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Reading through the forces sent to Armageddon by the imperium, I saw that the Officio Assassinorum was listed as having sent agents, although how many was classified. This made me wonder how many assassins it would take to kill Ghazghkull, as I can't imagine that they would go for other targets but he seems incredibly hard to take down. I was also wondering whether they would work together to take out such a target, or work at it seperately.

Ghazghkull could probably take any single assassin 1 on 1, though Assassins are extremely dangerous. I remember the bit in Soul Hunter where a Callidus assassin considers a lone space marine to be no threat whatsoever. Then again, Ghazgshkull could easily crush a single marine as well I think.

Harriticus wrote:Ghazghkull could probably take any single assassin 1 on 1, though Assassins are extremely dangerous. I remember the bit in Soul Hunter where a Callidus assassin considers a lone space marine to be no threat whatsoever. Then again, Ghazgshkull could easily crush a single marine as well I think.

I doubt that either would find a space marine a problem, but I think Ghazghkull would probably still find an assassin quite an easy target, unless the assassin has everything the way s/he wants it, for example a powerful rifle and a good sniping position, with Ghazghkull never knowing he's in danger.

The main problem here is that A assasin needs to get close to Ghazghkull to kill him, but they would have to get past all the orks, The orks have kommandos and squigs to help protect him. Finally we have Ghazghkull himself. They cant shoor him cause of his head and armor. That means that they need to get upclose to use their more powerfull weapons. But then that means Nobz and Ghazghkull himself. No matter how you look at it Ghazghkull is just to well protected to actually Get killed by assasins,at least to me anyways.

One Vindicare is all you need

Grey Templar wrote:One Vindicare is all you need

You spelled vindicator wrong.

No I did'nt

Grey Templar wrote:One Vindicare is all you need

Tankbusta slash kommandoes will take care of it easy

Ghaz could take a shot to the dome from a vindicare and keep ticking. Unless the first shot killed him, he'd be either mounting in a wagon to head towards the shot or just having his boyz for a wall around him.

But to answer your question, no amount of assassins can kill Ghazzy because he has the all important "plot" armor.

willhman wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:One Vindicare is all you need

Tankbusta slash kommandoes will take care of it easy

All it takes is one shell on top of the dude, really...

Oh but I was forgetting about plot armour

I think Ghaz, despite his fearsome reputation, would be fairly easy for an Imperial Assassin to take down (in the fluff, not in the TT). They have access to exotic ammunition and virulent toxins.

The problem is, however, that assassins are largely a weapon of civilized war.

A Vindicare should be able to move to a relatively safe, undisturbed position and seek out his target and strike them when vulnerable. During the sorts of actions where Ghaz is going to be on planet, 'boots on the ground', he's gonna be at the head of a massive scrum of orks, leading the Waaagh! He's going to be in the thickest fighting in an active warzone, not somewhere relatively calm, reviewing the troops, looking over maps, etc.

Same with a Callidus. She's supposed to infiltrate the enemy and attack the target when he's most vulnerable. Infiltrating the inner echelons of one of the most violent Ork Warlords is going to be insanely dangerous. Unlike Chaos cultists, or Eldar (any stripe), or even genestealers, Orks fight with each other even when at peace, and even then, in casual scuffles (not duels/tournaments/gladiatorial matches). Even though the Callidus might totally resemble an ork, down to the smell and texture, each of those casual encounters risks exposing her in a way that assuming the mantle of a renegade Commander's seneschal doesn't. Orks don't really have many positions of authority that scream "Don't mess with me". At least, not many positions of authority that don't require several hundred pounds of muscle she doesn't have. At the other end, a grot might be a good disguise, but might actually be too scrawny and skinny for the Eversor to emulate.

(Now I want a story where Makari was replaced with an Callidus, then sat upon before getting the chance to kill Ghaz...kind of a sequel to "Love Can Bloom" called "Whut's in Me Butt?)

The Eversor is unsubtle, and despite his herculean killing rate, I think he would just get swamped before even reaching Ghaz. Eversor aren't noted for their ability to pass unnoticed.

While the assassins are capable of taking out someone like Ghaz with their training and equipment, I think it would be really hard to actually get an assassin into position to be able to do so. That's probably why they sent so many operatives (just so that somebody, somewhere, might get a shot).

This is assuming all the assassins were sent to kill Ghazghkull...
A more effective and far easier use of their skills would be to kill off his lieutenants and the lesser chieftans of the waaagh.
It won't stop it but it would cripple the attacks on various targets and also effectively help hold up the waaagh while giving Imperial forces time to regroup and re-arm if needed.

p_gray99 wrote:Reading through the forces sent to Armageddon by the imperium, I saw that the Officio Assassinorum was listed as having sent agents, although how many was classified. This made me wonder how many assassins it would take to kill Ghazghkull, as I can't imagine that they would go for other targets but he seems incredibly hard to take down. I was also wondering whether they would work together to take out such a target, or work at it seperately.

I imagine it would be like when a team was sent to take out Horus, one of each of them would go, with the Vindicare as team leader, like in this book

Da Butcha wrote:
The Eversor is unsubtle, and despite his herculean killing rate, I think he would just get swamped before even reaching Ghaz. Eversor aren't noted for their ability to pass unnoticed.

I'd think an eversor would probably be the easiest one to sneak in considering they're all fighty fighty. He'd just look like a tricked out ork

But seriously, an eversor would probably wipe out all the nobs around ghazghkull but plot armour would probably save ghazghkull from having to get a new arm or something

Well, lets walk through the 4 major temples.

Culexus: Unless a weirdboy happens to be exploded by the evil eye while right next to Ghazghkull... in all seriousness, it's not gonna happen

Eversor: Is designed for shock and awe, as well as indescriminate killing. Unfortuneatly, trying to shock and awe the green tide hasn't worked well in the past The only way an eversor could pull off the kill would be by causing such a ruckus that Ghaz would show up to fight the beserker of the imperium.

Callidus: Da Butcha covered this one nicely. It is very hard to infiltrate an organization that lacks a clear system of rank, or any sort of schedules, rituals, or inspections. You're as likely to spot Ghaz on the front line or disguised as one of the Boyz as trying to imitate a warboss.

Vindicare: This one actually has half a chance. Ghaz commonly leads from the front, and exposes himself to fire. A Vindicare's Exitus Rifle can blow through a Land Raider; Ghaz won't be able to stop the bullet with armour. She is a highly trained markswoman; She will not miss, and she will not be blocked by a common Nob reducing LOS, especially considering the height of Ghazghkull. If it wern't for plot armour, Ghaz would be in serious trouble.

Remember that there are other temples, many of which are unknown to anyone but the Lords of Terra. I doubt Ghaz will be poisoned, but he could be betrayed by a rival warboss. This matches one of the temple descriptions(not sure which one), which uses strategy to kill it's marks.

I agree with the consensus here, Vindicare is the only one that stands a decent chance, but it's still extremely difficult to get in a position to do so.

How exactly to you get to firing position unnoticed, in a sea of orks, with a target with no real schedule or command structure? Next to the Tyrandis and possibly Necrons, the Orks are uniquely resistant to infiltration.

Plot armor does not even come into it, in my opinion, the guy is the pinnacle of an entire race bread for toughness and war, I have no doubt he could take an eversor one on one, though he might lose some bits. That being said, given what we know about the Ork's psychic gestalt powers making things work, and that Gazzy is considered a prophet of their gods, he might have literal plot armor. As in, an entire psychic race that can make things work by seer belief believes that he can't die, so he cant.

It would take one. Because he would wait until Ghazghkull was asleep, then poke him with a poisoned weapon. Or just shoot him with a poisoned projectile from a long way away.

Ok, I'm pretty sure that Orks cannot get out of their Mega-Amour as they are wired in, in a very orkish manner. He would also still have a bodyguard while he is sleeping, if he can even sleep with all the WAAAGH! energy from the surrounding boys. Also, his adamantium skull has him protected from istant death, so you can drop all of the insta-death stuff that you want on top of him, and he will keep on laughing, and sending in more boys. Also, he has 4 wounds, a 2+ save due to the mega armour, and if he does 'Prophet of the Waaagh!' he also gets a 2+ invun save instead of his normal 5+... Take that imperium!!! It would be interesting to watch though...

Ork Teen wrote:Ok, I'm pretty sure that Orks cannot get out of their Mega-Amour as they are wired in, in a very orkish manner. He would also still have a bodyguard while he is sleeping, if he can even sleep with all the WAAAGH! energy from the surrounding boys. Also, his adamantium skull has him protected from istant death, so you can drop all of the insta-death stuff that you want on top of him, and he will keep on laughing, and sending in more boys. Also, he has 4 wounds, a 2+ save due to the mega armour, and if he does 'Prophet of the Waaagh!' he also gets a 2+ invun save instead of his normal 5+... Take that imperium!!! It would be interesting to watch though...

Assassins are space ninjas. If they want to infiltrate somewhere, they infiltrate it. End of.

They'd just jab Ghazzy with some kind of super-rare anti-ork poison and he'd be dead.

I think the best possible solution would be to tell the Evil Sunz that Ghazghkull said "dat lot of squishy gits couldn't beat up me pet squig!" The ensuing fight would destroy large swaths of the galaxy, including parts of the Imperium, but would either leave Ghaz dead or sufficiently low on manpower, allowing a tactical assasinorum strikeforce the opening to perform the assasination. Note that, in extreme cases, Strikeforces numbering up to 5 assasins can be sent out to eliminate a target(s). These are always from the same temple, so no mixing and matching. Five Vindicares shooting at the same target can destroy a titan; Ghazghkull WOULD die... For that matter, Why not just send in an Emperor's Wrath class Titan to do the job? I don't want to see the thing that beast can't kill...

Justicar_Thunderflanks wrote:I think the best possible solution would be to tell the Evil Sunz that Ghazghkull said "dat lot of squishy gits couldn't beat up me pet squig!"

A nice idea in theory, but it forgets the first rule about ork command structures. The bigger ork makes the rules and everyone else falls in line. If they don't, they get whacked on the head. It is a brutally efficient system in their society.

I think a vinidicare assassin stands a chance, but given ork physiology one has to wonder if a shot that can penetrate a land raider will really be enough. This is the same ork who as a boy took a bolter round to the head and not only lived to tell the tale but became the largest and most fearsome ork of the current era. Still a really small chance is better than the absolutely 0 chance the other assassins have.

what fans of Assassins see:
another target that's an easier kill than 2 lesser warbosses

what Assassns see:
billions of monster that have waged war against every flavour of the Imperium and Xenos and come in a million shades of green death. they must find one important green monster amongst them all.

Generals know Ork are predictable. Assassins can't deal with the problem like the Generals can.

Kaldor wrote:

Ork Teen wrote:Ok, I'm pretty sure that Orks cannot get out of their Mega-Amour as they are wired in, in a very orkish manner. He would also still have a bodyguard while he is sleeping, if he can even sleep with all the WAAAGH! energy from the surrounding boys. Also, his adamantium skull has him protected from istant death, so you can drop all of the insta-death stuff that you want on top of him, and he will keep on laughing, and sending in more boys. Also, he has 4 wounds, a 2+ save due to the mega armour, and if he does 'Prophet of the Waaagh!' he also gets a 2+ invun save instead of his normal 5+... Take that imperium!!! It would be interesting to watch though...

Assassins are space ninjas. If they want to infiltrate somewhere, they infiltrate it. End of.

They'd just jab Ghazzy with some kind of super-rare anti-ork poison and he'd be dead.

Oh yeah? well Ghazzy is the ork version of chuck norris... end of it.

How woulld they get close enough? They have kommandos and squig hounds and grots and boys and all other stuff.

Also if he got hit by five vindicare assasins and they downed him on the first shot then, all the ork boys will charge them and the doks will fix him up with a cybork bod which I think he already has, remeber an ork can be "dead" for hours before they actually die.

purplefood wrote:This is assuming all the assassins were sent to kill Ghazghkull...

OMG, you just made me think of something here.

A dark truth has been revealed by this thread!

IA: Celestial Lions

The Celestial Lions were highly vocal in their condemnation of the Inquisitor's actions and began a series of loud and highly public criticisms of him and the entire Inquisition.

The Inquisition answers to no-one but the Emperor himself.

Intelligence provided to them on the Orks strength and disposition proved to be woefully inaccurate and each battle found the Space Marines vastly outnumbered and cut off from support. Several of the higher ranking officers within the Chapter began to suspect that this was deliberate, but could prove nothing and had no choice but to continue their attacks on the Orks as before.

Unerringly accurate sniper fire from the mountains blasted through the camp, relentlessly targeting the Chapter's Apothecaries.

Only ninety six brothers of the Celestial Lions survived, and even worse, the last of the Chapter's Apothecaries took a bullet in the head within hours of arriving at Hive Volcanus.

By the Emperor, don't upset the Inquisition ...

Oddly enough, the Officio Assassinorum doesn't answer to the Inquisition but the High Lords. The Inquisition petitions for the use of Assassins, they are very valuable tools.

Grey Templar wrote:Oddly enough, the Officio Assassinorum doesn't answer to the Inquisition but the High Lords. The Inquisition petitions for the use of Assassins, they are very valuable tools.

No, but an Inquisitor can obtain the services of an Assassin should it be required fairly easily, I would imagine.

Anyway, don't steal my thunder you!

On topic, I think Ghazghkull could handle any assassin bar a Vindicare, but the Gork and Mork wouldn't let the Prophet go done so easily.

Wonder what effect a Culexus assassin would have on Greenskins, if any

Given the inherent connection Orks have to the Warp, one would think the Culexus would wreak real havoc on their ranks.

Shooting Ghazghkull in the head once was what made him the terror he is today. Would the Imperium really risk shooting him in the head again?

Don't forget that the Eldar, the masters of manipulating other races to do their bidding, want Gazzy in a position of power because his ambitions are towards the Imperium and not the Eldar as other warlords have been. I'm sure they manipulate things through their farseeing to make sure Gazzy stays in power.

After all, they are the reason Gazzy is as powerful as he is in the first place. They attacked the world where Gazzy was when he was still just a nob and slew the other warlord that had ambitions to attack the Eldar, and they knew the ensuing power struggle would put Gazzy in place. And they knew he had ambitions to attack the imperium.

Fluff-wise Ghaz would never die because he is protected by Gork AND Mork. I think Ghaz is the only living thing to be blessed by both the Ork gods.

Don't forget either how resilient Orks are. If any part of him (save his adamantium head) was to be blown off or shot... there are a line of Orks waiting to give him the needed body parts.

While all Orks are connected psychically, I do not believe that it is a connection that uses the warp at all so I am not sure exactly what a Culexus Assassin would do really. I think of the Ork Waaaggh power as more like a metal static electricity which fits with the older fluff where Ork warpheads had copper staves to ground themselves.