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OK, I know there was a discussion about the opening ceremony but I can't believe nobody has taken an interest in the sport at these Olympics so I thought I would start up a thread. That decision was made in no small part due to me being immensely proud to be British on the most successful day in British Olympic history.

My sport of choice is mountain biking and while I have little hope that team GB will medal in either of the cross country events I can really appreciate the effort that the track and road cycling teams must have put in to completely tie down the field. 4 out of 5 golds on the track and the fifth should have been ours were it not for an unfortunate error.

I know Russia will come back like a train now that the Athletics have started but what does everyone else think of GBs chances of holding onto 3rd spot on the medals table? Will the US beat China? And what's happened to Australia? Bellow the Kiwis now, really?

Why be proud when you didn't do anything?

I am looking forward to beating my own personal goals, but the Olympics mean nothing.

And that's good news I'f you aren't Chinese.

Yeah I had to admit I was kind of surprised there was no subject here!

Great games so far, and have really enjoyed spending far too much time watching it on TV. Great day for GB today who are now 3rd in the medal table, will be wonderful if we can stay there until the end of next week. Of course we can't get close to US/China, but realistically I think that place would be a real achievement.

Watching the boxing and there has been some really crappy rulings in some of the fights. The one the other night when the Indian chap beat the last American in the competition was disgusting, even the referee had already pre-empted the decision and was already lifting the other fighters glove.

Seeing the fattest guy ever in the Olympics ever was pretty amusing (i can't remember his exact weight, but apparently it was more than the entire Japanese women's gymnastics team combined )

mattyrm wrote:Why be proud when you didn't do anything?

I am looking forward to beating my own personal goals, but the Olympics mean nothing.

And that's good news I'f you aren't Chinese.

I'm not allowed to be proud of a fellow Britain? Misery loves company huh fella, wont find it here.

Pacific wrote:YSeeing the fattest guy ever in the Olympics ever was pretty amusing (i can't remember his exact weight, but apparently it was more than the entire Japanese women's gymnastics team combined )

Yeh I think it was above 30 stone. Props to the guy less than half his weight who threw him.

Glorioski wrote:

mattyrm wrote:Why be proud when you didn't do anything?

I am looking forward to beating my own personal goals, but the Olympics mean nothing.

And that's good news I'f you aren't Chinese.

I'm not allowed to be proud of a fellow Britain? Misery loves company huh fella, wont find it here.

Sorry, I'm with matty on this one. I have done absolutely nothing that in any way affects Team GB getting gold. They can be proud, their trainers and parents can be proud, whoever sets sports policy can be proud. But it would be insulting for me to try and bask in the glory when I've done absolutely nothing bar being born on the same bit of land. Well done to the athletes - nothing to do with us.

While I agree with a lot of the media that the success of Team GB may have an inspirational effect, and shows the results of working hard to achieve something, I kinda wish we were promoting USEFUL things. It's very impressive that Athlete A has spent his entire life training to throw a pointy stick the farthest, but wouldn't it be better if he'd spent his entire life training to do something useful? Every nurse in that opening ceremony is more worthy of praise than any of the athletes.

Glorioski wrote:

mattyrm wrote:Why be proud when you didn't do anything?

I am looking forward to beating my own personal goals, but the Olympics mean nothing.

And that's good news I'f you aren't Chinese.

I'm not allowed to be proud of a fellow Britain? Misery loves company huh fella, wont find it here.

Sure you are, you are allowed to do anything you want, I don't have to follow suit though.

I'm not miserable either, im just saying, I don't feel proud of other peoples achievements, it means nothing to me. Kinda like when someone you don't know dies.

I mean, some part of you empathizes because you think "sucks for him" or "I'm glad that wasn't me" but you aren't SAD about it are you? Not like if your Dad snuffs it or something, because I need a connection to feel pride. I might be proud if my brother or my best mate won a gold medal, but as It stands I don't much give a feth.

Swings and roundabouts obviously, I'm pleased that Jessica Ennis won because she seems really nice, alternatively I hate Victoria Pendleton because she seems like an uppity slut. But I feel no personal pride about Ennis, I just feel its the wrong word.

Here is an alternative, if you feel pride when a British stranger does something good, do you feel shame when a British stranger does something bad?

mattyrm wrote:

Here is an alternative, if you feel pride when a British stranger does something good, do you feel shame when a British stranger does something bad?

Yes actually...
More so in that case...
He isn't basking in their glory. They were the ones that did it but they represent the entire country in that particular sport and many of them have said so, so it's not just a win for them but the entire country...
Obviously people will have differing feelings about it...

OT: I really like watching some of the sports i have absolutely no knowledge about...
Oddly mesmerising

If you say you had nothing to do with the sucess and team GB you clearly don't know about the craptonne of money that every person in the UK has paid to get this far. Apparently £150 each just for the games. Yes, we'll see some, if not all, of that back, but we have all put up allot of cash upfront to get these people to where they are. I see no problem in takeing pride in what team GB have done, in the same way people can be upset when someone famous they never knew but had a big influence on them dies.

Anyway, we have done very very well. We have no hope of beating the US or China, but if we can keep going and stay 3rd in the golds and keep winning, then we have done better than we could ever have hoped for.

If this olympics inspires a generation of kids to take up sport and keep themselves fit and healthy instead of causing trouble in their neighbourhood or sitting on their arses playing videogames and eating oven chips, then it will have been a success. That is something to be justifiably proud of.

A lot of these miserable fethers complaining are just that - miserable fethers. You haven't been let into a secret that we're not aware of, you aren't more incisive, mature or astute, you just see a bunch of people enjoying something and can't stand it. Why is it so terrible for us to support our athletes? Have some national pride, for crying out loud.

Oh and don't get me started on nurses. They earn plenty, are over-politicised, and are, frankly, crap at their jobs for the most part. Anyone who thinks they're 'angels' obviously hasn't been on a hospital ward too often.

Albatross wrote:If this olympics inspires a generation of kids to take up sport and keep themselves fit and healthy instead of causing trouble in their neighbourhood or sitting on their arses playing videogames and eating oven chips, then it will have been a success. That is something to be justifiably proud of.

A lot of these miserable fethers complaining are just that - miserable fethers. You haven't been let into a secret that we're not aware of, you aren't more incisive, mature or astute, you just see a bunch of people enjoying something and can't stand it. Why is it so terrible for us to support our athletes? Have some national pride, for crying out loud.

Oh and don't get me started on nurses. They earn plenty, are over-politicised, and are, frankly, crap at their jobs for the most part. Anyone who thinks they're 'angels' obviously hasn't been on a hospital ward too often. It's a job like any other.

I just hope the fething thing makes people think more about football. Footballers are such fething cocks. I hope that people look at the athletes at the games and think "this lot are much better than the arseholes I usually spend all my time fawning over"

Jessica Ennis seems like a really nice down to earth lass, the fact that an orrible little chav like Wayne Rooney makes her look like a pauper will never sit well with me.

Regards national pride.. feth national pride! Patriotism is not a virtue in my book and it never will be. Its the virtue of the vicious said Oscar and I am with him.

I bet all the guys in the KKK describe themselves as Patriots. Or the EDL, or the BNP.

Patriotic people are almost always arseholes! Whenever I have met an American who has said of himself "I am a Patriot" he almost always follows it with jingoism and bigotry. Too often being Patriotic means taking the piss out of other peoples countries and trying to make yourself sound better than everyone else.

I am a miserable fether mind you, a self confessed one.

OK, kind of wish I hadn't put the word pride in the OP so we could have avoided the bs debate over mattyrm's glass half empty definition of pride.

In other news, Ben Ainsley won gold and Andy Murray completely owned Federer. More world records at the velodrome too.

mattyrm wrote:

Regards national pride.. feth national pride! Patriotism is not a virtue in my book and it never will be. Its the virtue of the vicious said Oscar and I am with him.

Just so you know, that statement is pretty much a meaningless platitude. You could apply it to anything you don't like: 'Socialism is the virtue of the vicious', 'Democracy is the virtue of the vicious' etc.

Also, your interpretation of it as being exclusively negative is flawed. As there is no direct quotation of that phrase (it's an attribution to Wilde), it's impossible to properly contextualise it. If you look at the syntax of the sentence, patriotism is listed as a virtue, one held by vicious people. It doesn't imply exclusivity, i.e. 'patriotism can only be found in vicious people' or 'only vicious people are patriotic'. Neither does the phrase explicitly state that patriotism is regarded by the vicious as a virtue, though this is often the assumed meaning. Moreover, it is often quoted as 'patriotism is a virtue of the vicious', which could be read as 'one virtue posessed by vicious people is patriotism'. Likewise the other version of that quote can be read as 'the only virtue that vicious people possess is patriotism'. Wilde was active during the height of the British Empire - he was probably surrounded by extraordinarily patriotic people, who were probably equally vicious. Perhaps he regarded love of one's country as the only redeeming feature of such people?

I bet all the guys in the KKK describe themselves as Patriots. Or the EDL, or the BNP.

So, if a group of bad people describe themselves as a thing, that thing is bad? No, that's not how it works. Harold Shipman was a doctor who also happened to be one of the worst serial murderers in history. Are all doctors serial murderers?

Patriotic people are almost always arseholes! Whenever I have met an American who has said of himself "I am a Patriot" he almost always follows it with jingoism and bigotry. Too often being Patriotic means taking the piss out of other peoples countries and trying to make yourself sound better than everyone else.

No, that's not what patriotism is. That's something else.

I am a miserable fether mind you, a self confessed one.

That's a bingo!

I don't watch sports to begin with, never mind special occasion sports.

I read about it enough in The Economist to make up for not really caring

Albatross wrote:
No, that's not what patriotism is. That's something else.

Yes of course it is, but that's what people think patriotism is, and thats what patriotism turns into, because whenever you meet someone who described themselves as Patriotic they almost always turn out to be jingoistic as feth. You know for a fact thats the case.. go drink in a bar in the States and wait until a bloke says he is a "true patriot" what follows is almost always the same tired excessive bias in judging one's own country as superior to others.

I am a miserable fether mind you, a self confessed one.

That's a bingo!

Damn straight. I was expecting Team GB to win gold considering England are so awful at football, but Murray picked up where they left off and won a gold despite the fact he always feths up when it really matters!

Yeah, figure that one out. I was expecting him to feth it up right to his last point!

Albatross wrote:

mattyrm wrote:

Regards national pride.. feth national pride! Patriotism is not a virtue in my book and it never will be. Its the virtue of the vicious said Oscar and I am with him.

Just so you know, that statement is pretty much a meaningless platitude. You could apply it to anything you don't like: 'Socialism is the virtue of the vicious', 'Democracy is the virtue of the vicious' etc.

Although you very rarely have Socialism or Democracy used as an excuse to inflict violence on people, whereas too much nationalism seems to be an invite to inflict some of the worst violence in history against the 'others', whoever they might be.

Anyway!

Some good stuff on today. Happy Murray got a gold at Wimbledon, although Federer may well have not turned up I have never seen him play so poorly.

I can't really get excited about the 100m, not really enough to get your teeth into (and it gets tiresome with them all behaving as though they are ghetto-gangsters all the time), and the only thing I was rooting for was for drugs-cheat Gatlin not to win the gold.

If this olympics inspires a generation of kids to take up sport and keep themselves fit and healthy instead of causing trouble in their neighbourhood or sitting on their arses playing videogames and eating oven chips, then it will have been a success. That is something to be justifiably proud of.

Completely agree.. Britain is fast becoming a fatter and more unhealthy country, and anything that can reverse that trend has to be supported I think.

And yet is currently winning mor gold medals per capita than any other nation or so I hear on the news.

I know we have to go back to work tomorrow but try cheer up you bunch of grumpy sods.

mattyrm wrote:

I just hope the fething thing makes people think more about football. Footballers are such fething cocks. I hope that people look at the athletes at the games and think "this lot are much better than the arseholes I usually spend all my time fawning over"

Jessica Ennis seems like a really nice down to earth lass, the fact that an orrible little chav like Wayne Rooney makes her look like a pauper will never sit well with me.

Regards national pride.. feth national pride! Patriotism is not a virtue in my book and it never will be. Its the virtue of the vicious said Oscar and I am with him.

I bet all the guys in the KKK describe themselves as Patriots. Or the EDL, or the BNP.

Patriotic people are almost always arseholes! Whenever I have met an American who has said of himself "I am a Patriot" he almost always follows it with jingoism and bigotry. Too often being Patriotic means taking the piss out of other peoples countries and trying to make yourself sound better than everyone else.

I am a miserable fether mind you, a self confessed one.

Do you know how many professional footballers there are? It's bloody rediclious how people keep saying things like you have. There are a few dodgy footballers, there are dodgy drug taking cheating athletes. There are dogy actors, musicians, celebrities, firemen, police officers, bums, office workers. Why why why do people have to try and brandish a whole group wi the same tag. There isn't a single footballer in the Norwxh City squad that has done anything morally wrong, in the public eye at least, bar one dodgy rumour. Im not going to try and defend someone like Joey Barton, or John Terry, they are very dodgy to say the least. I wouldn't say Rooney is that bad, he's not an ideal role model.

Yes Jessica Ennis is fantastic, but what about the US athlete who just won bronze int eh 100 meters, been banned twice hasn't he? What a fantastic person he is.

As for national pride of course you don't have to join in, but being patriotic doesn't make you a dick. Proud ought not be the right word, but watching Murray win today, and all the other winners we've had I've felt something good. If you can't enjoy something like this then I think it's your loss, but no one fan force you too so fair enough.

If I hear 'our boys' again I'm going to vomit.

All I did was partly fund Team GB through taxes. The Olympics should focus on individual athletes' success, not some nationalistic farce. It is, at the end of the day, a contest between INDIVIDUALS.

The point of Wilde's quote was much as matty used it, and certainly it has meaning beyond a platitude.

Democracy and Socialism aren't virtues. Virtues are things like charity, industry, generosity, courage, insightfulness and honesty. Positive and admirable qualities of a person. Many people consider patriotism a virtue, but Wilde's point is that it's often the only one possessed by people who are otherwise vile and brutish.

Wilde was saying that just because someone's patriotic is no real statement about their character; unlike other virtues, it's less correlated with being a good person, and sadly common among complete jerks, in the forms of jingoism and nationalism.

I hope the people going on about how they can't get behind something you have a commonality with (nationality in this case), extend the sentiment to your local footie team, your pals and your own kids too. Since misery is unflattering enough without hypocrisy.

notprop wrote:And yet is currently winning mor gold medals per capita than any other nation or so I hear on the news.

I know we have to go back to work tomorrow but try cheer up you bunch of grumpy sods.

Indeed. What a bunch of cynical gets.

So, us Swedes got our first gold medal of the Games today (sailing, Star class). No one in Sweden seems to have noticed. When we lost the women's triathlon by 2 thousands of a second the other day the tabloids were crying bloody murder. Guess I'll have to wait and see what they say tomorrow, although I doubt it'll be anything nice...

Mannahnin wrote:The point of Wilde's quote was much as matty used it, and certainly it has meaning beyond a platitude.

I mean using the quote in that manner, to disparage patriots. People toss it around as if it means 'patriotism is bad, guys' when it doesn't. Or at least, we don't know if that's what he meant, because we don't know that he definitely said it iirc. Also, I hate Wilde, precisely because all he seemed to do was quip for quipping's sake. He was a louche, dissoulute smart-arse.

Many people consider patriotism a virtue, but Wilde's point is that it's often the only one possessed by people who are otherwise vile and brutish.

I said almost that exact thing in my post, Manny.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pacific wrote:
Although you very rarely have Socialism or Democracy used as an excuse to inflict violence on people...

Pacific, you seem like a nice chap. I have nothing against you, but... Well...

Wow. Mind=Blown.


Let's just leave it at that. I don't want to be rude.

Thread's screwed.

mattyrm wrote:

Here is an alternative, if you feel pride when a British stranger does something good, do you feel shame when a British stranger does something bad?

People often feel national pride and/or shame don't they? Arent you always getting on about your queen?

And the issue/Problem is compounded beause the world is quick to generalize about people based upon things like origin and other associations.

We see it here on Dakka on a daily basis when a thread stats about something: it then becomes You Americans blah, blah, blah..., you christians..., you hippies..., etc., etc.

Albatross wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:The point of Wilde's quote was much as matty used it, and certainly it has meaning beyond a platitude.

I mean using the quote in that manner, to disparage patriots. People toss it around as if it means 'patriotism is bad, guys' when it doesn't.

That's not what matty expressed as his opinion, though. He said patriotism isn't good, not that it is bad. He doesn't consider patriotism anything particularly positive or admirable, which is in keeping with his general lack of empathy with strangers. He didn't say patriots are necessarily bad people. It's like that exchange from Trainspotting:

Renton:The Sick Boy method?
Swanney: Well, it nearly worked for him, hey.
Renton: Well, he's always been lacking in moral fiber.
Swanney: He knows a lot about Sean Connery.
Renton: That's hardly a substitute.

I think we can all agree that while Sick Boy's devotion to Sean Connery may be impressive, it's not a quality which demonstrates any particular strength of character.

Okay, maybe matty went a BIT further, saying he finds a high correlation between patriotism and jingoistic jerks like in the BNP. Which I would guess was Wilde's experience too. I'm happily patriotic, but I don't boast about it.

Albatross wrote:Or at least, we don't know if that's what he meant, because we don't know that he definitely said it iirc. Also, I hate Wilde, precisely because all he seemed to do was quip for quipping's sake. He was a louche, dissoulute smart-arse.

He also did some writing, you might have noticed. Quipping is a fun activity and a way to show off. Giving toy soldiers fancy paint jobs and playing with them in competitive events with your fellow hobbyists are two more fun activities and ways to show off. As is singing in a band.

I think Oscar Wilde is overrated. Put THAT in your sig and quote it!

You have too many strong opinions for me to sig them all.

My interests in the 2012 Olympics ended with the opening ceremony, and my subsequent download of the playlist.

Seriously though, picking Underworld to do the music was the best decision they could have ever made. It's the only reason I cared.

I can't believe no Brits have mentioned that Zoe Smith broke the UK's women's 58kg clean and jerk record. She CJed 121KGs, about 270lbs...and she's only 5'3" 120 or so. She hasn't been lifting for long, she might be a medal contender by 2016.