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**Pacific**

Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Actually, it was still always legal to use the Squat minis. Jervis even said it in his bit where he "once and for alled" the Squats that players were still welcome to use them. Did people encounter situations where they weren't legal?
.

There was quite a gap in-between the Squats not having any real work in 2nd edition, no mention at all in 3rd edition, and then the letter from Jervis. Several years IIRC, and even when the letter did appear in practice probably 95% didn't (still don't) know about it. All they knew was that "Squats are fat and stupid and look rubbish, and they don't have an army list and GW says they are bad, so there".

As late as 4th edition I was banned from using a Squat-themed objective marker in a GW store.

Here is a copy of a letter that was in WD 240 (January 2000), back when they used to have a fan letters page, courtesy of the excellently named blog 'Hungry Ghost Chaos Squats of Khorne' http://chaossquats.blogspot.co.uk/

Letter to GW:

“WE WANT SQUATS!
Sorry, I just assumed this was how most people have been reacting since the Squats were dropped from the 40K universe. This race was the reason I joined the Games Workshop family in the first place. If I was so impatient back in mid-2nd edition and started collecting my second choice army (Space Marines), I would have quickly lost interest and never became the obsessed freak over the game that I am today.

The history and characteristics of the Squats are interesting and unique in the 40K universe. In the 2nd edition rules they were a mix of Orks, Imperial Guard, and Space Marines... with a grudge! The honor, toughness, and excellent weaponry (I would have loved to see a Mole Mortar in action) were the big draws to this under-appreciated army. Also, something very cool about the 40K universe was the fact that it was a sci-fi mirror of the Fantasy world. Nearly every race from Fantasy had its high-tech cousins represented in the 'far, distant future', and that's how the people liked it! Would you even consider robbing the Fantasy world of Dwarfs. With their wonderful weapons and bitter-sweet rivalry with the Elves? I don't think so! Nor should we players of 40K have to do without. Just the humble opinion of one dedicated fan. Tim Gutierrez”

And the reply:

“Would you believe they were all eaten by the Tyranid invasion? Or, due to the Squats biker life style, everyone of the was arrested for disturbing the peace and sacrificed to the Emperor. Where do you think they get all of those souls anyway? All kidding aside, it doesn't seem likely the Squats will ever again see the light of day. When they were out they never seemed very popular, showed up at our stores, or tournaments, and didn't sell on top of all that*. Their look was really outdated compared to the hundreds of other great Warhammer 40,000 models. Don't send us hate mail, it's just the cold hard facts of the 41st Millennium.”

* Note that the 'poor sales' claim, as a reason to drop the line, was contradicted by Jervis' letter later on (which said that there were other miniature lines which had far worse sales)

When people comment that GW should try and have more dialogue with their fans, I always think back to that letter, and that it might not necessarily be a good thing if they did.

**Lynata**

Mr Morden wrote:I want cat girl models Although as they are limited ot one planet not very common:

My "Only War" P&P group's first reaction:

"Catgirl Storm Troopers!"

"The cat from Shrek dressed up as a commissar!"

**Wyrmalla**

=/I strongly suspect that Squats will be brung back now in the form of the odd model in addition to other armies, much like the Space monkeys with the Grey Knights, or the other space monkeys with the Dark Eldar. If the Imperial Guard ever get a new codex it may well include adhuman units in it (GW running out of ideas and all), which could be Squats, and hey Forgeworld could do them. As far as the old novels, and their later re-releases go, Squats were never completely extinct. In the Inquisitor War novels its just their homeworlds that are gone, the rest just became nomads of the Imperial Space lanes and old star forts. It really wouldn't be difficult to rewrite them back into the Imperial fluff, even in a small way, and hell, at least this shows that the guys at GW can have their thick skulls thawed a little now and then. =P

**Lynata**

Wyrmalla wrote:In the Inquisitor War novels its just their homeworlds that are gone, the rest just became nomads of the Imperial Space lanes and old star forts.

Interesting that you would name the Inquisition War trilogy. For whatever reason, GW (or rather BL, but maybe on order of GW?) actually went through the trouble to edit squats out of them entirely. Jaq Draco's squat engineer Grimm was rewritten into the human Techpriest Grill.

**Veteran Sergeant**

That's too bad about the banning of your marker. The good news is, I have some unassembled plastic Squats I've been saving for a thus far undetermined special occasion, and now it's starting to seem quite likely that one of them will find his way onto an objective marker for my project log Battle Company, lol.

**Kid_Kyoto**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Well, technically, squats were never gone from the fluff. They were just made extinct.
Extinct =/= gone from the fluff.
The information on pg406 does not say they are still living; it just acknowledges that they exist or had existed at some point.
Until more information is available, we cannot say for certain that Squats are "back".

No they were gone. Whited out.

GW even edited an old story to eliminate references to a Squat character, Squat Engineer Grimm became Tech Priest Grill.

that's like Stalin level history re-writing.

So yeah.

yay!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lynata wrote:
Wyrmalla wrote:In the Inquisitor War novels its just their homeworlds that are gone, the rest just became nomads of the Imperial Space lanes and old star forts.
Interesting that you would name the Inquisition War trilogy. For whatever reason, GW (or rather BL, but maybe on order of GW?) actually went through the trouble to edit squats out of them entirely. Jaq Draco's squat engineer Grimm was rewritten into the human Techpriest Grill.

Just to add some details, Grimm was edited out when they reprinted the short story collection Deathwing. However he was left in the Inquisition Wars which were reprinted later.

**Pacific**

Veteran Sergeant wrote:That's too bad about the banning of your marker. The good news is, I have some unassembled plastic Squats I've been saving for a thus far undetermined special occasion, and now it's starting to seem quite likely that one of them will find his way onto an objective marker for my project log Battle Company, lol.

Please do it, and re-address the karmic imbalance in the wargaming world!

Kid Kyoto wrote:o they were gone. Whited out.

GW even edited an old story to eliminate references to a Squat character, Squat Engineer Grimm became Tech Priest Grill.

that's like Stalin level history re-writing.

So yeah.

I was going to mention that actually! I don't know whether to find it amusing, or more than a little... well, weird...

I'm sure though in the latest book that was published (the Inquisitor War omnibus) the character was restored to a Squat?

(As a side note, the character works much better as a squat. Ian Watson himself commented that the character was introduced as a bit of essential light relief from the blood awful stuff that has been going on in the rest of the story. Grimm being knocked onto his bum, or falling off his trike and having to be rescued by Meh'Lindi, certainly did that.)

**Wyrmalla**

Lynata wrote:
Wyrmalla wrote:In the Inquisitor War novels its just their homeworlds that are gone, the rest just became nomads of the Imperial Space lanes and old star forts.
Interesting that you would name the Inquisition War trilogy. For whatever reason, GW (or rather BL, but maybe on order of GW?) actually went through the trouble to edit squats out of them entirely. Jaq Draco's squat engineer Grimm was rewritten into the human Techpriest Grill.

Uh...... what?

That's so bloody ridiculous. I mean, what about all the jokes about the Imperium doing everything in a stupid fashion with all their rituals, instead of just putting a bit of oil on it and saying jobs a good un'? They probably rewrote that but left in all the other stuff that doesn't fit current fluff, just because they were so hell bent on getting rid of the little guys. ...Ie the Culexus assassin being able to hide in genestealer cults by visual changes alone....youknow nothing about them now communicating solely through psychic powers.

...Hmn, odd question, but if they rewrote that bit....did they change the little bit about how statis devices work? Ie when they go to Terra in the first book. If it wasn't changed, and as far as I know its the only description about how they work in the fiction....then....it does clarify the Roboute Gulliman is healing. ....Yeah.......right.....? 0.o

**KamikazeCanuck**

Lynata wrote:
Wyrmalla wrote:In the Inquisitor War novels its just their homeworlds that are gone, the rest just became nomads of the Imperial Space lanes and old star forts.
Interesting that you would name the Inquisition War trilogy. For whatever reason, GW (or rather BL, but maybe on order of GW?) actually went through the trouble to edit squats out of them entirely. Jaq Draco's squat engineer Grimm was rewritten into the human Techpriest Grill.

What?! What version of Inquisition War is this? In my omnibus Grimm is squating it up.

**Manchu**

Lynata wrote:Jaq Draco's squat engineer Grimm was rewritten into the human Techpriest Grill.

I've heard this before but it must have been undone. In the 2010 (or 2011?) printing of the Inquisition War omnibus (not a print-on-demand run; this was available in stores) Grimm is still very much a Squat.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Just to add some details, Grimm was edited out when they reprinted the short story collection Deathwing. However he was left in the Inquisition Wars which were reprinted later.

Ah, that explains it.

**Wyrmalla**

¬¬ Still pretty stupid that they even tried it based on the amount of Squat related dialogue that he has. Ie going off on a little monologue about how all the Squats were killed by the nids during the second book and being pretty peeved that it could have feasibly happened (and for no one to apparently give a toss about it bar him....-I think Draco says it was a sad fate that Grimm's people would suffer in retrospect).

**doc1234**

why am i getting an urge for a new abhuman inquisitor retinue...and a catgirl inquisitor...

**Mr Morden**

Well thats a new possible conquest for Cain - catgirls

I think if they do become anything more than a very very small footnote about a minor subrace on an unremarkable planet they will elicite equally strong feelings of love and hate

**doc1234**

Mr Morden wrote:Well thats a new possible conquest for Cain - catgirls

I think if they do become anything more than a very very small footnote about a minor subrace on an unremarkable planet they will elicite equally strong feelings of love and hate

Also, why am i seeing a 3rd new religion in the IOM, "all hail the catgirl! burn the heretic! catnip for the cat goddess!"

**Veteran Sergeant**

While I'm happy to see the Squats come back, the cat people and fish people are for some reason quite bothersome, lol.

Fluff wise, I can see how the Imperium might tolerate short people and big people. But people with cat features seem like they might be seen as Chaos! by the Imperium.

**Pacific**

The fish people are already here, they have blue skin and ride around in Hammerheads and Piranhas

**Lynata**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Just to add some details, Grimm was edited out when they reprinted the short story collection Deathwing. However he was left in the Inquisition Wars which were reprinted later.

Ahh, gotcha - I only read it elsewhere, too. My own copy of Inquisitor is fairly old (it's not even the omnibus) ... must've been my first 40k book ever, even before I found out there was a miniatures game attached to this franchise.

And yeah, Grimm ftw!

doc1234 wrote:Also, why am i seeing a 3rd new religion in the IOM, "all hail the catgirl! burn the heretic! catnip for the cat goddess!"

**kenshin620**

Huh, never knew they actually wrote out a squat in a novel. Very interesting to see just how crazy GW was (wait, they're still crazy with rectons!

)

Veteran Sergeant wrote:While I'm happy to see the Squats come back, the cat people and fish people are for some reason quite bothersome, lol.

Fluff wise, I can see how the Imperium might tolerate short people and big people. But people with cat features seem like they might be seen as Chaos! by the Imperium.

Beastmen seemed quite fine with the IOM already though. Although I can easily see resentment/fear of any of the "non human" abhumans from the common folk

**Formosa**

how could you all forget the Rogue trader from the Eisenhorn series who was decended from sqauts!

**Veteran Sergeant**

I dunno if "quite fine" is the same as "tolerated" lol. Beastmen have always been on the fringe for me, and never surprised me that they sorta slipped by the wayside in the fluff.

**Psienesis**

Untwerth thought he might have been distantly related to the Squats, because he was short and ugly, but was not himself a Squat, and simply may have been a short and ugly human.

I'm... going to have to see these Cat-people (Navi?) for myself. Gods below, two of the ladies in my DH group are going to go ape-gak over this if they're viable...

**d-usa**

zedmeister wrote:Interesting, they may be trying to differentiate the Demiurg with the squats. In effect, acknowledging that the Squats exist while simultaneously releasing the 'new' race.

I was also thinking that there is a Demiurg connection there, which would make sense.

**kenshin620**

d-usa wrote:
zedmeister wrote:Interesting, they may be trying to differentiate the Demiurg with the squats. In effect, acknowledging that the Squats exist while simultaneously releasing the 'new' race.

I was also thinking that there is a Demiurg connection there, which would make sense.

Well in all honesty I think most people would never see the connection between Demiurg and Squats if the description of Demiurg being golem/stone like beings is accurate. I mean ok I guess height is the connection

**d-usa**

kenshin620 wrote:
d-usa wrote:
zedmeister wrote:Interesting, they may be trying to differentiate the Demiurg with the squats. In effect, acknowledging that the Squats exist while simultaneously releasing the 'new' race.

I was also thinking that there is a Demiurg connection there, which would make sense.

Well in all honesty I think most people would never see the connection between Demiurg and Squats if the description of Demiurg being golem/stone like beings is accurate. I mean ok I guess height is the connection

I was mostly thinking along the line of possible fluff for the Demiurg. If they are in the new codec and the fluff includes something along the lines of "Squat allied with Tau", then GW would have to admit that Squats did actually exist.

**BolingbrokeIV**

Demiurg are in The Primarchs, released a few months ago, and are explicitly described as xenos. Squats, in the new rulebook, subhuman. So no connection in current cannon besides the obvious similarities.

**KamikazeCanuck**

The mind boggles at what it would take to write Grimm out of Inquisition War. When you think about it Squats and Tech Priests actually have opposite attitudes towards technology. Grimm basically rolls his eyes at the thought of worshipping a machine at one point.

**insaniak**

Steel Angel wrote:interesting tidbit thunderfire cannon was invented by squats.

I think you're confusing the Thunderfire Cannon with the (admittedly functionally similar) Thudd Gun.

**Roadkill Zombie**

The Thunderfire Cannon was actually the name of a weapon the Squats used for anti-aircraft fire in 2nd edition epic. The effects the current thunderfire cannon have on the game seem very similar to the effects the origional Mole Mortar and Thudd Gun had on 2nd edition.

The Space Marine codex has a Librarian Psychic Power in it called Force Dome. Force Dome was origionally a Squat Psychic Power in 2nd edition 40k.

The Gravition Gun was a weapon used by the Squats in 2nd edition too and now it is making an appearance in pistol form in the Grey Knights codex as a Gravition Beamer.

**doc1234**

Roadkill Zombie wrote:The Thunderfire Cannon was actually the name of a weapon the Squats used for anti-aircraft fire in 2nd edition epic. The effects the current thunderfire cannon have on the game seem very similar to the effects the origional Mole Mortar and Thudd Gun had on 2nd edition.

The Space Marine codex has a Librarian Psychic Power in it called Force Dome. Force Dome was origionally a Squat Psychic Power in 2nd edition 40k.

The Gravition Gun was a weapon used by the Squats in 2nd edition too and now it is making an appearance in pistol form in the Grey Knights codex as a Gravition Beamer.

Graviton beamer pistol? :/ dont remember that showing up anywhere

**kenshin620**

doc1234 wrote:
Roadkill Zombie wrote:The Thunderfire Cannon was actually the name of a weapon the Squats used for anti-aircraft fire in 2nd edition epic. The effects the current thunderfire cannon have on the game seem very similar to the effects the origional Mole Mortar and Thudd Gun had on 2nd edition.

The Space Marine codex has a Librarian Psychic Power in it called Force Dome. Force Dome was origionally a Squat Psychic Power in 2nd edition 40k.

The Gravition Gun was a weapon used by the Squats in 2nd edition too and now it is making an appearance in pistol form in the Grey Knights codex as a Gravition Beamer.

Graviton beamer pistol? :/ dont remember that showing up anywhere

One of the Inquisitor SC has one