Assassins vs. Ghazghkull

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**Big Mek Wurrzog**

Kaldor wrote:
Ork Teen wrote:Ok, I'm pretty sure that Orks cannot get out of their Mega-Amour as they are wired in, in a very orkish manner. He would also still have a bodyguard while he is sleeping, if he can even sleep with all the WAAAGH! energy from the surrounding boys. Also, his adamantium skull has him protected from istant death, so you can drop all of the insta-death stuff that you want on top of him, and he will keep on laughing, and sending in more boys. Also, he has 4 wounds, a 2+ save due to the mega armour, and if he does 'Prophet of the Waaagh!' he also gets a 2+ invun save instead of his normal 5+... Take that imperium!!! It would be interesting to watch though...

Assassins are space ninjas. If they want to infiltrate somewhere, they infiltrate it. End of.

They'd just jab Ghazzy with some kind of super-rare anti-ork poison and he'd be dead.

clearly a mark of the ever-present Imperial propaganda, Don't you think the imperium would do this every time to every enemy? Of course they would but all people ninja or not have limits and Ghazghkull is if nothing else crafty he pulls maneuvers which prey on the inclination of all other races... which is to think they are smarter than an ork. It very well could be true, but the problem is in their Arrogance Ghazkull takes a cheapshot. Ghazkull first and foremost was tricked out by the crazed mad-dok grotsnik... a mad dok so insane he put bombs in the heads of various nobs to blow them up at various intervals for his amusement that blew large WMD style holes in the enemy. Ghazzy became the Mad Doks greatest achievement, you don't think he'd of altered his body, mind, physiology and armor designs? For the love of Zog the only green on the monster is a small chunk of his face and some joints, lets not forget that he is easily as large as a dreadnought in fluff.

The assassins will be running into many unknowns, such as the target's own biology being more than likely a fundamental cyborg with heavily altered orkinoid spores. Considering the Mad Dok is Ghazzy's right hand man i would say the prognosis of "super poison" just isn't going to work the dok will find a way to save his masterpiece. In close combat ghazzy would more than likely splattered even the sun star bombed evescerator assassin. This Warlord was known on a name basis by one of THE BEST commisars in all of Imperial space and entire chapters of space marines, legions of imperial guard and orkish infighting didn't stop Ghazzy from sewing his carnage on Armageddon infact it was all just a plan to drag the imperium into a long standing battle so he could cause more mischeif else where.

While I don't denote the merits of these assassins, Ghazzy has his own personal Tele-porta and outstanding goff clan support. Who is to say the Prophet of the Everlasting Waaaagh in his madness didn't just expect them on a hunch? too many variable and far too many on Ghazzy's side. I agree that fracturing Ghazzy's control is the more soundly option.

**Frazzled**

Da Butcha wrote:I think Ghaz, despite his fearsome reputation, would be fairly easy for an Imperial Assassin to take down (in the fluff, not in the TT). They have access to exotic ammunition and virulent toxins.

The problem is, however, that assassins are largely a weapon of civilized war.

A Vindicare should be able to move to a relatively safe, undisturbed position and seek out his target and strike them when vulnerable. During the sorts of actions where Ghaz is going to be on planet, 'boots on the ground', he's gonna be at the head of a massive scrum of orks, leading the Waaagh! He's going to be in the thickest fighting in an active warzone, not somewhere relatively calm, reviewing the troops, looking over maps, etc.

Same with a Callidus. She's supposed to infiltrate the enemy and attack the target when he's most vulnerable. Infiltrating the inner echelons of one of the most violent Ork Warlords is going to be insanely dangerous. Unlike Chaos cultists, or Eldar (any stripe), or even genestealers, Orks fight with each other even when at peace, and even then, in casual scuffles (not duels/tournaments/gladiatorial matches). Even though the Callidus might totally resemble an ork, down to the smell and texture, each of those casual encounters risks exposing her in a way that assuming the mantle of a renegade Commander's seneschal doesn't. Orks don't really have many positions of authority that scream "Don't mess with me". At least, not many positions of authority that don't require several hundred pounds of muscle she doesn't have. At the other end, a grot might be a good disguise, but might actually be too scrawny and skinny for the Eversor to emulate.

(Now I want a story where Makari was replaced with an Callidus, then sat upon before getting the chance to kill Ghaz...kind of a sequel to "Love Can Bloom" called "Whut's in Me Butt?)

The Eversor is unsubtle, and despite his herculean killing rate, I think he would just get swamped before even reaching Ghaz. Eversor aren't noted for their ability to pass unnoticed.

While the assassins are capable of taking out someone like Ghaz with their training and equipment, I think it would be really hard to actually get an assassin into position to be able to do so. That's probably why they sent so many operatives (just so that somebody, somewhere, might get a shot).

Just plant a tactical nuke...

**Pilau Rice**

Manchu wrote:Given the inherent connection Orks have to the Warp, one would think the Culexus would wreak real havoc on their ranks.

Are Orks more psychically attuned due to waagh energy than a regular human, as they are all connected by it I guess it would affect every orjk in the area. Maybe as Ghaz is possibly more psychic than your standard ork boy, the affect would be even worse?

**Manchu**

My theory is that all Orks are basically psykers. But they're not psykers in the sense we're used to thinking about. I think of them more like lightning rods. Every greenskin has the ability to generate and conduct at least a small amount of psychic energy. Some can generate and conduct far, far more -- like Weirdboyz and Mekboyz. This why Orks can literally "will" things into happening. The "red wunz" thing is probably the most famous but even the fact that they get bigger and stronger as they fight could be a sort of "psychic power" in itself. I've never heard of an instance of an ork blank or pariah, for example. I wonder if the Necrons every used them against the Eldar and Orks during the later stages of the War in Heaven.

**Pilau Rice**

Manchu wrote:My theory is that all Orks are basically psykers. But they're not psykers in the sense we're used to thinking about. I think of them more like lightning rods. Every greenskin has the ability to generate and conduct at least a small amount of psychic energy. Some can generate and conduct far, far more -- like Weirdboyz and Mekboyz. This why Orks can literally "will" things into happening. The "red wunz" thing is probably the most famous but even the fact that they get bigger and stronger as they fight could be a sort of "psychic power" in itself. I've never heard of an instance of an ork blank or pariah, for example. I wonder if the Necrons every used them against the Eldar and Orks during the later stages of the War in Heaven.

Hmm, interesting, but because of the Orks unique psychic ability would a pariah have the same affect? They don't harness the warp the same do they, they use WAAAGH energy?

Edit: Spellinz

**Manchu**

Is "Waagh! energy" even a thing? How is it different from the Warp?

**Pilau Rice**

Manchu wrote:Is "Waagh! energy" even a thing? How is it different from the Warp?

As I understood it it's from when you get a whole load of Orks in one place creating a large amount of energy and the psykers pull the energy they use in psychic powers from that.

**Manchu**

Well, no reason to believe it is qualitatively different from any other psychic energy then.

**purplefood**

IIRC Orks have a gestalt psychic field than increases as you add more Orks to it...
The Waaagh grows in power as more boys are added to it... i'm not sure there is a possible upper limit to be honest...
So yeah an Ork should be affected by a Eversor assassin...
Game balance means they don't I guess, you don't really see the whole Ork psychic field in-game.

**Big Mek Grodclog Mekgrim**

In fact, Weirdboyz and Warpheads aren't even physkers at all, they just collect the energy generated by the surrounding boyz and release it in what all the other races call physic powers; They're really just a lighting rod to harness the power of the Ork's collective energies. Going back to the topic of Ghazghkull, this is the PROPHET of MORK and GORK; anyone else not wrap their heads around this? He's got the brutality of Gork and the cunning of Mork. He's the one who single-handily plunged Armageddon into a state of everliving war the forces of more than 30 other Warlords of multiple empires (including the Crooked Moonz Tribe); all we need now is Khorne to show up and THEN we have a party. He's the

in' Warlord of the Goff Klan; the most militaristic Ork Klan in existence. Unlike the leaders of the pussy

Imperium, he leads his forces from the front (in both charismatic and Ork fashion) and alone can change the tide in battle. When the Third War of Armageddon began, over TWENTY Space Marine chapters responded; one of which was the ENTIRE Salamander's chapter, and they only have seven 120-man companies including their scout companies. Even three crusade companies of the Black Templars was there, and the Space Wolves sent three of their Great Companies as well. He is the frankenstein of Mad Dok Grotsnik, the crazed Ork who planted bombs in Nobz heads when they got cybork bodies from him, and blew them all up when they almost killed him. Ghazghkull's Grod is Yarrick, the savior of the Second War, a man who speaks both fluent Ork and wields a powerklaw from a Warboss he killed while fighting through the pain of his right arm cut off, and is hunting down Ghazghkull with the help of the Black Templars

On top of all this, you're telling me a

Imperial Assassin has what it takes to kill the greatest Ork Overlord that has done this much and LIVED?????? Bull

**Pilau Rice**

Manchu wrote:Well, no reason to believe it is qualitatively different from any other psychic energy then.

But it is kinda, it's an energy created specifically by orks and not affected by the warp. Culexus seem to only to bad stuff to creatures connected to the warp.

Big Mek Grodclog Mekgrim wrote:In fact, Weirdboyz and Warpheads aren't even physkers at all, they just collect the energy generated by the surrounding boyz and release it in what all the other races call physic powers; They're really just a lighting rod to harness the power of the Ork's collective energies.

Yeah, this.

Big Mek Grodclog Mekgrim wrote:
On top of all this, you're telling me a Imperial Assassin has what it takes to kill the greatest Ork Overlord that has done this much and LIVED?????? Bull

Maybe not an Eversor or a Callidus, but an Exitus could and we're in talks regarding the Culexus

**purplefood**

Yeah an assassin probably could do it...
They'd have to get a bit lucky but they probably could...
He isn't immortal just very hard to kill.

**Manchu**

Pilau Rice wrote:
Big Mek Grodclog Mekgrim wrote:In fact, Weirdboyz and Warpheads aren't even physkers at all, they just collect the energy generated by the surrounding boyz and release it in what all the other races call physic powers; They're really just a lighting rod to harness the power of the Ork's collective energies.
Yeah, this.

You mean like this?

Manchu wrote:My theory is that all Orks are basically psykers. But they're not psykers in the sense we're used to thinking about. I think of them more like lightning rods.

Hmm.

Pilau Rice wrote:
Manchu wrote:Well, no reason to believe it is qualitatively different from any other psychic energy then.
But it is kinda, it's an energy created specifically by orks and not affected by the warp.

Whoa there, that's not necessarily any different for humans in basic terms. Humans, too, generate psychic energy. Human psychic energy does not "build up" like a charge in the same way as Orks. But it's all psychic energy.

**Pilau Rice**

Manchu wrote:
Pilau Rice wrote:
Big Mek Grodclog Mekgrim wrote:In fact, Weirdboyz and Warpheads aren't even physkers at all, they just collect the energy generated by the surrounding boyz and release it in what all the other races call physic powers; They're really just a lighting rod to harness the power of the Ork's collective energies.
Yeah, this.
You mean like this?
Manchu wrote:My theory is that all Orks are basically psykers. But they're not psykers in the sense we're used to thinking about. I think of them more like lightning rods.
Hmm

Errr, yeeeeah, what you said, I think ... Grodclogs post seemed to explain what I was referring to better than your comment Manchu.

Manchu wrote:
Pilau Rice wrote:
Manchu wrote:Well, no reason to believe it is qualitatively different from any other psychic energy then.
But it is kinda, it's an energy created specifically by orks and not affected by the warp.
Whoa there, that's not necessarily any different for humans in basic terms. Humans, too, generate psychic energy. Human psychic energy does not "build up" like a charge in the same way as Orks. But it's all psychic energy.

Hmm, let me try to get this right, does Ork Waagh energy build up in the warp or is it its own phenomena that occurs due to the Orks themselves, sort of like the Shadow in the Warp? Like a Waaagh field.

**Manchu**

Assuming the materium in 40k works pretty much like real life, it's gotta be in the Warp.

Also, that is a false dichotomy. It can build up in the Warp and occur due to the Orks themselves. I mean, this is how other races' work (Eldar and Slaanesh, for example).

**Harriticus**

This assumption of "if the assassins wanted to get there, they could", is silly. Ghazghkull is no fool and has immense security around him.

**Big Mek Grodclog Mekgrim**

Okay, that is true about how the Warp could effect Weirdboyz, MY point was about how Ork Physkers are different than the other races in the category of how they get the energy. Also, yes, I understand Ghazghkull is not immortal, what I'm saying is this: you want to send a assassin designated for PHYSKERS take down the greatest Ork that has ever been in existence, most likely surrounded by Mega-Armored Nobz and Squig hounds....................Physker assassin people.

**DarknessEternal**

Harriticus wrote:This assumption of "if the assassins wanted to get there, they could", is silly. Ghazghkull is no fool and has immense security around him.

Which leaves only Vindicare as an option. But, as previously stated, the one thing on record as being totally unable to kill Ghaz is shooting him in the head.

**willhman**

purplefood wrote:
He isn't immortal just very hard to kill.

Oh really? How many space marine chapter masters do you know of that have survived a bolt round to the head?
I mean not even calgar has this fluff!!

**Coolyo294**

willhman wrote:
purplefood wrote:
He isn't immortal just very hard to kill.

Oh really? How many space marine chapter masters do you know of that have survived a bolt round to the head?
I mean not even calgar has this fluff!!

Uriel Ventris did and he's a captain...

**Bobthehero**

BLAM him with an Exitus rifle, just don't expect the Vindicare to make it alive is all.

Doesn't matter if the assassin dies after the target's dead.

**Big Mek Grodclog Mekgrim**

Anyone else noticing that people though that a assassin designated to kill enemy an rouge physkers were the ones they believed could take down Ghazghkull, a NON physker killing machine?

**Grey Templar**

The Culexus arn't just deadly to psykers, although they do have the greatest effect on them.

Culexus are "just wrong" to all normal beings, especially to a race that is psychically impegnated. So Orks and Eldar in particular will have issues around one.

They also have their own anti-psychic abilities. Their Bale-eye will kill just about any normal being.

**Decio**

doh, Deathstrike all of the Orks to hell.

**Bobthehero**

^
Use the Vindicare as a spotter and fling a Vortex Deathstrike or three at the right spot.

**willhman**

Coolyo294 wrote:
willhman wrote:
purplefood wrote:
He isn't immortal just very hard to kill.

Oh really? How many space marine chapter masters do you know of that have survived a bolt round to the head?
I mean not even calgar has this fluff!!
Uriel Ventris did and he's a captain...

Oh, I didnt know that. thanks!!

**Jayden63**

As a main problem with all of GW fluff, everything is bigger badder and more... well just more.

Assassins are uber ninjas with guns and abilitys that go beyond normal persons perceptions and imagination.

100 SM can passify a whole planet.

Exterminatus can destroy whole planets and the ordnance and logistics to do so are available at a moments notice.

Necrons can destroy whole star systems with the press of a glowing green button.

Towering bipedial robots walk without falling over.

IG regiments can drop 100,000 men in a single skirmish and yet those number are replaced daily for a protracted war that lasts years.

The Emperor eats 100 pycher souls a day. A psycher is found in 1 out of 1,000,000 or so people.

A single hive city contains as many people as whole planets have population.

My point is, Gazzy is just as OTT and ever living as the Emperor. Not because of worlds, population, or body guards. He just is because that is the way it is written. Besides, Gazzy is how old? How long has he been terrorizing the worlds of the IOM? The order of assassins is how old? Don't you think that if it would have been possible to kill Gazzy it would have happened by now?

Gazzy and the Orks are just something that is. No amount of fanboy fanfiction and super whatnots can change that. Because in the world of the Grim Dark, there has to be the ever present threat, nothing can change or stop it, otherwise it is no longer the Grim Dark. Everything that could possibly stop an assassin from killing him, has stopped an assassin from killing him, no matter how unlikely or logistically impractical.

**blazinpsycho&typhooni**

Gazzy is just like an Orky emprah, only person I can see killing him is probably his son X) or some other ork, don't see humans doing it any time soon

**Big Mek Grodclog Mekgrim**

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Gazzy is just like an Orky emprah, only person I can see killing him is probably his son X) or some other ork, don't see humans doing it any time soon

We have to remember that Orks reproduce asexually, and if a Ork could beat Ghazghkull; wouldn't we have seem that?

**Miraclefish**

A Vindicare is the only one which could feasably cause him any harm.

And even then...

He's a seven metre-tall behemoth, the size of an Astartes Dreadnought and as tough as one, too. If she can even find an open patch of flesh to hit, or if the round doesn't ricochet off, whatever toxin or compound is released into his body has the unimaginably basic and relentless physique of one of the biggest, toughest Orks ever to have existed to fight with.

Yes, it could flood him with a virus or poison.... but Orks can have entire limbs blown off and stitched back on, they live for a fair while after they die out of sheer ignorance and that's just a regular boy.

This is da profet of da Waaaaaagh!