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PURGE THE WITCH...oh they've got nice shiny guns we could use...and those psychic powers are alright..well I suppose witches aren't THAT bad...

I honestly am more in favour of an expanded FOC for the Tyranids instead of allies. Or at least some way to stop the stupidity that is "the imperial guard can outnumber us, easily too." That shouldn't happen damn it!

Only if at the start of each 'nid player turn, they roll a dice.
On a 6 the 'nid player must immediately attack his allies with everything possible.

marv335 wrote:Only if at the start of each 'nid player turn, they roll a dice.
On a 6 the 'nid player must immediately attack his allies with everything possible.

Why punish the nids even more then they already are? They already have the single weakest 5th edition codex.

He forgot the other half of the rule. On a 1 they have to attack not their allies but their own units.

No. There is no reason anyone would ally with the galaxy's great devourer. Plus, how would one go about diplomacy with a race with no known language?

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:No. There is no reason anyone would ally with the galaxy's great devourer. Plus, how would one go about diplomacy with a race with no known language?

With Bacon.

They'd eat you with the bacon though. Really the bacon would just be more incentive for them to attack you in the first place.

I meant glue in onto the enemy after all why eat your allies when your enemies are covered in bacon

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:No. There is no reason anyone would ally with the galaxy's great devourer. Plus, how would one go about diplomacy with a race with no known language?

You could make the same argument about several of these new "ally" match ups. What makes Tyranids so different?

Kurgash wrote:Any gaming group that openly allows allies to happen needs to be clubbed in the face with an angry cat.

Kurgash wrote:perhaps I should elaborate. I meant on league play, tournaments and such.

Even so, let a friendly tournament run the rules how they want. If Nid's don't get buffed as much as people (who play Tyranids) hope then I wouldn't mind letting them so long as they have a good enough back story

H.B.M.C. wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:No. There is no reason anyone would ally with the galaxy's great devourer. Plus, how would one go about diplomacy with a race with no known language?

You could make the same argument about several of these new "ally" match ups. What makes Tyranids so different?

Other races know how to communicate and have fluff basis for allying. Dark Eldar and Eldar? Does happen occasionally. Imperium and Eldar? Happens. Imperium and Orks? Yeah. Blood Angels and Necrons? Happened.

Tyranids? They don't communicate verbally, any weak psyker in a few lightyears of the Shadow in the War becomes a gibbering wreak or worse, and powerful psykers are spending too much time trying to not have their head explode.

They don't communicate, haven't been shown to since Zoats which are retconned out, and have no fluff basis for allying outside of Genestealer Cults. Which wouldn't involve any Tyranids outside of Genestealers. Attempts to control them have been met by failure.

There's literally no fluff basis for allying anyone with Tyranids outside of Genestealer Cults. There literally is fluff basis for other races allying.

Their backstory would have to be pretty convincing for me to be comfortable with it. It would have to appear to be more than just a contrived reason to include allies.

I honestly don't think allies are going to be nearly as powerful as many people seem to think. I imagine there will be an early rash of hybrid armies with "broken combos", which quickly die out as people get over the initial excitement and realise that single-codex armies are more powerful. Then, allies will be used primarily as intended: to allow armies to fit fluff conceptions. Nowhere in the fluff are there alliances between Tyranids and anyone else, so I doubt we'll see Tyranid armies wanting to use them.

Genestealer Cults are a special case, but it's irrelevant since you can't actually run a Genestealer Cult using the Tyranid book anyway. There will be fandexes for that, and I daresay those will allow some degree of Imperial Guard allies at the least.

Well if Daemons of Slaanesh or the Emperor's Children can ally with the Dark Eldar despite there being a million and a half reasons for them not to...

Kain wrote:Well if Daemons of Slaanesh or the Emperor's Children can ally with the Dark Eldar despite there being a million and a half reasons for them not to...

Mandrakes are rmoured to be part daemon. So, you know, daemons and Dark Eldar have precedent. Dark Eldar and Emperors Children I seem to have missed. But hey, Dark Eldar would really ally with anyone if they gave them enough slaves in return.

Kain wrote:Well if Daemons of Slaanesh or the Emperor's Children can ally with the Dark Eldar despite there being a million and a half reasons for them not to...

The Dark Eldar book is also supposed to cover DE Slaaneshi cults...

If it's only amongst friends then, why be a rule-lawyer? It's not gonna ruin the game, is it? At most, I'd have my friend explain why x army would cooperate with the nids, essentially asking him/her to talk the ally he/she chose to be battle-brothers, if he/she failed, then it has to use the bad alliance rule.

Unless you mean a friendly game with a stranger, then..hmm... I'd ask for an explanation as to why that alliance would happen, if he/she says "because GK are cool", then no, if he/she has the humour to make up something funny and interesting, then go ahead, it can't hurt. This but a game for fun, not a game where you either win or you die.

In short, yes, but requires some homebrew lore from the nids player, but more I'll be more lenient for a friend.

Baronyu wrote:If it's only amongst friends then, why be a rule-lawyer? It's not gonna ruin the game, is it?

Don't get me wrong. I've got no problems with a friend wanting to run an army allied with Tyranids. Just that people saying the fluff behind a Tyranid/someone else alliance has as much precedence in fluff as other alliances they're allowing. It simply doesn't.

1. Im sure gamesworkshop can pull a reason for nids to ally if they want too.

From what i understand Dark eldar and eldar is pretty much a NO NO fluff wise ...

Mabey allied guard are stealer cult or hive mind is controlling people or directing psychers,

In any instance i hope nids get compensation if they can't extra force org mabey?? but this isn't enough IMO, other armies are sill able to pick units cross codex's, supplementing there weaknesses with the strengths of others. I don't think being able to just take MORE! is as worth while as having access to some of the best units of a type in the game.

Nids don't exactly have the best stuff in their dex. But im sure gamesworkshop have fully thought through the issue and have a solution up their sleeve.

We will see soon! (very excited for new release)

And i have a feeling allies will end up being friendly games only, i will gladly place nids with allies (so long as it does not look like desperate cheese, but with a mainly nid army that will be hard =P)

khaosspacemarines wrote:From what i understand Dark eldar and eldar is pretty much a NO NO fluff wise ...

Dark Eldar kill and torture their cousins to gain power and for pleasure, but I definitely think they'd work together if the situation was deemed necessary. Communication between them would definitely not be unreasonable to agree to hit the same location. If they're CLOSE allies I think that's stupid. Though I'll probably use it if I can ring out a good enough story. Maybe something about an army damaging the Webway in the future, which would effect both the space elves.

I don't care what anyone says:

Take a Tyranid army and ally some basic elements of Imperial Guard, calling them "Mind-Slaves". Back in 1st and 2nd edition mind-slaves retained nearly all of their faculties, they were just, err....slaves.

Take an Imperial Guard army and ally a Broodlord and some Genestealers and call it a Genestealer Cult. The whole point of a Genestealer cult is to A: get big enough that the patriarch can be a focus on that planet for the Hive to home in on, and B: destabilize the planetary defenses during the following invasion. A big enough cult could conceivably have access to PDF troops and equipment, because the troops are all thralls.

Obviously each option would be converted to taste, not just off the shelf Tyranids and Cadians mixing it up.

I come from a time in GW's (and 40K's) past where that would be an absolute no-brainer. Sometimes I am thankful for that, sometimes I regret all the nostalgia I'll never see replicated nowadays because of current players and what "got ret-conned out".

I'd allow Imperial Guard allies...maybe Tau. My group is pretty laid back.

As for fluff reasons, those are easy. Genestealer infiltration, mind control, and so on. After Ba allied with Necrons when they were still unfeeling omnicidal maniacs and Draigo got to stroll through the Warp wearing only light sunscreen, we can safely say the fluff will bend in any direction required.

Baronyu wrote:If it's only amongst friends then, why be a rule-lawyer?

When and how did not allowing something expressly disallowed in the rules become rules lawyering?

kadeton wrote:I imagine there will be an early rash of hybrid armies with "broken combos", which quickly die out as people get over the initial excitement and realise that single-codex armies are more powerful. Then, allies will be used primarily as intended: to allow armies to fit fluff conceptions.

Given that players don't seem to have grown bored with fielding the same Purifier/Venom/Razorback/Whatever-spam lists throughout 5th edition, I fear you're being rather optimistic. The GW studio's principle behind providing rules for alliances may well have been to allow more options to players who want variety and fluff. As an unintended consequence, however, said rules will also provide more opportunities for powergaming by combining lists' strengths. Given that we're talking about a professionally-produced set of rules, we should be able to expect better.

English Assassin wrote:

Baronyu wrote:If it's only amongst friends then, why be a rule-lawyer?

When and how did not allowing something expressly disallowed in the rules become rules lawyering?

Well, all I meant is just that why be so serious if you're playing with your friends? I mean, is it gonna hurt? Like I said, if it really bothers you, make them give you an explanation, should they fail that either say no to alliance or have them use the bad alliance rules.

I'm just the kind of player who doesn't see the need to say "But it's not in the rulebook, so it's not allowed.", when playing with friends, given they aren't saying they wanna field 17 dreads or something as nids' ally, and roll 1+ to wound with 72" range shooting at AP minus 10.

clively wrote:No.

Im pretty sure the reason Nids aren't getting allies is because they are the one army that won't need them.

Ok why will they not need it? You telling me GK/SW need help?

Kanluwen wrote:

Jihadnik wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

Kurgash wrote:Any gaming group that openly allows allies to happen needs to be clubbed in the face with an angry cat.

If we were to use that logic, we can extend it to any rule in the rulebook.

That seems difficult. How would you keep it from scratching you when you pick it up?

You could glue it to a broom stick?

OT - I wouldn't want Tyranids having allies either, I just can't imagine it making sense and I like my games to at least pretend to have some sort of narrative. If someone could make up a story like they were manipulated with cybernetic implants or...actually...that would probably do it...dang...

I guess I would then...but I wouldn't have to like it!

There's an entire storyline about this in Imperial Armour 4.

Spoiler:

It didn't work and they ate everyone.

Maybe the cats holding a club.

No one would ally with the great devourer and the nids would be incapable of forming such an alliance they would have no concept of it.

I guess if they tell me thei story behind it. However I'd be more accepting of someone with another army using Tyranids as their allies. If only because I like the idea of Chaos infected Tyranids (in fact when I build a Chaos army I'm using Tyranids as Horrors of Tzeentch).

I would not allow it unless sufficient justification is given and correct units are taken.

For example, to all of the people who are like JUST ALLY WITH GUARD LOL!!1!! OMG, I have a few things to say:

1) You would not benefit from orders, ever, period. Genestealer Cult basic training != guard basic training.

2) You would not benefit from standards, ever, period. Genestealer Cults do not carry flags to battle.

3) You would not get many special weapons, as Genestealer Cults are not as well equipped as the Imperial Guard

4) Without some really really wacky fluff, you would not get access to vehicles outside of the basic Chimera IFV, and even that is iffy.

As far as the Tyranid side:

1) Any unit other than the mandatory HQ and Genestealers is not permitted, because the Swarm has obviously not arrived yet.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:No. There is no reason anyone would ally with the galaxy's great devourer. Plus, how would one go about diplomacy with a race with no known language?

You could make the same argument about several of these new "ally" match ups. What makes Tyranids so different?

Tyranids wouldn't ally with anyone. They would just hold off one while eating the other. How can you make a deal with someone whose communication is strictly psychic and biochemical?

Speaking of screwy alliances, I think the Dark Angels and Space Wolves should have been taken down a notch. They haven't liked each other for over a thousand years. Why, all of a sudden, are they battle brothers?

I would allow nids to have allies yes.

Who is to say that the hive mind isn't trying out some new kind of infectious airborne mind control parsites or spores? Or perhaps a new powerfull zoanthrope genus has been bred that can take psychic control of a large mass of targets and bend them to the hive's will?

It's all good in the end so long as your opponent isnt actively trying to break the game/abuse the rules. All this moaning about: But they would never be allies, no way! shows to me a fundemental lack of creativity.

I for one welcome the oppertunity to include some allies. It will make for an interresting battle. And as an ork player I welcome any and all oppertunities to: Git stuck in wiff a good proppa foight! WAAAGH!