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madtankbloke wrote:
I wouldn't go so far as to say it was hate, in so far as its not in keeping with the grimdark setting. I mean, space marines, arguably the best equipped force in the entire imperium think its a really good idea to wear robes, and have candles, and scrolls and purity seals on their armour. i mean, really?

Actually, fluff-wise, the AdMech technically have the best-equipped force, right up all the way to Titans, since they hoard all the STC knowledge AND are still considered a sovereign entity in the Imperium. Although, they still wear robes and wave incense burners around too...

I have collected 40k minis since damn near the beginning but oh gawd I wanted some that look like Blanches or Jes Godwins early concepts and art work. Techno Gothic!

I don't think there hate for futuristic looking IG but I prefer Valahllans and Mordians, probably for the nostalgia.

Am I the only one who finds Victorian-era models easier to believe than "futuristic" ones? I find they breach my willing suspension of disbelief.

I'm going to have to agree with K_K's assessment. The big thing that separates Sci-Fi genres like Alien, Star Wars (at least the original trilogy), or 40k are the minimalist approach when it comes to their aesthetic. A lot of the 40k aesthetic has grounding in historical precedence and allows for a gritty, dark, and easy to picture universe since most of the stuff it's based on already exists or had existed. The templates for most of the themes in 40k actually exist and are therefore easier to picture. We see this most frequently with the Imperial Guard with the tanks, flyers, and various groups such as the Vostroyans, Tallarn, and Catachans. Guys in brightly colored spandex or covered in chrome just don't fit in the 40k universe because it breaks the suspension of disbelief and goes into the realm of "okay this is just silly". That kind of Sci-Fi works for some series like Star Trek, but it just doesn't have a place in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium.

One reason I think the Imperial Guard look anachronistic is they're supposed to look cheap.

I actually love the look of thins like the LRBT and Cadian infantry - bare-bones no-nonsense designs.

I feel like Halo is a perfect counterexample - the Spartan project was all about making elite soldiers and cost the UNSC uncountable dollars I'm sure.

Imagine how many more soldiers, tanks, and ships the UNSC would have had if they had spend that money on conventional recruitment and colonization and industry, which would actually make sense.

anyways, rant off.

The IG are supposed to be cheap and individually expendable. I think the look they have portrays that perfectly.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The IG are supposed to be cheap and individually expendable. I think the look they have portrays that perfectly.

False. it depends entirely on the planet of their founding. Some planets found regiments known for having bare bones equipment and treating men like meat for the grinder. Some produce well equipped, highly trained specialist troops whose commanders treat them like, you know, well equipped, highly trained specialist troops.

That's the beauty of the Guard. Whatever does it for you, is fine. If you want nameless, faceless masses of infantry cannon fodder, go for it. If you want tech Guard with plasma weapons and all the best the Mechanicus can offer, go for it. if you want more elite spec ops type Guardsmen, where a few will change the course of the battle, go for it.

Pigeonholing Guard into 'masses of poorly equipped cannon fodder' entirely misses the point of the army.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The IG are supposed to be cheap and individually expendable. I think the look they have portrays that perfectly.

False. it depends entirely on the planet of their founding. Some planets found regiments known for having bare bones equipment and treating men like meat for the grinder. Some produce well equipped, highly trained specialist troops whose commanders treat them like, you know, well equipped, highly trained specialist troops.

That's the beauty of the Guard. Whatever does it for you, is fine. If you want nameless, faceless masses of infantry cannon fodder, go for it. If you want tech Guard with plasma weapons and all the best the Mechanicus can offer, go for it. if you want more elite spec ops type Guardsmen, where a few will change the course of the battle, go for it.

Pigeonholing Guard into 'masses of poorly equipped cannon fodder' entirely misses the point of the army.

Indeed, that's the whole point of Elysians; they're the perfect counterpoint to the "stereotypical" guard of, say, Krieg.

They're a small, airmobile force with the best gear money can buy. Rather than pounding away with brute force with nameless hordes, where losing a million men is considered "acceptable losses," they use precision warfare, lots of special weapons, unique, airdropped vehicles and close co-ordination with Navy support.

I for one, however, hope that they axe the stupid Catachan plastic line, and replace it with something more interesting. I can't imagine they sell very well, so give us something without bulging, tumorous muscles and wife-beater vests. Heck, I'd be happy with them re-doing some of the old metal lines; bring Mordians, Armageddon, Valhallans or Tallarn up to a modern quality level in plastic, or do something new entirely.

I'd say that there is still a certain "style" that goes along with the Guard, and that it is possible to loot "out of place" in a setting like 40k. As madtankbloke and Enigwolf wrote, even the best-trained and best-equipped troops in the Imperium - Space Marines, Battle Sisters, Skitarii, Storm Troopers - still have a look that, depending on the specific faction in question, is situated somewhere between gothic and retro.

GW's own take on the Elysians looks a bit different to Forgeworld's interpretation, too. Just look at the images here: http://web.archive.org/web/20040705053654/http://www.armageddon3.com/English/Campaign/Troops/elysian_drop.html

As for "elite spec ops" Guard where "few will change the course of the battle", I'd say that this is already beyond the scope of individual regiments, concerning Storm Troopers and Grenadier units. The only thing that could come remotely close to being an entire army of "spec ops" are Cadian Shock Troops, and even there I'm not sure whether I would agree with the term.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
I for one, however, hope that they axe the stupid Catachan plastic line, and replace it with something more interesting. I can't imagine they sell very well, so give us something without bulging, tumorous muscles and wife-beater vests. Heck, I'd be happy with them re-doing some of the old metal lines; bring Mordians, Armageddon, Valhallans or Tallarn up to a modern quality level in plastic, or do something new entirely.

... why axe them? They're made. Cutting them simply means less money being made. Since they're plastic, and they're old, they don't have to sell particularly well. Their molds are well and truly paid for, and being plastic it's ridiculously cheap to produce them. So any sales from them is pure money.

They don't have to cut the Catachan line to make a new range of plastics - they just need to have the money floating around to dedicate to another entire plastic line.

However, I think our best bet for new IG regiments is still Forgeworld. I'm still waiting for the day they decide to fill out the options for the Tallarn. I might then start a Guard army.


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 Lynata wrote:
As for "elite spec ops" Guard where "few will change the course of the battle", I'd say that this is already beyond the scope of individual regiments, concerning Storm Troopers and Grenadier units. The only thing that could come remotely close to being an entire army of "spec ops" are Cadian Shock Troops, and even there I'm not sure whether I would agree with the term.

Armies comprised of veterans. It's already done in the codex. Small, well equipped squads. I meant spec ops as in 'better trained than usual'. I'm aware there's things like Storm Troopers.

Also, depending on how you like your fluff, a spec ops regiment has been covered - the Tanith. Catachan also fall under that category, they are, after all, specialist jungle fighters, not line troops.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
It really doesn't matter what the sculptors are tired of or not, lol. Like GW, Forge World makes the most of what sells. And the Spess Mahreens continue to sell a bajillion models.

I don't know exactly how they decide what projects to work on these days, but I know that previously they've only worked on projects they personally want to work on. That's why there's so many IG variants, and ridiculous things like the Manta and the Fortress.

...When was there hate for 'futuristic'-looking Guard? So long as they don't look like they belong in Starfleet I have no problem with them...

madtankbloke wrote:
The one race that goes for a futuretech feel to its miniatures is the Tau, and quite few people think its totally against the grimdark setting, where everyone has to have spikes, and scrolls and candles and chants hymns as they go to battle, and think their weapon has a soul that they need to keep happy in order to work.

Eldar have a few futuristic-looking models. Guardians and Dire Avengers have vanes and shoulder-mounted targetting matrices.
The armour is just panels over skin-tight suits, though. They do hark back to an 80's spandex style.
They don't have many others, but there are a few there.

its not so much the "look" that people dislike with future/modern guard. cadians, elysians look good for anything from ww2 onwards. cadian kasrkin are simply awesome and fairly mordernesque.that said, the future-esque look belongs to the tau.

but bear in mind, the guard uses the attritional tactics of ww1 like they were going out of fashion. modern guard generally look mordern, but will be thrown into the meatgrinder and shredded like anything else. thats the Imperial Guard. for every general who wants to use "tactics", there are dozens that solve the very same problem by the tried and trusted method of "lets throw more men at it, until the problem goes away". Look modern all you want, but you need to keep the character of the guard in the filth, blood and mud of the flanders trenches.

Have to say i don't like the Mantic ones that seem to be so popular, I think they are actually quite ugly.

And I dont like the blocky Elysians either!

Half the problem with the IG isnt the troopers, its the vehicles which all seem to take inspiration from different periods (Russ is a WW1 Mk IV with a modern turret, Chimera is similar to a WW2 Matilda, Valkrye is a weird hybrid of the Mil-24 Hind and a jet).

You would need to do more than just get more modern looking troopers to update the IG!

I personally plan on using some of the models from the DreamForge games KS to supplement my IG forces. They'll look very different than my current models, but I like the way they look...

Ross74H wrote:
Have to say i don't like the Mantic ones that seem to be so popular, I think they are actually quite ugly.

And I dont like the blocky Elysians either!

Half the problem with the IG isnt the troopers, its the vehicles which all seem to take inspiration from different periods (Russ is a WW1 Mk IV with a modern turret, Chimera is similar to a WW2 Matilda, Valkrye is a weird hybrid of the Mil-24 Hind and a jet).

You would need to do more than just get more modern looking troopers to update the IG!

Mantic's Corporation troopers are not as clean-cut futuristic as it might seem at first glance. Their armour looks like studded leather and there are nuts and bolts and rivets everywhere. While this makes them a nice proxy for GW's Guard, a friend is using them for his Tomorrow's War force and had to file all those little gothic details in order to achieve the "near future" looks he was aiming for.

Their Enforcers, on the other side, look like something out of Mass Effect. I love them and I've considered getting a few of them, but they are slightly pricey for Mantic standards.

As for the vehicles... That's right. Save for the Valk, which IMHO looks good just everywhere, they don't even stack well with some current IG lines (Catachans, namely!). If I was aiming for a near future Guard army, I'd be tempted to get some Russ or Chimera replacements from other companies. Just be warned, GW vehicles are massively out of scale. Antenocitis' awesome range of vehicles, for example, are all Russ-sized and larger.

My issue with the Mantic Corp troops is they're all wearing skinny jeans.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

Their Enforcers, on the other side, look like something out of Mass Effect. I love them and I've considered getting a few of them, but they are slightly pricey for Mantic standards.

Their Enforcers look amazing! But, keep in mind, they are likely the worst infantry build I have ever had to do. I don't know exactly what made them so difficult, but they just wouldn't go together right. A lot of the barrels were warped, and while they come with some special weapons they dont come with hands to use with them so....some work is needed...once they are done though, they look great!

PresidentOfAsia wrote:
Apologise for bringing up such a necro thread but I had to add this

The conceptart for Elysian Carapace armor from forge world



from http://natfka.blogspot.com/2011/08/elysian-veterans-in-carapace-armour.html

I hope Forge World works on that b/c I'm sick and tired of more Pre Heresy marines

It definitely looks like something from Halo or the same ilk

About time someone ripped off Halo but ditched that silly baseball cap type eyeshade on the helmet, was very off puting for me. They in FW have great taste for sf.

I can't wait for the next round of Elysian releases. There's a whole separate rumor mill building for them, but alas, few people care about Elysians. :(

 Enigwolf wrote:
I can't wait for the next round of Elysian releases. There's a whole separate rumor mill building for them, but alas, few people care about Elysians. :(

Plenty of people care about Elysians.

What the "rumor mill" does not seem to realize is that those sketches were for Imperial Armour Volume 8: the Raid on Kastorel-Novem. Intended to be a three part series, it was cut down to one book.

The "Carapace Armored Elysians" have effectively been put on the backburner until Elysians are going to feature in another book. There were rumors of them coming with Imperial Armour 11: the Doom of Myrmea, but those ended up being false.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:
I can't wait for the next round of Elysian releases. There's a whole separate rumor mill building for them, but alas, few people care about Elysians. :(

Plenty of people care about Elysians.

What the "rumor mill" does not seem to realize is that those sketches were for Imperial Armour Volume 8: the Raid on Kastorel-Novem. Intended to be a three part series, it was cut down to one book.

The "Carapace Armored Elysians" have effectively been put on the backburner until Elysians are going to feature in another book. There were rumors of them coming with Imperial Armour 11: the Doom of Myrmea, but those ended up being false.

Many people, myself included, have emailed or otherwise asked Forge World if Elysians are going to be updated with the advent of 6th Ed. For the past few months, their answer to all of us has been the same - they're working on something big for it soon which will make them relevant to 6th ed again. One can hope, right?

You're asking them--or at least to Forge World it seems that way-- if the rules are going to be updated, not if there are more models.

Forge World has no qualms with releasing PDF updates to their book army lists.

That is, at best, what you should be expecting to see.

Sad to announce it to you, but they're not getting in IA 12, if that is what you're hoping for, its the Death Korps.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Sad to announce it to you, but they're not getting in IA 12, if that is what you're hoping for, its the Death Korps.

Yeah, and Necrons too, if their Facebook cover for Christmas was anything to go by.

We can hope for IA 13 though, right?

I heard its Dark Eldar jumping in the mix, as well as SM.

 Bobthehero wrote:
I heard its Dark Eldar jumping in the mix, as well as SM.

We should start a Forge World rumors thread.

 Bobthehero wrote:
I heard its Dark Eldar jumping in the mix, as well as SM.

You're hearing that wrong then.

Imperial Armour 12 is a focus on the Minotaurs Chapter fighting an emergent Tomb World. The Death Korps are going to play secondstring to the Minotaurs.

The Dark Eldar are purported to be part of the subsequent book, where they begin to raid the sector at large. IA12 is not to be a "single world in peril" but an entire sector.

That is what is coming in IA 12, I though the IG was the main feature, pretty much like the Siege of Vraks, and the Marines would be there as support, taking a bigger role as the story goes forward, but I was wrong, oh well, at least the DKoK gets updated, so all is good.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
I heard its Dark Eldar jumping in the mix, as well as SM.

You're hearing that wrong then.

Imperial Armour 12 is a focus on the Minotaurs Chapter fighting an emergent Tomb World. The Death Korps are going to play secondstring to the Minotaurs.

The Dark Eldar are purported to be part of the subsequent book, where they begin to raid the sector at large. IA12 is not to be a "single world in peril" but an entire sector.

Any idea if IA12 onwards (for a few books) is going to be something akin to what they did with the multi-part Siege of Vraks or Badab War?


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Bobthehero, where's that from?