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Flavius Infernus wrote:With overwatch, probably nobody's going to want to charge a unit of 20 guardians.

If it's true that AP2 adds +1 to the vehicle damage table, Wraithcannons, brightlances and pulse lasers (and starcannons) all get an antitank bonus.

Depending on how artillery rules have been changed, batteries of dirt-cheap shadow weaver shots, with the whole template now str6 against vehicles, might become a decent choice again.

Even though they're expensive, starcannons might become the go-to gun again for taking down terminators.

20 Guardians kill 1 Space Marine at BS 1. That's not scary at all.


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Thanks to the person who pointed out the benefit of allying with DE giving Eldar WWP's! This had never crossed my mind. As much as the idea of "allying" DE and Eldar together make me sick, I can easily convert an Archon to be a Corsair Prince or something.

Not being able to assault out of a WWP isn't really that big of a deal since Footdar isn't awesome at assault anways. This just gives a Footdar list some more flexibility with deployment, and can help in matchups against long range gunlines that the shorter Eldar weapons have issues dealing with.

So, apparently GW can't count to 5 (I do not possess this ability either).
VoT FAQ states to replace second and third sentence and add Shrouding and Stealth. Thanks to their error VoT now gains those two abilities while loosing nothing.
I think I need to play with this FAQ fast before they will fix this (obvious) mistake.

That just made Veil of Tears even better. Especially since the part about following Warlock power rules does not matter (See further down in the FAQ about SHadowseer Psychic Mastery).

So now they have a 4+ cover save (when not in cover) AND they have to be spotted first to shoot at them.

Not sure how the spotting distance thing is going to work in the new rules though.

I also see Singing Spears being slightly better (ftm) compared to Witchblades when trying ot take out vehicles:
Witchblade - 2D6+3 armour pen
Singing Spear 9+D6 for armour pen

Too lazy to math-hammer to see what the probability to glance/pen is.

Griever wrote:
Thanks to the person who pointed out the benefit of allying with DE giving Eldar WWP's! This had never crossed my mind. As much as the idea of "allying" DE and Eldar together make me sick, I can easily convert an Archon to be a Corsair Prince or something.

Not being able to assault out of a WWP isn't really that big of a deal since Footdar isn't awesome at assault anways. This just gives a Footdar list some more flexibility with deployment, and can help in matchups against long range gunlines that the shorter Eldar weapons have issues dealing with.

keep reading, the DE faq says allies cannot come out of the WWP

Macok wrote:So, apparently GW can't count to 5 (I do not possess this ability either).
VoT FAQ states to replace second and third sentence and add Shrouding and Stealth. Thanks to their error VoT now gains those two abilities while loosing nothing.
I think I need to play with this FAQ fast before they will fix this (obvious) mistake.

Hahaha, I guess they meant "paragraph" and not "sentence." I wonder how that will play out.

my Eldar playing buddy who doesn't post on Dakka has a question about the new Eldar 6E FAQ:

"A Farseer (including Eldrad Ulthran) may use the psychic
disciplines found in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, instead of those in Codex: Eldar. If he does so, for each psychic power he has purchased from Codex: Eldar, generate a new power from either the Divination or Telepathy discipline (in any combination) before armies are deployed. Eldrad Ulthran generates four new powers."

His questions: "Does that mean Eldrad gets 3 eldar only abilities or 4 non eldar abilities? It's not very clear. Can he mix and match?"

Another question: it says for each power purchased you can generate a new power. Does that mean if I want to generate two new powers, I can buy Guide and Mind War and have the same effect as if I bought Fortune and Doom, only saving 15 points?

MandalorynOranj wrote:Another question: it says for each power purchased you can generate a new power. Does that mean if I want to generate two new powers, I can buy Guide and Mind War and have the same effect as if I bought Fortune and Doom, only saving 15 points?

yes if you plan on subbing out powers it is best to buy cheap powers in the first place.

I'm curious as to other folks' opinions on whether or not changes to other armies might make Starcannons more common again. Previously, I'd switched to Scatter Lasers for the extra shots against light vehicles. With the changes to power weapons, I'm wondering if it is important to have another source of AP2 weaponry in the army.

I think you'll see starcannons coming back not just because we'll need more Ap2 for termies, but also because cover got worse.

I'll be running some star cannons on one of three war walkers to start.

I was reading the psychic power section and the book makes it very clear that a psyker must have LoS to the target. Specifically mentioned is being inside of a transport. Does this stop a farseer from casting fortune and guide at friendlies from a serpent or do we have a specific line somewhere that allows us to do so?

The entry about "Farseer Psychic Powers" p. 28 "Unless otherwise noted [...] and do not require the Eldar psyker to have line of sight to target".
I guess as a specific Eldar psychic power entry it is more important than BRB one.

Well, codex normally overrides rulebook.

Indeed it says so on page 7 in the bottom right corner.

I've began trying to piece together a tactica on the new eldar playstyles.. do you think we could start listing some new possiblities we find in our codex via the FAQ and new rulebook?

Here's a few things I've noticed..

1) Harliquins are right now very very solid. We are all fairly certain their FAQ is in error, and that they will lose the requirement to be spotted eventually.

While that is a semi-nerf, keep in mind that with shrouding and scout, a squad of Harliquins can outflank onto the board, run into cover, and enjoy a 2+ cover save for the round.

2) Eldar Jetbikes were definataly buffed. While you cannot gain a 3+ cover anymore, the large range is very useful. Note that Guardian Jetbikes are more durable, but cannot hide in reserves as long before coming to play.

3) Fire Prisms are about the same. On the brightside, they enjoy the new blast rules and might have more purpose with the incoming rise of TEQ's. Also, you probably won't feel the need to purchase any Holo-fields and Spirit Stones anymore.

4) Weapon Support Batteries Improved. Especially with the ability to move the infantry around but not lose the ability to fire if the weapons stay still. (Ie, each round you keep 1 guardian in front of each weapon. Shots are against T7 per artillery rules. Wounds still resolve vs the closest model. If your guardian dies, shuffle another up. Plus the cannon itself gained 2 wounds. Putting these things in an Aegis Defense Line or a bigger bastion is very doable,

D Cannons remain about the same. Glancing is better but the short range hurts.

Shadow Weavers improve tremendously. Note that with a double force orginizational chart, you can have 4 cheap Farseers with the "new" guide from divination aiding the shots of 12 STR 6 templates.. Technically, you could have up to 18 of these weapons..

Vibro Cannons become monstrous. Re-rollable (via powers) 36 inch lines that can hit units in CC and AUTOGLANCE vehicles on a hit is great. If you max these batteries out you could reliably kill 3 vehicles per turn and potentially glance 6 to death. And thats assuming you only hit 1 vehicle per 36 inch line.

5) Iyanden lists are doable for those fluff nutts. 20 Wraithguard can meet minimum troop obligations and leave room for 6 Wraithlords. Then take Yriel and it's a fluff list!

6) Seer Councils on Jetbikes may finally be worth the points of a maxed out unit. I'd attach two Farseers to it I think for the bigger range of powers. Witchblades didn't lose anything in melee really. 3+2d6 is an average of 10. I'm not clear on S.Spears. Does throwing them still count as Str 9?

Also, with a 36 inch range and rerollable 3+/4++ and the ability to take armor vs terrain tests, we can move up really well. And there's usually nightfight T1 anyways.

7) DE rerollable 2++ saves are ridiculous and tasty. I can see DE adding a lot of dimensions to our lists, should we choose to forgive our wayward cousins and except their aid.

8: With people getting really fancy with troop formations now, Eldar will have a great ability to mess with coherency. Rangers alone can usually eke out 2 precise shots with 9 shooters, and that alone might be enough. Then add jumppacks and jetbikes and it's very possible to throw off enemy forces with only a few wounds.

9) We do STR 6 spam better than anyone. Eldar glance-to-death armies gain power.

10) Swooping hawks can intercept flyers and plant grenades on a 4+. Might be worth a try.

Thunderfrog wrote:
2) Eldar Jetbikes were definataly buffed. While you cannot gain a 4+ cover anymore...

According to the Jink special rule (which all Bikes have), Turbo-boosting models (which Jetbikes can do) gain a 4+ cover save.

Unless you were thinking of the 3+ cover save from the prior edition, in which case... yes, a minor nerf.

Magc8Ball wrote:

Thunderfrog wrote:
2) Eldar Jetbikes were definataly buffed. While you cannot gain a 4+ cover anymore...

According to the Jink special rule (which all Bikes have), Turbo-boosting models (which Jetbikes can do) gain a 4+ cover save.

Unless you were thinking of the 3+ cover save from the prior edition, in which case... yes, a minor nerf.

This. Will edit.

Anyone else thinking Holofields aren't going to be worth the points anymore?

djones520 wrote:Anyone else thinking Holofields aren't going to be worth the points anymore?

Well, it appears that they are only in use when the tank get a penetrating hit. For a glancing hit, no roll on the chart is made. So three glancing hits and the tank is dead; the holofield comes not into effect.

Magc8Ball wrote:I'm curious as to other folks' opinions on whether or not changes to other armies might make Starcannons more common again. Previously, I'd switched to Scatter Lasers for the extra shots against light vehicles. With the changes to power weapons, I'm wondering if it is important to have another source of AP2 weaponry in the army.

How many power weapons did you bring to take down terminators before? I don't seem to remember many army lists with banshees.

You can expect to see a slight rise in terminator armies, but as people start bringing more PGs, the meta will shift back away from the terminator armies and you will see as many as you do today.

So, do you really need to alter your meta to deal with terminators as eldar? Probably not. Keep your fire dragons, they will do the job just as well vs normal terminators and bounce off TH/SS terminators -- just like before.


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Thunderfrog wrote:Vibro Cannons become monstrous. Re-rollable (via powers) 36 inch lines that can hit units in CC and AUTOGLANCE vehicles on a hit is great. If you max these batteries out you could reliably kill 3 vehicles per turn and potentially glance 6 to death. And thats assuming you only hit 1 vehicle per 36 inch line.

I've been looking at this, and I'm not sure it works that way.

The rule says that when you have a battery, you roll to hit with each battery. If one vibrocannon hits, then you draw a 36" line from any vibrocannon.
The section on vibrocannons effect on armor is the following "A target with an Armor Value that is hit by a vibro cannon always suffers a single glancing hit."
It seems that as your only drawing one line, that one vibrocannon is hitting. In the case of the vibrocannons on infantry, the others increase the STR of the hit -- but I see nothing about vehicles.

I looked through the FAQ. Is there another place that confirms that all 3 vibrocannos count as glancing?

Well, vibrocannons are very vulnerable. The enemy will target them early if necessary. Moreover, they compete with all the other units in the HS section.

Frankly, I'm a bit disappointed about these rule changes for Eldar. The prospects are not very good since Eldar is largely based on synergy.

-Eldrad rolling on Divination is very good. Auto-include for me.

-Starcannons got stronger with the ability to target models outside of cover.
-Reapers got stronger with the ability to target models outside of cover.

-Wraithlords are characters and can snipe/challenge. Many possible weapon Loadouts...

-I think Walkers/Reapers/Wraithlords will be common, won't see the Heavy Support Vehicles.

-Tank Hunter re-rolls to penetrate.

-Can Pre-measure everything. This helps a lot with Eldar.

-Stronger focus on infantry in the Meta and away from Mech-spam which Eldar struggled with.

-Waveserpent move and shoot turret+underslung Shuricannon, recieves 5+ jink save.

- You can ally a voidraven bomber for a flyer, and DE warriors have rapid fire guns - far better than Guardians.

These are the units I think have gotten better
* Pathfinders Being able to place precision shots at range is very strong.

* Harlequins.....Shroud and Stealth means they have a 4+ cover save in the open, dropping to a 2+ in woods. Rending is still AP2.

* Wraithlords...They gained new abilities, and kept all their old ones. Unlike other MCs, their impact hit is STR 10.

* Warlocks......Being level 0 psykers means they can deny the witch on a 5+. Wytchblades did get a nurf, but they still tear up most vehicles.

* Avatar...........For the same reason as the Wraithlords

* Eldrad...........I did not think it was possible, but being a lvl 3 psyker that can trade out 4 powers is huge.

* Dark Reapers...As mentioned, they can target outside cover -- and they can hold objectives on some missions.

* Banshees....Model power axes on all your banshees. Your squad strikes at I10 and at STR 4.

* Guardian Jet Bikes.....These can move incredibly fast -- excellent for taking objectives late game.

* Shining spears......They get impact hits. They can move very fast. Their still extremely overpriced.


These units have gotten better and worse
Falcons + Wave Serpents
* They get a 5+ jink save.
* They all can move 18" in the shooting phase instead of shooting.
* They can move 12" and shoot 2 guns, which is perfect for those underslung cannons or both falcon guns.
* They are more fragile with hull points. You can't just hide in your transports all game any more.
* STR 6 spam is better now that you can glance to death via hull points.


These are the units that I think have gotten weaker
* Nightspinners....being able to take armor saves vs dangerous terrain tests lowers the effect of these.

* Guardians.........Where all other basic troops with rapid fire weapons got a boost, guardians are bottom of the barrel.

I'm thinking wraithlords got a bit more fun with Fear and issuing challenges and now I can run 6 at 2000 points.

So did anyone else pick up on this sad tidbit:

6e Rulebook, p. 67:

A Psyker cannot attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per turn- even if the manifestation attempt is not successful

Eldar Codex, p. 28:

Farseer Psychic Powers: Unless otherwise noted, these powers work as described in the Psychic Powers section of the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook...

I guess this means an end to casting Fortune or Guide on multiple units without two Farseers. :(

Loch wrote:So did anyone else pick up on this sad tidbit:

6e Rulebook, p. 67:

A Psyker cannot attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per turn- even if the manifestation attempt is not successful

Eldar Codex, p. 28:

Farseer Psychic Powers: Unless otherwise noted, these powers work as described in the Psychic Powers section of the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook...

I guess this means an end to casting Fortune or Guide on multiple units without two Farseers. :(

I didnt think you could do that anyways.

Also...I mistakenly read "stealth" as "scout", so no outflanking Harliequins.

Griever wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote:With overwatch, probably nobody's going to want to charge a unit of 20 guardians.

If it's true that AP2 adds +1 to the vehicle damage table, Wraithcannons, brightlances and pulse lasers (and starcannons) all get an antitank bonus.

Depending on how artillery rules have been changed, batteries of dirt-cheap shadow weaver shots, with the whole template now str6 against vehicles, might become a decent choice again.

Even though they're expensive, starcannons might become the go-to gun again for taking down terminators.

20 Guardians kill 1 Space Marine at BS 1. That's not scary at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks to the person who pointed out the benefit of allying with DE giving Eldar WWP's! This had never crossed my mind. As much as the idea of "allying" DE and Eldar together make me sick, I can easily convert an Archon to be a Corsair Prince or something.

Not being able to assault out of a WWP isn't really that big of a deal since Footdar isn't awesome at assault anways. This just gives a Footdar list some more flexibility with deployment, and can help in matchups against long range gunlines that the shorter Eldar weapons have issues dealing with.

not being able to assault out of the webwayportal kills the build, it isnt viable without that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Loch wrote:So did anyone else pick up on this sad tidbit:

6e Rulebook, p. 67:

A Psyker cannot attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per turn- even if the manifestation attempt is not successful

Eldar Codex, p. 28:

Farseer Psychic Powers: Unless otherwise noted, these powers work as described in the Psychic Powers section of the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook...

I guess this means an end to casting Fortune or Guide on multiple units without two Farseers. :(

Eldrads staff overides the BRB.


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labmouse42 wrote:These are the units I think have gotten better
* Pathfinders Being able to place precision shots at range is very strong.

* Harlequins.....Shroud and Stealth means they have a 4+ cover save in the open, dropping to a 2+ in woods. Rending is still AP2.

* Wraithlords...They gained new abilities, and kept all their old ones. Unlike other MCs, their impact hit is STR 10.

* Warlocks......Being level 0 psykers means they can deny the witch on a 5+. Wytchblades did get a nurf, but they still tear up most vehicles.

* Avatar...........For the same reason as the Wraithlords

* Eldrad...........I did not think it was possible, but being a lvl 3 psyker that can trade out 4 powers is huge.

* Dark Reapers...As mentioned, they can target outside cover -- and they can hold objectives on some missions.

* Banshees....Model power axes on all your banshees. Your squad strikes at I10 and at STR 4.

* Guardian Jet Bikes.....These can move incredibly fast -- excellent for taking objectives late game.

* Shining spears......They get impact hits. They can move very fast. Their still extremely overpriced.


These units have gotten better and worse
Falcons + Wave Serpents
* They get a 5+ jink save.
* They all can move 18" in the shooting phase instead of shooting.
* They can move 12" and shoot 2 guns, which is perfect for those underslung cannons or both falcon guns.
* They are more fragile with hull points. You can't just hide in your transports all game any more.
* STR 6 spam is better now that you can glance to death via hull points.


These are the units that I think have gotten weaker
* Nightspinners....being able to take armor saves vs dangerous terrain tests lowers the effect of these.

* Guardians.........Where all other basic troops with rapid fire weapons got a boost, guardians are bottom of the barrel.

Interesting points, thank you for posting this.




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wuestenfux wrote:

djones520 wrote:Anyone else thinking Holofields aren't going to be worth the points anymore?

Well, it appears that they are only in use when the tank get a penetrating hit. For a glancing hit, no roll on the chart is made. So three glancing hits and the tank is dead; the holofield comes not into effect.

holofields are 100% a dead and bad upgrade :(


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spackledgoat wrote:I was reading the psychic power section and the book makes it very clear that a psyker must have LoS to the target. Specifically mentioned is being inside of a transport. Does this stop a farseer from casting fortune and guide at friendlies from a serpent or do we have a specific line somewhere that allows us to do so?

Only shooting psychic powers require line of sight, Fortune and Guide are not shooting psychic powers, so they dont require LOS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Exergy wrote:

Griever wrote:
Thanks to the person who pointed out the benefit of allying with DE giving Eldar WWP's! This had never crossed my mind. As much as the idea of "allying" DE and Eldar together make me sick, I can easily convert an Archon to be a Corsair Prince or something.

Not being able to assault out of a WWP isn't really that big of a deal since Footdar isn't awesome at assault anways. This just gives a Footdar list some more flexibility with deployment, and can help in matchups against long range gunlines that the shorter Eldar weapons have issues dealing with.

keep reading, the DE faq says allies cannot come out of the WWP

That would of made a really cool aspect to the game, but whatever GW.............

I know its sad that Imperials can now take Farseer with Runes of Warding, with Pathfinders, and a Squad of Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent is a bit daunting, especially if you are Eldar fighting Space Marines with Eldar allies (lul what?).

But look on the bright side. We are buddies with the Tau and what do the Tau have? Marker lights and Broadsides. For the auxiliary we take a battle suit with 2 marker drones, missile pods, and targeting array. For troops we take 6 fire warriors and give their leader a marker light. Then we can take 8 pathfinders. Boom, no more cover for enemies. For the grand finale, take 3 broadsides. This way, we don't' worry about the cover saves on the board. And so far, the only S 10 AP 1 heavy that we have is taking 2 Fire Prisms. If we take Broadsides, we get 3 twin linked S 10 AP 1 shots AND we get 3 HS slots available. The Tau only comes out to around 725 points. Not a bad deal in a 2K game.

Then for the Eldar side, take Eldrad hands down. Take 2 5-man pathfinders for the troops. Take some Banshees and Fire Dragons in wave serpents for your elites. This still leaves you about 250 points if you want to take Yriel for Challenge lulls (Eldrad and Yriel both say that they ignore armor, not having power weapons so they can still take down terminators). Or you can take swooping hawk for their Haywire. Haywire got a massive buff. After hitting the vehicle you just need to not roll a 1 to glance it. Roll a 6 for a penetrating hit. If a tank didn't move, it gets auto hit. If it did move, you hit on a 3. 3 Haywire means byebye to most tanks out there. 4 for a Landraider. I think intercept allows us to hit flyers on a 4+. Take 10 Swooping Hawks and on average thats 5 grenades going off. Byebye flyer.

So yes, I'm peeved that others get Eldar, but look at it this way: use marker lights to light up that Wave Serpent witth the Fire Dragons so that there's no cover saves. Shoot 3 twin linked rail guns into it. You only need a 2+ to glance it. 3+ to pen it. So if you're lucky and hit with all rail guns and roll all 2+, thats the dead dreaded fire dragons coming at you.

So in a way, I'm very glad Eldar are buddies with the Tau.


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Hang on, pathfinders need a Devilship to go along with them, so it'll cost more than 725. That or take stealth teams.

Expect the broadsides are going to be str 8...

Railguns are still S: 10 AP: 1 in the reference table. Do they no longer have rail guns?