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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 09:00:50
Subject: The London Olympics 2012
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Henners91 wrote:If I hear 'our boys' again I'm going to vomit.
All I did was partly fund Team GB through taxes. The Olympics should focus on individual athletes' success, not some nationalistic farce. It is, at the end of the day, a contest between INDIVIDUALS.
But it's not just about individuals, take Andy Murray for example, he said he watched the athletics the night before his final, he said the center court support was fantastic. He then put in his best performance ever against one of the top 3. Could just be a coincidence, but I'd say it's quite likely he was so pumped up because of how well Team GB were doing, and the more vocal crowd at the Olympics. Of course it's not just about individuals. And anyway it is about individual succes, otherwise we'd just move on as soon as an individual won and not think of them again.
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DC:90-S+G++M--B++I+pW40k08+D++A++/eWD257R++t(S)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 09:13:55
Subject: Re:The London Olympics 2012
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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Amaya wrote:I can't believe no Brits have mentioned that Zoe Smith broke the UK's women's 58kg clean and jerk record. She CJed 121KGs, about 270lbs...and she's only 5'3" 120 or so. She hasn't been lifting for long, she might be a medal contender by 2016.
I knew about that but mainly as a source for dirty jokes...
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
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"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 17:05:17
Subject: Re:The London Olympics 2012
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Fixture of Dakka
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I'm completely shocked at the reactions of some of you.
The Olympics are completely amazing, and are a great way for countries to come together and compete in a way where no one dies.
I believe the UN Security Council should just be made up of the top 5 countries from the previous Olympics. And, countries that don't win a single gold medal don't count as real countries (I'm looking at you Belgium and Norway!)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 17:09:53
Subject: The London Olympics 2012
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I've been watching quite a bit of the Olympics.
I'm not a fan of the "activities" like table tennis and syncronized swimming, though.
Speaking of which, why the feth do all of the syncronized swimmers look so fething scary?!?
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DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 17:17:28
Subject: The London Olympics 2012
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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Yeah but they don't "come together" competative sports ENCOURAGE hatred! Its the exact opposite of what the press tell everyone! Look at football or Rugby or Cricket. England V Scotland don't compete in friendship and love and happiness, it basically turns into rampant jingoism and flag waving. The crowd get whipped into a frenzy about how much better their country is and then they beat each other up after the game!
As I said, I'm a miserable fether, but when you take off the rose tinted glasses its hard not to be cynical. It doesn't upset me though, I fething loved it in Afghanistan, I revel in hatred and war, I just think we should be realistic. Human beings are tribal and confrontational, so we get our kicks with sports these days becayse nobody dies. Saying they encourage friendship is utterly delusional. It is 100% total nonsense. Look at Russia V US during the cold war.. it was like war via proxy whenever they competed at anything.
I also think sports fans like to cheer so much because it makes weak people feel better about themselves when their countrymen win things, because they suck at life.
I mean look at all the chicken hawks, especially in the US/ UK. How many people go "Oh WE won in Iraq" and boast about their military, but they never served. They just like to brag about their country or their grand parents. I respect doers not sayers. I admire a serving soldier in a rear echelon more than I admre the kids of a medal of honour winner. Or a Norwegian Olympian who comes 7th more than a British civilian who supports the British team and works in a call centre, I don't care how feverently they cheer. What the feth did they do to earn any plaudits?!
I also note that for the first three days nobody in the UK gave a feth about the Olympics. All these Johnny come latelys must think Matty doesn't have a Facebook account!
The first three days it was all "TEAM GB SUCK" and "Who cares about the Olympics" then they hit double figures and its Olympic fever... what a pile of gak!
I at least will remain aloof and disinterested, I don't give a feth if they over take China and the USA and a London tramp wins the 100 meters in 2016.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/06 17:19:20
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 17:21:42
Subject: Re:The London Olympics 2012
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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purplefood wrote:Amaya wrote:I can't believe no Brits have mentioned that Zoe Smith broke the UK's women's 58kg clean and jerk record. She CJed 121KGs, about 270lbs...and she's only 5'3" 120 or so. She hasn't been lifting for long, she might be a medal contender by 2016.
I knew about that but mainly as a source for dirty jokes... My friend got a picture with her while she (Zoe) was mooching around outside the olympic venues. Quite funny as he is well over 6ft and a well built (well, he is pretty chunky but with plenty of muscle underneath  ) waterpolo player and she could probably pick him up and snap him like a twig
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/06 17:22:39
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 17:24:39
Subject: The London Olympics 2012
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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kronk wrote:I've been watching quite a bit of the Olympics.
I'm not a fan of the "activities" like table tennis and syncronized swimming, though.
Speaking of which, why the feth do all of the syncronized swimmers look so fething scary?!?

*dons wtf goggles*
 What.
What is... with her spine... looks like she's a snake...
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 17:27:35
Subject: The London Olympics 2012
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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Melissia wrote:kronk wrote:I've been watching quite a bit of the Olympics.
I'm not a fan of the "activities" like table tennis and syncronized swimming, though.
Speaking of which, why the feth do all of the syncronized swimmers look so fething scary?!?

*dons wtf goggles*
 What.
What is... with her spine... looks like she's a snake...
I think thats another chick Mel.
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We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 17:28:40
Subject: The London Olympics 2012
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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Melissia wrote:What is... with her spine... looks like she's a snake...
I think that was probably the costume for their routine. Though why, I have no idea.
Personally I don't think that anything subjectively scored should be at the olympics.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 17:30:50
Subject: The London Olympics 2012
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Is that just one person, or two?
Becuase it looks distorted if it's one...
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 17:35:47
Subject: The London Olympics 2012
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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Two people. One is face down in the water, the other is... well... doing whatever the hell it is she is doing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 17:38:33
Subject: The London Olympics 2012
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Two people.
I started to imagine that this was two people undulating to appear like the snake they have on their uniforms.
Then I realized I was thinking about two women undulating in a swimming pool together and started giggling.
Back to the Olympics: Women's Beach Volleyball. I can't NOT watch it!
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DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 17:44:52
Subject: Re:The London Olympics 2012
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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Grakmar wrote:And, countries that don't win a single gold medal don't count as real countries (I'm looking at you Belgium and Norway!)
Norway's won gold medals the last 4 or so summer Olympics and they absolutely dominate the winter games, considering their size.
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 18:41:24
Subject: The London Olympics 2012
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Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
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mattyrm wrote:
I also think sports fans like to cheer so much because it makes weak people feel better about themselves when their countrymen win things, because they suck at life.
Yes, everyone else is weak and you are strong because you don't enjoy anything. Good for you. That must be immensely fulfilling, whinging about everything. It's a sign of strength, after all.
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Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 18:44:16
Subject: The London Olympics 2012
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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In defense of table tennis, that sport can wear you out.
I do agree that there are sports, and there are competitions at the Olympics.
I'm going to learn how to curl next month, I might become an Olympic athlete yet!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 18:58:41
Subject: Re:The London Olympics 2012
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Nimble Goblin Wolf Rider
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Did a batch of radioactive Daily Mails get loose and start biting people. Doubt theres enough cheese in the world to compliment this whine fest.
People moan when Britains bad at sport, people moan when Britains good at sport. Whats the obsession some people have in this Country with wallowing in self-inflicted misery
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 18:59:41
Subject: Re:The London Olympics 2012
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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Edit.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/08/06 19:18:02
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 19:12:47
Subject: Re:The London Olympics 2012
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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Matty's got the right of it for the most part. Nationalistic sports pride is really pointless. The medal count even more so.
If someone has interesting story, is an exceptional athlete, or is in a sport I give a feth about I might pay attention, but such feelings cross national boundaries.
I don't give a damn that America didn't get the gold in the 100m, I'm more impressed that Bolt beat the competition by about two strides. Fething amazing finishing photo.
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Read my story at:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/515293.page#5420356
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 19:17:18
Subject: Re:The London Olympics 2012
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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cpt_fishcakes wrote:Did a batch of radioactive Daily Mails get loose and start biting people. Doubt theres enough cheese in the world to compliment this whine fest.
People moan when Britains bad at sport, people moan when Britains good at sport. Whats the obsession some people have in this Country with wallowing in self-inflicted misery
To be fair mate, I don't think its people, I think its just me.
I mean, I don't see any other fether complaining do you? So you should direct your comments at me, everyone else is on the "pro olympic" team.
And im not wallowing in self pityl, that's probably the point. I feel great, I never get depressed or lonely.. I've got the night off, I've been to the gym, im fething about on the internet, I might do some painting, Ive got too much gak I want to do for myself so I cant be fethed with the Olympics.. maybe the miserable people are the ones that have feth all better to do but watch TV and pat themselves on the back for the accomplishments of others?
Albatross wrote:mattyrm wrote:
I also think sports fans like to cheer so much because it makes weak people feel better about themselves when their countrymen win things, because they suck at life.
Yes, everyone else is weak and you are strong because you don't enjoy anything. Good for you. That must be immensely fulfilling, whinging about everything. It's a sign of strength, after all.
Well enlighten me, why do you feel better when a stranger from Liverpool wins a medal but feel nothing when a stranger from Hamburg does?
If you are on the fething dole and your son has got hepatitis, what the feth do you care about the Olympics? Ive always just thought there is more important gak to worry about and over enthusiasm for being a fan is just a distraction.
I guess you are either massively into sports or you aren't. As you are well aware, I don't really support England in the football either. I couldnt give a gak what those clowns get up to, because I feel no better or no worse depending on their fortunes, it has nothing whatsoever to do with me.
I haven't watched an Olympic event and I wont see one because I get nothing from it. If you do then good luck to you, but I really dont understand the whole thing. Why did you seem to take it personally what I said about fans cheering so much? Clearly some people do feel better about themselves when team GB wins a medal, but really, what has it got to do with them?
And as I said, the general public and the press going from utter disinterest to sudden joy after Team GB started winning is as blatantly obvious as it is amusing.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/06 19:17:48
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 19:24:51
Subject: The London Olympics 2012
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Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle
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mattyrm wrote:Yeah but they don't "come together" competative sports ENCOURAGE hatred! Its the exact opposite of what the press tell everyone! Look at football or Rugby or Cricket. England V Scotland don't compete in friendship and love and happiness, it basically turns into rampant jingoism and flag waving. The crowd get whipped into a frenzy about how much better their country is and then they beat each other up after the game!
You can tell you haven't watched any of the olympics. I would hardly call it encouraging hatred when the cheers for other countrys are almost as loud as the cheers for the UK. When Murry and his partner lost the doubles they cheerd and clapped for the winners. There has been no sign of hatred at all.
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insaniak wrote:Sometimes, Exterminatus is the only option.
And sometimes, it's just a case of too much scotch combined with too many buttons... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 19:27:08
Subject: The London Olympics 2012
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I cheered against the Chinese Badminton team. I even drank against them. Multiple times, to show my total scorn.
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DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 19:27:26
Subject: The London Olympics 2012
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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Steve steveson wrote:mattyrm wrote:Yeah but they don't "come together" competative sports ENCOURAGE hatred! Its the exact opposite of what the press tell everyone! Look at football or Rugby or Cricket. England V Scotland don't compete in friendship and love and happiness, it basically turns into rampant jingoism and flag waving. The crowd get whipped into a frenzy about how much better their country is and then they beat each other up after the game!
You can tell you haven't watched any of the olympics. I would hardly call it encouraging hatred when the cheers for other countrys are almost as loud as the cheers for the UK. When Murry and his partner lost the doubles they cheerd and clapped for the winners. There has been no sign of hatred at all.
Its because the Olympics is dear as feth and as a result pleasant middle/upper class people attend.
If the whole world was full of pleasent middle class people everything would be alright, but it isn't.
Go watch some chavy sports like football and see what happens. feth me, how many people got stabbed at the Euros!?
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We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 19:41:19
Subject: The London Olympics 2012
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Courageous Grand Master
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I usually start a thread for the football tournaments, but I was away when the Olympics started, so I'm glad somebody took up the slack!
If you are British and pay your taxes, or have bought a lottery ticket in the last 7 years, then you have contributed to the London Olympics. That gives you the right to moan, moan, and moan again. It is the right of every Englishman (and woman) to be a miserable git
Doubly so for me - I've paid my taxes and served my country. When it comes to the London Olympics - my word is gospel
On a final note, I feel sorry for the North Korean guy who lost out on a medal - ten years in the salt mines for him (if he's lucky)
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"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 19:45:01
Subject: The London Olympics 2012
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
On a final note, I feel sorry for the North Korean guy who lost out on a medal - ten years in the salt mines for him (if he's lucky)
Hey I was wrong, the Olympics HAS made me feel better!
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We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 19:49:28
Subject: The London Olympics 2012
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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I admire the Games Maker volunteers.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 20:09:05
Subject: The London Olympics 2012
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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Hey look, Morrisey agrees with me.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/08/06/morrissey-blasts-olympics-royals-nazi-germany_n_1747031.html
I am unable to watch the Olympics due to the blustering jingoism that drenches the event. Has England ever been quite so foul with patriotism? The "dazzling royals" have, quite naturally, hi-jacked the Olympics for their own empirical needs, and no oppositional voice is allowed in the free press. It is lethal to witness.
As London is suddenly promoted as a super-wealth brand, the England outside London shivers beneath cutbacks, tight circumstances and economic disasters. Meanwhile the British media present 24-hour coverage of the 'dazzling royals', laughing as they lavishly spend, as if such coverage is certain to make British society feel fully whole. In 2012, the British public is evidently assumed to be undersized pigmies, scarcely able to formulate thought.
As I recently drove through Greece I noticed repeated graffiti seemingly everywhere on every available wall. In large blue letters it said WAKE UP WAKE UP. It could almost have been written with the British public in mind, because although the spirit of 1939 Germany now pervades throughout media-brand Britain, the 2013 grotesque inevitability of Lord and Lady Beckham (with Sir Jamie Horrible close at heel) is, believe me, a fate worse than life. WAKE UP WAKE UP.
Sadly, I think Mozza is a tit. :(
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We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 20:27:34
Subject: Re:The London Olympics 2012
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Nimble Goblin Wolf Rider
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With reports of the French Team kicking into full scale moaning mode over GBs cycling success, I was browsing through some French news sites to see what they were saying.
There full of complaining about last years riots, Boris Johnson being a clown, athletes not being born in Britain etc. This line from Le Monde stood out
“Mo Farah, the god of 10,000 meters who was born in Somalia and Andy Murray, a native of a country even more remote and wild, Scotland, are excluded from the real British Virgin club.”
They just compares Scotland to Somalia the swines
Not quite sure what the British Virgin Club is though, but I can imagine Andy Murrays quite happy not being a member
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 20:45:18
Subject: The London Olympics 2012
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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Well, me and Alby had a little spat about that earlier in the thread.. Mo Farrah isn't British is he!?
A practising Muslim who was BORN in Mogadishu, and couldn't speak a word of English when he arrived aged 8..the clue is in the title surely? If I went to China aged 8 and couldn't speak a word of Mandarin I wouldn't be Chinese now would I!? Id be a hairy white bloke who happened to live In China for a bit.
If he was currently up for armed robbery everyone would be after deporting him, but no no, gold medal, he's as British as jellied eels me old China.
I despise hypocrisy, and I know for a fact almost everyone (and me obviously) I would be slagging him off and saying we should deport him if he had done something awful... so I must stick by my guns and say that the good must go as well.
That gold medal belongs to Somalia.
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We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 21:01:36
Subject: The London Olympics 2012
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Powerful Pegasus Knight
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mattyrm wrote:Hey look, Morrisey agrees with me.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/08/06/morrissey-blasts-olympics-royals-nazi-germany_n_1747031.html
I am unable to watch the Olympics due to the blustering jingoism that drenches the event. Has England ever been quite so foul with patriotism? The "dazzling royals" have, quite naturally, hi-jacked the Olympics for their own empirical needs, and no oppositional voice is allowed in the free press. It is lethal to witness.
As London is suddenly promoted as a super-wealth brand, the England outside London shivers beneath cutbacks, tight circumstances and economic disasters. Meanwhile the British media present 24-hour coverage of the 'dazzling royals', laughing as they lavishly spend, as if such coverage is certain to make British society feel fully whole. In 2012, the British public is evidently assumed to be undersized pigmies, scarcely able to formulate thought.
As I recently drove through Greece I noticed repeated graffiti seemingly everywhere on every available wall. In large blue letters it said WAKE UP WAKE UP. It could almost have been written with the British public in mind, because although the spirit of 1939 Germany now pervades throughout media-brand Britain, the 2013 grotesque inevitability of Lord and Lady Beckham (with Sir Jamie Horrible close at heel) is, believe me, a fate worse than life. WAKE UP WAKE UP.
This is the same guy who released a song five years ago about how America would never have a black president. Utter moron.
mattyrm wrote:Sadly, I think Mozza is a tit. :(
Can't imagine it would spoil your friendship.
EDIT: Wow, check out how much better this thread looks with Mattyrm on ignore. It's like I just dunked a baneblade with a slowed chimp's paintjob into a tub of simple green.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/06 21:19:21
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/06 21:33:26
Subject: Re:The London Olympics 2012
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Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
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mattyrm wrote:Well enlighten me, why do you feel better when a stranger from Liverpool wins a medal but feel nothing when a stranger from Hamburg does?
Because that stranger from Liverpool is representing my country. I would have thought that was obvious. You support Middlesbrough. Why, if where the team is from is of no consequence to you? It's not like they're a good team.
Ah, I think I've solved the mystery. Supporting a team that wins would mean that you'd have to join in and celebrate with everyone else, participating in the shared enjoyment of something for it's own sake.
If you are on the fething dole and your son has got hepatitis, what the feth do you care about the Olympics? Ive always just thought there is more important gak to worry about and over enthusiasm for being a fan is just a distraction.
I don't think it's a zero-sum situation. You can enjoy a national sporting spectacle and also do other things that are more important. In fact, have you considered that the olympics may even be a welcome momentary distraction for people in that situation?
I guess you are either massively into sports or you aren't. As you are well aware, I don't really support England in the football either. I couldnt give a gak what those clowns get up to, because I feel no better or no worse depending on their fortunes, it has nothing whatsoever to do with me.
Well, I have my theories on that, but I'll keep them to myself.
I haven't watched an Olympic event and I wont see one because I get nothing from it. If you do then good luck to you, but I really dont understand the whole thing. Why did you seem to take it personally what I said about fans cheering so much?
Well, this:
mattyrm wrote:I also think sports fans like to cheer so much because it makes weak people feel better about themselves when their countrymen win things, because they suck at life.
..is actually pretty offensive to anyone who enjoys cheering on their national team. I don't consider myself a weak person who sucks at life because I enjoy cheering our sportspeople on. That's a ridiculously ignorant statement to make, Matt. You don't get it, fine.
That doesn't make the literally millions of people who do losers.
And as I said, the general public and the press going from utter disinterest to sudden joy after Team GB started winning is as blatantly obvious as it is amusing.
Yes, it must be really amusing to not expect to enjoy something and then be proven right. The rest of us who were initially fairly indifferent, but are now quite enjoying the olympics, are a right bunch of mugs. Looks like you win. Enjoy your 'victory'.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/06 21:34:31
Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
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