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According to the BA codex, The Sanguinor simply has a 'glaive encarmine' as his wargear.

In the BA 6th edition FAQ it states that for the purposes of classification, Sanguinary Guard's weapons are WYSIWYG in terms of determining whether they're carrying a master crafted power sword, or master crafted power ax. These is no point change for sword v. ax.

Given this, could one kit bash a Sanguinor model, changing the sword to an ax giving him a master crafted power ax as his glaive encarmine?

Ask your TO. That is the only answer that can be given, each TO may take a different position on it.

In my mind however this is clearly MFA.

Literally? yes. (as there is nothing in the sanguinor's wargear section to indicate he is carrying a sword specifically).

Wether or not such constitutes 'modelling for advantage'? is a subject i leave to those much more interested in debating such.

As per raw you get to model the glaive however you want according to the brb and then the FAQ supports that

Yes, you can alter the Sanguinor to have an Axe if you want.

For anyone that is claiming it is RAW to model a special character as you want with different wargear from the GW model.. where is it written?

 liturgies of blood wrote:
For anyone that is claiming it is RAW to model a special character as you want.. where is it written?

The same place it is written that you are allowed to assemble, paint and convert your models. Hint: They are all in the same place.

As there are no rules covering how to assemble or convert your own models, it is perfectly legal. Because some models that are legal to field within the rules MUST be converted. For example, there is no Sanguinary Priest in TDA model. So any SP in TDA has to be a converted kitbash.

And you can't say its ok for some models and not others.



So unless a particular model's rules state what weapon exactly it is armed with you are free to model it as you please.

Glaives have been FAQd to be either a MC Sword or MC Axe. The Sanguinor has a Glaive Encarmine, which can be a sword or an axe.

 Grey Templar wrote:
As there are no rules covering how to assemble or convert your own models, it is perfectly legal. Because some models that are legal to field within the rules MUST be converted. For example, there is no Sanguinary Priest in TDA model. So any SP in TDA has to be a converted kitbash.

And you can't say its ok for some models and not others.



So unless a particular model's rules state what weapon exactly it is armed with you are free to model it as you please.

Glaives have been FAQd to be either a MC Sword or MC Axe. The Sanguinor has a Glaive Encarmine, which can be a sword or an axe.

That line of logic falls down when you have models that exist in the GW catalogue. Yes you can say it's ok for some and not for others, the models you need to convert to make such at TDA priests others exist and are special characters. Special characters have set weapons and wargear to go with their rules.

A glaive encarmine can be a sword or an axe, where does it say that you may model it as such? Or in this case re-model it.

Don't get me wrong I love converting models but RAW is not Rules that I want to see.

Technically, Sanguinor comes with no weapon attached to him in the package. And since there are no rules that allow you to assemble his sword to the rest of his body, doing so is modelling for advantage.

There are NO rules for Converting, Assembly or Painting. It is not part of the rulebook. So anyone who says that it is okay to Convert, Assemble or Paint from a rules perspective is wrong. That being said, it is generally accepted that Converting, Assembling and Painting are okay.

Some people draw the line at some types of conversion, but that is a personal preference and not a rules difference.

Thats mearely an assumption. You assume that special characters have their wargear set in stone.

This is true for most as they eplicitly say what they have.

However the Sanguinor does not explicitly define what he has.


Plus there is nothing that prevents you from scratch building your own version of an existing model.

My buddy made a Belial conversion using Lysander. You are not required to use the official model. Only that it be WYSIWYG.


WYSIWYG, is a converted Sanguinor with an Axe armed with a Glaive Encarmine? Yes, he has a fancy looking Axe, which is a legal form of a Glaive Encarmine.

A Mace or a Lance would NOT be a legal conversion as Glaive Encarmines are said to be either Axes or Swords.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Thats mearely an assumption. You assume that special characters have their wargear set in stone.

This is true for most as they eplicitly say what they have.

However the Sanguinor does not explicitly define what he has.


Plus there is nothing that prevents you from scratch building your own version of an existing model.

My buddy made a Belial conversion using Lysander. You are not required to use the official model. Only that it be WYSIWYG.


WYSIWYG, is a converted Sanguinor with an Axe armed with a Glaive Encarmine? Yes, he has a fancy looking Axe, which is a legal form of a Glaive Encarmine.

A Mace or a Lance would NOT be a legal conversion as Glaive Encarmines are said to be either Axes or Swords.

Assumptions? Me? Mirror much?
Special characters do have their wargear set in stone... calgar has a choice of armour but he has 2 pf and a sword. not 2pf and a power weapon of your choice.
Lukas the trickster is wolf claw and plasma pistol.

Also the sanguinor does come with a weapon attached, the body and arms are 1 piece, the wings and jump pack are the final 3 pieces.

Whoops, my bad. I'm thinking of the dude with the axe over his head.

Either way, Sanguinor does not have a wargear option of Glaive Encarmine (Sword) listed in his profile.

 pretre wrote:
Whoops, my bad. I'm thinking of the dude with the axe over his head.

Either way, Sanguinor does not have a wargear option of Glaive Encarmine (Sword) listed in his profile.

True, but that entry was from before 6th, when all PW were the same.

As the actual, physical model comes with a sword, I would say it is modelling for advantage in this case, and lobby for not allowing it in a tournament. Friendly games are just that, and it really wouldn't matter, but I feel you have to abide by the rules in tournaments.

And as to people who model their own special characters, as long as the gear mirrors the gear from the original models, that is fine. But changing the gear isn't acceptable. And using Belial as an example doesn't really work, as he doesn't have a model, only rules. So modelling him is physically mandatory if you want to use him, and he just have to abide by his wargear from his rules. But I can't change Abaddon's weapons to a power maul and storm shield because I think it looks awesome(which it would not).

Salacious Greed wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Whoops, my bad. I'm thinking of the dude with the axe over his head.

Either way, Sanguinor does not have a wargear option of Glaive Encarmine (Sword) listed in his profile.

True, but that entry was from before 6th, when all PW were the same.

As the actual, physical model comes with a sword, I would say it is modelling for advantage in this case, and lobby for not allowing it in a tournament. Friendly games are just that, and it really wouldn't matter, but I feel you have to abide by the rules in tournaments.

And as to people who model their own special characters, as long as the gear mirrors the gear from the original models, that is fine. But changing the gear isn't acceptable. And using Belial as an example doesn't really work, as he doesn't have a model, only rules. So modelling him is physically mandatory if you want to use him, and he just have to abide by his wargear from his rules. But I can't change Abaddon's weapons to a power maul and storm shield because I think it looks awesome(which it would not).

But the issue of "what is a Glaive Encarime?" is addressed in the FAQ. Even if it doesn't specifically address Sanguinor, it says that a Glaive is either an axe or a sword. Thus, RAW, it's perfectly legal to choose option A, Axe, rather than option B, Sword.

Abbaddon, however, has weapons which are clearly spelled out in his rules. So, you can't change them.

Salacious Greed wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Whoops, my bad. I'm thinking of the dude with the axe over his head.

Either way, Sanguinor does not have a wargear option of Glaive Encarmine (Sword) listed in his profile.

True, but that entry was from before 6th, when all PW were the same.

As the actual, physical model comes with a sword, I would say it is modelling for advantage in this case, and lobby for not allowing it in a tournament. Friendly games are just that, and it really wouldn't matter, but I feel you have to abide by the rules in tournaments.

And as to people who model their own special characters, as long as the gear mirrors the gear from the original models, that is fine. But changing the gear isn't acceptable. And using Belial as an example doesn't really work, as he doesn't have a model, only rules. So modelling him is physically mandatory if you want to use him, and he just have to abide by his wargear from his rules. But I can't change Abaddon's weapons to a power maul and storm shield because I think it looks awesome(which it would not).

Problem is that they have clearly FAQ'd units with parenthetical updates when they wanted it to be a specific type (rune priests, for example). They have not done that with Sanguinor. You couldn't change Abaddon's weapons because he has two clearly defined weapons that the representation doesn't matter on.

Oh for the love of pete theres a FAQ about it and the kit comes with axes and swords. So yes if you want all of them to have the GE axe insted of the sword then by all means have at it.

Lungpickle wrote:
Oh for the love of pete theres a FAQ about it and the kit comes with axes and swords. So yes if you want all of them to have the GE axe insted of the sword then by all means have at it.

The question is for the Sanguinor, not Sanguinary Guard. I don't believe the Sanguinor kit comes with an axe.

Question still seems to have been answered, though.

Lungpickle wrote:
Oh for the love of pete theres a FAQ about it and the kit comes with axes and swords. So yes if you want all of them to have the GE axe insted of the sword then by all means have at it.

Find an axe in there and I will give you 50 of whatever currency you use.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440191a&prodId=prod1700035a

 liturgies of blood wrote:

Lungpickle wrote:
Oh for the love of pete theres a FAQ about it and the kit comes with axes and swords. So yes if you want all of them to have the GE axe insted of the sword then by all means have at it.

Find an axe in there and I will give you 50 of whatever currency you use.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440191a&prodId=prod1700035a

He was talking about the Sanguinary guard.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440192a&prodId=prod680007a

Not having an option is not evidence you can't change it.

Tactical Marine boxes don't have Power Axes, Lances, or Mauls. Yet you would never say they arn't a legal option to put on the model.

What about Sternguard and Combi-flamers? There is no Combi-flamer option anywhere in GWs product line.

There is an upgrade pack. You should look at it. Combi-flamer exists.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440277a&prodId=prod1710018a


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:

Lungpickle wrote:
Oh for the love of pete theres a FAQ about it and the kit comes with axes and swords. So yes if you want all of them to have the GE axe insted of the sword then by all means have at it.

Find an axe in there and I will give you 50 of whatever currency you use.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440191a&prodId=prod1700035a

He was talking about the Sanguinary guard.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440192a&prodId=prod680007a

Yes he was and I was showing him what we were talking about. It's not the same as sanguinary guard since they have weapons options.

Going to just go with a "No" for changing the weapons on named characters, as it stands sanguinary guard I'd call it MFA.

My only problem is that the weapons name tells you what it is. It is a "Glaive" which is a pole-arm with a sword on it. So it is a sword. If it was an axe like weapon I believe it would be a halbred....

BUT the FAQ says that a Glaive Encarmine (spelling?) is a Power Sword or Power Axe.

I'd say it would be ok, you aren't breaking any rules. Unless GW FAQs it...

emptyedens wrote:
My only problem is that the weapons name tells you what it is. It is a "Glaive" which is a pole-arm with a sword on it. So it is a sword. If it was an axe like weapon I believe it would be a halbred....

Your definition is very dependent on if you are in future france or future britain. A glaive is used to refer to pole-arms that look like both swords or axes depending where you are from.

The definition of which weapon the sanguinor is armed with was already taken care of by the GW design team.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
The definition of which weapon the sanguinor is armed with was already taken care of by the GW design team.

Yes it has, he has a Glaive Encarmine.

And Glaive Encarmines have their own FaQ:

"Q: Are Glaive Encarmines treated as ‘unusual power weapons’ (and
therefore AP 3), or do they follow the rules for power axes/swords as
defined by the type of weapon the model is carrying? (p50)
A: Glaive Encarmines follow the rules as described in the Types
of Power Weapon section on page 61 of the Warhammer 40,000
rulebook, but also have the Master-crafted and Two-handed
special rules. They would therefore have the following profiles.

Range S AP Type
Glaive Encarmine(Sword)
Range: -
S: User
AP: 3
Type: Melee, Master-crafted, Two-handed.

Glaive Encarmine(Axe)
Range: -
S: +1
AP: 2
Type: Melee, Master-crafted, Two-handed, Unwieldy" P.4 GW FaQ

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2570037a_Blood_Angels_v1.1.pdf

So a sword follows the first profile, an axe the second.

LOL oh well there is something to be learned here. I need to read slower and more times than once.. ya well sanguinor comes with a sword so im thinking anything else is just lame.

Lungpickle wrote:
LOL oh well there is something to be learned here. I need to read slower and more times than once.. ya well sanguinor comes with a sword so im thinking anything else is just lame.

The Sanguinor's wargear lists a Glaive Encarmine. "A Glaive Encarmine is a Two-Handed master -crafted power weapon." Page 50 BA codex.
along with the FaQ it is either a sword or an axe.

And along with GW's model it is a sword.