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 liturgies of blood wrote:
And along with GW's model it is a sword.

Right, if you run an unconverted model produced by GW. If you scratch built a model, what prevents you from modeling the glaive as an axe?

Good taste.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
And along with GW's model it is a sword.

a lot of models do not come with all their options.

Unless you are saying a Dreadnought can never have two twin linked autocannons...

Yeah but that argument has no baring on this situation. If you had a range of weapons in some Belial-esque character that would be fine but this ins't analogous.

Point being that the only thing that matters is the wargear that is listed in the codex.

and all that is listed for the Sanguinor is a Glaive Encarmine.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Point being that the only thing that matters is the wargear that is listed in the codex.

Exactly so. The Tactical Squad box doesn't come with all the heavy weapons options either, but according to the Codex they can buy other HV than the missile launcher.

Not that I see why anyone would give the Sanguinor an Unweildy axe and have him strike last, but they can. ;-)

We are talking about named characters with no options here, not other stuff. The only named character that I can think of that has an option to upgrade something is koresso karn, who can buy a bike, and all you do is slice his model in half and glue it to legs.

Named characters should always use what it shows they come with, and you blood angel player should really stop crying over this edition change.

"It" (the codex) says he comes with a glaive encarmine.
That weapon has 2 profiles defined.
Why are you denying the ability to use either one?

 juraigamer wrote:
We are talking about named characters with no options here, not other stuff. The only named character that I can think of that has an option to upgrade something is koresso karn, who can buy a bike, and all you do is slice his model in half and glue it to legs.

No, we are talking about a named character that does have options, per FAQ. The codex states he wields a glaive encarmine, which used to be clear enough as there was no distinction between axes, halberds, swords and a curled up newspaper. Now in 6th there's a distinction and loads of weapons needed to be FAQ'd to determine which they were. Per the FAQ the glaive encarmine was ruled to be a sword OR an axe. See the option here?

In what way is it MFA to give a model a piece of wargear that the codex allows it to have?

By saying you can't model anything with something that doesn't come in the box, are you saying I can't have sanguinary guards with 5 axes? or 5 swords? there's only so many of each in one box? How about models that have options that haven't even been released by GW, like the beforementioned TL AC dreadnought? Would be a shame to call that MFA wouldnt it?

Named characters should always use what it shows they come with, and you blood angel player should really stop crying over this edition change.

The codex shows the Sanguinor to wield either an axe or a sword. Clear enough for me?
And please, don't point at Blood Angel players for crying over 6th edition. This is a normal rules discussion, no need to make this personal in any way... Everyone has things they do and thigns they don't like about 6th edition, not only BA players...

In reality it is the same situation as the GK Death Cult assassins that have two power weapons in the codex entry, and people saying they are stuck with power swords because the only GW model that is out there right now has swords.

But wait, If you look at the GW model for Death Cult assassins they do not even have two power swords. One has two non powered swords, the other model has a single power sword.

So can we even use Death Cult assassins since they do not even have the wargear listed in their entry?

 DeathReaper wrote:
In reality it is the same situation as the GK Death Cult assassins that have two power weapons in the codex entry, and people saying they are stuck with power swords because the only GW model that is out there right now has swords.

But wait, If you look at the GW model for Death Cult assassins they do not even have two power swords. One has two non powered swords, the other model has a single power sword.

So can we even use Death Cult assassins since they do not even have the wargear listed in their entry?

Well bugger! I'd better sell all those DCA's then, as they're now illegal to use! [/sarcasm]
I don't get why people don't understand that GW has not and will not release a mini for each codex entry possible... sometimes you will need to convert a model to get the option you want

Gentleman you keep talking about options as if there is one in here. Gw made the model, sanguinor has a sword. Same as calgar etc. If you want to model the guy with an axe thats your choice but where does the option to take either come in?
In every other instance of mfa we say look at the gw model and go by that. Why is this different?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is not dca, they are not a special unique character. The thing about a unique model is that it has one form only. Do I get the option to put an axe on mephiston cos it looks cool when he cuts terminators in two?

The option is in the fact that Glaive Encarmines are either a MC power sword or a PC power axe.

Just like a model with a regular power weapon has the option to have a Sword, Axe, Lance, or Maul.

So yes to axe mephiston?

This is not dca, they are not a special unique character. The thing about a unique model is that it has one form only. Do I get the option to put an axe on mephiston cos it looks cool when he cuts terminators in two?

So my friend has a both a converted Abaddon and Ahriman. Since they're not the specific Abaddon and Ahriman models I can't let him use them since GW has specific models?

As for Mephiston, If his weapon simply reads 'Force Weapon.' Then yeah, you could give him a Force Axe(Not sure why you would though.). If it says Force Sword then he's stuck with a sword.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Gentleman you keep talking about options as if there is one in here. Gw made the model, sanguinor has a sword. Same as calgar etc. If you want to model the guy with an axe thats your choice but where does the option to take either come in?
In every other instance of mfa we say look at the gw model and go by that. Why is this different?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is not dca, they are not a special unique character. The thing about a unique model is that it has one form only. Do I get the option to put an axe on mephiston cos it looks cool when he cuts terminators in two?

The difference with the Calgar model is that Calgar's model represents his codex entry, as there is no choice of weapons.
The difference with Mephiston is that Mephiston has a codex entry reading Force Sword, which is clear as day as it doesn't say 'weapon' instead of 'sword'.
The FAQ states that a Glaive Encarmine is either a Sword or an Axe. The codex gives the Sanguinor a Glaive Encarmine. Thus indirectly the codex allows for the Sanguinor to have an axe instead of a sword. This means that converting the Sanguinor to be wielding an axe is 100% codex legal, and therefor not MFA.

Is it RAW? Absolutely. Does GW intend to give you this choice? It might be an oversight, but right now RAW you're allowed this choice.

Jirin wrote:As for Mephiston, If his weapon simply reads 'Force Weapon.' Then yeah, you could give him a Force Axe(Not sure why you would though.). If it says Force Sword then he's stuck with a sword.

Mephiston lost a lot of fighting power due to being AP3, so personally I'ld love to give him an axe but right now it's not a legal option as the codex gives him a Sword.

If his entry says "Force Weapon" then yes. But if it says Force Sword then he's stuck with that.

Edit: damn Ninjas

Jirin wrote:

This is not dca, they are not a special unique character. The thing about a unique model is that it has one form only. Do I get the option to put an axe on mephiston cos it looks cool when he cuts terminators in two?

So my friend has a both a converted Abaddon and Ahriman. Since they're not the specific Abaddon and Ahriman models I can't let him use them since GW has specific models?

As for Mephiston, If his weapon simply reads 'Force Weapon.' Then yeah, you could give him a Force Axe(Not sure why you would though.). If it says Force Sword then he's stuck with a sword.

No but you play them as the gw models, facetious points are still just that.

Surely buying the sanguinor and modelling him in the first place is MFA? Surely purchasing a power weapon and then modelling my tactical sergeant, from a box which, doesn't come with a power maul then using other parts to give him a power maul is modelling for advantage according to a lot of the "This is MFA!" Points.

So if this if this is the case..... Dante can have a sword?

Lucarikx

Modelling for advantage suggests that you are changing a model because the physical change makes the model better in some way.

Sure it could be argued that the axe is better than the sword but it's subjective. The sword allows him to use his I6 whereas the axe doesn't, so by modelling the axe, you're actually slowing him down.

I believe that you can give him an axe or sword perfectly legally as per GW's rules, and it's the rules that matter above anything else.

 Lucarikx wrote:
So if this if this is the case..... Dante can have a sword?

Lucarikx

No, his rules explicitly state he has an Axe. Unlike the Sanguinor.

My Sanguinor is converted (is a counts as model) and uses an axe. I fail to see how the models that GW sells have any bearing on the rules?

GW is wrong in cailling it a glaive. A glaive is a pole-arm and much more like an axe than a sword anyway.

Irrelevant, GW could call a Dog a Cat in the rules. It would have no bearing on the rules in those instances.


Just like a Nemesis Force Halberd isn't a Force Axe. Its a unique force weapon.

 lunarman wrote:
My Sanguinor is converted (is a counts as model) and uses an axe. I fail to see how the models that GW sells have any bearing on the rules?

Well try to remember that line with people that have 3" tall Tervigons or crouching space marines or scratch build stormravens that don't resemble the box model at all.

 liturgies of blood wrote:

 lunarman wrote:
My Sanguinor is converted (is a counts as model) and uses an axe. I fail to see how the models that GW sells have any bearing on the rules?

Well try to remember that line with people that have 3" tall Tervigons or crouching space marines or scratch build stormravens that don't resemble the box model at all.

That's different. Your example there is modelling for advantage and is unacceptable. Modelling an axe instead of a sword is different, especially since the rules allow the Sanguinor to have either.

I do not buy that in every case a power sword is just as good as an axe. There are plenty of examples off the top of my head where one type of power weapon is so much better than the others.

How is switching a combat monster to be ap2 instead of ap3 not MFA?

Because everything either hits before or at the same time as him...

Yes, he's now AP2 with +1 str, but powerfists can take him out as he takes them out and everything else will just smash him with a good number of hits.

It's a fairly even trade off, you either strike before with less cutting power or strike last with insane cutting power, but in doing so let everything able to try to take you out...

 liturgies of blood wrote:
I do not buy that in every case a power sword is just as good as an axe. There are plenty of examples off the top of my head where one type of power weapon is so much better than the others.

How is switching a combat monster to be ap2 instead of ap3 not MFA?

According to you any upgrade you give any model would then be modelling for advantage? My sergeant could perform loads better with a lightning claw; MFA! Even though its perfectly legal?
Giving a named character a weapon the codex doesn't allow it to have is illegal. but as I've explaned before the rules allow sanguinor to take an axe