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labmouse42 wrote:

Frazzled wrote:People without transportation (often the poor or elderly) that can't go to the right offices to get the ID.
****Then how are they going to vote? How are they going to the doctor?

I mean no disrespect, but this statement sounds like you have never lived in a city without a car.

I lived in San Francisco for a number of years and did not own a car. When I wanted to see the doctor or went to work, I would take the public transit system (called MUNI or BART). When I wanted to vote, I would walk 2 blocks down to the local church to vote. When I wanted a beer, I would walk to the bar down the street then stagger home.
Most big cities are like this.

If the ID office was located 20 miles outside the city with no public transportation routes, they were effectively impossible for me to get to. I would have to travel to the closest BART line and then walk for 5-6 hours after that to reach the office.

That's how you make it impossible for someone living in an inner city to get an ID. If the ID office is in the city, then its no problem. Its when the office is set up so its impossible to practically reach for citizens its a problem.

They drive to their own mailboxes in Texas.

I think it's disingenuous to claim this is something that can't be overcome. It will be. But this law is absolutely intended to disenfranchise people, if only for a short while.

The old Carville quote describes PA pretty well -- "Two big cities with Alabama in between." Five counties in PA -- Philadelphia county and the surrounding 'burb counties (Montgomery, Chester and Bucks), and Allegheny county (Pittsburgh) represent a huge chunk of the population. You really only have to win there and you'll carry the state. If the GOP can blunt the votes in Philadelphia and Allegheny counties, and pull even-ish in the three Philly suburban counties, they'll have a chance.

But I still don't think PA will go to the GOP, so it's ultimately much ado about nothing. Other than the ethical implications, of course.

Frazzled wrote:If God had intended Man to live without automobiles He would not have created Carroll Shelby. You aren't some hippy pink underwear wearin long haired tree hugger are ya boy?

LOL
Think of the other thing SF is known for.

That's right. Technology companies like Oracle, Google, and Apple.
I was out there when I was doing technology work for Electronic Arts (EA).

The Department of State said this is a military issue and they will have all my records, just contact them and get the paperwork from the base. So I guess in order to pick up the papers in person I would just have to travel back to Germany to get them. But luckily for me the base closed about 6 years earlier, so all the records were shipped to some warehouse and are probably hanging out in some salt-mine stateside. Well, after a lot of talking to the military and a couple months of searching by them it turns out that all records of my birth were lost. As far as the military is concerned I was never born.

How long ago was this? Did you (father) look into DEERS. Also, I say this everyone lower enlisted, SAVE ALL YOUR DOCUMENTS. Reason why I ask is the military digitizing everything. Does your father have a AKO account?

Frazzled wrote:People without transportation (often the poor or elderly) that can't go to the right offices to get the ID.
****Then how are they going to vote? How are they going to the doctor? You know you have to have ID to verify Medicare don’t you? You know most states (and this one actually) have portable ID vans that come to nursing homes etc. to register you.

My father lives in a fairly poor neighborhood, where the DMV is about 2 hours away by bus, maybe more. But the fire station where they vote is about 10 minute walk.
Then there is my situation, the DMV is only open when im at work/school. other then fridays, meaning if i want to to something to get my license or something like an ID i have to bum a ride from a friend or have my mom switch days off because the bus there runs irregularly.
The point im making at is DMV's are to far and inbetween(and evil, they failed me for nothing) then other voting places.

Ever thought about burning a vacation day to go get a photo ID? Plan ahead.

labmouse42 wrote:

Frazzled wrote:If God had intended Man to live without automobiles He would not have created Carroll Shelby. You aren't some hippy pink underwear wearin long haired tree hugger are ya boy?

LOL
Think of the other thing SF is known for.

That's right. Technology companies like Oracle, Google, and Apple.
I was out there when I was doing technology work for Electronic Arts (EA).

Yea we have those jobs in Austin too. Some of my best friends are Californians fleeing California.
Thats not technology. Transocean, Boeing, Weatherford, Cameron, SRD Shell, Northrup, now thats high tech.

Jihadin wrote:

The Department of State said this is a military issue and they will have all my records, just contact them and get the paperwork from the base. So I guess in order to pick up the papers in person I would just have to travel back to Germany to get them. But luckily for me the base closed about 6 years earlier, so all the records were shipped to some warehouse and are probably hanging out in some salt-mine stateside. Well, after a lot of talking to the military and a couple months of searching by them it turns out that all records of my birth were lost. As far as the military is concerned I was never born.

How long ago was this? Did you (father) look into DEERS. Also, I say this everyone lower enlisted, SAVE ALL YOUR DOCUMENTS. Reason why I ask is the military digitizing everything. Does your father have a AKO account?

That was in 1997. Between the shutting down of the base, moving tons of paperwork, storing it who knows where, a big warehouse fire somewhere if current rumors are correct when I hear from veterans that lost papers, and then getting stuff shuffled around to get digitized it was simply lost. We've even had our congressman on the case at one point, but nothing was ever found.

I'm the thing from the swamp. If I ever run for president they will have a field day with me .

hotsauceman1 wrote:

Frazzled wrote:People without transportation (often the poor or elderly) that can't go to the right offices to get the ID.
****Then how are they going to vote? How are they going to the doctor? You know you have to have ID to verify Medicare don’t you? You know most states (and this one actually) have portable ID vans that come to nursing homes etc. to register you.

My father lives in a fairly poor neighborhood, where the DMV is about 2 hours away by bus, maybe more. But the fire station where they vote is about 10 minute walk.
Then there is my situation, the DMV is only open when im at work/school. other then fridays, meaning if i want to to something to get my license or something like an ID i have to bum a ride from a friend or have my mom switch days off because the bus there runs irregularly.
The point im making at is DMV's are to far and inbetween(and evil, they failed me for nothing) then other voting places.

Then absentee vote. Otherwise life sucks, man up and take your responsponbilities seriously and get an ID. How else are you going to buy booze afterall? Come on won't someone think of the children here?

Jihadin wrote:Ever thought about burning a vacation day to go get a photo ID? Plan ahead.

Well i have one, and also i dont work enough for vacation.

Jihadin wrote:Ever thought about burning a vacation day to go get a photo ID? Plan ahead.

What, is every job now required to give you paid vacation?

@D-USA. KK your records were lost in warehouse fire at Kaiserslautern in mid 90's. Not sure to be exact but I do remember a bunch of files were lost due to a fire. I had a couple soldiers situation that mirrored yours a bit but they kept original documents and pretty much went through JAG to square it away concerning their kids.

Jihadin wrote:@D-USA. KK your records were lost in warehouse fire at Kaiserslautern in mid 90's. Not sure to be exact but I do remember a bunch of files were lost due to a fire. I had a couple soldiers situation that mirrored yours a bit but they kept original documents and pretty much went through JAG to square it away concerning their kids.

Having the passport now clears away any questions of citizenship, but I would have hated to have to go through this with all the new regulations and crap in place today.

As long as Donald Trump doesn't want to see my real birth certificate I don't expect any trouble. But it is a good example that "just go get ID" is not always as easy done as said.

KalashnikovMarine wrote:I don't see the problem with voter ID. The left screams about disenfranchising minorities, but if they're legal to vote they're legal to and I believe in most states by law required to have a state I.D.

Therefore the only people getting screwed here are people who aren't legally allowed to vote.

The AP story wrote:The original Republican rationale for the law – to prevent election fraud – played little role in the court case. Government lawyers acknowledged that they are "not aware of any incidents of in person voter fraud." Instead, they insisted that lawmakers properly exercised their latitude to make election-related laws.

You should have a problem with a government wasting taxpayer time and effort to pass a law that, bu their own admission, solves a problem that literally does not exist.

Lets say 99 percent of all citizens in Pennsylvania are unaffected by this law. That's a great result, right? Congratulations, you just disenfranchised 130,000 people who have the legal right, a vote that in some instance their parents and grandparents and ancestors marched and protested and were teargassed and hung and beaten and killed to give them. These are real Americans, who live and work in this country, who no longer can participate in the political process because one side wants to play shady games with their rights to make sure no goblins or trolls or boogeymen show up. How dare you, I say.

Ouze...the Boogyman from The Secret World not need to show up and vote....SoB is scarey

I was just painting, and I have to say, I can't stop thinking about this. It really bothers me how conservatives can champion something like this, something so unambiguously and plainly awful.

The man said this law will hand Romney Pennsylvania, flat out said it. Instead of competing in the arena of ideas, they've decided to kick people off the rolls so they could win. Why aren't you up in arms about this? There are those of you who will scrutinize every bullet the government buys because you're sure any day now they are going to install a repressive regime to steal your freedom, and yet here we are, while they actually start doing it, while openly stating they are going to steal a precious freedom, the most basic one from which most others flow - the right to be heard by your government - and you fall silent. Worse, you applaud it, because it means a win for "your team".

It's unbelievable. Where is the Tea Party, with their no taxation without reperesentation and don't tread on me signs? Don't you guys see what hypocritical toolboxes this makes you look like to the rest of the country? Don't you see how you guys are actually hurting America with shenanigans like this?

If only you guys loved the rest of the constitution as much as you loved the goddamn second amendment.

Score one for conservative voter fraud and systematic disenfranchisement. Score 0 for democracy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:

Frazzled wrote:People without transportation (often the poor or elderly) that can't go to the right offices to get the ID.
****Then how are they going to vote? How are they going to the doctor? You know you have to have ID to verify Medicare don’t you? You know most states (and this one actually) have portable ID vans that come to nursing homes etc. to register you.

My father lives in a fairly poor neighborhood, where the DMV is about 2 hours away by bus, maybe more. But the fire station where they vote is about 10 minute walk.
Then there is my situation, the DMV is only open when im at work/school. other then fridays, meaning if i want to to something to get my license or something like an ID i have to bum a ride from a friend or have my mom switch days off because the bus there runs irregularly.
The point im making at is DMV's are to far and inbetween(and evil, they failed me for nothing) then other voting places.

Then absentee vote. Otherwise life sucks, man up and take your responsponbilities seriously and get an ID. How else are you going to buy booze afterall? Come on won't someone think of the children here?

What a surprise, frazzled is for a worthless voter registration law specifically targeted at democratic voters. One that was admitted to be such by the laws creators. In a state where there is no evidence past or present of voter fraud. Frazzled, the modern confessed libertarian votes against freedom and for government control because it gives his boys a few extra votes.

The shock I feel at this obvious and oh so surpising admittence of corruption and the willful failure of american democracy is devastating.

Maybepeople who are up in arms about showing a ID card are assuming that there be no help for the disenfranchise to acquire a ID card of some sort. If you take a step out the box and think "hey maybe we have something here" and the next candidate for whatever office ensures everyone that needs to get an ID card of some sort will provide some sort of logistics to it. Heck that would appeal to both sides candidates and show the "people" are cared for.....reaching there I know

Jihadin wrote:Maybepeople who are up in arms about showing a ID card are assuming that there be no help for the disenfranchise to acquire a ID card of some sort. If you take a step out the box and think "hey maybe we have something here" and the next candidate for whatever office ensures everyone that needs to get an ID card of some sort will provide some sort of logistics to it. Heck that would appeal to both sides candidates and show the "people" are cared for.....reaching there I know

I don't care what the post facto justification is. There was no voter fraud. There is no voter fraud. The law authors admitted that it was a political ploy. It's a bs political ploy and by supporting it you are helping politicize the vote and disenfranchise non republicans. I know you're doing it, they know you're doing it, if you don't that speaks volumes about to what degree you understand the world you live in.

C'mon, lets stop playing pretend, OK. We all know perfectly well what this law is designed to do, so lets stop winking and nodding at each other. You've known since the state law in Texas allowed gun licenses as a form of ID but not college ID's what they're doing with this, and who this is "helping".

d-usa wrote:

Jihadin wrote:Ever thought about burning a vacation day to go get a photo ID? Plan ahead.

What, is every job now required to give you paid vacation?

In Europe, maybe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ouze wrote:C'mon, lets stop playing pretend, OK. We all know perfectly well what this law is designed to do, so lets stop winking and nodding at each other. You've known since the state law in Texas allowed gun licenses as a form of ID but not college ID's what they're doing with this, and who this is "helping".

Well yes, but some people like lying to themselves to make themselves feel better.

Like I said I've no issue with requiring a photo ID card to vote. Penn is a bit of a wild card due to that section 5 of the Civil Rights Act. The revrse is if you feel that no ID card is required then you must agree that everyone can vote including those that are here illegaly that the Democrat are protecting for their votes. Might as well throw it out there since its a republican conspiracy thats its also a democrat conspiracy to to avoid the ID card....blah blah blah battle might be over in WoT

Jihadin, could you please read the thread again? I started to write an explanation to you, then realized other people already did it and you're ignoring it.

bouncing between this and WoT

Like I said I've no issue with requiring a photo ID card to vote. Penn is a bit of a wild card due to that section 5 of the Civil Rights Act. The revrse is if you feel that no ID card is required then you must agree that everyone can vote including those that are here illegaly that the Democrat are protecting for their votes.

No, you only think that if you have no idea what the world is actually like, what politics are actually like, or what that state is actually like. There is no case for illegals committing voter fraud by voting en masse in Penn. Pretending that people are defending the rights of non citizens to vote by being against this is both plainly factually wrong and it's intellectually lazy. That's like thinking heavier things fall faster.

Might as well throw it out there since its a republican conspiracy thats its also a democrat conspiracy to to avoid the ID card....blah blah blah battle might be over in WoT

Pennsylvania's House majority leader, Mike Turzai, a Republican, was quoted in June saying that the law "is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done."

It's not a conspiracy WHEN THEY ADMITTED TO IT OPENLY IN FRONT OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.

Ouze a concealed carry license is an official ID issued by the state with all the protections they build in to state IDs against forgery. You can print up college IDs look a likes at home. That's the difference there and why trying to buy beer with a college ID doesn't work in most states.

What's killing me is the solution's quite simple and honestly having a valid photo ID is pretty much mandatory to survive in the modern world. Every argument offered against that is a pretty thin excuse. Even our own member who had an issue shockingly managed to over come it by being willing to do the work for it.

I'm for this because it seems like common sense "Prove who you are and that you're a legal US citizen who's eligible to vote." That said the motivation behind it isn't less disgusting because it's sensible nor do I count this as a win for my "team" for starters there's only one team and they play the partisan game mostly to keep everyone else distracted. Personally Obama and Romney are the same kind of jackass with slightly different wrapping paper.

Personally Obama and Romney are the same kind of jackass with slightly different wrapping paper.

On one level I agree with this.

On another, people thought the same thing about Bush vs. Gore, and that most likely was the difference between making up justifications to and invading Iraq, and not doing so.

Ouze a concealed carry license is an official ID issued by the state with all the protections they build in to state IDs against forgery. You can print up college IDs look a likes at home. That's the difference there and why trying to buy beer with a college ID doesn't work in most states.

Actually, most college IDs don't give an age. That's why you can't and never will be able to use them to buy liquor. They'd also have to be specifically allowed as a form of ID accepted by a state for liquor purchasing, and given the propensity for underage drinking by college students they wouldn't do that.

In my state you can't use a gun ID to buy alcohol and the gun licenses aren't hard to forge (they're actually easier than college IDs, I could forge one in under 3 minutes with photoshop).

What's killing me is the solution's quite simple and honestly having a valid photo ID is pretty much mandatory to survive in the modern world.

A college student who doesn't drink or drive has no reason to have a "valid ID". I know I didn't have my social security card with me when I was dorming. Roll again bucko, you missed your skill check with this one.

Every argument offered against that is a pretty thin excuse.

How about "It isn't required and statistically there are millions of people who are legally able to vote but do not have a required form of ID in the state of Pennsylvania." Is that one too hard to grasp?

I'm for this because it seems like common sense

No, you're in this because you're a party soldier and have no idea what the facts are concerning this issue.

That said the motivation behind it isn't less disgusting because it's sensible nor do I count this as a win for my "team" for starters there's only one team and they play the partisan game mostly to keep everyone else distracted. Personally Obama and Romney are the same kind of jackass with slightly different wrapping paper.

And all your presents are wrapped in red. Feigning disgust doesn't really change what your your views spell out clear as day.

http://www.texaschllicense.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/new-tx-chl-license.jpg

This isn't gonna be that much harder to forge than the average drivers license, and people forge those all the time.

Fake IDs aren't all that hard to make.

Which means that anyone who really wants to commit voter fraud probably won't be stopped by a voter ID law.

The people it will mostly stop, are poor folks, old folks, and college kids who don't need a photo ID for day to day living.

Mannahnin wrote:Fake IDs aren't all that hard to make.

Which means that anyone who really wants to commit voter fraud probably won't be stopped by a voter ID law.

The people it will mostly stop, are poor folks, old folks, and college kids who don't need a photo ID for day to day living.

The vast, vast majority of fraud is done via absentee ballot which doesn't require a photo ID either. This whole thing is just idiotic and corrupt to its core.