunning or well thought out. Their powers are indicative of themselves and their way of life for each species. Even the Psychic powers or Orks match their lifestyle.

As for a battle between Eldrad and Magnus, it really depends on what Eldrad saw for that event and how early he had that vision before the fight. Years before the fight, a very well planned trick could give Eldrad the day. Knowing he would never match Magnus's raw Psyhic Might, maybe he inscribes a Rune on the ground and tricks Magnus into standing on it, thus nullifying all of his powers and giving Eldrad the moment to strike. That is how Eldrad would go about winning, or luring him into a trap sprung by his Seer Council (after all, Eldar don't really have much chivalry). However, if Eldrad only knew of the battle a day before hand, he may very well be screwed. I don't think any Eldar Psyker would have a chance head on in a battle vs Magnus or the Emperor.

Von Chogg wrote:


TL;DR Magnus would manage to win, but Eldrad would give him a run for his money.

I can accept that.

Farseer Mael Dannan wrote:Eldar's powers were already immense before the Fall, and when Asuryan died by Slaanesh's Hands IIRC he gave part of his power to the Eldar race so they could carry on without the Eldar Gods. This transference of power is what causes all Eldar to be so infertile and is the bane and boon of their society. It is also, once again IIRC, what truly brought about the existence of Farseers as we know them.

Where did this come from? I thought Asuryan was obliterated/consumed at the instant of the Fall.

However, than that prompts us to look at what the Eldar powers have become in reference to that event. Human psychic powers are usually extremely malevolent, even Magnus's Psychic Powers are usually blasts/fire/lighting. All human's seem to fall along that line, with a very limited amount of foresight (pretty much only enough to effect the actual situation at hand, and more typically being able to slow time than predict future events). Humans malevolent power seems to be extremely power compared to that of Eldar's when you compare each race's "top of the line" Psykers. Even take what the lore gives us, IG Psykers or Librarians can hit much harder and have more utility than a Eldar Warlock who I would have to imagine is considered about equal status in the Eldar race.

However, the visions of the future are given to Mankind by false powers primarily (Magnus's ability to see the future is from Tzeentch. Most human psykers have little to no ability to see the future) where as Eldar have a plentiful amount of Farseers. I believe this is the main difference between each being a psychically active race, that while Humans have brute force, Eldar have finesse. This is seen in how the Eldar's main use of Psychic Powers are to see or influence the future (Guide/Doom/Future are all examples of this). Eldar's psychic powers are in tune with their way of life, they are intelligent and well thought out while having taking backstabbing or underhanded tactics. This is inline with their powers. Humans are brutal and relentless, but not nearly as cunning or well thought out. Their powers are indicative of themselves and their way of life for each species. Even the Psychic powers or Orks match their lifestyle.

I think this pretty much sums up the difference in the connection to the Warp the Eldar and Humans have. Chaos and Mankind are one and the same, so it shouldn't be surprising that Human powers are enormously destructive - lacking refinement, but monstrously powerful, like the Chaos Powers. Eldar lack pure power, but they make up for it in refinement and finesse.

As for a battle between Eldrad and Magnus, it really depends on what Eldrad saw for that event and how early he had that vision before the fight. Years before the fight, a very well planned trick could give Eldrad the day. Knowing he would never match Magnus's raw Psyhic Might, maybe he inscribes a Rune on the ground and tricks Magnus into standing on it, thus nullifying all of his powers and giving Eldrad the moment to strike. That is how Eldrad would go about winning, or luring him into a trap sprung by his Seer Council (after all, Eldar don't really have much chivalry). However, if Eldrad only knew of the battle a day before hand, he may very well be screwed. I don't think any Eldar Psyker would have a chance head on in a battle vs Magnus or the Emperor.

There's still a chance Magnus would just overpower the rune or engage Eldrad in close combat without psychic powers. Magnus is a Primarch, and all of them had great resistance to the Warp inherited from their father.

Tadashi wrote:
Where did this come from? I thought Asuryan was obliterated/consumed at the instant of the Fall.

I can't remember which Codex had it in there, but I went on a spree of reading all the Codexs and I remember something along these lines happening. I would guess 2nd edition but don't quote me on that. If I can find them at my parents house next time I go there I'll dig up where it was covered.

Tadashi wrote:
There's still a chance Magnus would just overpower the rune or engage Eldrad in close combat without psychic powers. Magnus is a Primarch, and all of them had great resistance to the Warp inherited from their father.

This is very true. You would have to imagine that victory could be Eldard's though between the Rune, seeing the future, and I'm sure having his own Seer Council setup for an ambush when he activated the Rune. Now Magnus resisting the Rune would be up in there air, much like the roll of a dice.

Farseer Mael Dannan wrote:

This is very true. You would have to imagine that victory could be Eldard's though between the Rune, seeing the future, and I'm sure having his own Seer Council setup for an ambush when he activated the Rune. Now Magnus resisting the Rune would be up in there air, much like the roll of a dice.

If we involve a Seer Council, we're going to have to involve either the Scarab Occult or the Five Magisters of the Thousand Sons as well just to balance it out. Regardless of whether or not we involve them though, it's going to boil down to power (Magnus) against refinement (Eldrad). If the battle becomes drawn out, Eldrad should retreat: overwhelming power becomes an advantage in attrition battles as proven in WWII.

Eldrad doesn't have the God of Magic pouring power into him, whatever his natural talent might be.

Nitros14 wrote:Eldrad doesn't have the God of Magic pouring power into him, whatever his natural talent might be.

Even without Tzeentch backing him up, Magnus' raw psychic might, as the Emperor's son, is far beyond Eldrad.