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Praxiss wrote:IG? Anti-Flyers? Isn't that what Hydras were invented for?

But it's not infantry focused?
Try taking lots and lots of missile launchers, autocannons and maybe even heavy bolters. (The latter only against specific targets.)
It should do the trick.

Praxiss wrote:IG? Anti-Flyers? Isn't that what Hydras were invented for?

I believe the OP question addresses "Infantry" solutions.

The problem with Hydras is that they don't have interceptor. One trick pony.

My knee jerk to the title here, is that it seems kinda counter intuitive with your take all comers list super impose a stipulation that you only take infantry, especially if by your own admission they are not always easy to equip for every task.

You can throw characters on gun emplacements if you feel like you only need a little extra help. The BS tends to go up.

Vibro cannons and Multilaser/Autocannon style weapons aren't awful at it either and they're pretty standard fare for dorky troops. Heavy support squads will give you what you need to be keeping squadrons in check and hopefully you'll find some neat way to give them cover, though you'd probably be better off if you could find a fire point to shoot out of.

How do fliers interact with blasts again?

Fliers are immune to blast and template weapons.

All fair points gentleman. I guess I do count Walkers as infantry (they have legs!).

You could field all the right TAC stuff without using tanks in 5ed. Now.. I may need to rely on Blood Lance!

spiraleddie wrote:I think the delay in releasing any rules for Aa in current codices I.e. no flakk missile or similar FAQ/errata is likely becuase gw see this lack of aa being felt a good opportunity to flog their new fliers. I have no real problem with this just that I don't really want a flyer in my army.

Exactly my point of view as well. The necron fliers are awesome, but I don't really want to field one.

Q: Why aren't there infantry-focused solutions to Fliers??

A: Because Games Workshop wants you to buy flyers and fortifications.

Well, They haave those Flakk Missles that they might add soon(and once they do, im making a missle dev squad full of them)
And well you have the quad gun which infantry can man.
And with mass guass weapon you could glance them to death.

Do you have any access to lots of autocannons? Chaos havocs or ig heavy weapons teams?

ALso, dont forget about the objective that gives skyfire to any models you wish.

For anyone asking why there are no anti-air infantry solutions except flakk missiles (soon to be released when GW sells enough flyers)-
Look at my post on page one. Oddly enough, its REALLY HARD to track and accurately shoot down and extremely fast moving vehicle that is extremely mobile. it takes complicated tracking systems and big guns to fire far enough to hit the things. These don't fit on people shoulders. Most AA will be emplacements and vehicle mounted. Unless GW start giving special rules out, like a order for IG to give skyfire ("by the power of my voice alone guardsmen you will gain the ability to accurately track predict and fire upon a slim supersonic eldar fighter with your plasmaguns! Fire now, Im using the voice, have faith!"), infantry are not going to be a major source of skyfire weapons.

The aegis line and guad gun are not that expensive (points wise). I might have to kowtow to GW pressue and pick one up.

I know it's not officially infantry, but can a ork grabba klaw kill a flyer? There's a line in the rulebook that says if a flyer can't move properly, it dies.

Oh and a simple infantry solution. Devestators/long fangs with the reroll divination power.

Praxiss wrote:The aegis line and guad gun are not that expensive (points wise). I might have to kowtow to GW pressue and pick one up.

Thing with this is that it's easily enough taken down, and you can be sure that it'll be a turn 1 target if they've got flyers coming on later. What you need is a bastion with quad gun, but this means buying 2 kits (very clever, GW). Still, you coud use the defence lines, lascannon and relay elsewhere, I'm sure.

I'm sure a shokk attack Gun would be OK - pity the poor big mek that is the first to be teleoprted in base to base with the flyer.

RFHolloway wrote:I'm sure a shokk attack Gun would be OK - pity the poor big mek that is the first to be teleoprted in base to base with the flyer.

Blast weapons can't hit fliers.

scuddman wrote:I know it's not officially infantry, but can a ork grabba klaw kill a flyer? There's a line in the rulebook that says if a flyer can't move properly, it dies.

It can, but due to model dimensions, you'd have to drive the battlewagon right underneath the flier, barring MFA. 2" isn't that much.

Fire Dragons with Exarch in an Aegis with quad gun.

Intercept with skyfire, combined with Crack Shot and Tank Hunters. They're denied any cover saves from jink, they get rerolls on armor pen. Exarch still gets to fire his flamer after intercepting.

Jihallah wrote:For anyone asking why there are no anti-air infantry solutions except flakk missiles (soon to be released when GW sells enough flyers)-
Look at my post on page one. Oddly enough, its REALLY HARD to track and accurately shoot down and extremely fast moving vehicle that is extremely mobile. it takes complicated tracking systems and big guns to fire far enough to hit the things. These don't fit on people shoulders. Most AA will be emplacements and vehicle mounted. Unless GW start giving special rules out, like a order for IG to give skyfire ("by the power of my voice alone guardsmen you will gain the ability to accurately track predict and fire upon a slim supersonic eldar fighter with your plasmaguns! Fire now, Im using the voice, have faith!"), infantry are not going to be a major source of skyfire weapons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger

If we have these now, Imagine in 38,000 years. I think they would have a shoulder fired man portable anti air that can hit fast movers by then

Primestick wrote:

Jihallah wrote:For anyone asking why there are no anti-air infantry solutions except flakk missiles (soon to be released when GW sells enough flyers)-
Look at my post on page one. Oddly enough, its REALLY HARD to track and accurately shoot down and extremely fast moving vehicle that is extremely mobile. it takes complicated tracking systems and big guns to fire far enough to hit the things. These don't fit on people shoulders. Most AA will be emplacements and vehicle mounted. Unless GW start giving special rules out, like a order for IG to give skyfire ("by the power of my voice alone guardsmen you will gain the ability to accurately track predict and fire upon a slim supersonic eldar fighter with your plasmaguns! Fire now, Im using the voice, have faith!"), infantry are not going to be a major source of skyfire weapons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger

If we have these now, Imagine in 38,000 years. I think they would have a shoulder fired man portable anti air that can hit fast movers by then

Except that progress hasn't be going forward all that time.'
The argument; "Look what we have now. It must be even better in 40K" simply don't fly.

Steelmage99 wrote:

Primestick wrote:

Jihallah wrote:For anyone asking why there are no anti-air infantry solutions except flakk missiles (soon to be released when GW sells enough flyers)-
Look at my post on page one. Oddly enough, its REALLY HARD to track and accurately shoot down and extremely fast moving vehicle that is extremely mobile. it takes complicated tracking systems and big guns to fire far enough to hit the things. These don't fit on people shoulders. Most AA will be emplacements and vehicle mounted. Unless GW start giving special rules out, like a order for IG to give skyfire ("by the power of my voice alone guardsmen you will gain the ability to accurately track predict and fire upon a slim supersonic eldar fighter with your plasmaguns! Fire now, Im using the voice, have faith!"), infantry are not going to be a major source of skyfire weapons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger

If we have these now, Imagine in 38,000 years. I think they would have a shoulder fired man portable anti air that can hit fast movers by then

Except that progress hasn't be going forward all that time.'
The argument; "Look what we have now. It must be even better in 40K" simply don't fly.

Especially as it might just mean that countermeasures have become 38,000 years better as well.

Primestick wrote:If we have these now, Imagine in 38,000 years. I think they would have a shoulder fired man portable anti air that can hit fast movers by then

Keep in mind that about all technical progress the IoM has been making since the Horus Hersey is either "Look, we found ancient blueprints!" or some overly witty space marine putting more guns/armor/power into something they already had. Considering all the knowledge about tech that was lost to them, it wouldn't be surprising if they had that kind of missiles but can no longer build them.

TedNugent wrote:Missile Launchers are going to have an S7 skyfire projectile, no? There's your anti-air solution right there. Longfangs, Tacs, Heavy Weapon infantry squads, etcetera.

Lootas for Orks.

might be an expensive upgrade....

+15 per squad, hell yes
+15 per missile launcher, ummm no

Jidmah wrote:

scuddman wrote:I know it's not officially infantry, but can a ork grabba klaw kill a flyer? There's a line in the rulebook that says if a flyer can't move properly, it dies.

It can, but due to model dimensions, you'd have to drive the battlewagon right underneath the flier, barring MFA. 2" isn't that much.

tahts kind of brilliant... i might have to actually build my grabba claw .. i have 4 on the srpue still

Jidmah wrote:

Primestick wrote:If we have these now, Imagine in 38,000 years. I think they would have a shoulder fired man portable anti air that can hit fast movers by then

Keep in mind that about all technical progress the IoM has been making since the Horus Hersey is either "Look, we found ancient blueprints!" or some overly witty space marine putting more guns/armor/power into something they already had. Considering all the knowledge about tech that was lost to them, it wouldn't be surprising if they had that kind of missiles but can no longer build them.

it also might be that they can build it, but it simply costs them too much in the way of resources to field in effective numbers.
guided missiles costs around a million dollars in todays currency, while unguided rockets go for less than $100.

another explination is that IoM doctrine is against infantry mounted anit air. similar to the way virus bombing every renegade planet would be more cost effective but instead they choose to land troops and fight their way into ny impregnable fortresses instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

G00fySmiley wrote:

Jidmah wrote:

scuddman wrote:I know it's not officially infantry, but can a ork grabba klaw kill a flyer? There's a line in the rulebook that says if a flyer can't move properly, it dies.

It can, but due to model dimensions, you'd have to drive the battlewagon right underneath the flier, barring MFA. 2" isn't that much.

tahts kind of brilliant... i might have to actually build my grabba claw .. i have 4 on the srpue still

Dasey chain them all together to make one supaklaw!

Exergy wrote:

Jidmah wrote:

Primestick wrote:If we have these now, Imagine in 38,000 years. I think they would have a shoulder fired man portable anti air that can hit fast movers by then

Keep in mind that about all technical progress the IoM has been making since the Horus Hersey is either "Look, we found ancient blueprints!" or some overly witty space marine putting more guns/armor/power into something they already had. Considering all the knowledge about tech that was lost to them, it wouldn't be surprising if they had that kind of missiles but can no longer build them.

it also might be that they can build it, but it simply costs them too much in the way of resources to field in effective numbers.
guided missiles costs around a million dollars in todays currency, while unguided rockets go for less than $100.

another explination is that IoM doctrine is against infantry mounted anit air. similar to the way virus bombing every renegade planet would be more cost effective but instead they choose to land troops and fight their way into ny impregnable fortresses instead.

Virus bombing the planet effectively "kills" the planet, meaning the Imperium can't use it. Throwing some expendable guardsmen at the problem means they can.

AlmightyWalrus wrote: Virus bombing the planet effectively "kills" the planet, meaning the Imperium can't use it. Throwing some expendable guardsmen at the problem means they can.

Honestly, I'm surprised the fluff wouldn't hint at this spreading influence for Nurgle.

Because even Nurgle prefers sick people over dead people?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Exergy wrote:

Jidmah wrote:

Primestick wrote:If we have these now, Imagine in 38,000 years. I think they would have a shoulder fired man portable anti air that can hit fast movers by then

Keep in mind that about all technical progress the IoM has been making since the Horus Hersey is either "Look, we found ancient blueprints!" or some overly witty space marine putting more guns/armor/power into something they already had. Considering all the knowledge about tech that was lost to them, it wouldn't be surprising if they had that kind of missiles but can no longer build them.

it also might be that they can build it, but it simply costs them too much in the way of resources to field in effective numbers. guided missiles costs around a million dollars in todays currency, while unguided rockets go for less than $100. another explination is that IoM doctrine is against infantry mounted anit air. similar to the way virus bombing every renegade planet would be more cost effective but instead they choose to land troops and fight their way into ny impregnable fortresses instead.

Virus bombing the planet effectively "kills" the planet, meaning the Imperium can't use it. Throwing some expendable guardsmen at the problem means they can.

Not quite correct. The Ad Mech does do Terraforming operations on Exterminated worlds.

First up comparing modern real aa weapons with what is available in 40k is kinda silly, this is a table top board game were if a unit is made/used is balanced between rule of cool and game balance ( as subjective as these things are). Fact is people will want to build infantry only armies so eventually there will be a viable man portable aa weapon in the game, and as this thread is trying to point out there are infantry options.

Secondly virus bombing can take many forms and a virus could be made to attack only humans for instance and then die out after its job is done leaving a planet ready for use. Virus bombing would be a simple way to clean a planet but then we would not be playing 40k.