Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Tadashi wrote:

Melissia wrote:The Emperor.

Well, obviously the Emperor would kick both their butts. But who would the Emperor support, His own treacherous Daemon-Prince son, or an Eldar?

Fixed that for you

Tadashi wrote:Well, obviously the Emperor would kick both their butts. But who would the Emperor support, His own son, or a treacherous Eldar witch? His son obviously.

I find it odd that you call Eldrad treacherous but not Magnus. Eldrad tried to warn to Imperium of the impending Horus Heresy, Magnus is a Daemon Prince.

EDIT: Maybe I should have read Almightly Walrus's post before commenting.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Melissia wrote:The Emperor.

Well, obviously the Emperor would kick both their butts. But who would the Emperor support, His own treacherous Daemon-Prince son, or an Eldar?

Fixed that for you

Magnus did what he did for his father and the Imperium, whereas that witch only seeks to manipulate the Imperium for the Eldar's benefit. IMO, the Emperor did meet Eldrad before He became Emperor, with the latter trying to dissuade the former. The man refused, the Eldar attacked, only to get their asses handed to them.

It is interesting to note that at the time that happened Eldrad was very very young for a farseer and had almost no power compared to the way he is now. Had he been as old then, as he is now, there is no way it would have gone down that way.

According to fluff the Eldar become immensely powerful the older they get. Seeing as Eldrad is the most powerful Seer the Eldar have ever seen since the fall, I think it's safe to assume he would not have lost that battle so easily if at all.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:It is interesting to note that at the time that happened Eldrad was very very young for a farseer and had almost no power compared to the way he is now. Had he been as old then, as he is now, there is no way it would have gone down that way.

According to fluff the Eldar become immensely powerful the older they get. Seeing as Eldrad is the most powerful Seer the Eldar have ever seen since the fall, I think it's safe to assume he would not have lost that battle so easily if at all.

Wait, did you just claim that Eldrad would win against the Emperor? As in the guy who went head to head with the four Chaos Gods and won? Eldrad got mind!"#¤ed by ONE of them, the Emperor held off all four. No contest, Emperor wins.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:It is interesting to note that at the time that happened Eldrad was very very young for a farseer and had almost no power compared to the way he is now. Had he been as old then, as he is now, there is no way it would have gone down that way.

According to fluff the Eldar become immensely powerful the older they get. Seeing as Eldrad is the most powerful Seer the Eldar have ever seen since the fall, I think it's safe to assume he would not have lost that battle so easily if at all.

Wait, did you just claim that Eldrad would win against the Emperor? As in the guy who went head to head with the four Chaos Gods and won? Eldrad got mind!"#¤ed by ONE of them, the Emperor held off all four. No contest, Emperor wins.

He's gone over the edge, Walrus. He's been claiming that for a while now. Apparently, he cannot or refuses to see the truth.

Even after the Fall of the Eldar, Slaanesh just turned his/her/its back on the Eldar and the material realm. The only time the Powers started taking a serious interest in mortals was during and after the rise of the Emperor. He was the only one who ever truly posed a threat to them. And before you contradict us, Roadkill-san, let me tell you this: if Eldrad really is more powerful than the Emperor and posed a greater threat to the Powers, why don't they direct Abaddon and the others to Ulthwe. Its much closer than Terra to the Eye. Yet all this time, the Powers have directed their servants to break the Cadian Gate, get to Terra, and unplug the Throne. Why? Because the Emperor is still a greater power and threat. It took all four Powers manifesting through Horus to incapacitate the Emperor. It only took a small aspect of Slaanesh to defeat Eldrad. Have you seen my point yet?

Roadkill Zombie wrote:I think Eldrad is weaker than Magnus sometimes and other times he is more powerful. Mainly because Tzeentch doesn't like things to remain the same so is constantly messing with the strands of fate.

This being the case, Magnus doesn't always have his way with Magic so at times he may be weaker than Eldrad. At other times Magnus would overpower Eldrad with so much magic that Eldrad would not stand a chance. It's all based on whatever Tzeentch decides.

Tzeentch does not control psychic powers.

Though certainly he would like the galaxy to believe he does.

Melissia wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:I think Eldrad is weaker than Magnus sometimes and other times he is more powerful. Mainly because Tzeentch doesn't like things to remain the same so is constantly messing with the strands of fate.

This being the case, Magnus doesn't always have his way with Magic so at times he may be weaker than Eldrad. At other times Magnus would overpower Eldrad with so much magic that Eldrad would not stand a chance. It's all based on whatever Tzeentch decides.

Tzeentch does not control psychic powers.

Though certainly he would like the galaxy to believe he does.

No, I didn't mean it that way. I guess I could have explained it better. I meant he does control Magnus but Magnus doesn't know it. He engineers fate so Magnus doesn't get his way all the time but sometimes does. This makes Magnus not as reliable in his power levels as Eldrad would be. So Magnus is more random, depending on what he's got going on to try to increase his power.

Ah, then yes.


Being a follower of tzeentch isn't about victory. It's about plotting for the sake of plotting.

Eldrad ran in fear from a pissed off Fulgrim. The same Fulgrim who was mentally influenced by a Greater Daemon (Who can control a planet telepathically). The same Greater Daemon who was mentally tortured and toyed with by Lorgar. The same Lorgar who was mentally dominated by Magnus the Red... From the other side of the galaxy.

In terms of finesse, Eldrad is arguably better psychically than Magnus, but Magnus's raw power edge is enormous. The strength to make all tactics useless. That is strength absolute.

And really, people are exagerrating how "unskilled" Magnus is psychically. He can peer into the future, both in battle, and long-term to an extent. He can slow down or halt the passage of time. He can telepathically dominate Lorgar, probably the second most psychically powerful Primarch, from the other side of the damn galaxy, while using his power to manifest a psychic avatar on Lorgar's ship. He can ravage the surface of a world by tearing down the boundaries of the veil, and creating devastating Earthquakes and storms across the surface. He has enough telekinetic finesse to shatter a pyramid of glass, then skewer Space Marines with individual shards of it by the hundreds. He can transmute an ocean into acid that can kill Space Marines and Custodians on contact. He can also heal his own wounds.

Let's be real here. How exactly does anyone propose Eldrad deal with all of that?

Void__Dragon wrote:Eldrad ran in fear from a pissed off Fulgrim. The same Fulgrim who was mentally influenced by a Greater Daemon (Who can control a planet telepathically). The same Greater Daemon who was mentally tortured and toyed with by Lorgar. The same Lorgar who was mentally dominated by Magnus the Red... From the other side of the galaxy.

In terms of finesse, Eldrad is arguably better psychically than Magnus, but Magnus's raw power edge is enormous. The strength to make all tactics useless. That is strength absolute.

And really, people are exagerrating how "unskilled" Magnus is psychically. He can peer into the future, both in battle, and long-term to an extent. He can slow down or halt the passage of time. He can telepathically dominate Lorgar, probably the second most psychically powerful Primarch, from the other side of the damn galaxy, while using his power to manifest a psychic avatar on Lorgar's ship. He can ravage the surface of a world by tearing down the boundaries of the veil, and creating devastating Earthquakes and storms across the surface. He has enough telekinetic finesse to shatter a pyramid of glass, then skewer Space Marines with individual shards of it by the hundreds. He can transmute an ocean into acid that can kill Space Marines and Custodians on contact. He can also heal his own wounds.

Let's be real here. How exactly does anyone propose Eldrad deal with all of that?

Roadkill Zombie thinks Eldrad can 'just as planned' Magnus. Apparently. he forgets Magnus had tutelage from two masters of 'just as planed': the Emperor and Tzeentch.

The universe of 40k is a giant "Just as planned!" pileup. Eldrad's come out of it still alive, despite having vastly inferior military forces and possibly inferior raw psychic strength, by virtue of...wait for it...knowing when to turn tail and run like hell.

For the record: Whether Magnus would beat Eldrad in a fair fight is immaterial, by virtue of the fact that if the possibility existed Eldrad would work to avert it with every ounce of power he possessed, because if Tzeentch loses Magnus it's a minor setback (he's still got unnumbered Greater Daemons, who according to some sources (including Angron's stats) surpass the Daemon Primarchs in power), whereas if the Eldar lose Eldrad they can't replace him easily. It's not a matter of martial glory, honor, pansy-ass Eldar running from yet another fight, it's a matter of survival. Eldrad's going to avoid any fight he stands any chance of losing, because he can't afford to lose, while most of his foes can. There are thousands upon thousands of powerful Chaos Sorcerers lining up, just waiting for Tzeentch to get bored of Magnus and put them in his place; there isn't anyone standing behind Eldrad to seamlessly pick up his place if he falls, and he knows it.

AnomanderRake wrote:Eldrad's come out of it still alive

I lol'd.

AnomanderRake wrote:The universe of 40k is a giant "Just as planned!" pileup. Eldrad's come out of it still alive, despite having vastly inferior military forces and possibly inferior raw psychic strength, by virtue of...wait for it...knowing when to turn tail and run like hell.

For the record: Whether Magnus would beat Eldrad in a fair fight is immaterial, by virtue of the fact that if the possibility existed Eldrad would work to avert it with every ounce of power he possessed, because if Tzeentch loses Magnus it's a minor setback (he's still got unnumbered Greater Daemons, who according to some sources (including Angron's stats) surpass the Daemon Primarchs in power), whereas if the Eldar lose Eldrad they can't replace him easily. It's not a matter of martial glory, honor, pansy-ass Eldar running from yet another fight, it's a matter of survival. Eldrad's going to avoid any fight he stands any chance of losing, because he can't afford to lose, while most of his foes can. There are thousands upon thousands of powerful Chaos Sorcerers lining up, just waiting for Tzeentch to get bored of Magnus and put them in his place; there isn't anyone standing behind Eldrad to seamlessly pick up his place if he falls, and he knows it.

Isn't Eldrad dead and being feasted on by Slaneesh in the fluff right now?

Edit- Also, to be fair to Eldrad, IIRC he was just over 10,000 years old circa 999.M41, meaning that during the events of the Horus Heresy, he would have been at most just a few decades to centuries old; still barely a baby in Eldar terms. In his prime, he'd be astronomically more powerful than he was when he met with Fulgrim.

BlaxicanX wrote:

Edit- Also, to be fair to Eldrad, IIRC he was just over 10,000 years old circa 999.M41, meaning that during the events of the Horus Heresy, he would have been at most just a few decades to centuries old; still barely a baby in Eldar terms. In his prime, he'd be astronomically more powerful than he was when he met with Fulgrim.

No, he's older than that. The witch knew the Emperor before He became the Emperor. He would have been centuries old at least by the time he met Fulgrim. Doesn't matter. As far as I'm concerned, the witch tried at some point to stop/dissuade the Emperor from His plan, and got his butt kicked in the process. And even if he is stronger than he was ten thousand years ago, the Powers still obviously consider him and the rest of the Eldar as a sideshow - the Emperor still remains their greatest enemy.

AnomanderRake wrote:The universe of 40k is a giant "Just as planned!" pileup. Eldrad's come out of it still alive, despite having vastly inferior military forces and possibly inferior raw psychic strength, by virtue of...wait for it...knowing when to turn tail and run like hell.

I don't think becoming a toy of Slaanesh counts as alive at all. Even if his Spirit Stones are still active, how are the Eldar going to find the rest of him? I doubt if they'd leap into the Warp and confront Slaanesh directly just to do that. Ulthwe might, but the other Craftworlds certainly won't. Alaitoc, Biel-Tan, and Iyanden have other matters to attend to.

Torsoaril: You quoted something from the book of great evil that was written by "He Who Shall Not Be Named". None of the fluff in that despicable tome should have ever seen the light of day let alone been quoted by anyone at anytime ever.

The reality of it is this: Mortarion would rip Draigo apart. Hell he would have done it before he was granted even more power by Nurgle. Anyone who actually believes Draigo could do that is seriously kidding themselves.

What I want to see is this fight: Draigo vs Angron. Lets see how far old Draigo gets when he faces a Daemon Primarch thats been blessed by Khorne.

If I remember the story correctly during the first Battle for Armageddon Angron and 8 Bloodthirsters took on 100 Grey Knights in Terminator armor and out of all of them only 2 lived. So how far do you think Draigo by himself is actually going to get?

Tadashi wrote:
No, he's older than that. The witch knew the Emperor before He became the Emperor.

I'd like to see your source for this. I can not fight a single piece of fluff that says that Eldrad is that old.

riplikash wrote:Again, that isn't to say Eldrad is below Magnus. I think is probably far more capable of making predictions and commanding in the long run. (for example, I doubt he would have made the foolish mistake Magnus did in attempting to warn the Emperor) But in terms of pure power he isn't a behemoth like Magnus was/is.

He did make the foolish mistake of trying to reason with Fulgrim.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Reivax26 wrote:Torsoaril: You quoted something from the book of great evil that was written by "He Who Shall Not Be Named". None of the fluff in that despicable tome should have ever seen the light of day let alone been quoted by anyone at anytime ever.

The reality of it is this: Mortarion would rip Draigo apart. Hell he would have done it before he was granted even more power by Nurgle. Anyone who actually believes Draigo could do that is seriously kidding themselves.

What I want to see is this fight: Draigo vs Angron. Lets see how far old Draigo gets when he faces a Daemon Primarch thats been blessed by Khorne.

If I remember the story correctly during the first Battle for Armageddon Angron and 8 Bloodthirsters took on 100 Grey Knights in Terminator armor and out of all of them only 2 lived. So how far do you think Draigo by himself is actually going to get?

Well, Draigo supposedly faced a Bloodthirster in the Warp barehanded, crushed it, and made himself a new sword out of its axe with his mind. If we take Ward's hyperbole at face value, Draigo would eat Angron for lunch, and pick his teeth clean with the butcher's nails.

Omegus wrote:

riplikash wrote:Again, that isn't to say Eldrad is below Magnus. I think is probably far more capable of making predictions and commanding in the long run. (for example, I doubt he would have made the foolish mistake Magnus did in attempting to warn the Emperor) But in terms of pure power he isn't a behemoth like Magnus was/is.

He did make the foolish mistake of trying to reason with Fulgrim.

Which might have gone well had Eldrad acted reasonably and warned Fulgrim that the sword was influencing his mind. But no, he had to go medieval. What happened next? Fulgrim destroyed an Avatar, ripped the heart out of a Wraithlord, and sent Eldrad running for his life back into the Webway. Not to mention an entire Eldar warhost getting butchered by the Emperor's Children, and every Maiden World in the sector burnt to ashes.

Suggesting that Fulgrim's utterly perfect mind could be influence by something as minor as a Warp Xeno would have been the single stupidest thing to do to a raging narcissist like Fulgrim.

Really... I am starting to doubt Eldrad's finesse as a psyker being greater than Magnus's as well. In terms of strictly divination, sure, but in all other things, like telepathy for example? Magnus has shown far greater versatility.

Void__Dragon wrote:Suggesting that Fulgrim's utterly perfect mind could be influence by something as minor as a Warp Xeno would have been the single stupidest thing to do to a raging narcissist like Fulgrim.

Then do it diplomatically. Obviously you don't go direct, but there should have been other means to inform Fulgrim that the sword is malign than going medieval. That's the reason Humans and the Imperium don't trust the Eldar. The Eldar automatically assume Humans won't understand, and act in a way that gives them no right to complain when things don't go the way they planned because of Human interference.

No, the reason the Imperium doesn't trust the Eldar is because the Eldar are seen as treacherous. They help the Imperium defeat a foe and then turn on the survivors of the battle, trying to kill them too.

And as far as Eldrad goes, again...and get this through your heads...HE WAS A BABY PSYCHICALLY when the Heresy happened. He isn't now. It's like trying to claim Steven Hawking is stupid because he couldn't do Calculus at the age of 5. Seriously guys, enough with the elitist fanboyism about how uber the Imperium is.

There isn't enough fluff about this subject to decide either way who is more powerful. Until they flesh out Eldrad more in the backstory, we will never know. I have a feeling we will find out more about it when the new Eldar codex comes out.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:

And as far as Eldrad goes, again...and get this through your heads...HE WAS A BABY PSYCHICALLY when the Heresy happened. He isn't now.

Even if that's true, the Powers still consider him and the Eldar as just a sideshow compared to the Emperor and the Imperium. Ulthwe is located around the Cadian Gate, right? If Eldrad really is as powerful and such a threat as you suggest - after all, he should have surpassed Magnus by now and since Magnus was second only to the Emperor, and as such Eldrad should have approached the old man's level - they'd have directed Abaddon and Co. to strike Ulthwe already. But they didn't. I'm not saying Ulthwe doesn't get attacked, but the main thrust of the Forces of Chaos is through the Cadian Gate, across Segmentum Obscuris and Segmentum Solar, to Terra and the Golden Throne. So obviously, Eldrad is/was just a sideshow to the Powers.

No, you keep saying the Eldar are just a sideshow to Chaos. Show me the source.

And remember that Chaos doesn't want to kill every last human in existence. They would rather bend the will of the human race to Chaos. They are not concerned with doing that to the Eldar because they already did. That's how Slaanesh was created.

Now they are trying to do it to Mankind too.

Now since Eldrad can see the future, you don't think he could re-direct the future so Abbadon and the forces of Chaos would leave Ulthwe alone and go after someone else instead? (besides, he already punked Abbadon ). It's standard practice for him. He does that to the other races of the galaxy all the time. Including and especially the Imperium.

Also, have you heard of the battle for Haran?...yeah...that's pretty much what your talking about...Chaos going after Eldar...why? to get into undamaged parts of the Webway so they can reach every world in the Galaxy that it is connected to. Eldrad helped defeat that giant invasion through divining what Chaos was going to do.

Same thing with the Eye of Terror campaign. The only reason Cadia still exists is because Eldrad is fighting with his spirit inside a Talisman of Vaul...err...Blackstone Fortress. If he hadn't sacrificed his body to do psychic battle with Slaanesh inside that thing it would have fired on Cadia and destroyed it just like other ones did to Fularis II and the Tarantis Star, killing every living thing in the system. To fight directly with a Chaos God and still live is a pretty potent thing for an individual to do. You don't see Magnus doing that.

He is still alive because not all of his waystones that he fragmented his consiousness into have gone out. They only do that when someone's soul ceases to exist. And a few of his still burn.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:

Now since Eldrad can see the future, you don't think he could re-direct the future so Abbadon and the forces of Chaos would leave Ulthwe alone and go after someone else instead? (besides, he already punked Abbadon ). It's standard practice for him. He does that to the other races of the galaxy all the time. Including and especially the Imperium.

Thanks for proving my point. The simple fact that Eldrad could do it means that Tzeentch hasn't seen fit to turn all his attention on Eldrad. Unless, of course, you claim Eldrad is better at manipulation than Tzeentch?

Same thing with the Eye of Terror campaign. The only reason Cadia still exists is because Eldrad is fighting with his spirit inside a Talisman of Vaul...err...Blackstone Fortress. If he hadn't sacrificed his body to do psychic battle with Slaanesh inside that thing it would have fired on Cadia and destroyed it just like other ones did to Fularis II and the Tarantis Star, killing every living thing in the system.

Yeah...but you're forgetting one thing: Cadia is sacred to the Word Bearers Legion, as that world was where Lorgar's Pilgrimage ended, the so-called 'World Where Gods And Mortals Meet'. For all Abaddon's faults, he's not going to risk the Word Bearer's loyalty and support by destroying Cadia.

To fight directly with a Chaos God and still live is a pretty potent thing for an individual to do. You don't see Magnus doing that.

He is still alive because not all of his waystones that he fragmented his consiousness into have gone out. They only do that when someone's soul ceases to exist. And a few of his still burn.

I saw Magnus' father do that. The Powers had all but manifested physically through Horus, but the old man still blew them back and obliterate Horus in the process. And it was all four. Not once before and never again after the Horus Heresy had all four Powers of Chaos stop the Great Game and focus on a single person. Not even Eldrad made them do it. Magnus IS and remains the Emperor's son. Therefore, he's stronger and more powerful than Eldrad, seeing as the Emperor ultimately intended to have Magnus seize control of the Webway via the Golden Throne (this last part is my own conjecture - the Golden Throne was probably a 'master control' of sorts once completed, allowing its user to lockdown, extend, open, repair, and control the Webway from Terra).

Void__Dragon wrote:Suggesting that Fulgrim's utterly perfect mind could be influence by something as minor as a Warp Xeno would have been the single stupidest thing to do to a raging narcissist like Fulgrim.

Really... I am starting to doubt Eldrad's finesse as a psyker being greater than Magnus's as well. In terms of strictly divination, sure, but in all other things, like telepathy for example? Magnus has shown far greater versatility.

Fulgrim didn't think he was perfect; that's a misinterpretation of his character. His Primarch vice was the pursuit of perfection, not an actual belief that he was perfect.

Honestly, Magnus is a better example of a character who genuinely believed that he was perfect and infallible.

To use High School cliches as metaphors, Fulgrim is the douchebag jock who's really popular and gets all the bitches. He prances around acting like he's the gak, and he bullies all the nerds and socially awkward kids. But deep down, his douche-baggery is actually his attempt to hide the fact that he suffers from severe self-esteem issues, self-esteem issues that he possesses because his parents are going through a divorce and he knows that he's dumb as a brick.

Magnus is the hyper-intelligent exchange student from China who has zero people skills and gets bullied and treated like gak constantly. The other kids treat him like a pariah because his talents are so unique that they set him apart from the rest of them. In order to keep his sanity, the boy takes comfort in the fact that he's a billion times smarter than all of his peers. Over time he embraces this superiority and becomes arrogant and self-absorbed and despises everyone around him because of how they treated him.

That's basically the two characters in a nut-shell. Fulgrim surrounds himself with perfection because deep down he wants to be perfect but knows that he isn't.

Magnus is a narcissist because he's been smarter than everyone around him since forever, and the only way he can justify their dislike of him is by believing that they're all morons who don't understand his superiority.

They're both tragic in their own way.

BlaxicanX wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:Suggesting that Fulgrim's utterly perfect mind could be influence by something as minor as a Warp Xeno would have been the single stupidest thing to do to a raging narcissist like Fulgrim.

Really... I am starting to doubt Eldrad's finesse as a psyker being greater than Magnus's as well. In terms of strictly divination, sure, but in all other things, like telepathy for example? Magnus has shown far greater versatility.

Fulgrim didn't think he was perfect; that's a misinterpretation of his character. His Primarch vice was the pursuit of perfection, not an actual belief that he was perfect.

Honestly, if any of the Primarchs genuinely thought they were perfect, it would be Magnus.

And Horus to a certain extent. But can you blame the two? Both were the Emperor's finest students: Magnus in psychic brilliance, and Horus as a leader.

Horus is kind of a frustrating character to read, mainly because he's been inconsistently written. I don't really think he suffers from narcicism nor illusions of grandeur (pre-fall to Chaos anyway). If he had genuinely believed that he was perfect and could do no wrong, he wouldn't have been so stressed out as Warmaster. There were several points in his time as the Man that he doubted his ability to succeed, with the Interex situation being the biggest clue to that. Initially, Horus was willing to die rather than make war on the Interex. Even after Erebus set-off the war between them, and the Interex had killed off many of the Luna Wolves, Horus felt that the meltdown between the Interex and the Luna Wolves was his fault, and at first he was still willing to sit down and try to talk things out. Someone with a perfectionist complex would not have felt that way, especially considering that, as Warmaster, he could have chosen to destroy the Interex right from the beginning, and no one would have censured him for it.

So I don't really think Horus suffered from the same thing Magnus suffers from. He was written in the first two books to be a very empathetic character who, while possessing arrogance, still had doubts about himself. It wasn't until False Gods that he became a murderous, narcissistic ass. A really extreme character change there, I think McNeil handled his fall very poorly.

Tadashi wrote:

Thanks for proving my point. The simple fact that Eldrad could do it means that Tzeentch hasn't seen fit to turn all his attention on Eldrad. Unless, of course, you claim Eldrad is better at manipulation than Tzeentch?


Yeah...but you're forgetting one thing: Cadia is sacred to the Word Bearers Legion, as that world was where Lorgar's Pilgrimage ended, the so-called 'World Where Gods And Mortals Meet'. For all Abaddon's faults, he's not going to risk the Word Bearer's loyalty and support by destroying Cadia.

This thread should be dead by now...

Tadashi, I don't even pretend to understand your first point. How is saying that Eldrad can manipulate commanders or high ranking officials of other races to better suit Eldar needs equivalent to claiming he's better than Tzeentch at manipulation? And I thought Slaanesh was the only one interested in Eldar and DE... Prove me wrong here by all means.

As for Cadia, do you have a source saying Abbadon wouldn't have destroyed Cadia using the Blackstone fortress?

Code Eldar, P51:" Eldrad lead a foray into Abbadon's greatest weapon ship: ... a Blackstone fortress poised to destroy the Human world of Cadia"

Lord Rogukiel wrote:

Tadashi, I don't even pretend to understand your first point. How is saying that Eldrad can manipulate commanders or high ranking officials of other races to better suit Eldar needs equivalent to claiming he's better than Tzeentch at manipulation? And I thought Slaanesh was the only one interested in Eldar and DE... Prove me wrong here by all means.

My point was that even if Eldrad is stronger now than he was then, he still wasn't strong enough to warrant the complete and undivided attention of the four Powers.

As for Cadia, do you have a source saying Abbadon wouldn't have destroyed Cadia using the Blackstone fortress?

Code Eldar, P51:" Eldrad lead a foray into Abbadon's greatest weapon ship: ... a Blackstone fortress poised to destroy the Human world of Cadia"

I grafted the information from the Horus Heresy novels with the fluff of the 13th Black Crusade. Cadia is sacred to the Word Bearers due to the fact that's where Lorgar's Pilgrimage ended. Destroy it, and you'll piss the Word Bearers off seriously. Not even Abaddon would be stupid enough to alienate the largest of the Traitor Legions just because he was irritated at Cadia's stubborn resistance.