Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If Jetbikes get Hammer of Wrath.... I can see the Shining Spears being awesome. Give them their +1 A they have been missing... then they can really hit and run!

I have some hopes for Eldar FAQ, for instance:
Pathfinders will be able to allocate wounds on 5+.
SH Intercept will allow hitting the fliers on 4+.
Let's not kid ourselves, there will be no major changes to Guardians or Dire Avengers.

It's too bad that there are no good bonuses that we can share between battle brothers. Fortune / guide are Eldar only. Markerlights are Tau only. Can DE give us anything?
IoM can easily benefit from our RoW, Vulkan, Sang Priests, OotF etc.

[I don't want to go on a whinefest, but it doesn't look good people. Of course nothing can compare to Tyranids and their allies. If there is no balancing factor GW really, really dropped the ball there. I won't be mentioning them but I really want to hug the bug players]
I feel like all troops in other armies are getting some kind of boost: no-retreat gone is huge for orks and a nice bonus for SMs, rapid fire for everybody bar Orks. Our already not so great troops gained nothing from general rules. Mechdar gets with 3+ to hit in CC. In shooting Jinx balances itself nicely with HP, at least I think it does, but Warwalkers will die a bit too fast.
Rangers are cool addition but nothing spectacular. 10 will get 2 sixes (let's be generous), one of those will wound and there is still 4+ Look Out Sir and possible cover. 50% from 190 point unit is not that great.
This isn't the end of the world (for mechdar it may be), but it won't get any easier.
The one good thing from vehicle nerf is that in our next book we may get a significant discount on vehicles.

DE gives us Web Way Portals. Reserve units and bring them on mid field. Great for Footdar.

I agree, I really do love my Eldar, but 6th looks like it's going to hit them hard.

The OP's summed it up excellently, but what I'm most off about is that everyone else is gaining our traits - the things that made Eldar Eldar.

Firstly, with this whole new Flier-Craze, and rumours about more coming out, everyone else will have fast vehicles. Secondly, everyone else is getting Shiny New Psychic Powers, which are probably going to be very good. It also annoys me that Eldar, probably the most potent psykers in the galaxy, have access to only 2 of these New Disciplines, where as the Space Marines, the pathetic human beings whose minds are so weak and easily corrupted that their largest threat is themselves, get access to all 5 *spits on ground*. Finally, and what really, really, makes me mad is this whole Allies system. Many people will, as the OP says, take a Farseer (or Eldrad, if it's allowed) and some Rangers/other stuff, but will never actually use Eldar armies. It's disgraceful. Then there's all the other stuff, like nerfs on Vehicles, Rapid Fire being improved, Fleet being nerfed etc, etc, etc, etc, etc

Yeah, I guess there's a few hopes. It'd be nice to possibly be able to field Warp Spiders and Shining Spears, Rangers get a cool boost, and who knows, maybe FootDar will begin to reign supreme. And hey, maybe the Erratas will rectify Holofields and all the other stuff that's been stomped by the Marine-Shaped Boot of GW. And the biggest light of hope is the possibility/rumours of a new codex in early 2013. And, I tell you, it better make the Eldar able to crush entire units with Psychic might, or zoom across the battlefield in a turn, to cancel out all these nerfs we've been dealt.

So, you may find me OTT, but I really do love the Eldar and, although I will keep playing them, I hate to lose the comfort and power I've felt with using them these past few years. And if it doesn't work out, I'll possibly just slink back into the cosy refines of WHFB, where the Eldar's Pointy-Eared Counterparts still have the Speed and Magical Supremacy they deserve.

/rant

jbunny wrote:DE gives us Web Way Portals. Reserve units and bring them on mid field. Great for Footdar.

IMO this is the future of Eldar.

really frustrating that I have 12 armor12 vehicles....whatever tho ill go feth myself.

That was my thought as well, until someone with a rulebook over on BOLS said that units can only assault if they started on the board at the beginning of the turn.

I wonder if av12 fast skimmers will end up being that bad.
I guess they might feel overcosted. I do like the new autocover, I wonder how that is supposed to interact with DE Flicker Fields..

I also get the feeling that the amount of str 6 fire that can be bought in a mech eldar list is going to be quite a boon.

I think av13 firing from over 24 will feel pretty safe, I wonder if the same will go for av12 with a jink. I guess 135ish point missile falcons don't sound all that awful. You could also be trying to get within 24 with them and really kill the crap out of something with the addition of a shuriken cannon, but it's probably not very cost effective at that kind of range.

Hahhaa you guys can all just make scythe spam lists if you want something that feels similar.Torrents are not as important in 6th (when cover gets crappier, AP weaponry gets better), but boy, those 5 average hits are going to be murder with the glance rules and the AP- buff. Not to mention gauss squads and stormteks are going to be feeling a lot more like little groups of fire dragons.

You are getting something like 4.5 hits at str6 with a scatter/shuricannon serpent at 24 range, and what I believe will be a little more survivability at 125 points. Just a matter of figuring out what good the rest of your army is doing. I don't think Serpents are going to be the draw anymore, unless tank shocking is nuts or we get something else that is awesome. Barring that, if serpents are your ace, and you don't have a lot of tricks built into your list, I think you could just be playing a more efficient army elsewhere at this point.

So I've been playing wraithguard. I haven't kept up on rumours, the though being I would just go over the book when I get it. So as far as wraithguard go, how does overwatch look for them?

Smitty0305 wrote:

jbunny wrote:DE gives us Web Way Portals. Reserve units and bring them on mid field. Great for Footdar.

IMO this is the future of Eldar.

Yeah, but somehow, I doubt that Allies will be able to make use of the main army's Rules or Equipment, or vice versa. I mean, it just makes sense. Sure, Eldar coming from a Webway Portal doesn't seem that strange, but what if the DE were Allied with Orks, or SM? Orks, coming from a Webway Portal?! I thought the Webway Portal led to Commoragh?

TheHarleqwin wrote:So I've been playing wraithguard. I haven't kept up on rumours, the though being I would just go over the book when I get it. So as far as wraithguard go, how does overwatch look for them?

Not great, I don't think. Mostly because Wraithguard Units are relatively small. With 10, shooting off BS1 with Overwatch, statistically only 1.666... will hit. That's not great when you're being charged by 30 Ork Boyz.

I think the sharing of rules would rely on the "battle brothers" designations.

Something else Ive just learned could be a Pro for 6th Edition Eldar (sorry if this has been said already): At 2000pts, you can use 2 FoCs. So, while other armies can take a Farseer, they can't take 4

Macok wrote:
[I don't want to go on a whinefest, but it doesn't look good people. Of course nothing can compare to Tyranids and their allies. If there is no balancing factor GW really, really dropped the ball there. I won't be mentioning them but I really want to hug the bug players]

HUG ME.

The Shadow wrote:It also annoys me that Eldar, probably the most potent psykers in the galaxy, have access to only 2 of these New Disciplines, where as the Space Marines, the pathetic human beings whose minds are so weak and easily corrupted that their largest threat is themselves, get access to all 5 *spits on ground*.

Yes, it's ridiculous. One can only hope that the Eldar get certain unique bonuses or something. Secondly; 'biomancy' isn't even unique to Tyranids (because Space Marines get it - hell, the IMPERIAL GUARD get it!), and even though the bugs are "the other psykers", they still don't get access to much. It's just somewhat frustrating. Fluff-wise, I'd say Librarians get Divination and Pyromancy, because all they do is divine and blow stuff up (It's also kind of amusing that the Grey Knights - THE psykerMarines - get fewer schools than Blood Angels do). However, like biomancy should be for Tyranids, divination should probably be unique to the Eldar. Because, you know, it's their thing. What next? Space Marines with shuriken-catapult bioweapons, toxin sacs and Banshee masks? Neither of us can complain as much as the one person who plays Chaos Daemons, though. The Warp-spawn get no Warp abilities. I... I don't even.

However, I take solace in the minor buff given to Monstrous Creatures. But one can only shudder to think what horrors the rules have in store for them and their ilk...

MadCowCrazy, via the 6E rumour sticky wrote:Forging a Narrative
In 40k there's nothing more important than being able to tell a story as you play, or as we've called it in the rulebook, Forging a Narrative. With that in mind, there are a number of rules to accommodate how individual models can make a difference to the battle without bogging the game down. Some of these rules are quite subtle, such as characters being able to pick out individual targets; others are more obvious and integral to the game, like challenging your opponent to a duel.

Have you ever imagined how cool it would be to bring down a Monstrous Creature by throwing a krak grenade into its mouth? Well, you can!

I might just be being paranoid, but this fills me with a little dread. What, instantly kill my 6-wound Trygon by rolling a 6 To Hit with a grenade? How much are krak grenades, 5pts? Free? Do you know how much Monstrous Creatures cost? Also, what about the ones that don't even have mouths? Like AHEM DREADKNIGHT AHEM NOT A WALKER.

The only good thing from this is the potential to turn Genestealer Broodlords into a cheap cannon:

"Vortex of Doom, warp charge 2, range 12". Vortex of doom is a Witchfire power with the following profile - S10 AP1, Heavy1, Blast* *If the psychic test is failed centre the template on the psyker, it does not scatter." . That Infiltrating and/or Outflanking? Yes, please.

EDIT: Oh, yeah, also; the allies are ridiculous. I wouldn't want Tyranids to ally. But if they can't, how come Necrons can? Orks can? Why are Eldar and Dark Eldar "Brothers in Arms"? Orks and Chaos Marines, and Tau, and Necron - not BiA, but why even at all? These are not things that grudgingly ally with each other. This makes no sense.

My favourite? Sisters of Battle hate Marines, especially the Black Templars, despite the BT and the SoBs being absolute bros because they both hate them some xenos with holy fury. Speaking of - Black Templars and Eldar? In other words, the single most xenophobic Chapter allied with aliens? Oh, why can't Grey Knights ally with Daemons, then? Other than the fact that that'd boost daemons. But most Marines can't ally with Orks... and GK can.

Also, the paradox of the Imperial Guard. "Grudging Allies" of Chaos, but "Brothers in Arms" to Imperial factions. Obviously the "BiA" represents Imperial Guard. One can only assume the 'allied with Chaos' guard are in fact, Traitor Guardsmen. In which case, why "Grudging Allies"? This is just a way to screw over Chaos Marines yet again; loyalists get Imperial support, but Chaos get crappy Chaos support. At least they have daemons again, but that's kind of no consolation.

The possible excuses for most of these are ridiculous, in of themselves, from a fluff standpoint. Therefore, why not y'know, Guard and Tyranids? Because screw canon! Or stretch belief by saying "Everything is Genestealer cult". Not that I particularly want allies (I will never use them in any army I play except maybe Chaos x Daemons or something), but it seems like Tyranids were shafted on purpose, considering that yes, no Tyranid allies makes sense... but the rest does not. I'm glad to see that the Blood Angels aren't Super Unicorn Princess Best Friends Forever with Necrons, even though "Grudging Allies" is freaking stupid for the Necrons, but since the retcron they're people now so whatever.

ALSO DAEMONS AND ELDAR LAWL.

steinerp wrote:That was my thought as well, until someone with a rulebook over on BOLS said that units can only assault if they started on the board at the beginning of the turn.

Ok well then good thing I can bring 4 Farseers and 18 war walkers and laugh as I table every army in 2 turns.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lucre wrote:I wonder if av12 fast skimmers will end up being that bad.
I guess they might feel overcosted. I do like the new autocover, I wonder how that is supposed to interact with DE Flicker Fields..

I also get the feeling that the amount of str 6 fire that can be bought in a mech eldar list is going to be quite a boon.

I think av13 firing from over 24 will feel pretty safe, I wonder if the same will go for av12 with a jink. I guess 135ish point missile falcons don't sound all that awful. You could also be trying to get within 24 with them and really kill the crap out of something with the addition of a shuriken cannon, but it's probably not very cost effective at that kind of range.

Hahhaa you guys can all just make scythe spam lists if you want something that feels similar.Torrents are not as important in 6th (when cover gets crappier, AP weaponry gets better), but boy, those 5 average hits are going to be murder with the glance rules and the AP- buff. Not to mention gauss squads and stormteks are going to be feeling a lot more like little groups of fire dragons.

You are getting something like 4.5 hits at str6 with a scatter/shuricannon serpent at 24 range, and what I believe will be a little more survivability at 125 points. Just a matter of figuring out what good the rest of your army is doing. I don't think Serpents are going to be the draw anymore, unless tank shocking is nuts or we get something else that is awesome. Barring that, if serpents are your ace, and you don't have a lot of tricks built into your list, I think you could just be playing a more efficient army elsewhere at this point.

Are you volunteering to buy and build and paint a gold and blue necron army for me? can I just have 9 war walkers?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

The Shadow wrote:Something else Ive just learned could be a Pro for 6th Edition Eldar (sorry if this has been said already): At 2000pts, you can use 2 FoCs. So, while other armies can take a Farseer, they can't take 4

O good 18 War Walkers rofl.

couple points that haven;t been made.

1. Farseers have the two best lores. One of them ideplicates a lot of the eldar psychic powers. The default for telepathy is guide by another name. That said, farseers are important. Doom and DE and the crazy amount of posion shots might be the strongest combo in the gamenow that you can pop trasnports so quickly.

2. Waveserpents. AV12 transports are pretty much as goodas you get and we have one with 2 weapons. Note if you run the math 2 x 3 shot S6 weapons statistically kills a rhino a turn. So are waveserpents the beast they used to be? No, but they are actually good compared to a lot of tansports now and the rules are perfec for their weapon payload.

3. FIRE PRISMS - Yes. You no longer need the hole to be on a vehicle for the blast template to be full strength. So fire prisms are really good at parking lot busting. It's also much harder to stop a fire prism from shooting with stun glance being harder toget

4. Harlies - The rending is good again due to the new wound allocation rules. Also haywires are really good, so look towrad grenade launchers and haywire grenades.

5. artillery are T7 2w now. They might be more viable

6. autarches on jetbikes. zoom "48 is interesting with a fusion gun, he can also be pretty good in hth. also with reserves starting on 3+ you are pretty much guarnteed to get what you want in.

7. scorps with hay wires maybe? It's unclear if you can throw haywire grenades, but we will have to wait for FAQ

8. fire dragons are hard to deploy now.... you can only ever disembark if the vehicle only moved 6"... so you would have to zoom up the turn before, then move the tank, disembark and shoot. kind of a screw you to fast armies

9. hth against vehicles is basically 3+ to hit, so eldar tanks are really vulnerable to charges now.

10. see councils seem dead.

deFl0 wrote:
2. Waveserpents. AV12 transports are pretty much as goodas you get and we have one with 2 weapons. Note if you run the math 2 x 3 shot S6 weapons statistically kills a rhino a turn. So are waveserpents the beast they used to be? No, but they are actually good compared to a lot of tansports now and the rules are perfec for their weapon payload.

3. FIRE PRISMS - Yes. You no longer need the hole to be on a vehicle for the blast template to be full strength. So fire prisms are really good at parking lot busting. It's also much harder to stop a fire prism from shooting with stun glance being harder toget

8. fire dragons are hard to deploy now.... you can only ever disembark if the vehicle only moved 6"... so you would have to zoom up the turn before, then move the tank, disembark and shoot. kind of a screw you to fast armies

2 & 3 - Good to note that apparently Fast Skimmers can move 12" in Mvmt and then 18" in the shooting phase instead of shooting... so the mobility is at it's utmost now. The only thing I am honestly worried about is the availability of Skyfire and flakk missiles....

#8 - Apparently you get to disembark 6" from access point though, so it's not a huge difference, and also the FD won't be the only AT in the list anymore because of the beauty of Hull Points, so you shouldnt have to suicide squad them anymore

deFl0 wrote:couple points that haven;t been made.

4. Harlies - The rending is good again due to the new wound allocation rules. Also haywires are really good, so look towrad grenade launchers and haywire grenades.

...

7. scorps with hay wires maybe? It's unclear if you can throw haywire grenades, but we will have to wait for FAQ

Neither of these units have haywire grenades, only Autarchs and Swooping Hawks do.

deFl0 wrote:10. see councils seem dead.

Warlocks with Destructor auto-hitting 1d3 in overwatch/snap-fire would like a word with you.

Not to mention you can't nerf fortuned Invulnerable saves. and when they get on their jetbikes... things get awesome. Jetbikes are getting a pretty good buff.

steinerp wrote:
[/list][list] Flyers, unless you play with Forgeworld we have no anti-aircraft weapons

After reading the actual book...

It looks like you can always buy an aegis wall with a gun emplacement for 100 points or less. Interceptor (shoot when it arrives) and skyfire (use regular BS), and twin-linking also possible. Put an exarch on the trigger for BS5.

Also it looks like all our exarchs get to allocate the wound when they roll a 6 to hit. That makes exarchs who get a lot of shots (DA with twin cats) or exarchs who can get crack shot (ignore cover) especially interesting...

Is that a squad leader rule, or have something to do with BS5?

It's a character rule. Any character who rolls a 6 to hit gets to allocate that hit. Shooting or close combat.

This also applies to death jesters.

Asurmen with his free rerolls to hit gets a little boost on that count.

Also you don't really need an autarch for reserve bonuses anymore, since reserve rolls are now 3+ on turn 2&3, then automatic on turn 4. If you really want the +1 for reserves, it's cheaper than a basic autarch to get an aegis wall with comms relay to reroll you reserves rolls. And it doesn't use up a HQ slot.

Eldar bikes have been buffed.

While their 3+ turbo-boost save has been nurfed, their total speed has increased

I hear they have hammer of wrath too, which will help seer councils.

How about the Seer Council? What I've heard here is that it gets weaker. Some comments please? (I'll pick up the rulebook on Monday).

It looks like all bikes have been boosted in that they just add +1 to base toughness now, no different toughness value for purposes of instant death.

So a farseer/autarch on a bike isn't instajibbed by T6 shots anymore.

But, according to the FAQ that came out this morning, Harlies veil of tears is replaced by stealth and shrouding :(

Flavius Infernus wrote:It looks like all bikes have been boosted in that they just add +1 to base toughness now, no different toughness value for purposes of instant death.

So a farseer/autarch on a bike isn't instajibbed by T6 shots anymore.

But, according to the FAQ that came out this morning, Harlies veil of tears is replaced by stealth and shrouding :(

I like the speed options they have. 12" move combined with a 24" turbo boost. I also saw they can move again in the assault phase (unsure if they can do this after turbo-boosting)

While eldar bikes may not have much shooty, they have a lot of movement. This might be extremely important, depending on how objectives play out.

Eldar jetbikes can either take a 12" move and 2d6 assault move, or a 36" turbo. Eldar in general might also benefit from speed in the way that the new wound allocation rules work.

People will tend to put the valuable models at the back of the unit, and Eldar units like jetbikes have the mobility to zoom around the back of the unit and shoot. Even shuriken catapults can do the job if you're just trying to snipe the missile guy or whatever.

Well, mech Eldar seems to get nerfed a bit.

Eldar vehicles are now easier to take down:
(1) 3 hull points means 3 glancing hits and the vehicle is gone,
(2) in cc vehicles are always hit on 3+.

On the other hand, shooting with a Serpent or a Falcon is now a bit more dangerous for the enemy, since fast vehicles can move 12'' and shoot 2 weapons (as far as I know).

Warp spiders still have an ignore armor saves weapon. Lol

pretre wrote:Warp spiders still have an ignore armor saves weapon. Lol

Warp Spiders are a very vulnerable unit that they always were. But I know one can do crazy things with them.

Like I said in another topic. The FAQ is just disappointing.
Changing working VoT and leaving Intercept and Surprise Assault? That's just sad.