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 Jackal wrote:
Why rage? there are worse armies to play against, and your actually complaining about 2 average units and a fairly good one.
Wait until he learns the fun of a necron flying circus, or wordscape shard + tremor stave + special characters.

That's a point the OP might actually be right about - the Necron codex doesn't actually seem to have any really bad units. Some are not quite as inspired as others, but at this stage of the game there's nothing you'll have to leave at home just for being bad. Everything can be used effectively if you want a list with it. Many other armies have units you'll never use because they suck or something else just does it so much better.

You do know you dont foot slog the range of the board to get into assault right?
If you are, then you have a slight issue there.

there is a small problem of assaulting flyers.

Drop a unit with melta by an ark or barge, then have some fun.
If you take a unit of sang guard, grab a banner for them and some melta.
Simply pop the transport, then flood the warriors with power weapon attacks.

only thing that will change is that the necron player will switch to a flyer list leave big blob squad on the table to not auto lose. BAs can neither kill those in a single , nor can they deal with the flyers coming from turn two . And help them god if they drop before the flyers arrive . also DoA bounces of meq armies . I doubt OP wants to beat necron by tailoring , because then his friend will only do the same[and come on top because of more flyers] .

there is a small problem of assaulting flyers.

Then isnt it lucky the OP was talking about barges and arks?
Neither of which are a flyer.

only thing that will change is that the necron player will switch to a flyer list leave big blob squad on the table to not auto lose. BAs can neither kill those in a single , nor can they deal with the flyers coming from turn two . And help them god if they drop before the flyers arrive . also DoA bounces of meq armies . I doubt OP wants to beat necron by tailoring , because then his friend will only do the same[and come on top because of more flyers] .

I think you need to read the OP before you comment, rather than trying to pick apart someone elses post.

1: The crons player does not have a flyer.
Notice the issue with this?
Thats what both of your arguments are centered around.

2: Fast moving melta and FNP for all.
I dont see how it "bounces off meq"
Mix that in with more precise drops and you dont have a great deal of issues.


Edit:

That's a point the OP might actually be right about - the Necron codex doesn't actually seem to have any really bad units. Some are not quite as inspired as others, but at this stage of the game there's nothing you'll have to leave at home just for being bad. Everything can be used effectively if you want a list with it. Many other armies have units you'll never use because they suck or something else just does it so much better.

There are only a few units that dont really shine, ill give you that.
But necrons are mainly resticted by every good unit being a fast attack choice.
Also, necrons require synergy to work well.
Anyone can throw a solid looking list on a table, but being able to make the list work takes more than just that.

I LoL'ed when he said he played space wolves and was complaining about other army's!!
You think you got trouble?
When i started the game with my friends one went tau, one went ultramarines, and the other went orks. I went eldar, i liked the look, the colors the fluff, everything about them.
When the newcrons came out, our tau player switched to crons (hes not so much into the fluff as to how the army plays, and the tau were too underpowered for him).
When they came out, crons were a pain in the ass, mainly because no one knew how to deal with them. I could not beat him, and for the whole time he played crons he lost 2 games (one from a armoured company of guard that WOULD NOT SCATTER, and he could not make ANY saves) and the other to nid (same deal terrible rolling). Plus this guy likes to bring the BEST things in the army (THANK GOD HE DOES NOT BRING WRAITHS).
Then when his necron army was finished, we went to ....... guess what............. SPACE PUPPIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guess how many times my eldar or anyone else has defeated him so far? None.
Anyways the point of my rant, is that even though he played some pretty fu ing annoying army's we still played with him, and it did not ruin the game for us (well there was some whining here and there).
And you should not really be having a problem, your playing one of the most competitive army's out there. You can grab a razer back with a las cannon and TL plasma guns for 75 points. For me to get a simple transport option for my dire avengers,
is 100 points MINIMUM (granted tougher bigger capacity but still over costed compared to space puppies).

lol, if you want fun, play daemons..
Necrons are stupidly tough then, but still possible to beat.
Or, how about play against DE?
Daemons main strength is through greater daemons and princes, who all die equally to a volley of splinter weapons.

Space wolves were the older "broken" army.
Now they are still as good, just not possibly the toughest.
Does not mean that wolfstar, missile fangs and JotWW spam have vanished.

Spetulhu wrote:


That's a point the OP might actually be right about - the Necron codex doesn't actually seem to have any really bad units.

*German players will understand.

Spetulhu wrote:

That's a point the OP might actually be right about - the Necron codex doesn't actually seem to have any really bad units. Some are not quite as inspired as others, but at this stage of the game there's nothing you'll have to leave at home just for being bad. Everything can be used effectively if you want a list with it. Many other armies have units you'll never use because they suck or something else just does it so much better.

Two points. The first is that is it really fair to rage against a codex just because it was well written? Despite the seemingly endless rage against Matt Ward, Codex: Necrons probably has the best internal balance out of any codex I have read. The second is merely to remind you that Flayed Ones are still in the codex, and are still among the most pointless units in the game.

Yeah that and I have zero sympathy for space wolf players. I have had five years of counts as Cheeze Wolves with 100 point runepriests making half my xenos armies completely unplayable, thanks to Jaws of the Brokenwolf and his magical stick of NO on a 4+. Wolves literally have nothing bad in their book, just a lot of things not as good as Grey Hunter and Long Wang spam. Most of my armies would kill to have blood claws as a core choice, really.

Maybe if GW was not adamant about forbidding non Imperial armies from having power axes on your elites you might see a xenos army trying to do something other than spam flyers and tesla. I might take Lichguard again instead of resigning myself to brining wraiths if I want an assault phase if a bunch of butthurt marine enthusiasts had not insisted that Crons not be allowed axes on them. Maybe if the Monolith wasn't getting repeatedly with the nerf bat, you might see them fielded instead of the ubiquitous Barges/Doomscythes. Maybe if every Wolf player out there didn't spam Jaws a Cron might get out of their ride to fight occasionally.

If the OP has problems killing AV13 vehicles with wolves, then he has bigger issues not relating to Necrons. I will take the pepsi challenge with Wolves on the worthless unit comparisson any day. Flayed Ones, C'Tan, Triarchs, Monoliths, and Doomsday Arks are all laughably worse than the worst entry anyone can dig out of any SM book made in the last five years, let alone space wolves. Well, the scout transport landspeeder might be the exception.....

Phazael, i see your point there bud.
My 1st meeting against pups consisted of a unit of 3 fex's all saying goodbye in the space of 3 dice rolls.

I then swapped them to trygons as they will rarely fail on me



But all i see is someone with a strong army complaining about another strong army.
You should do 1 of 2 things.

1: Play against another pups army, you will see just how strong they are when used right.

2: Use them to a higher standard.
If your struggling against crons, then there is a big issue with your unit selection.

I'm a Necron player who always loses to nids and it's not ruining the game for me, I just have to bother changing what brings me most success against other armies. Also, the sympathy against a SW player here will be zero.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I

Man up

Another TF reference..

Anyways, no need to rage on Necrons, move along sir.

i have a solution... MORE DAKKA!!! or just send in da boyz... but for SW... you really shouldn't have that big of a problem... I've played against both armies... (back when i played SM) and the necrons were by far easier... you're just taking the wrong loadouts... that's it.

Ok, first things first: your opponent is taking only one of the two truly overpowered units in his codex, and you are spamming three of the overpowered units in yours. Your liscence to whine went out the window when you started complaining about how broken it was that your long fangs couldn't kill something.

Secondly, he's using wraiths instead of scythes, a unit you just happen to have the hardest counter in the game for. "a two-thirds chance of killing any of the units in his army outright when they make the mistake of hitting the table within 24" of a rune priest? How overpowered!!!1!" seriously. Jaws. Wraiths, a unit with big bases and only I2. How has that solution not crossed your mind.

Second, let's look at lascannons, shall we? 1/3 chance of penning an ark. 1/2 chances of killing it outright with open topped and ap2. I'm not even gonna say melta.

Third. Drop pods. How bout em. Ap1 blows necron vehicles away with 1 lucky pen. One and done.

Combine that with the fact that in his army I see very little ap3-, and your whinge about invuln saves becomes the goofiest thing I've ever seen.

Sorry bro, but despite giving you some advice I hope you keep losing.

the_scotsman wrote:
seriously. Jaws. Wraiths, a unit with big bases and only I2. How has that solution not crossed your mind.

Because you can't Jaws Wraiths, as they're jump infantry, Jaws doesn't effect them. I'm not defending anyone, it just doesn't work.

Jaws and make the army go away. Really painful.

Two ghost arks is normally not that bad. Never had a problem making them go away or having mine go away when I still had my crons.

Space Wolf guy i play beat me regularly until i started bringing spiders to shut down the psychic powers. Then long fangs would wipe out my troops/vehicles. 8-10 Missile launchers you should be getting at least a pen or two per turn against the ghost arks. Cant help it if you just roll bad. Warrior spam only works as long as the arks keep firing out replacements. Take them out and its usually game over vs space wolves.

What you really need to worry about is if he starts taking flyers. Those are a game changer for necrons big time.

Not sure how else to really help you out man. 1500 is really small so you cant take a bunch of stuff. Limited in what you can counter with without giving up something else important.

 Phazael wrote:
Yeah that and I have zero sympathy for space wolf players. I have had five years of counts as Cheeze Wolves with 100 point runepriests making half my xenos armies completely unplayable, thanks to Jaws of the Brokenwolf and his magical stick of NO on a 4+. Wolves literally have nothing bad in their book, just a lot of things not as good as Grey Hunter and Long Wang spam. Most of my armies would kill to have blood claws as a core choice, really.

Oh really? Fenrisian Wolves. 63 point TH/SS Terminators. Skyclaws. Swiftclaw Bikers. Lukas the Trickster. Long Fangs aren't even particularly good anymore...

Phazael wrote:Maybe if GW was not adamant about forbidding non Imperial armies from having power axes on your elites you might see a xenos army trying to do something other than spam flyers and tesla.

Incubi have power axes that aren't Unwieldy. Lychguard can take Warscythes. Chaos can take (gasp!) power axes. Tyranids can take boneswords.

Phazael wrote:I might take Lichguard again instead of resigning myself to brining wraiths if I want an assault phase if a bunch of butthurt marine enthusiasts had not insisted that Crons not be allowed axes on them.

So take warscythes? Complaining that hyperphase swords have to follow the rules for swords is laughable.

How i defeated Arc, Landspeeder equipped with multi-melta
Now you want scary, try a deep striking monolith.
Really necrons arnt that scary, Warriors are Sv4, so heavy bolters and las cannons will have some fun, as with most sternguard ammo.

SW dont have sternguard unless they ally and only las they run is those run in LF squads which not every SW player has.
there is not one unit I can think of now in a SW list that is offten play and has a heavy bolter at the same time.

Makumba wrote:
SW dont have sternguard unless they ally and only las they run is those run in LF squads which not every SW player has.
there is not one unit I can think of now in a SW list that is offten play and has a heavy bolter at the same time.

Razorbacks.

rigeld2 wrote:

Makumba wrote:
SW dont have sternguard unless they ally and only las they run is those run in LF squads which not every SW player has.
there is not one unit I can think of now in a SW list that is offten play and has a heavy bolter at the same time.

Razorbacks.

in 6th ed your trying to play SW MSU ??? thats like giving your opponent first blood in every game.

Makumba wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Makumba wrote:
SW dont have sternguard unless they ally and only las they run is those run in LF squads which not every SW player has.
there is not one unit I can think of now in a SW list that is offten play and has a heavy bolter at the same time.

Razorbacks.

in 6th ed your trying to play SW MSU ??? thats like giving your opponent first blood in every game.

Yes, that's exactly what I said. Only not.
Having some Razorbacks isn't going MSU. And you're exaggerating how quickly vehicles die.

rigeld2 wrote:

Makumba wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Makumba wrote:
SW dont have sternguard unless they ally and only las they run is those run in LF squads which not every SW player has.
there is not one unit I can think of now in a SW list that is offten play and has a heavy bolter at the same time.

Razorbacks.

in 6th ed your trying to play SW MSU ??? thats like giving your opponent first blood in every game.

Yes, that's exactly what I said. Only not.
Having some Razorbacks isn't going MSU. And you're exaggerating how quickly vehicles die.

Glancing AV 11 three times isn't hard for any army, especially Necrons

 TheAngrySquig wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Makumba wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Makumba wrote:
SW dont have sternguard unless they ally and only las they run is those run in LF squads which not every SW player has.
there is not one unit I can think of now in a SW list that is offten play and has a heavy bolter at the same time.

Razorbacks.

in 6th ed your trying to play SW MSU ??? thats like giving your opponent first blood in every game.

Yes, that's exactly what I said. Only not.
Having some Razorbacks isn't going MSU. And you're exaggerating how quickly vehicles die.

Glancing AV 11 three times isn't hard for any army, especially Necrons

You're right, vehicles are dead, no one should run mech ever again. Good game.

rigeld2 wrote:

 TheAngrySquig wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Makumba wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Makumba wrote:
SW dont have sternguard unless they ally and only las they run is those run in LF squads which not every SW player has.
there is not one unit I can think of now in a SW list that is offten play and has a heavy bolter at the same time.

Razorbacks.

in 6th ed your trying to play SW MSU ??? thats like giving your opponent first blood in every game.

Yes, that's exactly what I said. Only not.
Having some Razorbacks isn't going MSU. And you're exaggerating how quickly vehicles die.

Glancing AV 11 three times isn't hard for any army, especially Necrons

You're right, vehicles are dead, no one should run mech ever again. Good game.

No, you should just run mech as effectively as you can. Footslogging everything is equal levels of stupid. The best thing to do with a transport vehicle is to drive it up to an objective, release its cargo, then act as fire support. Razorbacks do fire support well, but 6 guys shouldn't be holding an objective if they can manage

So, I agree with one of the sentiments here - your opponent could be cheesier. For example, he could be throwing a couple of solar pulses in there which, if night fighting happens, means that your opponent could easily be spending 1/2 the game with those AV13 vehicles getting a 3+ jink save. And fliers, and that special character's lightning, etc.

The deal with new necron is like old necron. Back in the day, you were forced to take lascannons against them, because they were immune to everything else. Same is true now.

You glossed over something really important - they're only AV13 until their first penetrating hit. This is huge. Once a single lascannon does its job, then it's just a DE raider or venom. Hardly scary.

It sounds like the biggest problem you're having is the inability to put down S8+ shots. You either need more lascannons, or faster meltaguns.

As for wraiths, they're just faster, more expensive terminators. If you can't handle wraiths then that means you can't handle assault terminators or nob bikes, or a bunch of other things in this category. A more balanced list is in order for you, methinks.

I'm one of OP's friends. Neither the BA or the Necron player. I've been trying to tell him all these things and to keep trying different things, look online, research and just keep playing. Because no one is good right out the gate.

Anyways, they've been playing 1000 points. His list is typically something similar to this.


HQ
Rune Priest
-Chooser of the Slain

Elites
2xWolf Guard
--Combi-Melta
--Power Fist

Troops
5 Grey Hunters
-Melta
--Razorback
--Las/Plas

8 Grey Hunters
-Melta
-Wolf Standard
--Rhino

7 Grey Hunters
-Melta
-Wolf Standard
--Rhino

Heavy Support
6 Longfangs
-5 Missile Launchers

6 Longfangs
-5 Missile Launchers



After he told me his list, I told him that running 2 Wolf Guard is illegal and needs a minimum of 3 (correct me if I'm wrong). So, I want to help him, but not being a SW player myself I can only suggest basic marine strategies. So if someone could help him out with his list that'd be awesome.

Hey, I'm the necron player that Monasou has been playing against. This is my army list for 1000 pts.

HQ
Necron Overlord (CCB MSS Sempiternal Weave Res Orb Warscythe)

Troops
8 Necron Warriors (Ghost Ark)
8 Necron Warriors (Ghost Ark)
11 Necron Warriors

Heavy Support
Annihilation Barge (TL Tesla Destructor, Guass Cannon)
Annihilation Barge (TL Tesla Destructor, Guass Cannon)

As for the deployment I put my group of 11 necron warriors on foot. Behind them are 2 ghost arks and behind the ghost arks are my annihilation barges and the CCB.

The tactics are as goes:

The necron warrior blob acts a sponge that soaks shots in the beginning of the game. Reanimation protocol and the ghost ark bring back fallen necron warriors (providing they pass leadership). Every unit steadily creeps up forward to shoot as much as possible and dwindle down grey hunters and any other threatening units. Towards the mid game the CCB get in safe range to makes sweeping attacks(as well as shooting and assaulting) to kill units that threaten my units. Late game is just a war of attrition as it is difficult to kill something that can stand back if it is not completely wiped out.

Those are my standard tactics for this list.

Help my friend hes having difficulty against my army. Any C&C is appreciated.

You are having trouble with Necrons? You either A. Have no strategy or...B. Your opponent has a good strategy and you have crap anti HI tacticts. I you have wolf guard terminators then gun them down with Assault Cannon/Storm Bolter fire. That normally makes short work of them. And if you have Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield combos deep strike them right behind the vehicle you want dead and trust me by the time your done with 'em it will be pretty damn dead. If not, WHY U NO TAKE LEMAN RUSS? I mean they're pretty badass and pack a Battle Cannon meaning that you will obliterate any infantry they have and you'll obliterate any tanks they have. An if the Battle Cannon ain't enough then why not take a hull mounted Lascannon and Multi Melta Sponsons! And if even after all that they still have something standing then go all Killy with your Grey Hunters. Just charge them straight in or shoot 'em up first and even after all of this you still can take a Dreadnought, Give it 2 Twin-Linked Autocannons and your gonna turn those Necrons into piles of molten iron! However if you play DE like me then you got Dark Lances on your Raiders as standard anyway. Vehicles and Heavy Infantry won't stand a chance. And then you throw in all them SC and all them Blasters to finish off any survivors!

chriachrias wrote:
I'm one of OP's friends. Neither the BA or the Necron player. I've been trying to tell him all these things and to keep trying different things, look online, research and just keep playing. Because no one is good right out the gate.

Anyways, they've been playing 1000 points. His list is typically something similar to this.


HQ
Rune Priest
-Chooser of the Slain

Elites
2xWolf Guard
--Combi-Melta
--Power Fist

Troops
5 Grey Hunters
-Melta
--Razorback
--Las/Plas

8 Grey Hunters
-Melta
-Wolf Standard
--Rhino

7 Grey Hunters
-Melta
-Wolf Standard
--Rhino

Heavy Support
6 Longfangs
-5 Missile Launchers

6 Longfangs
-5 Missile Launchers



After he told me his list, I told him that running 2 Wolf Guard is illegal and needs a minimum of 3 (correct me if I'm wrong). So, I want to help him, but not being a SW player myself I can only suggest basic marine strategies. So if someone could help him out with his list that'd be awesome.

No, you're completely right, it's illegal.

Wow, "Mr Kettle it's Mr Pot on the phone he is calling you black".

Space Wolves are an incredibly good army and this isn't rocket science especially if the dreaded Necrons aren't using flyers.

Solution #1 if the opponent is using multiple arcs or barges drop in a Pod filled with Logan 5x Multi Meltas and a Rune Priest and then say buh bye to the ghost an barges. Or you could go 9x Wolf Guard with combi meltas an a Rune Priest.

Solution #2 for wraiths is frag missile spam. I have almost killed off a 10x terminator squad with 5x Missile Fangs with a Rune priest providing Prescience and the Wraiths will fail those 3+ saves faster than a terminator will fail his.

Wanna assault those vehicles run cav at them. If Necrons aren't fielding flyers and they are a much more beatable army.

Man up, Russ would be ashamed.