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d-usa wrote:The shops are almost as cool as the actual pictures:

That would be Opportunity, not Curiosity Or maybe it's Spirit, and we know the real reason it isn't working anymore

gorgon wrote:

Leigen_Zero wrote: The Curiosity rover has really perplexed me recently, not because of the rover or the mission itself but about humans as a species.

I mean, I am currently using a massive, intangible network that harnesses the power of electrons to look at photos taken by a robot the size of a go-kart that we have somehow launched into space and successfully landed on another planet, yet at the same time we exhibit an almost deific worship of persons such as Kim Kardashian, who have contributed nothing to the advancement of our society other than possessing aesthetically pleasing buttocks...

Which is fair enough, societies aren't perfect it's a fact of life. However, what boggles my mind is that evolution is not determined by the fittest of the species, more by those that can crank out the most offspring within that species, and all I'm saying is that the rocket scientist's are producing more kids than the junk-food-munching, reality-tv-watching plebians...

Rocket scientists as the "fittest of the species," huh? Maybe in the control room or a lab. Otherwise not so much. They're definitely some kind of specialized mutant strain.


Regarding microbial life on Mars/Titan/etc., while I guess it'd be cool to discover, I don't see how it impacts my life or anyone's life, really. I've certainly heard narrators with booming voices tell me that "ARE WE ALONE?" is "THE GREATEST QUESTION FACING HUMANITY" and all, but is it really? If it was that great of a question, shouldn't it have more relevance?

I mean, human colonization is a ridiculously expensive waste, considering there's no real reason to get off this planet for another billion years or whatever. Still, at least I see an end purpose there...(extremely) long-term survival.

This opinion is likely going to get savaged here, but I think that the whole quest for life on other planets thing is tied into a whole lot of dreams about science fiction scenarios. Set fantasy aside, and the whole thing becomes a big "so what." Especially if you're talking about microbes. *shrug*

Yeah it is an important question. Why have such an extremely short term view point regarding the survival of the human race?

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:This is all well and good but we really should be looking at Titan as a possible source of extraterrestrial life forms....admittedly the following text IS from Wikipedia, and therefore probably wrong.......

The atmosphere of Titan is largely composed of nitrogen; minor components lead to the formation of methane and ethane clouds and nitrogen-rich organic smog. The climate—including wind and rain—creates surface features similar to those of Earth, such as sand dunes, rivers, lakes and seas (probably of liquid methane and ethane), and deltas, and is dominated by seasonal weather patterns as on Earth. With its liquids (both surface and subsurface) and robust nitrogen atmosphere, Titan's methane cycle is viewed as an analog to Earth's water cycle, although at a much lower temperature.

The satellite is thought as a possible host for microbial extraterrestrial life or, at least, as a prebiotic environment rich in complex organic chemistry with a possible subsurface liquid ocean serving as a biotic environment.


Back to Mars, I'm just waiting for any pictures of Olympus Mons, the largest mountain in the solar system.

I don't get the whole thing with Wikipedia. The vast majority of the information there is correct, and if some idiot goes in and makes an edit with incorrect information, it gets corrected within a day. Also, the Astronomy articles especially on Wikipedia are very reliable.


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labmouse42 wrote:

GalacticDefender wrote:Also NASA should totally send a rover to Titan.

I think Titan would be a bit harder.

First of all, there is the distance. Saturn is 1.2 billion km from earth, though its orbit can alter that a little. Depending on where they are in their respective orbits, mars and earth can be anywhere from 36 million miles to over 250 million miles apart.

Then there is the temperature. Differing values have been reported for the average temperature on Mars, with a common value being −55 °C (−67 °F). Titan's surface temperature is about 94 K (−179 °C, or −290 °F).

Don't get me wrong. In our lifetimes we will probably see a probe sent to Titan (provided that poloticans don't cut all NASA spending). It's just not going to be for another 20-30 years or so.

This is a screenshot from a fun game called "Universe Sandbox". They say a picture is worth a 1,000 words. See where Mars, Earth, and Saturn are.

Spoiler:

We've already had a lander on Titan. The Huygens mission. It took a few awesome pics on descent too.

Would not a rover be harder than a lander?

Edit : Thanks for the hint about The Huygens mission. Its been a fun wikipedia read.

Leigen_Zero wrote:

gorgon wrote:
Rocket scientists as the "fittest of the species," huh? Maybe in the control room or a lab. Otherwise not so much. They're definitely some kind of specialized mutant strain.

Not necessarily fittest of the species, but all I'm saying is that the vast majority of the global population's offspring are not really looking to advance human beings as a species, they are quite content to live their lives watching TV and then when the species starts to collapse say, 'oh gak I probably should have done something to help' between mouthfuls of deep-fried-chocolate-coated-bacon-flavoured nachos with extra cheese.

gorgon wrote:I mean, human colonization is a ridiculously expensive waste, considering there's no real reason to get off this planet for another billion years or whatever. Still, at least I see an end purpose there...(extremely) long-term survival.

When you look at the rate at which we are screwing things up, it's much, much less than another billion years (probably 1000-2000 if we are lucky...)

Not to mention that the population of humans on Earth is growing at a staggering rate, which mean we consume all the Earths natural resources much faster than before. With more and more humans on Earth, our consumption will just grw and grow. We need to colonize other planets like Mars if not for the simple fact, that we would REALLY need methane and other gases just to power everything when the Earth does run out. And itll be WAY sooner then a billion years.

I'm off to college soon, (next year) and I'll be studying to become an Astronautical engineer. I freaking love space, and I think we will absolutely be living on another planet before Earth becomes uninhabitable.

Curiosity I guess is just in a limbo of constant tests at the moment. It will start moving in about a week.

Oh, and Labmouse, if you don't know about Cassini (the probe that was the other part of the cassini-huygens mission) it's still going and sends back pictures every week or so.

Leigen_Zero wrote:I mean, I am currently using a massive, intangible network that harnesses the power of electrons to look at photos taken by a robot the size of a go-kart that we have somehow launched into space and successfully landed on another planet, yet at the same time we exhibit an almost deific worship of persons such as Kim Kardashian, who have contributed nothing to the advancement of our society other than possessing aesthetically pleasing buttocks...

To be fair, it took millions of years of evolution to get a hinder like that. SCIENCE!

Surtur, that's exactly what Liegen was trying to say I'm quite sure. I hope that was a joke...

Though I am FETHING PROUD that I don't even really know who Kim Kardashian is, other than that she is some female who people seem to find attractive. I take a certain pride in my total ignorance of "celeberity pop culture". It's fething moronic.

Space is our future. People's thoughts are often too earthbound to realize that though. In 1000 years the 2012 economy won't matter, neither will any of the moronic pop culture icons. But the discoveries of NASA will still be known, especially to the people living on Mars by then. Heck, I would be willing to bet that Curiosity will be in a museum someday. A museum on fething Mars.

GalacticDefender wrote:
Space is our future. People's thoughts are often too earthbound to realize that though. In 1000 years the 2012 economy won't matter, neither will any of the moronic pop culture icons. But the discoveries of NASA will still be known, especially to the people living on Mars by then. Heck, I would be willing to bet that Curiosity will be in a museum someday. A museum on fething Mars.

Quote for truth...

I really do hope they discover something other than Mars is just cold and dead.........a space ship would be nice - preferably a friendly race or nearly as good a salvagable one.........

give us the alien tech goodness.....

Would be good to find some archeotech out there.

Heck, just some sort of archeological find would be nice, seriously, a vase, an arrowhead, anything...

Otherwise as far as we care (and can reasonably cope with) we are pretty much alone in space (what with vast stellar distances), and, well, that's the sound of the hope of a hundred thousand nerds being dashed...

Meh. Interstellar travel will come later. I think it will start with generation ships, them maybe we will discover some sort of interdimensional travel.

But even if the Curiosity rover doesn't even discover microbes, if we learned things about the atmopshere or geology of mars, or about where water used to flow and why it no longer does, the mission wil still be a HUGE success, and will probably help us later on when we send humans. In fact, research for future human landing is actually listed on it's mission objectives list, which is no small thing.

There is a great show on Science Channel called "Through the Wormhole" that's hosted by Morgan Freeman. In one of the shows this concept was explained....

You are limited by the speed of light. Its not just a good idea, its the law.
However, you can play with some other things to go faster than the speed of light. You can bend space in front of your spaceship and expand the space behind your ship. This allows you to go the same speed, but need to cover less distance in front of you. Its a way to achieve interstellar travel without breaking the laws of physics.

While we may start with generation ships, I expect by the time the generation ships arrive, we would already have built these ships and they would have arrived centuries before the generation ships.

Still say it looks like a remote camera in southern Arizona.

My favorite Curiosity photoshop so far:

KalashnikovMarine wrote:Still say it looks like a remote camera in southern Arizona.

My favorite Curiosity photoshop so far:

Spoiler:

Why would you even (if serious) suggest that the rover is not on Mars? Are you really in such disbelief that another planet can resemble our own that you turn to stupid unfounded conspiracy theories?

Also, if it was Arizona there would be plants. If NASA actually wanted to fake a mars landing, they would go to somethere like the Atacama desert in Chile. Also a photograph of the rover has been taken from orbit by the Mars Global Surveyor (I think. It might be a different orbiter.)


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Oh, and for those of us who haven't put on a tin foil hat, heres is the latest update: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/multimedia/pia16065b.html


Looks like the first destination has been chosen.

Sar-casm (n): The use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

Thanks for your knee jerk reaction though!

labmouse42 wrote:There is a great show on Science Channel called "Through the Wormhole" that's hosted by Morgan Freeman. In one of the shows this concept was explained....

You are limited by the speed of light. Its not just a good idea, its the law.
However, you can play with some other things to go faster than the speed of light. You can bend space in front of your spaceship and expand the space behind your ship. This allows you to go the same speed, but need to cover less distance in front of you. Its a way to achieve interstellar travel without breaking the laws of physics.

While we may start with generation ships, I expect by the time the generation ships arrive, we would already have built these ships and they would have arrived centuries before the generation ships.

Problem is the only thing which can bend Space like that is gravity and as gravity is so weak you need something massive, such as a Star or even a Black Hole, to get it to work.

Travelling at relativistic speed is, with our current knowledge, the only feasible option for interstellar travel. Without Time Dilation the time it takes to travel the distances between stars is too large. The fastest object we've made (Helios 2, a probe sent into orbit around the sun) travelled at 70,220 metres per second, or 70.22 kilometres per second. The closest star system to us is Proxima Centauri which is 4.24 light years away or 4.011x10^13 kilometres. So Helios 2 would take 18,112 years to reach it. No ship will last that long in space, as no recycling system is 100% perfect, not to mention that things will break and eventually you won't have the resources aboard to fix them.


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On topic, this is exciting. If we do find life on Mars then it will possibly be the greatest scientific discovery of the 21st Century (so far, at least ) though if the particle discovered at CERN is the Higgs then it will be facing some stiff competition

KingCracker wrote:

Leigen_Zero wrote:

gorgon wrote:
Rocket scientists as the "fittest of the species," huh? Maybe in the control room or a lab. Otherwise not so much. They're definitely some kind of specialized mutant strain.

Not necessarily fittest of the species, but all I'm saying is that the vast majority of the global population's offspring are not really looking to advance human beings as a species, they are quite content to live their lives watching TV and then when the species starts to collapse say, 'oh gak I probably should have done something to help' between mouthfuls of deep-fried-chocolate-coated-bacon-flavoured nachos with extra cheese.

gorgon wrote:I mean, human colonization is a ridiculously expensive waste, considering there's no real reason to get off this planet for another billion years or whatever. Still, at least I see an end purpose there...(extremely) long-term survival.

When you look at the rate at which we are screwing things up, it's much, much less than another billion years (probably 1000-2000 if we are lucky...)

Not to mention that the population of humans on Earth is growing at a staggering rate, which mean we consume all the Earths natural resources much faster than before. With more and more humans on Earth, our consumption will just grw and grow. We need to colonize other planets like Mars if not for the simple fact, that we would REALLY need methane and other gases just to power everything when the Earth does run out. And itll be WAY sooner then a billion years.

Or governments could just ignore the oil giants, fund fusion research properly and play humanity's get out of jail free card. That way nobody needs to live on a dead little red planet.

Surtur wrote:

Leigen_Zero wrote:I mean, I am currently using a massive, intangible network that harnesses the power of electrons to look at photos taken by a robot the size of a go-kart that we have somehow launched into space and successfully landed on another planet, yet at the same time we exhibit an almost deific worship of persons such as Kim Kardashian, who have contributed nothing to the advancement of our society other than possessing aesthetically pleasing buttocks...

To be fair, it took millions of years of evolution to get a hinder like that. SCIENCE!

That hinder has been probed more than the surface of Mars for sure...

KalashnikovMarine wrote:Sar-casm (n): The use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

Thanks for your knee jerk reaction though!

I was pretty sure you were trollin', but there are sadly quite a few people who think everything NASA does is some sort of fake.

GalacticDefender wrote:

KalashnikovMarine wrote:Sar-casm (n): The use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

Thanks for your knee jerk reaction though!

I was pretty sure you were trollin', but there are sadly quite a few people who think everything NASA does is some sort of fake.

I don't think those people can use computers

cause you know the CIA brain waves

No harm no foul, sorry if I bit back hard

Glorioski wrote:

KingCracker wrote:

Leigen_Zero wrote:

gorgon wrote:
Rocket scientists as the "fittest of the species," huh? Maybe in the control room or a lab. Otherwise not so much. They're definitely some kind of specialized mutant strain.

Not necessarily fittest of the species, but all I'm saying is that the vast majority of the global population's offspring are not really looking to advance human beings as a species, they are quite content to live their lives watching TV and then when the species starts to collapse say, 'oh gak I probably should have done something to help' between mouthfuls of deep-fried-chocolate-coated-bacon-flavoured nachos with extra cheese.

gorgon wrote:I mean, human colonization is a ridiculously expensive waste, considering there's no real reason to get off this planet for another billion years or whatever. Still, at least I see an end purpose there...(extremely) long-term survival.

When you look at the rate at which we are screwing things up, it's much, much less than another billion years (probably 1000-2000 if we are lucky...)

Not to mention that the population of humans on Earth is growing at a staggering rate, which mean we consume all the Earths natural resources much faster than before. With more and more humans on Earth, our consumption will just grw and grow. We need to colonize other planets like Mars if not for the simple fact, that we would REALLY need methane and other gases just to power everything when the Earth does run out. And itll be WAY sooner then a billion years.

Or governments could just ignore the oil giants, fund fusion research properly and play humanity's get out of jail free card. That way nobody needs to live on a dead little red planet.

This isnt Star Trek, our governments do not work together for the greater good, and nothing is done without a major corporation making an assload of money from it. Tesla invented free energy around 100 years agoish, and guess what? Im still paying my consumers bill every month.

The wheels have started turning, and it is expected to start moving tomorrow.

Also, another mission to Mars was announced, a stationary probe that will investigate the geology and possible geothermal (marsothermal?) heat.

Official video of the landing. Be sure to open in full screen mode and enjoy in 1080 HD!

That. Was awesome.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2192008/Are-Martian-overlords---just-dead-pixels-camera-Images-beamed-Curiosity-lead-talk-UFOs-Mars.html

 reds8n wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2192008/Are-Martian-overlords---just-dead-pixels-camera-Images-beamed-Curiosity-lead-talk-UFOs-Mars.html

Obviously the Daily Mail is concerned about immigration from space.

 reds8n wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2192008/Are-Martian-overlords---just-dead-pixels-camera-Images-beamed-Curiosity-lead-talk-UFOs-Mars.html

Glorioski wrote:

 reds8n wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2192008/Are-Martian-overlords---just-dead-pixels-camera-Images-beamed-Curiosity-lead-talk-UFOs-Mars.html

Obviously the Daily Mail is concerned about immigration from space.

Haha very good..

Those aren't aliens...they're *ghosts*. MARS IS HAUNTED! OH NOES!

Glorioski wrote:
Or governments could just ignore the oil giants, fund fusion research properly and play humanity's get out of jail free card. That way nobody needs to live on a dead little red planet.

That's it in a nutshell. Mars is the friendliest place for humanity in our solar system, and it's a cold, dead, very inhospitable rock. I don't get the natural resources argument. We'll run out of oil soonish, but we'll have alternatives by then. It's not like there'll be oil on Mars anyway, lol. We might run out of fresh water at some point, but we have oceans full of water and desalinization and recycling projects would have to cost less than the trillions it'd take to have a meaningful colony on Mars. Minerals, etc. are potentially recyclable, and we'll develop new building materials and such with time. Our population is expanding, but only in certain regions, and they'll likely level off too as they become wealthier and more modern. Our problems here are solvable. Our challenges in space are almost infinite.

Earth is our home and a very friendly place for our species. Our best survival strategy is to protect our home for as long as possible, not to seek to prematurely ditch it in favor of infinitely deadlier places. That's why I think it's ridiculous that we p*ss away billions on space stations that don't really do anything and quests for microbial life that don't really help our species, when we should be plowing that money into planetary defense systems. You want a short-term species survival issue? I'd say asteroid/comet/object impacts are a pretty big one, especially when we know they've happened before with disastrous consequences.