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syypher wrote:
What do you guys do vs 5+ Flyers?

Aegis Defense Line

another question for wolfers

how do we get around purgation squad spams? I have an opponent I often face who bring 2 full units of (i think) 5-man purgation squads with psycannons and sit and camp (CS 1.6-style). I cant move in to grab center position with those guys shooting at me.

My three cents (been a while since I been on, so I threw in an extra penny):

Rhinos are not bad, even with death by glance now possible. I'd use them for what they were meant to be, transport. If I can gun a unit of GH 18 in up, that's three turns of regular movement they've not had to take part of. Additionally, the drive and spray option, or the jump out and rapid fire is still a very viable action, especially with countercharge.
Losing the assault out of the vehicle is unfortunate, but not game ending in my opinion... we have counter charge, AND overwatch now.

That to me, leaves the first turn rhino death problem... well... dozer blade them and hide them in cover. With the new cover rules, 25% obscured means you get a save, no? If the vehicle immobilizes, it becomes a stormbolter turret with a 1/6 chance of moving again per turn, and with the blades, your chances of having that 1 pop up are lessened. I'd rather chance the immobilization than give up the free kill point due to a lack of cover save.

Re drop pods. I use seven in some games.... but purely to drop all that is unholy and unpleasant into my opponents backside. Grey hunters with rune priests, melta, or double melta grey hunters are my go to's with pods. If I'm feeling saucy or did not want to pack so many models, dropping 5 man units of wolf guard termies or 4 man units with logan, njal, or arjack is also a popular choice, especially with combiweapons. I find this to be really useful against parking lot armies, and cover camping armies like eldar/guard/tau.

Re the new chaos dinobots:

The gunbot - longfangs from far, or failing that, drop pod grey hunters. If you can manage to off the three cannon monster with a 220 pt unit of hunters and maybe have them last one more turn before they are offed, as far as i am concerned they earned their keep.

the mauler fiend: lone wolves in terminator armor w/ chain fist and combimelta. I have had good luck with one of these guys (I call him loki) against battle wagons, stopped it dead in its tracks, held a carnifex long enough to allow the rest of my army to face and fire the thing to death, and really believe that the maulerfiend would have similar difficulties dealing.

with all the fliers out there, I suggest either taking allies (guard vendettas are my choice) or an aegis defense line quad or icarus (I'd suggest icarus) manned by a character. Stock options I go with longfangs and just saturate the hell out of the unit with high strength fire and hope for the best. Failing that, I'd say trying a rifledread, or getting some friends with stormtalons.

I'm a fan of the idea that the quicker we get our hands on the other guy, the less likely he is able to use heavy guns to hurt our units... especially units that can be engaged in combat, even if you lose the attacking unit in the end, you managed to stop it from shooting you for however long you kept em in combat.

My last point is specific to apoc... don't discount the usefulness of skyclaws, swiftclaws, or a bucketload of bloodclaws in a crusader and attached to a wolfpriest, especially if you hide a power fist and meltabomb or meltagun in the unit. They may have a lower BS/WS, but at high points games, the loss of 500 pts of them to cause havok in the opponents backfield, or kill of superheavies, is priceless.

 derpyhooves72 wrote:

syypher wrote:
What do you guys do vs 5+ Flyers?

Aegis Defense Line

Not much you can do. 5+ is a lot even for a quad gun. Just play the mission and use your positioning well.

Why not tryout an all out drop pod list? this could help you against flyers, simply because you are going to on their side of the deployment field. Plus you are covering the field with troops and vehicle, which made flyer harder to move into position.

 mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:
Why not tryout an all out drop pod list? this could help you against flyers, simply because you are going to on their side of the deployment field. Plus you are covering the field with troops and vehicle, which made flyer harder to move into position.

that is a good way to solve it. you will also get the advantage of a great alpha-strike at an already weaken army (since he spends points on flyers).

What Ive heard, and recognize without ever have tried it myself. is that drop podding is dangerous for most part since your army will be dispatched in parts and cannot rely on the synergy which is space wolves core.

Rhino's In my opinion are very bad, no more assaulting out, if your shaken or stunned then guranteed next shooting phase of yours that the passengers cant do jack, no assaulting, and the shaken penalty applies to them even if they do disembark so no shooting., really, I personally think they are somewhat of a death trap, because they can be stalled so easily.

As an advid Rhino user, I find them not to be so bad. they really help transport the troops around and act as a buffer against things that would kill me guys in one turn. Are SW's rhinos different?

I feel like Rhinos are a bit of both. Awesome because instead of losing a few guys you lose the Rhino. If it survives it's gravy on top because now you got some speed. If it doesn't survive then you at least protected your guys turn 1-2 for a bit.

ANY half decent army can take out your Rhinos if they really want to turn 1. You have 4 or 5 or them? You'll lose 3+ of them if your opponent really wants you on foot. Think about your own army list and do the Math Hammer, it's not that hard if you want to ignore the rest of the army and take out their army to ground their guys.

The real question is if you take lets say 3 or 4 or 5+ Rhinos/even RBs can fall under this category...would it be better to save that 140+ points and just take another squad of GH's or more threats? That's the REAL question. Do the other things in your army warrant your opponent ignoring it because your Rhinos/RBs and guys inside are threatening enough to want to shoot them? Do you have no mobility in the rest of your army that making your guys walk will cripply you that badly? What units in your army would cause your opponent to disregard the Rhinos completely because they are priority #1? (Typhoon Speeders IMO fall into this category)

Of course also taking into the fact all the other things everyone else said with how stunning a Rhino/RB will also stun the guys inside etc.

 mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:
Why not tryout an all out drop pod list? this could help you against flyers, simply because you are going to on their side of the deployment field. Plus you are covering the field with troops and vehicle, which made flyer harder to move into position.

I had an opponent do this to me. My answer: deep strike the fliers. Yeah my rear armor was facing the LFs, but they still have to roll a 6 to hit. The tactic sounds better than it is. In all honesty, there's just not a lot you can do against multiple fliers as SW other than abuse cover and go on the offensive.

syypher wrote:
I feel like Rhinos are a bit of both. Awesome because instead of losing a few guys you lose the Rhino. If it survives it's gravy on top because now you got some speed. If it doesn't survive then you at least protected your guys turn 1-2 for a bit.

ANY half decent army can take out your Rhinos if they really want to turn 1. You have 4 or 5 or them? You'll lose 3+ of them if your opponent really wants you on foot. Think about your own army list and do the Math Hammer, it's not that hard if you want to ignore the rest of the army and take out their army to ground their guys.

The real question is if you take lets say 3 or 4 or 5+ Rhinos/even RBs can fall under this category...would it be better to save that 140+ points and just take another squad of GH's or more threats? That's the REAL question. Do the other things in your army warrant your opponent ignoring it because your Rhinos/RBs and guys inside are threatening enough to want to shoot them? Do you have no mobility in the rest of your army that making your guys walk will cripply you that badly? What units in your army would cause your opponent to disregard the Rhinos completely because they are priority #1? (Typhoon Speeders IMO fall into this category)

Of course also taking into the fact all the other things everyone else said with how stunning a Rhino/RB will also stun the guys inside etc.

An important drawback with rhino/razor transports is that you cannot have the o so wonderfull wolf guard terminator to lead them. It is really awsome treat for space wolves that our troop sergant can wear a freaking terminator armour. He will still die to massed fire or low ap fire that would else have aimed for viechles but If you get these badass units in to close combat they are a serious pain to regular troop units.

have people tried 5 man GH squads with wolf guard terminator foot-slogging? just swarming the table with these, and also put 3+ drop pods with them, that would make for some good cheap objective grabbing right?

Why just 5 man squads? You can easily fill the 6 slots this way with 10 man units, unless you are looking to do some double FOC shenanigans.

What is the general consensus for gearing Wolf Guard Terminators? What combination of Combi-Weapons, Power Weapons, Thunder Hammers, or Wolf Claws would be optimal on a 4-5 man squad in a drop pod? Should the Wolf Claws always be taken in pairs, if at all?


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Any comments or criticisms?

I'm currently thinking about something like this for a Wolf Guard Pack

1 Wolf Guard Pack
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Combi-Plas, P-Fist)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Combi-Plas, P-Fist)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Wolf Claw x2)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Wolf Claw x2)

Are the claws worth it? Should the P-Fist be something else? How about Shield+Hammer? Thoughts please?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/19 06:30:28

I currently use:

Wolf Lord, TDA, Hammer, combi-plasma
TDA, melta, chainfist,
TDA melta,sword
TDA, plasma, sword
TDA flamer, fist.

I had actually build them for the 3rd ed codex and I didn't want to change them. They are still the old metal ones, not easy to get replacement parts

I think everyone should have a combi-weapon as all they can do is shoot the turn they drop pod. IMHO the shield is too expensive as I tend to lose them more to failed 2+ than to failed 5++ but YMMV

kaoticfry wrote:


1 Wolf Guard Pack
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Combi-Plas, P-Fist)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Combi-Plas, P-Fist)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Wolf Claw x2)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Wolf Claw x2)

Are the claws worth it? Should the P-Fist be something else? How about Shield+Hammer? Thoughts please?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/19 06:30:28

double wolf claws are not worth it anymore since it is the same price as WC+PF and you get +1 attack for wielding two special weapons. so same price same amount of attacks but a choice if you want I4S 4A P3 or I1 S8 AP2. However I dont know if the PF+WC combo is good due to lack of shooting ability. I would put such wolf guards to lead 15man blood claws (since their job is assault based) but for GH im more into combi-plasma + WC for cheapness. they kill marines and less armoured units and then you stay the hell away from other terminator units (let your own terminators or TWC take care of these)

kaoticfry wrote:
What is the general consensus for gearing Wolf Guard Terminators? What combination of Combi-Weapons, Power Weapons, Thunder Hammers, or Wolf Claws would be optimal on a 4-5 man squad in a drop pod? Should the Wolf Claws always be taken in pairs, if at all?

I think this is missing the niche that wolf guard can supply. As a previous poster pointed out you can have a terminator lead a squad to stop your squad getting shot up so easily. Coupled with drop pods this really increases the effectiveness of a unit lead by a character more than able to hold his own in most challenges.

You can also use a small squad for suicide melta. Coming down on turn one with 5 combi meltas can take out a major threat very quickly. Compare this to other suicide melta eg storm troopers. You get 3 more melta shots, more accurate deep striking for 35 points more. This doesn't take into account 3+ armour or increased toughness. I chose stormies as its the only one I'm very familiar with.

I'm not a fan of wg terminators as a unit they just seem too expensive for their task. Especially as you have to pay extra to deep strike only 5 of them compared to their vanilla counterparts.

If their job is to catch the fire that your FOOTSLOGGING GH would otherwise take shouldnt you just keep them cheap?

syypher wrote:
If their job is to catch the fire that your FOOTSLOGGING GH would otherwise take shouldnt you just keep them cheap?

Pure or with a Combi weapon only is cheap

I think Combi + wc actually is cheap given what it gives your troop it often takes quite much to kill them and then he has his claw to tear other troop choices to pieces with.

What points level would you want to fit a well built squad of WolfGuard TERMIES (combi-on everything, with wolf claws or power fists) in a drop pod. I think it needs about 1500 points per game to the best out of the investment. However, once the squad is on the table via pod, it will almost assuredly destroy its target, and remain to cause hell amongst the left over enemy. Throw in a SS and it could be bad.

What loadouts would you guys suggest for WG terminators leading footslogging GH's without using combi weapons? I just bought the 5 man WG terminator box and just plan to use the weapons that come with the kit.

I usually run wg with combi plas if they join plas pack melta for melta pack cml for lfp and pa and pm on em or even pw. don't pay points for a pf.

I just outflank WGT with an SS or two leading the charge. Mix of weapons, rocks in melee, shoots hard, is tough to kill, outflanks with rerolls to choose which side.

How do people think about wolf scouts with snipers?

what about the combo of 4 snipers + 1 sniper with a melta as secondary weapon? if you check codex its fully legal.

now you have BS4 snipers in your cheap melta-squad which can either infiltrate to a strategic position firing at deamons and monsters or HQs or go behind enemy lines in an alpha strike but with the potential of go in from a far if no opportunity arises.

I would rather Plasma scouts to be honest.

Strength 7 is more than enough against the rear armour of 90% of vehicles in the game and 2 shots is better than 1.

Being able to kill off heavy infantry and Monsterous Creatures easily is a nice plus

Grey Hunters: Good in Rhinos. I run double weapons as needed for list comp, Wolf Standard, and Mark. This squad is can lay down some hurt in both shooting and CC. I tried the footsloggin with WG in termie armor and find that the lack of mobility killed my late game.

Land Speeders: I usually run MM/HF, I find that these tend to mess with my opponents target priority. If they shoot the Land speeder, your rhinos advance up the board, if they shoot the rhinos, you melta/flamer key targets in the enemies army.

Thunderwolf Calv: These Guys are expensive. A lord or battle leader with rune armor is almost required. But if you take a squad of these, It is almost guaranteed that your opponent will shoot them over your grey hunters. Think of them more as a delivery device for the lord on thunderwolf.

Dreadnoughts: In pods they provide good diversion, but will likely eat melta-guns, that couldn't reach your rhino's anyhow. Walking they can be good counter assault or baby-sitter for long fangs.

Long Fangs: Missile fangs are still ridiculously cheap, you won't be split firing as much anymore with the new glancing rules. Plasma cannon fangs will vaporize any infantry in the open. Really good if you twin-link them a rune priest. If you have master of the Runes and manage to get both perfect timing and prescience, you will rape anything within 36" of your position.

Other HS: Hard to take them when Long Fangs are so good. Vindi's are Decent and can be well supported by GH in rhinos.

Land Raider: I have a hard time taking LR in a Wolf List. The main point of a LR is to get a super killy unit like Hammernators into assault. Space wolves pay more than 60 points a model for hammernators. This is just too inefficient.

Lone Wolf- a Chainfist/Storm Shield one will provide good babysitting for fangs and can wreak havoc on enemy forces. If you have an empty rhino, you can get him up the field a little faster. Otherwise they are slow.

Thunderwolf cavalry can also work as cheap (no upgrade) counterunit between your hunters and your fangs (making shure what gets assaulted first dont need to fight it alone), fenrisian wolves also fill this task good, but with less power. Thunderwolves can also be used as quick lone wolves in pack of one with a PF and a storm shield, run them in pairs the same way as lone wolves.

Land raiders could still be good, bringing more las to the army or a way to field 4 PW+SB WG with a wolf priest, possibly by outflanking even. or a way to get a full size of Blood claws with/without lucas into the battle.

 Thaylen wrote:
Grey Hunters: Good in Rhinos. I run double weapons as needed for list comp, Wolf Standard, and Mark. This squad is can lay down some hurt in both shooting and CC. I tried the footsloggin with WG in termie armor and find that the lack of mobility killed my late game.

Land Speeders: I usually run MM/HF, I find that these tend to mess with my opponents target priority. If they shoot the Land speeder, your rhinos advance up the board, if they shoot the rhinos, you melta/flamer key targets in the enemies army.

Thunderwolf Calv: These Guys are expensive. A lord or battle leader with rune armor is almost required. But if you take a squad of these, It is almost guaranteed that your opponent will shoot them over your grey hunters. Think of them more as a delivery device for the lord on thunderwolf.

Dreadnoughts: In pods they provide good diversion, but will likely eat melta-guns, that couldn't reach your rhino's anyhow. Walking they can be good counter assault or baby-sitter for long fangs.

Long Fangs: Missile fangs are still ridiculously cheap, you won't be split firing as much anymore with the new glancing rules. Plasma cannon fangs will vaporize any infantry in the open. Really good if you twin-link them a rune priest. If you have master of the Runes and manage to get both perfect timing and prescience, you will rape anything within 36" of your position.

Other HS: Hard to take them when Long Fangs are so good. Vindi's are Decent and can be well supported by GH in rhinos.

Land Raider: I have a hard time taking LR in a Wolf List. The main point of a LR is to get a super killy unit like Hammernators into assault. Space wolves pay more than 60 points a model for hammernators. This is just too inefficient.

Lone Wolf- a Chainfist/Storm Shield one will provide good babysitting for fangs and can wreak havoc on enemy forces. If you have an empty rhino, you can get him up the field a little faster. Otherwise they are slow.

Twin linking the plasma cannons? Still new to SW coming from CSM (curse the new codex!) so I am definately trying to figure out how to work this army.

Rune Priests have access to divination. The primaris power is prescience, which makes a units shooting twin-linked. It allows you to Reroll both scatter and gets hot rolls on plasma cannons.

Nice! I am loving the SW and I haven't I'm still building them... Do you run Rune Priests in terminator armor? I am working on building an army and am wanting to be somewhat "on the mark" with my first build. I already have a skyshield landing pad ordered for the long fangs (and my ork lootas).

SlyasR wrote:
How do people think about wolf scouts with snipers?

what about the combo of 4 snipers + 1 sniper with a melta as secondary weapon? if you check codex its fully legal.

now you have BS4 snipers in your cheap melta-squad which can either infiltrate to a strategic position firing at deamons and monsters or HQs or go behind enemy lines in an alpha strike but with the potential of go in from a far if no opportunity arises.

This is something I have wanted to try (if you're arming with snipers then you can also take boltguns rather than bolt pistols, in case you decide to OBEL).

While not a particularly powerful unit, it seems incredibly flexible.

Compared to Vanilla scouts though I'm hesitant to field them. Hitting on 6s for precision is what you really want out of Sniper Rifles and vanilla scouts do that cheaper AND while scoring. I think you have to really consider OBEL as a possibility despite arming them sniper rifles for wolf scouts to really be worth their weight. It's a tough call. It also might be worth it to go flamer rather than meltagun and treat the unit exclusively as an anti-infantry unit due to the rules changes. Will have to work them in at some point to see how it goes.


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strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
Nice! I am loving the SW and I haven't I'm still building them... Do you run Rune Priests in terminator armor? I am working on building an army and am wanting to be somewhat "on the mark" with my first build. I already have a skyshield landing pad ordered for the long fangs (and my ork lootas).

I think Rune Priests in Terminator Armor would work good with a unit of Terminator Wolf Guard... otherwise just give them Runic Armor and keep the +1A for RW/BP.

As general Wolf advice you'd hear from any Wolf player, Grey Hunters are the bread and butter of Space Wolves. You can get away with not fielding Long Fangs despite how awesome they are... but if you skimp on Grey Hunters it'll hurt.