Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Im done with my Zeal. Read some promising hush hush stuff elsewhere. If the new model rumors are true then the WD update will be good for us. I just think a lack of codex is lame, but we will get it down the road. Hopefully the Neo squad is a seperate option and not a loss of Black Tide mechanics. I would like to see Whirlwhinds with Skyfire and some Orbital Bombardments. Free Frags. Buffs to Sword Bretheren. We will see how this goes down.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:


Now this is just a rumor for now, Im completely baffled at GWs inability to get its gak together and release an updated full length codex for the oldest army out there. People are buying your product and keeping you guys fed, clothed, and a roof over your head. I can understand suprise releases and dragging out releases for a few years, but for gods sakes keep your gak updated!!! Im unable to see why they update in the order they do, and just ignore paying customers who can barely play their hard earned and worked upon armies anymore. Thats us, SoB, Tau, and whoever else got left in the dust.

Hey GW, pull your heads out of your asses and do your fething job right like every other succesful entertainment company seems able to do. Ive only been in this hobby going on a year now and Im seriously starting to scratch my head at wtf Im wasting my time on. I should just get back into modding my car; at least car manufacturers keep their models updated.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Im sure there are several other threads on this forum you will fit into if you have nothing productive or intelligent to say. Try them out.

Was the irony there intentional?

As for a BT WD dex, it works as DA and Tau are getting updates next, and that leaves the BT dex as the sole holdout from mid 4th edition that needs new rules. Unless they are coming after Eldar, they will still be aroundwithout an update for a while, and BT are well enough model range wise that they can get by with just new rules and no new models. Just give them access to say the Storm Talon and they are OK with no model range change.
Or simply add Grimaldus and Helbrecht as HQ choices and the Emperor's Champion as an elite SC in the next Codex: SM. Have Grimaldus be an alternative to Cassius for a PA Chaplain, the Emperor's champion good in challenges and act like a Chapter banner (+1 to combat results and +1 attack) to all uits within say 12") And have Helbrect have a rule: Master of the Crusade- for each model in power armor in a Tactical squad, you may add up to one space marine scout (from the scout unit entry) for x points to that unit, who may choose bolter, bolt pistol/ccw, or shotgun as their weapon option.

I think the more onerous thing about the SoB White Dwarf update was the lack of minis. If that's going to be the case again here then it will be rightly considered a bad release no matter how good the rules are.

 Lansirill wrote:
And at the low low price of $300 + $10/issue.

 Kroothawk wrote:
And silly me thought you need a 400$ Ipad to read it

If the iPad existed only for GW products, you might have an excellent point. Fortunately it's a multi-purpose device, so all I'm seeing here is two babies going abloo bloo bloo.

The point is, unlike in the past, it will be possible to obtain a back issue of WD through legal digital means. On top of that it's easier than ever to make copies and screenshots of it.
This means a WD update for Black Templars is much, much better off than it was for Sisters, Daemons, and so on.

I look forward to this issue selling out in a couple of days and loads of BT players being without their updated Codices unless they can get their hands in an iOS platform.

What bizarro world did I wake up in that people are complaining about not having copies of White Dwarf?

And not even that, but complaining about a White Dwarf thats only been rumored to be coming.

I hear the Twilight Zone music in my head as I ponder this baffling reversal.

Actually, it's the preemptive whining of people that may have invested a good deal of money in an army they will not be able to legally play. From a consumer point of view GWs actions reminds me of conversations I had with Russian economists back in the 80's. I imagine most people who play BT will have no idea that new rules are coming out (if rules do come out in WD) When they do try to track them down they will be sold out.
Silly really.

This puzzles me

either White Dwarf will be widely available,so BT players will get hold of it and then use the new list

or

White dwarf will not be widely available, most BT players will not get hold of it and will not end up using the new rules, instead sticking to the old set

so where is the problem ? It's not as if GW runs tornaments anymore and play in GW shops shouldn't be impacted

I worry that the shooting options we currently have will be neutered while the melee stuff will get a small but inadequate buff. The rumours of the Emperor's Champion becoming non-mandatory doesn't amuse me either.

Dwarf Codex: Sisters of Battle was an improvement over Codex: Witch Hunters in almost every way- the exceptions being the loss of a second Troops option (and a good one at that!), the nerf to Immolators (losing Fast, but remaining at 65 points for what is, essentially, a Razorback), and the general uncompetitiveness of the vanilla Canoness and Sororitas Command Squad. Two missed opportunities were the Repressor and the Militia; though Witch Hunters didn't have either of these units, either.

Everything else was an improvement. Across the board, prices dropped. Repentia, Seraphim, and Retributors, previously bad by virtue of cost, became solid choices. Dominions, who once played second fiddle to Celestians, became the pre-eminent unit in their role (even if the Immolator took a knock). The Exorcist remains a beast. Battle Conclaves, although enjoying less options than the Henchman squad they replaced, are much, much better.

Do I expect great things from the Dwarf Codex: Black Templars? No. But I do expect it to give us an armylist that's more competitive than the current Codex: Black Templars. I hope it honors some of the Black Templar mainstays from the current codex in some form (Whirlwinds, Tankhunting Dreads, upgunned terminator squads, Bikers with powerweapons) while bringing the entire army up to speed. If there are no new models, I'm going to be unhappy if I have to remodel and repaint large parts of the army (like the Chaos players who had to redo all their Termies with the new codex, then when the FAQ dropped had to go back and restore them all to their original configuration!) I also hope that it's available in digital format, so it won't become as hard to procure as the Sisters codex.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
This puzzles me

either White Dwarf will be widely available,so BT players will get hold of it and then use the new list

or

White dwarf will not be widely available, most BT players will not get hold of it and will not end up using the new rules, instead sticking to the old set

so where is the problem ? It's not as if GW runs tornaments anymore and play in GW shops shouldn't be impacted

For me the problem is that it encourages behavior GW is trying to prevent. Piracy. Black market behavior. Little covens of illicit game material passed around by teenagers in the dark corners of game stores.
Hell in the UK some safety spanker was talking about banning pointy knives. Pretty soon it will be GW turned Johnny into an Internet pirate!
Ok, that's over the top sarcasm ....

 Stormfather wrote:
If there are no new models, I'm going to be unhappy if I have to remodel and repaint large parts of the army (like the Chaos players who had to redo all their Termies with the new codex, then when the FAQ dropped had to go back and restore them all to their original configuration!)

There will be new models, without a doubt. Months ago Harry commented on seeing the models and seemed quite pleased. Even back then it seemed like the models had been sitting around unused for some time, so if this is not the right time to release (some or all of) them, then it seems monumentally stupid.

 Vhalyar wrote:

 Stormfather wrote:
If there are no new models, I'm going to be unhappy if I have to remodel and repaint large parts of the army (like the Chaos players who had to redo all their Termies with the new codex, then when the FAQ dropped had to go back and restore them all to their original configuration!)

There will be new models, without a doubt. Months ago Harry commented on seeing the models and seemed quite pleased. Even back then it seemed like the models had been sitting around unused for some time, so if this is not the right time to release (some or all of) them, then it seems monumentally stupid.

The same was said of Sisters of Battle plastics, though. I hope the BT's get some new toys, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were withheld until a proper Codex was released.

 Stormfather wrote:

 Vhalyar wrote:

 Stormfather wrote:
If there are no new models, I'm going to be unhappy if I have to remodel and repaint large parts of the army (like the Chaos players who had to redo all their Termies with the new codex, then when the FAQ dropped had to go back and restore them all to their original configuration!)

There will be new models, without a doubt. Months ago Harry commented on seeing the models and seemed quite pleased. Even back then it seemed like the models had been sitting around unused for some time, so if this is not the right time to release (some or all of) them, then it seems monumentally stupid.

The same was said of Sisters of Battle plastics, though. I hope the BT's get some new toys, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were withheld until a proper Codex was released.

Went back to review the Sisters rumors, and there's two things:
1) Stickmonkey's comments regarding Sisters models. It was heavily implied that he had seen test sculpts.
2) StraightSilver's discussion with Jes Goodwin. Jes explained the difficulties/design issues in getting the models looking right. If anything, it meant we would not see anything for a while.

Basically, nothing was particularly implied about actual SoB boxes. Meanwhile, Harry's said that the models he saw were basically good to go & sell at any moment.

On the 40k tab on GW's page I noticed the background image had changed, or at least appears to.

Maybe a sign that this WD codex isn't that far away after all?
/clutching at straws

I really liked how the edition changes turned them into such a shooting MSU army. It was one of those mechanical things with a lot of character that tickles you.

Looking forward to seeing what they come out with. Would love to see lots of chaff guys and IC's to add and units with a landraider built into their cost.

All I can say, least it is somthing rather than nothing. Just as long as BT do not get rolled into C:SM I will be happy. I just wonder what sort of goodies they will get and changes that will happen. I hope they at least change up the weapon options for the crusader squads and sword brethren.

 ArmageddonBorn wrote:
. Just make my BTs playable again.

That's all I ask for. I can deal with a WD update if I have to, so long as the codex is competitive.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I look forward to this issue selling out in a couple of days and loads of BT players being without their updated Codices unless they can get their hands in an iOS platform.

Sadly, this is exactly what will happen. *rolls an 18 on a d20* There, I successfully saved versus making another long rant about them not putting out PDFs of White Dwarf material. I don't own, want, or need an iPad, nor should I have to buy one to play this fething game. Grr...

 Stormfather wrote:
Dwarf Codex: Sisters of Battle was an improvement over Codex: Witch Hunters in almost every way- the exceptions being the loss of a second Troops option (and a good one at that!), the nerf to Immolators (losing Fast, but remaining at 65 points for what is, essentially, a Razorback), and the general uncompetitiveness of the vanilla Canoness and Sororitas Command Squad. Two missed opportunities were the Repressor and the Militia; though Witch Hunters didn't have either of these units, either.

Everything else was an improvement. Across the board, prices dropped. Repentia, Seraphim, and Retributors, previously bad by virtue of cost, became solid choices. Dominions, who once played second fiddle to Celestians, became the pre-eminent unit in their role (even if the Immolator took a knock). The Exorcist remains a beast. Battle Conclaves, although enjoying less options than the Henchman squad they replaced, are much, much better.

Do I expect great things from the Dwarf Codex: Black Templars? No. But I do expect it to give us an armylist that's more competitive than the current Codex: Black Templars. I hope it honors some of the Black Templar mainstays from the current codex in some form (Whirlwinds, Tankhunting Dreads, upgunned terminator squads, Bikers with powerweapons) while bringing the entire army up to speed. If there are no new models, I'm going to be unhappy if I have to remodel and repaint large parts of the army (like the Chaos players who had to redo all their Termies with the new codex, then when the FAQ dropped had to go back and restore them all to their original configuration!) I also hope that it's available in digital format, so it won't become as hard to procure as the Sisters codex.

The WD codex was better than the third? I don't think so, give me back the third edition Codex: Witch Hunters any day.

I expect BT crusader squads will cost around 13-14 points each, cheap to ring true to the 'horde' aspect of BT, Sword brethren will have an increased WS with access to better toys, Chaplains will keep their current abilities while moving to a 1-3 elite choice, everyone will get Frag Grenades and they will have some kind of serious bonus against psykers. I also expect the fluff to be changed and that more than a few people will be pissed at the update.

Sword Brethren, being elite veterans, should have A2 like Sternguard. I can deal with WS4 instead of WS5 so long as it's A2.

Chaplains as an elite choice would eat into our Dreadnought and Terminator slots, unless you're saying we can take 1-3 Chaplains with a single Elite slot and split them into other units.

 kronk wrote:

Chaplains as an elite choice would eat into our Dreadnought and Terminator slots, unless you're saying we can take 1-3 Chaplains with a single Elite slot and split them into other units.

Of course. I thought it was generally accepted as a 1-3 choice meant they fit in a single unit slot, once the BA priests started this up.

If SW's did this with lone wolves, I'd probably actually play them...It would be a losing army, but an entire army of "heroes" that are immune to ID? Yes, it would be fun.

As long as I get my dreadknight sized crusader, complete with badass helmet, sword and shield, I will be beyond happy. No one and I mean NO ONE is gonna with a 20 foot mechanical knight who will stop at nothing to squash its pathetic enemies deep into the wretched soil that it has tainted.

Oh hello trygon, KASLICE
Whats that tau, you wanna shoot it? Aww too bad it has a big ass shield KABLOCK
Oh cool dreadknight, too bad it aint as manly as this guy KATAUNT
You have that OP chaos guy? LOLZ KASTOMP

Uh. I don't recall that from any of the fluff...

Me neither.

And while GW does love them some new, weird big kits for every new release, you might just want to play Grey Knights if that's what you're after.

Yeah...that sounds like Fanwank. Please, no. God, no.

No, I don't want Grey Knights invading my crusaders thank you... I hope we do get at least a WD codex, getting rolled into SM would be awful. As a side note, I was flicking through my rulebook and BT didn't get a page dedicated to themselves like DA or BA or GK. I hope this is just me being paranoid and not something telling the future of BT.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
No, I don't want Grey Knights invading my crusaders thank you... I hope we do get at least a WD codex, getting rolled into SM would be awful. As a side note, I was flicking through my rulebook and BT didn't get a page dedicated to themselves like DA or BA or GK. I hope this is just me being paranoid and not something telling the future of BT.

The 'no separate page' thing was hashed to death in a false rumor thread. Don't worry about it being a 'future' telling. Instead, look at the page that shows alliances, as BTs clearly have a place in the alliance page.

Well, GK's are the only Psykers BT will ally with, right?

According to the codex that's all, but in the allies matrix thingy, you can ally with Eldar, which is contradicting so much with the fluff.