Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

One thing that really irks me is when people say that a futuristic Imperial Guard force does not make sense in 40k and that anything that does not look ww1/ww2/steam punk has no place. The thing that gets me is that is they seem to have no knowledge of the Imperium outside of the codices, Dawn of War and 1d4chan. But if they even bothered to look at lexicanium and even the GW/FW sites for 5 minutes, they'll find quite a bit of "futuristic" forces.

The most well known one, The Elysian Drop Troops

House Van Saars


Harakoni Warhawks


Its 100% canon that such kind of forces do in fact exist, why do people just ignore them?

I havent ever seen a hate for futuristic force for IG :0, does it realy happen often ?
I would realy like a high tech IG force, with a few power armor guardsmen :0 I wants !

I don't like the look of the Elysian but not since he all high tech, just don't like the look myself :p

Yeah, I can't say that I've come across the 'hate' that you're referring to.

Part of the awesomness of the setting is that anything goes... and that applies even moreso for Imperial Guard, given the sheer variety of different regiment types outlined in the background.

I actually love futuristic looking guard, as long as its not overly ridiculous.

In fact, if I ever collected guard, I'd try to make them Harakoni Warhawks just for the looks and modelling opportunities.

Never seen hate for them either, myself. Only thing I can think of is that people like the WWI/WWII aesthetic a lot? I know a couple people who chose IG because of that reason alone.

PresidentOfAsia wrote:

Its 100% canon that such kind of forces do in fact exist, why do people just ignore them?

Well of the 3 only the Estonian Drop troops (who always looked a bit WWII bomber crew to me) have models in production. And they cost more than my car. Van Saars will take forever to do as an IG force (I know, I just did a cawdor/redemtionist IG force) since the Necro models were not really made for IG. And the Warhawks never got models.

Most people aren't looking to kitbash or sculpt IG so they go with what they can get.

Besides 'futuristic' is a slippery term.

Part of the reason for 40k, Aliens and Star Wars succeeding is that they went for gritty, grounded looks when 'futuristic' meant spandex and chrome.







While the Mordians might be a bit too historical



They have a context and a feel to them that say these guys don't.

Plus, cadians are also rather futuristic looking as well. Look at the neat, crisp angles on the lascannon and lasgun, for example. Plus, I dont' think you can look at a cadian stormtrooper without seeing the futuristic look:



The old guard vehicles may all look old-tymie, and most of the old metal ranges do as well, but their newer stuff has moved cadians in specific into a sleeker, more futuristic direction.

I mean...



... hardly looks WWII era...

Ailaros wrote:I mean... [Valkyrie] ... hardly looks WWII era...

You think?

I actually feel as if GW's designers managed to do quite well in creating something that looks fitting for all eras - and thus all sorts of IG. The Valkyrie combines bits and pieces from a wide range of historical inspirations: the many large bolts and the sturdy canopy are quite close to WW2 style aircraft, whereas the turbines are somewhat resembling of a more modern Cold War-era vehicle. Note that the design is not very sleek, which makes it look almost "steampunk" rather than full-on scifi.

And that is, I think, also how most people feel about the Imperial Guard in general. Whilst I have never actually seen "hate" for futuristic-looking Guard, the Imperium in 40k has a certain "retro" style, combining classical elements of science-fiction with a gothic flair. So yes, I would actually say that something "too modern" would look out of place there. The Elysians are close to leaving my personal comfort zone, but the blocky design of their armour and the visible tubes still make them look more like something out of a Flash Gordon episode (the old one, not the fake remake) and thus they still fit into the world. Van Saar on the other hand look like they would fit in better with Shadowrun rather than 40k, but I have a feeling that a different paintjob could potentially alleviate this perception.

Just my two shells, mind ya.

Well, and the real trick with guard is that they started out with what people in the 1980's thought that the far future would look like.

This is pretty common in science fiction settings. While GW projected glam rock and gothic metal into the far future, people in the past had their own version. I mean, in the really old sci-fi movies, people wore adrian helmets while pointing ray-guns at people.

In any case, I'm not against more modern stuff, but I would get a little disgruntled by stuff that looked too realistic. I mean, it's a fantasy environment, after all. I shouldn't see something that looks like I could go somewhere and find it in the real world here and now. 40k has a certain stylized motif that ought to be kept.

 Ailaros wrote:
Well, and the real trick with guard is that they started out with what people in the 1980's thought that the far future would look like.

This is pretty common in science fiction settings. While GW projected glam rock and gothic metal into the far future, people in the past had their own version. I mean, in the really old sci-fi movies, people wore adrian helmets while pointing ray-guns at people.

In any case, I'm not against more modern stuff, but I would get a little disgruntled by stuff that looked too realistic. I mean, it's a fantasy environment, after all. I shouldn't see something that looks like I could go somewhere and find it in the real world here and now. 40k has a certain stylized motif that ought to be kept.

so if I did a conversion that resembled this how would that turn out for you


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

PresidentOfAsia wrote:

Its 100% canon that such kind of forces do in fact exist, why do people just ignore them?

Well of the 3 only the Estonian Drop troops (who always looked a bit WWII bomber crew to me) have models in production. And they cost more than my car. Van Saars will take forever to do as an IG force (I know, I just did a cawdor/redemtionist IG force) since the Necro models were not really made for IG. And the Warhawks never got models.

Most people aren't looking to kitbash or sculpt IG so they go with what they can get.

Besides 'futuristic' is a slippery term.

Part of the reason for 40k, Aliens and Star Wars succeeding is that they went for gritty, grounded looks when 'futuristic' meant spandex and chrome.







While the Mordians might be a bit too historical



They have a context and a feel to them that say these guys don't.

Harakoni Warhawks are just armored Cadians


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lynata wrote:

Ailaros wrote:I mean... [Valkyrie] ... hardly looks WWII era...

You think?

I actually feel as if GW's designers managed to do quite well in creating something that looks fitting for all eras - and thus all sorts of IG. The Valkyrie combines bits and pieces from a wide range of historical inspirations: the many large bolts and the sturdy canopy are quite close to WW2 style aircraft, whereas the turbines are somewhat resembling of a more modern Cold War-era vehicle. Note that the design is not very sleek, which makes it look almost "steampunk" rather than full-on scifi.

And that is, I think, also how most people feel about the Imperial Guard in general. Whilst I have never actually seen "hate" for futuristic-looking Guard, the Imperium in 40k has a certain "retro" style, combining classical elements of science-fiction with a gothic flair. So yes, I would actually say that something "too modern" would look out of place there. The Elysians are close to leaving my personal comfort zone, but the blocky design of their armour and the visible tubes still make them look more like something out of a Flash Gordon episode (the old one, not the fake remake) and thus they still fit into the world. Van Saar on the other hand look like they would fit in better with Shadowrun rather than 40k, but I have a feeling that a different paintjob could potentially alleviate this perception.

Just my two shells, mind ya.

Well, I don't see the flash gordoness in them, especially if you look at the vehicles
Also whats wrong with something being different?

PresidentOfAsia wrote:Well, I don't see the flash gordoness in them, especially if you look at the vehicles
Also whats wrong with something being different?

Flash Gordon was just the first name that sprung to mind - there are probably more appropriate examples for what I attempted to convey. In the end, they do not actually "stand out" amongst the rest of the setting, and I think that is important. It's not about being "different" or not, but about how different you can get whilst still sticking to the theme. Certainly, no-one would claim that all the existing regiments - Cadians, Valhallans, Catachans, Steel Legion, Mordians, Attilans etc - do not "look different" from one another?

But if I look at the example image you posted, there's just not much that screams "40k" to me. It looks too much like a modern 21st century soldier. Maybe a Colonial Marine from Aliens. The armour has a certain "Cadian ring" to it, which is fine, but with all the gadgets and added tools it just looks too ... normal. I have seen soldiers that look a little like that in countless other franchises, from Battlefield to Shadowrun to Deus Ex. I just would not think of 40k when looking at him. If you're fine with that ... it's your choice. But personally, I like 40k specifically because it looks so crazy and unique in its blend of sci-fi, gothic and 20th century pop culture elements.

Futuristic is why we play 40k, isn't it?

Elysians looking like Space-Paratroopers is what sold me on the game to begin with.

Oh and all the girls it gets me. That too.

I think out of all the races in 40k (aside from some of the Ork sluggas) IMHO the IG don't look as futuristic as the others, they have modern looking tanks, and they look most like the plastic army men we use to blow up with firecrackers. I think the fact that they look like modern soldiers and blue collar guys is why so many people love using IG.

Gotta agree with most here that I haven't actually seen any hate for it.
That being said, whilst I'm not entirely a fan of futuristic imperial guard, I think one of the joys of Imperial Guard is that a regiment can be whatever you want it to be.
They've given us such a wide range of figures and have even said that you can make your own up. If i wanted a futuristic starship troopers-like army I could get it just as easily as if I wanted a virtually world war 1 imitation force. It is just so open ended.

What I am however against is the push by GW to make Cadians and Catachans THE Imperial guard forces. That however is another story.

Just my 2 cents.

Apologise for bringing up such a necro thread but I had to add this

The conceptart for Elysian Carapace armor from forge world



from http://natfka.blogspot.com/2011/08/elysian-veterans-in-carapace-armour.html

I hope Forge World works on that b/c I'm sick and tired of more Pre Heresy marines

It definitely looks like something from Halo or the same ilk

PresidentOfAsia wrote:

I hope Forge World works on that b/c I'm sick and tired of more Pre Heresy marines

It definitely looks like something from Halo or the same ilk

Amen to that. I'm surprised their sculptors alone aren't sick of making variations of Power Armor (that only existed in drawings and one model for each before) and Terminator Armor (which had only been in drawings too!)...

 Enigwolf wrote:

PresidentOfAsia wrote:

I hope Forge World works on that b/c I'm sick and tired of more Pre Heresy marines

It definitely looks like something from Halo or the same ilk

Amen to that. I'm surprised their sculptors alone aren't sick of making variations of Power Armor (that only existed in drawings and one model for each before) and Terminator Armor (which had only been in drawings too!)...

Mk IV, V, VI, VII and VII have been around as models for ages, it's just that you get bits and pieces of them all over the place. Mk III might even have been in somewhere too, it's just that FW made a kit where you can get all the pieces for a certain mark at once, instead of having to scrounge your bitz box for them.

It really doesn't matter what the sculptors are tired of or not, lol. Like GW, Forge World makes the most of what sells. And the Spess Mahreens continue to sell a bajillion models.

As far as the hate against futuristic looking forces, I have never noticed anything like you describe. 40K has tons of different aesthetics, and no single overriding one. 40K just functions on being derivative so that it can appeal to as wide of a base as possible. While perhaps more slick, polished visions of the future might stick out as out of place in the Imperium, that's about it as far as what might be "too futuristic".

Some IG Concept Art from the upcoming stuff.


I'm privy to the semi-marine futuristic IG myself.

Those are (ancient, IIRC) sketches by Jes Goodwin compiled for the book "The Gothic and the Eldritch", Shadowclaimer.

I'd be happy if those were to inspire future Guard releases, though. I prefer my guard slightly anachronistic.

I'm digging the look of the 9th Necromundian guardsman. They look like a cross between the militaristic, martial style of the Cadians with the Rambo-look of the Catachans (minus the muscle which looks positively unreal sometimes).

Shadowclaimer, I've seen those pics on Faeit 212 myself, but never really looked closer till now. It looks like the sketches were compiled into a book - any idea where it's from? Also, I wonder why Jes Goodwin signed off with "September 1993" on the left page...

Edit: Agent_Tremolo answered my question... lol.

 Enigwolf wrote:
I'm digging the look of the 9th Necromundian guardsman. They look like a cross between the militaristic, martial style of the Cadians with the Rambo-look of the Catachans (minus the muscle which looks positively unreal sometimes).

Shadowclaimer, I've seen those pics on Faeit 212 myself, but never really looked closer till now. It looks like the sketches were compiled into a book - any idea where it's from? Also, I wonder why Jes Goodwin signed off with "September 1993" on the left page...

Edit: Agent_Tremolo answered my question... lol.

Yea I'm a big fan of his art, I love his design of Psykers having to wear a "mark" to designate them as a Psyker. It kinda carries that environment of "hate" for Psykers that the Imperium has.

I like the half-marine Guard personally though, that helmet is just awesome.

Also I totally missed the 1993 on that sketch.. wow those are old..

How about these?



From Faeit at http://natfka.blogspot.sg/2011/08/elysian-veterans-in-carapace-armour.html

I'm sorry but the ones in the OP just look crappy. I don't like most "futuristic" looking guard.

Also bare in mind that when you say "futuristic" what you mean is "heavily clichéd". I'd like 40k to be of a higher quality than a million straight-to-DVD sci-fi films.

Tru Halo-3ish sci-fi armies in the IG dont' get much "hate" , but many probably feel they're out of place because the overall Imperial ascetic doesn't move to that kind of depiction.

I won't say Necromundan Van Saars had an excessively futuristic feel to them. What's futuristic about ponytail-toting bearded machos in skin-tight Fremen stillsuits, after all?

Oh, well. Some of the design choices for Necromunda were just plain bonkers.

I'm currently assembling a small Halo-3ish army right now (mostly made up of heavily converted SM Scouts plus Pig Iron and Puppet's War bits). For Tomorrow's War, that is. May see 40k action as Stormtroopers amongst my fellows' guard armies, but most likely not. They still carry a lot of presently unemployed Karskin over from last edition.

Just as a note, for a simple thing that jacks up the futuristic feel of your army, Pig Iron Productions has a nice line of helmets that fit and look nice for IG. Hell their full infantry could pass for an interesting IG force.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it was hate, in so far as its not in keeping with the grimdark setting. I mean, space marines, arguably the best equipped force in the entire imperium think its a really good idea to wear robes, and have candles, and scrolls and purity seals on their armour. i mean, really?
The one race that goes for a futuretech feel to its miniatures is the Tau, and quite few people think its totally against the grimdark setting, where everyone has to have spikes, and scrolls and candles and chants hymns as they go to battle, and think their weapon has a soul that they need to keep happy in order to work.

Personally i have no problem with futuristic looking forces, be they imperial or otherwise. it would be a refreshing change from the busy tacky looking miniatures that have been released recently (looking at you Chaos and DA)

My favourite miniatures, currently, are the Cadian Stormtroopers, and the FW tau battlesuits. everything else recently are just ludicrous sculpts imo, i say the miniature designers need to go back at least a decade back to the older, cleaner miniatures we used to get

Here's some models for proxy-IG (Mantic's Corporation)

One problem I've had in trying to find IG stand-ins are most of the models tend to be metal.

Mantic seems to be the only one who produces in resin/plastic, and their models look rather sloppy; the proportion seem off, and the armour on their infantry seems misshapen.