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Well, I figured that 2 squads of 6 Wraiths are much more efficient than a single squad. From this perspective, I'd add 3 Heavy Destroyers for anti-TEQ and anti-tank.

I voted 'no' when I ought to have voted 'yes'; I was all set to come gripe about how they ought to be Jetbikes like they used to be before I noticed that their weapons are Assault, not Heavy. They're still reasonably maneuverable, tough, have a good deal of short-ranged firepower, can take on infantry or light vehicles, can take on heavier vehicles with the addition of Heavy Destroyers, and they aren't really competing for the Fast Attack slots with anything more effective.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I figured that 2 squads of 6 Wraiths are much more efficient than a single squad. From this perspective, I'd add 3 Heavy Destroyers for anti-TEQ and anti-tank.

They are effective but 2 squads cost 480pts, and in an average sized army, say 1850, you are needing around 3 troops choices and 2 HQs to be competitive, you will quickly run out of points.

No from me. 200pts for 5 1 wound models with only a 24" range is just too fragile for me. One turn of shooting can wipe them out quite easily and T5 doesn't matter much against the ever prevalent missile and melta spam that exists in the meta. If they were still jetbikes I'd use them becuase of the jink save but as jump infantry they are too slow for my taste.

As for the heavy varients I used 3 at the beginning of the dex quite often as my anti-TEW but I quickly realized that for 175pts I could have 5 destruction crypteks that could sit in cover and do the job better. Just my $.02.

 DragonRider wrote:
Would you recommend Wraiths over Destroyers?

I would recommend spiders of wraiths. If you are taking heavy destroyers for anti-tank, a unit or two of spiders is both dirt cheap and hard to kill, plus provides ammo for boosting the army in the psy defense zone, in melee and making scarabs is always a plus.

Point for point, spiders are better as a melee unit.

For your list, I would recommend two units of heavy destroyers, two destroyer lords (as they can take wounds for the destroyers easily), 9 spiders, a few scarabs and then whatever troops you like.

Instead of going on the standby that most nercon players use, which is a warscythe in every unit, you have 9 spiders. 9 spiders don't care what they go after.

With some troops tossing gauss, the heavy destroyers taking out priority targets, the destroyer lords being able to leave their units and give preferred enemy to any thing else (20 warriors with preferred enemy you say?) and the 9 spiders stocking up on scarabs then going in the mop up, you can handle anything anyone throws at you.

Wraiths are dumb. Fast, but dumb. Mass fire takes them out, not true for spiders, lucky shots take out wraiths, not true for spiders. The only reason to take wraiths is whip coils, but then again I don't suggest relying on shiny gear.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I figured that 2 squads of 6 Wraiths are much more efficient than a single squad. From this perspective, I'd add 3 Heavy Destroyers for anti-TEQ and anti-tank.

They are effective but 2 squads cost 480pts, and in an average sized army, say 1850, you are needing around 3 troops choices and 2 HQs to be competitive, you will quickly run out of points.

Please have a look at jy2's army for a recent GT which he won. You'll find details under the battle reports.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 DragonRider wrote:
Would you recommend Wraiths over Destroyers?

Depends on what you want to do. Wraiths are more effective at taking on light-medium infantry whereas Destroyers excel at killing MEQ at a safe range. The problem is that Destroyers are pretty expensive for a 1W model and only got a 3+. Overall, I'd also prefer Wraiths over Destroyers as they are more effective / sturdy. Heavy Destroyers are worth having a look at though as they can do what Wraiths can't: get rid of heavy vehicles.

Wraiths are probably much more effective at removing heavy vehicles than heavy destroyers are. Think about it, 1 wraith has just as many chances to harm a heavy vehicle as 3 heavy destroyers. 1 wraith costs a FRACTION of points. Yes, heavy destroyers will excel at taking out lighter vehicles, but strictly against heavy vehicles the heavy destroyers still need a 6 pen just like wraiths need a 6 for the rend. Sure you still have to roll a 3 on the rend as well but you get so many more chances with them than you do with heavy destroyers. The only thing the heavy d's have over them is the range, which is VERY important. Honestly, I don't count on anything but warscythes and wraiths to take out heavy armor vehicles.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 DragonRider wrote:
Would you recommend Wraiths over Destroyers?

Depends on what you want to do. Wraiths are more effective at taking on light-medium infantry whereas Destroyers excel at killing MEQ at a safe range. The problem is that Destroyers are pretty expensive for a 1W model and only got a 3+. Overall, I'd also prefer Wraiths over Destroyers as they are more effective / sturdy. Heavy Destroyers are worth having a look at though as they can do what Wraiths can't: get rid of heavy vehicles.

Ok so a few things here i would like to comment on...
First if you use Destroyers you want to put them behind cover of some kind just make sure they dont get put down by AP3 or at least have some chance of not gonig down, cover is your friend! Also regarding wraiths and not being able to take out heavy vehicles.... they can take out a land raider as they have str 6 and on a roll of a 6 that gives them rending for an extra D3 towards armour penetration with a 2-3 your doing damamge to armour 14 so wraiths are deffinetly able to damamge all vehicles but zooming flyers.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I figured that 2 squads of 6 Wraiths are much more efficient than a single squad. From this perspective, I'd add 3 Heavy Destroyers for anti-TEQ and anti-tank.

They are effective but 2 squads cost 480pts, and in an average sized army, say 1850, you are needing around 3 troops choices and 2 HQs to be competitive, you will quickly run out of points.

Please have a look at jy2's army for a recent GT which he won. You'll find details under the battle reports.

I'm not saying its a bad army, just IMO with the current Meta game, I think you need a more diverse army instead of relying on Wraiths. There are effective,counters to Wraiths, and at the competitive level people take them and know how to counter them.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
I'm a big fan of using a single unit of Wraiths w/ whip coils and a DLord w/ Warscythe, and then two units of Destroyers: 3 heavy & 2 normal. (the normal ones end up as ablative wounds, if nothing else)

This, min/maxers tend to cringe at the idea of ablative wounds, but they really buff up the units survivablility significantly as they increase your RP threshold. Also, since they are AP 3 and Gauss, they will be able to damage anything the Heavies shoot at if they happen to be in range.

Exactly.

Of course, I tend to play in a very vehicle-heavy meta, so I prefer the 2x units of Destroyers and only 1 unit of Wraiths. If I generally played a lot more footslogging armies, I might be inclined to only use 1x unit of Destroyers and 2x units of Wraiths.

I need a TAC list so do you guys think 5 Destroyers, 3 Heavy Destroyers, and 6 Wraiths (3 with Whip Coils) will do the trick for my FA slot?

I would just combine the Destroyers and Heavies. You generally only need 2 Heavy Cannons as they are usually shooting heavy tanks and having to makes them effectively a twin-linked combo. You keep them at range and use the regular Destroyers to soak up wounds. Plus a nice with Destroyers is when a Heavy and a regular Destroyer do down and you only make one Resurrection Protocol roll, you can choose which Destroyer to put up.

Combine Heavies and regulars, and you'll be nerfing your target acquisition capabilities. 
(let's say you've got a Tactical team at 10" and Termies at 30" closing in on your Warriors. If you've only got one unit of mixed Destroyers, too bad, you'll have to hope one of your units can survive until the next round of shooting. Two separate units? No prob).

 skoffs wrote:
Combine Heavies and regulars, and you'll be nerfing your target acquisition capabilities. 
(let's say you've got a Tactical team at 10" and Termies at 30" closing in on your Warriors. If you've only got one unit of mixed Destroyers, too bad, you'll have to hope one of your units can survive until the next round of shooting. Two separate units? No prob).

While this is true, it ignores the advantages of combining them, namely that it substantially increases the chance they will get RP rolls. Also, normal destroyer shots aren't really "wasted" against Terms and vehicles and Heavy shots are certainly not wasted against MeQ, particulars FNP and multi wound MeQ. And of course, it allows them to fit in one slot.

Honestly, from my experience at least, you just get a lot more mileage out of the 3x2 then just 3 Heavies alone, and a 5xSquad is just a bit to uni-dimensional for my tastes. Not to say that either option is awful, I certainly see the target priority angel, I just have found the extra resiliency to be a real kicker.

 DragonRider wrote:
I need a TAC list so do you guys think 5 Destroyers, 3 Heavy Destroyers, and 6 Wraiths (3 with Whip Coils) will do the trick for my FA slot?

Well, this could be the way to go. It also depends on the rest of your army.

Worth it ! A multi purpouse unit that can take on anything short of terminators with relative success.
You can take out transports, shoot the hell out of any infintry unit, and them being Gauss weapons they can even harm Land raidersand leman russes if you are desprate enough to shoot them with destroyers that it.

Heavy destroyers on the other hand will easely take out that land raider and snipe one or two of the termies once out in the open.

They key with them is there mobility, Most range units with that amount of fire power are stationary, these guys jump around the place staying out of harms way and positioning themselves to take pot shots at slower moving targets.

Destroyers are nice.

 DragonRider wrote:
I need a TAC list so do you guys think 5 Destroyers, 3 Heavy Destroyers, and 6 Wraiths (3 with Whip Coils) will do the trick for my FA slot?

What point value are you playing at?

azazel the cat wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
I'm a big fan of using a single unit of Wraiths w/ whip coils and a DLord w/ Warscythe, and then two units of Destroyers: 3 heavy & 2 normal. (the normal ones end up as ablative wounds, if nothing else)

This, min/maxers tend to cringe at the idea of ablative wounds, but they really buff up the units survivablility significantly as they increase your RP threshold. Also, since they are AP 3 and Gauss, they will be able to damage anything the Heavies shoot at if they happen to be in range.

Exactly.

Of course, I tend to play in a very vehicle-heavy meta, so I prefer the 2x units of Destroyers and only 1 unit of Wraiths. If I generally played a lot more footslogging armies, I might be inclined to only use 1x unit of Destroyers and 2x units of Wraiths.

This is my TAC.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 DragonRider wrote:
I need a TAC list so do you guys think 5 Destroyers, 3 Heavy Destroyers, and 6 Wraiths (3 with Whip Coils) will do the trick for my FA slot?

What point value are you playing at?

1750