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 swordwind99 wrote:
Seems perfectly acceptable, if the manufacture and holder of your trade account tells you that the release day for this release is "x" whats the problem?

The problem is that the retailer is then expected to store a product that they can't sell yet. A problem that can be avoided if the supplier simply co-ordinates their deliveries so that the product gets to the store when it is supposed to.

Having a set release date is fine. Expecting retailers to make up for the deficiencies in your supply chain is not.

 ironicsilence wrote:
this policy has been in place for a while now

No, no it hasn't. This policy just took effect, and has not been in place for the last decade, at least.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For all of you saying "But movies...video games..." etc

Realize that those industries actually give retailers information on the products coming out. They can take pre-orders of the products from customers. They can advertsie the products ahead of time. They can plan release parties, and schedule events around the product releases to enhance sales.


We can't do any of those fething things. GW hasn't even sent me product info on the Chaos release yet, and won't talk about it. All my info came from the White Dwarf.

I'd kill for the support that video, movie and other successful entertainment industries give to their retailers.

 Conrad Turner wrote:
No, from GW's (limited) point of view, it does make sense.

If Johnny public can go to his FLGS on a Friday and pick up his shinies then, what reason does he have to go into his nearest GW store and get them on the Saturday?

However, if, like me, the FLGS sells at prices lower than the GW store, Johnny will just wait until Saturday and still get them in his FLGS.

Despite GW thinking this is a smart move, it's still not doing them any favours!

This assumes there *is* a GW store nearby. In the US, there's only a couple metro areas and a scattering of random backwoods stores on the east coast that have GW stores. In most of the US, it's several hundred miles to the nearest *actual* GW store. Hell, where I live, in a metro area with more than 3 million people, there only 4 or 5 FLG's that even have GW stuff, only 2 that people ever really play at, and no GW store without driving 200 miles north.

 swordwind99 wrote:

Dont forget GW hates indies and if they could they would drop them like a bad smell,the fact they havent managed to force more of them out of selling GW stock for a discount still amazes me.

No they don't.
They actively seek out more trade accounts/indoes to sell their product through. They want other people to sell their stuff.
Check the list of indies selling GW stuff in the latest WD and compare that to 6 months ago. You'll see that they're expanding their trade accounts. Hardly the actions of a company that hates indies...

"Street Dates" for products is hardly a new concept, nor are penalties for breaking them. I just wish GW's street date wasn't a weekend, because anyone ordering these things and not going into a store then has to wait even longer for them to show up.

This is also part of the "plan" to drive in-store traffic, as opposed to online sales.

Lorizael wrote:Check the list of indies selling GW stuff in the latest WD and compare that to 6 months ago. You'll see that they're expanding their trade accounts.

Six months ago White Dwarf was only listing the new retailers. This is the first time in a while they've listed all of the existing retailers in White Dwarf.

 Lorizael wrote:

 swordwind99 wrote:

Dont forget GW hates indies and if they could they would drop them like a bad smell,the fact they havent managed to force more of them out of selling GW stock for a discount still amazes me.

No they don't.
They actively seek out more trade accounts/indoes to sell their product through. They want other people to sell their stuff.
Check the list of indies selling GW stuff in the latest WD and compare that to 6 months ago. You'll see that they're expanding their trade accounts. Hardly the actions of a company that hates indies...

You beat me to it, sensible post. Corporations love cashflow, this would also go some way to levelling the playing field for games stores (some has to get the first delivery after all).

How will GW detect non compliance; other game store will probably do this for them.

I wonder how many people complaining about this like being Jonny-big-banana who get their stuff first from their "connections". It is Serioz bidnezz after all.

As with most GW related news I'll think I'll be filing this one under storm in a tea cup.

 Vaktathi wrote:
This assumes there *is* a GW store nearby. In the US, there's only a couple metro areas and a scattering of random backwoods stores on the east coast that have GW stores. In most of the US, it's several hundred miles to the nearest *actual* GW store. Hell, where I live, in a metro area with more than 3 million people, there only 4 or 5 FLG's that even have GW stuff, only 2 that people ever really play at, and no GW store without driving 200 miles north.

Not entirely. It is still just a question of scale. My home is in Warminster, my nearest GW store to that is Bath (about 18 miles) My nearest GW stocking FLGS is in Westbury (about 5 miles) and they sell cheaper. OK, they might not have all the range, but they have most of the new stuff. And that is why I was saying that the move was still not doing GW any favours. So what if I have to wait another day or so to get GW models from my FLGS, I'll wait, save on petrol, and get them cheaper!

 scipio.au wrote:
Videogames also have street dates. It's funny watching (via the internet) as one retailer or another breaks the date for a game, then they all go for it once word gets out. Funny how EA, Activision, Ubisoft, despite being much larger than GW can't push their retailers around. Unlike GW, which relies on their retailers predominantly being small niche hobby stores which they can bully. Also why GW got laughed out of Wal-Mart during negotiations to stock their product years ago...

Woah, a little more on this Wal-Mart thing?

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

 Lordhat wrote:

skarsol wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Because nothing scores you sales like refusing to sell something to the guy standing in front of you with cash in hand, and telling him to come back tomorrow.

Dont advertise that you have product that isn't for sale yet and you wont have that problem.

Regular customers know EXACTLY when their FLGS gets it's shipment, no advertising required.

Just because customers know when a delivery arrives doesn't mean they have a right to the stock straight away, whether they've got cash in hand or not. Would you rather wait a few days or find out your FLGS has eventually closed because they've lost 6 months of sales through impatience?

The point of not selling something before 12.01 is stupid though, a lot of GW stuff is announced on Saturday's, which are typical gaming stores busiest days, so GW really expect staff to go ahead and re-arrange displays for new stock? pfft


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 swordwind99 wrote:

Dont forget GW hates indies and if they could they would drop them like a bad smell,the fact they havent managed to force more of them out of selling GW stock for a discount still amazes me.

What?? That's absolute rubbish, I work in a place that sells GW stuff. I got on rather well with the sales rep and as long as you meet certain standards set by GW then you'll the equivalent of a power seller. So if you came into the store and said, "I want a £5.50 pack of space marines" ordinarily you'd have to wait until the store generated a £100 order, but with this 'power seller' status you can order it right away, the store doesn't pay for shipping fees and the customer gets their item within a few days, rather than weeks.

The stores also have access to the Direct Only sales, that were only available through the GW website or on those instore order points.

So to say they hates indies is the possible the stupidest thing I've heard.ever. GW make money regardless of whatever the indie sells them for, Dark Vengeance costs £31 in trade value, they don't care if you sell it for £32 because they've got the £31 they set as a price. It's the indies who'll be affected because of a slightly reduced margin, unless they sell loads of stock and it'll be worth it.

 Ghaz wrote:
Six months ago White Dwarf was only listing the new retailers. This is the first time in a while they've listed all of the existing retailers in White Dwarf.

Not true for germany, where all German GW stores and retailers were listed.
Current White Dwarf goes further and lists every GW store and GW retailer of the whole world, with address and telephone, taking 11 pages for that, which may be a regular feature!

In the UK they have been doing that since at least the Necrons came out, which means it is rather expensive for what used to be a hobby magazine but is now a getting to be a GW catalogue with a battle report or other feature thrown in.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
Six months ago White Dwarf was only listing the new retailers. This is the first time in a while they've listed all of the existing retailers in White Dwarf.

Not true for germany, where all German GW stores and retailers were listed.
Current White Dwarf goes further and lists every GW store and GW retailer of the whole world, with address and telephone, taking 11 pages for that, which may be a regular feature!

Yep, until the current issue there was only a single page of retailers in the US White Dwar for quite some time. Half the page was all of the GW stores and the other half was just the new independent retailers. Of course there's a few more independent retailers in the US than there is in Germany I believe

 NAVARRO wrote:
So what are we talking about here? 24/ 48 hours before official release dates?

Independent retailers can sell the stuff as soon as the stock comes in. I bought Dark Vengeance 2 days before it supposedly went on sale. I just happened to be in the store when the UPS truck came in.

 mikhaila wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:
this policy has been in place for a while now

No, no it hasn't. This policy just took effect, and has not been in place for the last decade, at least.

my local gaming store has been getting these type of notices for the last 3 years, maybe they are just special

 Ghaz wrote:

Lorizael wrote:Check the list of indies selling GW stuff in the latest WD and compare that to 6 months ago. You'll see that they're expanding their trade accounts.

Six months ago White Dwarf was only listing the new retailers. This is the first time in a while they've listed all of the existing retailers in White Dwarf.

UK White Dwarf has always listed all independant stockists.

The OZ one always used to as a well. Around when I stopped buying White Dwarf, it had shrunk to a depressingly small list compared to what it used to be.

I wonder when they are going to sanction Apple. I got my WD through the App Store/Newstand at 10:25PM on Friday...

It says they can't sell the merchandise until the said date. This probably doesn't prevent store owners from displaying the merchandise or putting it on "layaway" with the condition that it cannot leave the store (and thus complete the transaction) until the stated time and date. I know this prevents people from getting models and books early, but it also makes them not have to wait around for that specific minute and then rush for the goods. Only problem is I doubt GW would like this at all; especially when LGSs start having massive back orders of models that they shouldn't be selling yet.

I'll ask a different question to those that think this is a load of rubbish/stupid/idiotic or whatever load of bilge your throwing out today.

What makes you so special that you deserve to get new stuff before everyone else?

Sure it would be nice if GW gave indy's a little more frigging notice, but lets face it...GW has enough trouble trusting staffers not to leak stuff so obviously they can't trust indies if every letter they send em winds up on the internet. Pretty sure GW instituted these draconian leak prevention measures to prevent new line cinema from pulling the LOTR license and crushing GW like a bug, after all, GW WAS the source of the early peak at the ringwraiths before the LOTR movies came out, if smog gets leaked the same way you can bet GW will have to pay some hefty damn penalties to New Line Cinema in response.

Street dates are there for reasons that have been well explained by Lorizael already. GW's only other alternative besides trusting stockists to respect it is to simply ensure they don't get their shipments until day of or after and no one wants to see that.

Orktavius wrote:
I'll ask a different question to those that think this is a load of rubbish/stupid/idiotic or whatever load of bilge your throwing out today.

What makes you so special that you deserve to get new stuff before everyone else?

Sure it would be nice if GW gave indy's a little more frigging notice, but lets face it...GW has enough trouble trusting staffers not to leak stuff so obviously they can't trust indies if every letter they send em winds up on the internet. Pretty sure GW instituted these draconian leak prevention measures to prevent new line cinema from pulling the LOTR license and crushing GW like a bug, after all, GW WAS the source of the early peak at the ringwraiths before the LOTR movies came out, if smog gets leaked the same way you can bet GW will have to pay some hefty damn penalties to New Line Cinema in response.

Street dates are there for reasons that have been well explained by Lorizael already. GW's only other alternative besides trusting stockists to respect it is to simply ensure they don't get their shipments until day of or after and no one wants to see that.

Thats the thing, though.

No one here is saying that they are special. The past actions from GW were that they sent out a little note on what was coming out to the stores, then had to go about getting it to said store. WE as in general public, buying some miniatures got our info from coming from the White Dwarf, got a sneak peak of a few units, and the direction in advance, before even having to go the route of trying to get it out. Rumors and backdoor talk comes with a product like miniatures.

What GW is trying to do is stifle all conversation on thier upcoming, and future releases. It isn't about what WE want. it is just a conglomerate company trying to dictate by the boot to smaller distribution points in between gamers and the company.

Since they want to "adapt" a policy of ... "WE will tell you what you need to know", then you can not only expect MORE people trying to leak it, but it might as well be a given that it should be expected...

As to thier issues from , "New Line"... thats not even part of this conversation. GW decided that they NOW, after no matter how long, that they want to "Enforce" a sales date.

We are talking miniatures. period. Wharhammer 40,000, WFB, Specialist stuff, etc. GW's on thier own when it comes to the movie products, they knew that going in, and they can suck that egg if and when it comes again.( If they didn't learn thier lession with the ringwraths, then thats entirly on them.) They have enough experience running off with the C and D machine to even ride that train.


From my point of view, and a long time buyer-

Its being one sided in a two sided conversation, if you want to get down to it.

You can't just arbitrarily tell someone, hey, we are sending you a shipment, but you have to sit on it for a month/ week/ year/ or however long, before WE tell you to sell it. That is dictating how someone else runs thier shop. Might go well for thier stores, but we are talking Brick and Morter stores that are quite literally fighting for sales. They are fighting for sales from GW's own stores, competing stores, the internet, and pretty much being told to suck it, based on an arbitrary date.

I see you taking an adversarial stance on the question, and thats exactly the same question, but from a different angle that a guy who is fighting to make bank on this stuff and sell it to "Little Timmy" is asking.

"What makes this product so special that I have to wait two more weeks and ask someone I don't even know, who is trying to dictate how I make bank how I do business... When they never did this to me before?"

And this is why easter eggs are in the stores just after Christmas, and christmas stock in September.

It used to be that Christmas stock was not put on shelves before 4th December, but stores had to order that stock in November.

Wholesalers wanted more notice as to what retailers wanted, and so asked them to order earlier. Retailers didn't want to have stock hanging around, and didn't want to order something in October, have to pay for it in november, and not get it delivered until December, so had it delivered earlier and put it on the shelves as soon as it came in.

These days, of course, with JIT deliveries it should be possible for companies like GW to deliver on day of release. However, retailers are going to complain about that. Why should they either be forced to close stores so they can ensure product is not walking whilst they are checking and displaying new deliveries, or take the risk of excess "Shrinkage", or stay working late the night before and get the delivery in, checked, and displayed after hours on the night before release.

Either way, this could end up costing smaller independants, who them will be forced to re-evaluate if it makes economic sense for them to deal with GW. This would then mean we all could have to rely more on on-line retail or longer drives to get GW models.

I personally don't think that either is a particularly good outcome for GW.

(And I speak from experience, my parents were self-employed newsagents for 18 years, I saw these things happening)

Orktavius wrote:
What makes you so special that you deserve to get new stuff before everyone else?

I think you may have misunderstood how retail works.

Nobody is thinking they are special. There's a very simple principle at work: I want something. Store has something. If store will sell it to me, then I will buy it.

Street dates serve no useful purpose beyond (if your product is in high enough demand) forcing a few more people into your store on a given day. Which will still happen if you decide to sell some of your stock to customers who happen to be in the store the day before.

 insaniak wrote:

Orktavius wrote:
What makes you so special that you deserve to get new stuff before everyone else?

I think you may have misunderstood how retail works.

Nobody is thinking they are special. There's a very simple principle at work: I want something. Store has something. If store will sell it to me, then I will buy it.

Street dates serve no useful purpose beyond (if your product is in high enough demand) forcing a few more people into your store on a given day. Which will still happen if you decide to sell some of your stock to customers who happen to be in the store the day before.

I don't know, Insaniak.

A release date known in advance should help generate hype, allow a retailer to plan special opening hours and promotions/activities. It can help increase revenue by having specific order incentives and cross promotions and help boost sales for those stores willing to put a bit of thought and graft into it. (that's how I would do it anyway).

If a plan is in place for a release on x day, why should it be okay for retailers to jump the gun, obvioulsy the store is looking to maximise their own profit potential but on a straight sale basis stores will ultimately loose out.

For those with stores, or in retail, perhaps you can answer this.

Is there anything stopping savvy store owners from informing the keen eyed purchaser that in order for him to make the sale he will need to issue a written receipt post dated for the release day? Then do all the electronic bookkeeping on that day later?

I.e. Release is on X date, Average Johnny Consumer comes in and Smart Store Owner Bob says "Now Johnny, here is a receipt dated X despite it actually being Y, just so I can sell this to you now. If you don't accept this then I can't sell it to you until X.". Johnny agrees to keep mum about it, pays (in cash maybe unless Bob can delay EFTPOS or Credit transactions somehow), and Bob does the bookkeeping on X date as if he made the sale then.

Could they do that?

Not unreasonable that they control the sale date on new product. Hardly the only industry where that happens. However, that this somehow encourages more footfall for the independent LGS is nuts. Just say "we're protecting our IP and if you don't like it dont sell it" rather than spuriously making out it's helping the retailers ...

 Atma01 wrote:
For those with stores, or in retail, perhaps you can answer this.

Is there anything stopping savvy store owners from informing the keen eyed purchaser that in order for him to make the sale he will need to issue a written receipt post dated for the release day? Then do all the electronic bookkeeping on that day later?

I.e. Release is on X date, Average Johnny Consumer comes in and Smart Store Owner Bob says "Now Johnny, here is a receipt dated X despite it actually being Y, just so I can sell this to you now. If you don't accept this then I can't sell it to you until X.". Johnny agrees to keep mum about it, pays (in cash maybe unless Bob can delay EFTPOS or Credit transactions somehow), and Bob does the bookkeeping on X date as if he made the sale then.

Could they do that?

Nothing at all. My own local GW did this with certain things, esp. the old army boxes. You'd pay in cash and they'd cut the barcode off the box and stick them both in the store's safe. When Saturday rolled around they simply scanned the barcode at opening time as if the sale was made then and no-one was any the wiser.

Might not work in today's GW environment, but I know this was in practice as little as 6-7 years ago.


I've said it before, but this just smacks of GW trying to be like Apple again. GW are not Apple, they never will be. It always seems to me like GW views Apple as being the cool kid on the block and trying to emulate them in every way, even though their businesses, whilst similar niche markets and simply too different to operate in the same way.

 mikhaila wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:
this policy has been in place for a while now

No, no it hasn't. This policy just took effect, and has not been in place for the last decade, at least.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For all of you saying "But movies...video games..." etc

Realize that those industries actually give retailers information on the products coming out. They can take pre-orders of the products from customers. They can advertsie the products ahead of time. They can plan release parties, and schedule events around the product releases to enhance sales.


We can't do any of those fething things. GW hasn't even sent me product info on the Chaos release yet, and won't talk about it. All my info came from the White Dwarf.

I'd kill for the support that video, movie and other successful entertainment industries give to their retailers.

Guess it escapes many of you that movies, books, etc are intellectual property, too? Anyone remember the Harry Potter early release debacle?

Just stop whining about the lack of pre-release info. There are probably just as many reasons why it doesn't come out as there are the reasons leaks get out i the first place. Once this stuff comes out, the wailing will cease, until the next release andnit will start anew...

 vitki wrote:
I wonder when they are going to sanction Apple. I got my WD through the App Store/Newstand at 10:25PM on Friday...

You're in the US? Not that big a deal. It was Saturday in the UK already most like.

Either way, I don't think they need to sanction Apple. Apple will understand and seek to implement any privacy requests GW may or may not have.

How long do you think your store would be an "official Apple retailer" after you dare spoil stuff for the next iPhone, iPad or whatever Apple is putting out before ol' Cook had one of his "just-like-Steve-did-it"-presentation shows?