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I just think it is good that for 2 weeks out of the year we can put aside the hand-wringing introspection and feel proud to be British for a change. We are constantly being told that jingoism and being patriotic is a bad thing so it makes a pleasant change to able to wave a flag and feel a bit of pride for one's country. Not only that, but anything that inspires kids to take up sport can only be a good thing. I have great hopes that the Olympics can really leave a lasting legacy in this country; not just in the facilities and arenas left behind but in the hopes, dreams and inspiration that it generates.

It bloody well ought to. We spent enough on it so we should see some return!

Mate, jingoism IS a bad thing!

Do you think it's good when president Kirchner has got the bit between her teeth?

My point stands, if you're going to criticise others for doing it, then you have to say the same about us if you want to have any integrity.

Not that I want to agree with Morissey or anything!

Why would anyone want to have integrity?

mattyrm wrote:Mate, jingoism IS a bad thing!

Do you think it's good when president Kirchner has got the bit between her teeth?

Well, I'm sure the Argies love it - and after all, jingoism is just a matter of perspective. But if you are asking me if I think it is wrong or shameful to take pride in my country, want it to be successful and a world beater, then I would have to say no. And anyway, what's wrong with wanting to live vicariously through others? I'm pump at running but I can appreciate someone else being good at it.

mattyrm wrote:My point stands, if you're going to criticise others for doing it, then you have to say the same about us if you want to have any integrity.

Not that I want to agree with Morissey or anything!

Who's criticising who for anything? If anything, most people in this thread are just fed up of others wanting to piss on their chips. If you don't like it fine but at least have the grace to allow others to bask in the glow of what is a small cog in the grand scheme of things really. After the 2 weeks are over we can go back to being dour, depressed, self-analytical neurotics.

filbert wrote:I just think it is good that for 2 weeks out of the year we can put aside the hand-wringing introspection and feel proud to be British for a change. We are constantly being told that jingoism and being patriotic is a bad thing so it makes a pleasant change to able to wave a flag and feel a bit of pride for one's country. Not only that, but anything that inspires kids to take up sport can only be a good thing. I have great hopes that the Olympics can really leave a lasting legacy in this country; not just in the facilities and arenas left behind but in the hopes, dreams and inspiration that it generates.

It bloody well ought to. We spent enough on it so we should see some return!

Hear, hear. I was there at the fencing last Wednesday and the sheer mass of British fans was astounding. For a nation which was so negative about the games, saying how it costs too much, it'll be a tragic failure, or someone will blow the gak out of it, the patriotism and pride I saw was really inspiring. After seeing Venezuela win the men's individual epee event at the ExCel, it's really inspired me to take up my own epee again and to start getting back into the sport (in fact, I'm wearing my mask as I'm typing this trying to break it in a bit). Even though we were eliminated in the first round, the uproar that followed whenever we scored was unbelieveable.

If Yorkshire was a seperate country it would currently be standing 10th in the medal table.

Not even a slight twing of pride there Matty?

Possibly.. I feel I have more of an interest the less wide ranging it is as i support boro obviously.. But I'm in bed now and on my phone so you will have to wait for epic multi quote retorts. ;-)

Anyway, I have obviously made my point. I find overt patriotic displays to be grating, especially when British people gob off so much when Americans and Argies do it. That's the crux of the matter.

Until tommorow you glory hogs!

Argh-ha!

So you are willing to bask vicariously in the achievements and glory of Middlesbrough.....that's like one of those oxy morons things isn't it?

mattyrm wrote:

I just hope the fething thing makes people think more about football. Footballers are such fething cocks. I hope that people look at the athletes at the games and think "this lot are much better than the arseholes I usually spend all my time fawning over"

Jessica Ennis seems like a really nice down to earth lass, the fact that an horrible little chav like Wayne Rooney makes her look like a pauper will never sit well with me.

This I completely agree with. Football is overrated, overindulged and overpaid.

mattyrm wrote:
Regards national pride.. feth national pride! Patriotism is not a virtue in my book and it never will be. Its the virtue of the vicious said Oscar and I am with him.
I bet all the guys in the KKK describe themselves as Patriots. Or the EDL, or the BNP.

I cannot disagree more. Patriotism is a bonding principle, its as old as tribalism and valuable in any cohesive society. Sadly we no longer have much of a cohesive society but a national attitude of 'I'm alright jack'. Nothing pisses me off more. I am surprised that Matty is caught up with the New Britain mentality, as a servicemen you should know that he can call on your mates.

mattyrm wrote:
Patriotic people are almost always arseholes! Whenever I have met an American who has said of himself "I am a Patriot" he almost always follows it with jingoism and bigotry. Too often being Patriotic means taking the piss out of other peoples countries and trying to make yourself sound better than everyone else.

Perhaps you have been abroad too long or hanging around in chavtowns. The UK is heading the same way as the Americans with trying to push our 'greatness' in peoples faces, when its not being told to be angst ridden over the past instead. I prefer the older more gentil English culture: if you know you don't need to show. We have a strong culture and heritage and don't need to shove it in peoples faces, we know who we are. Some of us still do.
There is something to be said for quiet English understated resolve.

I really like the Olympics and have enjoyed this year, but it's been really hard because the TV coverage we're getting over here has been absolutely terrible. Tonight here's some swimming, then a final in some rowing because an Australian is in it, then more swimming, then a repeat of some earlier swimming, then some other event and Australian is in, then a two minute package of Australia's win in the hockey, then an interview with a swimmer.

I love getting to see the sports you never normally see, like fencing and table tennis, and this time I haven't seen any of them one. Apparently there's heavy coverage of that stuff on pay TV...

Glorioski wrote:I know Russia will come back like a train now that the Athletics have started but what does everyone else think of GBs chances of holding onto 3rd spot on the medals table? Will the US beat China? And what's happened to Australia? Bellow the Kiwis now, really?

The medal count is just so silly. I mean, what in the hell does it actually mean, because it sure doesn't measure a nation's sporting achievements. Think about how many medals are up for grabs in, say, rowing, compared to hockey. There's 14 in rowing, and two in hockey. Which would mean according to the medal count rowing is about 7 times more significant a sport than hockey, which is nonsense. Hockey has participation rates somewhere around 1,000 times as great as rowing, which means a win in hockey should carry far more weight than rowing... and yet according to the medal count the weighting is 7 times the other way.

I mean, just think about a country that manages to win the men's and women's basketball. That's one hell of a thing, and a real signal of a powerful sporting nation, but one single swimmer can win that, and a strong swim team will win double that. Is that because of swimming is a massive sport worldwide. Nah, there'd be what, 10,000 competitive swimmers across the planet? Compare that with the I don't know how many millions who play in a basketball league?

Now, I'm not saying anything to diminish any individual's win in any sport. All the individual did was choose their sport, compete and be the best in their field. They deserve their gold medal. But to add up all the medals each country has won and conclude that's means, well anything at all is just nonsense.


And before anyone thinks this is just sour grapes over Australia's performance, I've been arguing this point since Australia got fixated on the medal count at the Sydney Olympics. I've gotten stronger in this belief since then, as one of the reasons Australia managed to punch above its weight and rank so highly in the medal count was the strategy of picking out weaker events and getting athletes to switch to them - so instead of getting athletes to compete in major sports and maybe help them achieve a place in a final, instead we tried shifting them into obscure sports to try and sneak gold medal.

The result of that was that sports with genuine interest around the country, but in which it was expensive to develop a medal winning team, like hockey, had reduced funding, while we spent more money on weirdo sports.

It also meant we somehow produced a generation of swimmers who somehow became celebrities, despite the fact that outside of the Olympics no-one cared one bit for watching swimming.

I've been enjoying it. Seen lots of stuff I wouldn't normally watch.

Whats nice is as a Sky customer, they have put all the BBC 'online' options onto their own HD channels in the Sports section, so there are 24 HD and 24 non HD bonus Olympic channels on my Sky box at the mo.


Its been great, and good to see GB gain so many medals.

sebster wrote:I really like the Olympics and have enjoyed this year, but it's been really hard because the TV coverage we're getting over here has been absolutely terrible. Tonight here's some swimming, then a final in some rowing because an Australian is in it, then more swimming, then a repeat of some earlier swimming, then some other event and Australian is in, then a two minute package of Australia's win in the hockey, then an interview with a swimmer.

I love getting to see the sports you never normally see, like fencing and table tennis, and this time I haven't seen any of them one. Apparently there's heavy coverage of that stuff on pay TV...

This is something that has caught my attention here in the Uk, although here it has been fantastic. The BBC has a live stream every single sport which is currently being played on their website and also over several chanels if you have cable or satellite, all with commentary and free for licence payers (which is mandatory if you have a TV in the UK). You can rewind the streams on the net service too and watch everything which has already happened if you missed it. I actually feel my TV licence was well worth the money this year.

sebster wrote:

Glorioski wrote:I know Russia will come back like a train now that the Athletics have started but what does everyone else think of GBs chances of holding onto 3rd spot on the medals table? Will the US beat China? And what's happened to Australia? Bellow the Kiwis now, really?

The medal count is just so silly. I mean, what in the hell does it actually mean, because it sure doesn't measure a nation's sporting achievements. Think about how many medals are up for grabs in, say, rowing, compared to hockey. There's 14 in rowing, and two in hockey. Which would mean according to the medal count rowing is about 7 times more significant a sport than hockey, which is nonsense. Hockey has participation rates somewhere around 1,000 times as great as rowing, which means a win in hockey should carry far more weight than rowing... and yet according to the medal count the weighting is 7 times the other way.

I mean, just think about a country that manages to win the men's and women's basketball. That's one hell of a thing, and a real signal of a powerful sporting nation, but one single swimmer can win that, and a strong swim team will win double that. Is that because of swimming is a massive sport worldwide. Nah, there'd be what, 10,000 competitive swimmers across the planet? Compare that with the I don't know how many millions who play in a basketball league?

Now, I'm not saying anything to diminish any individual's win in any sport. All the individual did was choose their sport, compete and be the best in their field. They deserve their gold medal. But to add up all the medals each country has won and conclude that's means, well anything at all is just nonsense.

And before anyone thinks this is just sour grapes over Australia's performance, I've been arguing this point since Australia got fixated on the medal count at the Sydney Olympics. I've gotten stronger in this belief since then, as one of the reasons Australia managed to punch above its weight and rank so highly in the medal count was the strategy of picking out weaker events and getting athletes to switch to them - so instead of getting athletes to compete in major sports and maybe help them achieve a place in a final, instead we tried shifting them into obscure sports to try and sneak gold medal.

The result of that was that sports with genuine interest around the country, but in which it was expensive to develop a medal winning team, like hockey, had reduced funding, while we spent more money on weirdo sports.

It also meant we somehow produced a generation of swimmers who somehow became celebrities, despite the fact that outside of the Olympics no-one cared one bit for watching swimming.

I think your right, the medal table isn't a good way to assess a nations sporting prowess and I'm certainly not arguing that. But each discipline has their own medal table and that is a perfectly reasonable way to asses how healthy that particular sport is in your country. For example I don't think you could argue that British cycling or Rowing isn't in very good form right now. Compared to Australia, who (long before Sydney) always had very successful swimmers and it has to be asked what's gone wrong there.

Also for what it's worth I don't think there are any "wierdo" sports at the Olympics and I think it is a great way for those sports who don't get much time in the spotlight to showcase themselves to young people who think sport starts and ends at football (or Aussie rules in Australia's case). I think sports which have huge popularity generally take care of themselves as far as funding is concerned. I'm not going to back any initiative to give government funding to Manchester United's talent scouts.

To be honest I think Australia need to reassess how they value success at the Olympics. Even the British media rate the Bronze medal athletes for their achievement. For example, this is ridiculous...

sebster wrote:I really like the Olympics and have enjoyed this year, but it's been really hard because the TV coverage we're getting over here has been absolutely terrible. Tonight here's some swimming, then a final in some rowing because an Australian is in it, then more swimming, then a repeat of some earlier swimming, then some other event and Australian is in, then a two minute package of Australia's win in the hockey, then an interview with a swimmer.

I love getting to see the sports you never normally see, like fencing and table tennis, and this time I haven't seen any of them one. Apparently there's heavy coverage of that stuff on pay TV...

Indeed thats why I hate the Olympics with a passion, ok one of many reasons to be accurate. This year we have the DVR or whatever its called. I set up to record the taekwondo and shooting as they all seemed to be on at 3.00AM in the morning, vs. the constant swimming Phelps nonsense (seriusly if you're gong to show swimming quit talking ABOUT SOMEONE ELSE WHILE THE COMPETITION IS GOING ON). Of course the DVR recorded competititve tiddlywinks or some crap.

I heard yesterday on the radio that the Tennis coverage in the US was put out two hours after it had finished and they got Serena Williams to commentate on her own final

Orlanth wrote:
I cannot disagree more. Patriotism is a bonding principle, its as old as tribalism and valuable in any cohesive society. Sadly we no longer have much of a cohesive society but a national attitude of 'I'm alright jack'. Nothing pisses me off more. I am surprised that Matty is caught up with the New Britain mentality, as a servicemen you should know that he can call on your mates.

I dont have a "new Britain" mentality, its just my opinion, you went on to pretty much defend my position AND agree with me in your next paragraph!

Orlanth wrote:Perhaps you have been abroad too long or hanging around in chavtowns. The UK is heading the same way as the Americans with trying to push our 'greatness' in peoples faces, when its not being told to be angst ridden over the past instead. I prefer the older more gentil English culture: if you know you don't need to show. We have a strong culture and heritage and don't need to shove it in peoples faces, we know who we are. Some of us still do. There is something to be said for quiet English understated resolve.

Yes, there is something to be said for quiet understated resolve, and how the feth is incessantly gobbing off, waving a flag and chanting with a painted face "quiet understated resolve"?!

I agree with most of what you said, and that's the bloody point! We probably agree almost entirely, you have just decided I wear a tie dye shirt and suscribe to New Labours ridiculous ideology, and you couldn't be more wrong.

I am a human, as such I have the same whims as everyone else, clearly some stupid part of me prefers to see Team GB win a medal over the French team, what I am saying is that such feelings are not good and virtuous, its divisive, and the number one reason I hate it is because I loathe hypocrisy, and I spend alot of time slagging off the Argies for acting in the exact same manner that the British public seem to be now! I also have an American partner, who pretty regularly has to deal with anti American sentiment. You might not think it, but a sizeable portion of Europe in anti American, and the British are the same.The British fething love to mouth off about the Americans being all "USA USA NUMBER 1!" and here we have everyone doing the exact same thing.

That pretty much answers Not Prop as well. Sure I support Boro, It might be pretty dumb, but I went to watch them as a child and ergo they are my team, but that rules out Patriotism and Jingoism because they compete primarily against other English teams!

I have no problem with wanting a team to do well, I have a problem with incessant "fandom" and people slapping themselves on the backs for the efforts of others. Alby took issue with what I said (maybe losers was a tad harsh!) but the point is spot on. Why do you think people love to say "My granddad fought the Japs" or "Oh Bono is from my home town!" Its not because they think you are a student of music or military history, its because they think somehow a little bit of that cool rubs off on them!

The fact is, I don't hate my country even remotely, Its probably the opposite, I admire British traits like humility and stoicism and magnanimity in victory, and when I discuss these things with my American missus and I say how much more quietly we get on with things, gak like this is embarrassing!

I don't hate people that like to quietly support their nation in sports and I'm not a pinko socialist, I just think all this excessive overt flag waving is a little bit fething embarrassing. When the vast majority of the nation seems to be acting like Cristina Kirchner and her idiot followers, how is that a good thing?

Aaaaaaand Latvija smashes the U.S. in men's beach volleyball!

rubiksnoob wrote:Aaaaaaand Latvija smashes the U.S. in men's beach volleyball!

feth me.. Men play beach volleyball?! I thought it was just a chicks sport?

I think I would be happier if I was American.. you know, you can get away with "Well I guess all the Latvian men play heaps of women's sports"

More gold for Team GB today - they've now surpassed the total they won at Beijing and are looking pretty unassailable in 3rd with a little under a week left to go.

Albatross wrote:More gold for Team GB today - they've now surpassed the total they won at Beijing and are looking pretty unassailable in 3rd with a little under a week left to go.

The best thing about the Olympics is perusing the foreign press.. I actually think the French have been very magnanimous regards the cycling. Its sad when I think more of our French chums than our Australian cousins.

Here you will enjoy this one.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/london-olympics/how-world-stole-the-brains-behind-australian-sport/comments-fn9dirj0-1226444297111

The fethers are as bad at losing as the whinging poms!

Albatross wrote:More gold for Team GB today - they've now surpassed the total they won at Beijing and are looking pretty unassailable in 3rd with a little under a week left to go.

Yeah, you guys have gone nuts on the Cycling thing. Taking 8 out of 14 golds so far is crazy.

Although, now you've got to get off those silly road bikes and get on some real bikes.

The French have been magnanimous!??

They've pretty much been accusing Team GB of cheating all last week because they've been getting their arses handed to them! And then of course their was their President with this:

'The British have rolled out the red carpet for French athletes to win medals and I thank them very much.

'But the competition is not over. I talked to David Cameron and he has great hopes in swimming and athletics. We will see the totals at the end.'

Mr Hollande, who joined Mr Cameron to watch France take on Spain in the handball, jokingly said the British could console themselves with a strong cumulative total for all European nations.

'In the end, it's the European total which counts,' he said. 'We will put the French medals in the European bag, and that way the Britons can be happy to be Europeans.'

Read more: http://www.metro.co.uk/olympics/906936-francois-hollande-taunts-david-cameron-over-team-gb-medal-count#ixzz22tFnVFwD

I bet he feels like a bit of a prat now, doesn't he? I hope Cameron absolutely canes him next time they meet. I think the French should stick to cooking and let us do the jokes.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grakmar wrote:

Albatross wrote:More gold for Team GB today - they've now surpassed the total they won at Beijing and are looking pretty unassailable in 3rd with a little under a week left to go.

Yeah, you guys have gone nuts on the Cycling thing. Taking 8 out of 14 golds so far is crazy.

Although, now you've got to get off those silly road bikes and get on some real bikes.

Bradley Wiggins, of course, riding a unicycle when he won the Tour de France.

Anyway, you cheeky sod - you buggers have 30 medals in swimming! Now that is taking the piss!

Albatross wrote:The French have been magnanimous!??

They've pretty much been accusing Team GB of cheating all last week because they've been getting their arses handed to them! And then of course their was their President with this:

'The British have rolled out the red carpet for French athletes to win medals and I thank them very much.

'But the competition is not over. I talked to David Cameron and he has great hopes in swimming and athletics. We will see the totals at the end.'

Mr Hollande, who joined Mr Cameron to watch France take on Spain in the handball, jokingly said the British could console themselves with a strong cumulative total for all European nations.

'In the end, it's the European total which counts,' he said. 'We will put the French medals in the European bag, and that way the Britons can be happy to be Europeans.'

Read more: http://www.metro.co.uk/olympics/906936-francois-hollande-taunts-david-cameron-over-team-gb-medal-count#ixzz22tFnVFwD

I bet he feels like a bit of a prat now, doesn't he? I hope Cameron absolutely canes him next time they meet. I think the French should stick to cooking and let us do the jokes.

I've been reading their papers, as always, loud public figures and politicians make everyone else look like feth heads, the overwhelming amount of comments from the French has been saluting the British cyclists for their professionalism, and Bradley Wiggins is being called "Le Gentleman" for his conduct during the tour.

Obviously lets not even discuss the current French PM because he is a pinko commie socialist.

How the feth have you been reading French newspapers, like? You don't speak French do you? I'm sorry, I can't picture you sat in Costa skimming Le Monde....

Mattrym maybe a well educated man....or he has been using google translator, you pick which one look right

Yeah well, 7 athletes from Cameroon have done a bunk, and ten athletes from North Korea have been sentenced to twenty years hard labour in the salt mines, so for every success story, there is an olympic tragedy

On a final note, since when did the French have anything good to say about Britain? They're still bitter because we refuse to sell garlic eclairs!

Yeah google translates them mate.

Its easy with technology.

Vous nauséabond bandit ivre britannique!

Woot! Another medal for the Canucks!

Derek Drouin nabed the bronze in men's high jump today!

Too bad our women's soccer team got so badly screwed over by BS officiating yesterday, and our equestrian team got nailed on a ing are ed rule that makes absolutely 0 sense.
And now FIFA is debating wether or not to 'discipline' the Canadian soccer team because they had the balls to tell it like it is...

Grakmar wrote:

Albatross wrote:More gold for Team GB today - they've now surpassed the total they won at Beijing and are looking pretty unassailable in 3rd with a little under a week left to go.

Yeah, you guys have gone nuts on the Cycling thing. Taking 8 out of 14 golds so far is crazy.

It should have been ten. Were it not for several nations deciding to lose rather than do anything to help a sprint finish where they knew Mark Cavandish would just own them. And if the track cycling actually had an appeal system in place so Anna Mear's elbowing Pendleton tonight would have been seen properly.

Although, now you've got to get off those silly road bikes and get on some real bikes.

GB only has one rider in the MTB because of restrictions they put on cycling teams after Beijing, naturally they focused their efforts on the track where they were strongest.

mattyrm wrote:

rubiksnoob wrote:Aaaaaaand Latvija smashes the U.S. in men's beach volleyball!

feth me.. Men play beach volleyball?! I thought it was just a chicks sport?

I think I would be happier if I was American.. you know, you can get away with "Well I guess all the Latvian men play heaps of women's sports"

Beach volleyball is, how do you Britfolk say it? fething ace! And it's a huge sport in Latvija, as well as with Latvians here in the states.

mattyrm wrote: I mean, I don't see any other fether complaining do you? So you should direct your comments at me, everyone else is on the "pro olympic" team.

Officially supporting the anti-olympic team.

At least the massive economic failure means that I can finally drive around east london without traffic. London currently has 8% LESS tourists than is normal in August. I'm losing about half my income from theatre shows that suddenly have no audience. And don't bring it up with a cab driver.

Albatross wrote:

mattyrm wrote:Well enlighten me, why do you feel better when a stranger from Liverpool wins a medal but feel nothing when a stranger from Hamburg does?

Because that stranger from Liverpool is representing my country.

Ah, the country that you worked long and hard to be part of? The country that your drive and ambition enabled you to be part of? Oh no, the bit of land that you completely randomly happened to be born in, through absolutely no work on your part.

That stranger from Liverpool is a stranger form Liverpool. Like a stranger from Paris, who you would presumably support whole heartedly had you happened to be born in Avignon.

Groups of people have shared customs, which makes them familiar. But their success is has no echo towards anyone else who shares their customs. Their success is their own. To claim it as your own would be very very wrong in my book....