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 Briancj wrote:
So.

If you're locking yourself into a purist army, then I would suggest spamming whatever Leman Russ variant is good against flyers, maybe some Hydras as backup, plus the ADL/Lascannon.

The Hydra is a FW model. He wouldn't be able to play it.

I'd take the ADL and put a squad of vets in it, GW makes an ADL model so I assume he wont ban that as well. As for your army I'd suggest going more towards a static gun line list.

General question...is there a fee to play in this event? And is the TO also going to play in the event?

While I do love conversions, and would dislike being told there is no conversions allowed in an event I want to go to, this event is not being run by games workshop. Each and every tourney uses some level of house rule, as there are no rule book rules for running an event.

My guess is that the organizer wants to avoid the issues of modeling for advantage since no such rule exists in the book. So one can either pre screen every model that will be coming to the event in advance so players don't get screwed by bringing a model they cant use and having nothing to substitute. Or, you can make a ruling that only stock models can be used, which worked for war machine, thus avoiding the issue of modeling for advantage entirely.

To be honest, neither option is superior for a store owner. Either you upset people with legitimate conversions or you upset your players playing against poorly proxied armies or armies modeled for advantage. Without knowing the stores clients no one can claim one option is better than the other.

To the op's question, I always liked scout sentinels for fast attack if not loading up on vendettas. Same slot, you can still outflank and multilasers do good damage to side armor on most things. That plus an aegis with your extra points to protect your troops in lieu of being in a vendetta, combined with the decent shooting of the quad gun and sentinels, means you should be fine.

DevianID wrote:
My guess is that the organizer wants to avoid the issues of modeling for advantage since no such rule exists in the book. So one can either pre screen every model that will be coming to the event in advance so players don't get screwed by bringing a model they cant use and having nothing to substitute. Or, you can make a ruling that only stock models can be used, which worked for war machine, thus avoiding the issue of modeling for advantage entirely.

The reason this works for Warmachine is because units don't have options, or if they do they are in the form of adding in another specific model. You don't have the option of equipping a sergeant with a dozen different weapons, so they don't have to worry about options being in the box or not. This doesn't work at all for 40k as it invalidates a huge number of legal options.

@#$*)$#*, I didn't even think about the Hydra issue. GAH.

And since you can't take allies, OMFG.

I, honestly, don't see a reason to even participate. But! If you're going to press forward (and have but a few days left)...it might help to get a rough accounting of what models/forces you have available in your IG army?

--Brian

So you need help with a IG army and there are a few ork and necron players in this tourney...

Two words: Basilisk. Squadrons.

You will be surprised on how much damage 3 pie plates do against hordes at Str9...

Also Manticores are great for anti-tank...

need to take out entrenched troops? Banewolfs... or if there are more Xeno players than marine players add in Hellhounds...

Hope this helps

Tournament Organizing for advantage is not cool. If you paid a premium to make a Vendetta, you should be able to use it.

There's a IG list that forces you to roll for about 30-60 min straight due toi the new template / scatter rules or something...ask Peregrine about it, he's an IG and hardcore WAAC player, he can give you more details on it.

Just troll the living hell out of them! While on the one hand, as a player, I can't be sad about banning the most overpowered unit in the entire game, on the other hand, banning all "non GW" models is downright stupid...converting models is a solid part of the game. Seems more like he's trying to force new stuff down yer throat.

Take he most trollrific but legal list possible make his life a living heel.

Take 9 valkyries, and as many vets/sWS's with demoliton charges as humanly possible (and GW DOES make guys with demo charges)

Make him regret the day he thought he could screw you over

Hrm... no Vendettas, no allies, possibly no ADLs...?

This sounds like the TO demands that a Necron Air Force win the tourney. I'd let the TO know that you have no interest in playing a rigged game, and advise him that you will spend your money elsewhere. Even if it's the only game in town, it's not worth subjecting yourself to abusive rules. I doubt that you're the only one with this problem, and if you merely curb your tolerance for BS like this, the TO will very quickly learn that bad ideas are not good for business.

So....wait...no fortifications....no Hydras (FW model)....no Vendettas....so you have absolutely no anti-air outside just spamming autocannons and hoping for the best?

Well.

Thats....*sigh* Anyway, I would REALLY tell the TO that he is making the game rigged and you have no interest in spending money there to play a rigged game where you have no chance of winning if anyone brings a flier list (which, people will). Trust me, once he starts losing customers he will change ways but if you keep giving him money he won't change a thing.

But alas, you are playing in the tourny. Since there is pretty much no competitive TAC builds left after the rules, you are basically gonna have to go without and hope that you get lucky with your rolls. Once the tourny happens, you will have to fill us in on how it went. Im sure we are all curious as to who wins...

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out how effective Annihilation Barges are in dealing with fliers. Twin-linked Tesla has a way of rolling 6's and making those 6's count.

...could he be any more obvious about creating a Necron-biased tournament, or am I overreacting?

 Sigvatr wrote:
There's a IG list that forces you to roll for about 30-60 min straight due toi the new template / scatter rules or something...ask Peregrine about it, he's an IG and hardcore WAAC player, he can give you more details on it.

Sadly it uses FW units, so it wouldn't work here. But yes, it would be funny to bring a list with three batteries of 12-shot barrage weapons, plus heavy support slots full of squadrons of three Manticore platforms. It would probably lose a fair game, but if your opponent ragequits it's a win...

My guess is that the organizer wants to avoid the issues of modeling for advantage since no such rule exists in the book. So one can either pre screen every model that will be coming to the event in advance so players don't get screwed by bringing a model they cant use and having nothing to substitute. Or, you can make a ruling that only stock models can be used, which worked for war machine, thus avoiding the issue of modeling for advantage entirely.

Except this also includes things like "swapping the sergeant's laspistol for a plasma pistol", something that could never have any meaningful effect on LOS/movement distances/etc. The rule is just WAY too broad, to the point that the only reasons I can think of are "get people to buy more stuff from me because I made their armies illegal" or "my buddy's Necron flyerspam will get an automatic win".

HawaiiMatt wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Hedkrakka wrote:
FW is not allowed, and since you can't make a Vendetta with the Valkyrie kit, that's not allowed either. It's the stupid rule that conversions aren't allowed. Check the army list for more detailed discussion.

Just gonna point this out for you since you could probably use it to your advantage massively; make sure no Space Marine player is playing with combi-weapons, converted Sternguard, Razorbacks with anything other than Heavy Bolters or TLLCs, Storm Shield Librarians, Power Fist Sergeants or anything similar that doesn't have the options "straight out of the box".

Besides, you can build a Vendetta out of the Valkyrie kit; you just require 3 of the kits for each Vendetta, but it's all bits from the Valkyrie box. You get a Lascannon in each, after all. I doubt that the TO(s) are going to listen to that argument, but have it in mind.

Except I've got sarg's with power fists, and a razorback with las/plas. They are just older GW models.

Fair enough, but it has to be the old models then, no conversion allowed after all!

Also, absolutely no Long Fangs with 4x Missile Launchers or similar.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Also, absolutely no Long Fangs with 4x Missile Launchers or similar.

Unless of course you buy 4 kits of them from his store!

This sounds like a dumb rule. Dark angels could not run a deathwing list since there is no official Belial model and if someone can do a counts as using a terminator captain then you should be able to counts as a vendetta. Orks could not run a biker list since no wazzdakka they could not take Zogwort either no looted wagons either. Why not just hand out the army lists to players for them. I know how it can be in a small town though to get games in I would just let the TO know he is screwing his players over. Maybe run your own tourney just ask if you could use the store.

Other wise orks might be rough but their flyers are made of paper I have lost dakkajets a couple times to bolter fire and guard do pretty good against the rest of the ork list. Necrons though with the amount of flyers they can bring with better armor than the orks is what you really need to worry about. This tournament sounds like it's made for Necrons. I got no suggestions there except maybe AC spam.

Those tournament rules seem a bit harsh, and i've been to tournaments quite recently with some quite specific limitations. The most recent was: no special characters, no fliers, no fortifications, no forgeworld (excepting ones in the codices) and all models had to be WYSIWYG. I mean, i've recently started playing the game again, and decided to delve into my bits box and kit bash and convert pretty much every single model in my Imperial fists army, so a blanket 'no conversions' rule would really make me sad.

Are you absolutely certain you have the tournament limits correctly? you've not misread them or something? because (as an example) a marine assault squad can have a sergeant with a thunderhammer and storm shield, and i'm almost certain you would have to kitbash it (unless the assault marine boxed set has the options in it) making a legal codex entry 'illegal' for your tournament, (and yes i know its a bad way to spend your points but when he's painted he'll look awesome!)

Some tournament limits can seem harsh at first, but they make sense, and they challenge you to bring a competitive army, but the tournament you are asking advice for is just so absurd i would simply give it a miss entirely

This TO sounds like a massive clown.

 washout77 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Also, absolutely no Long Fangs with 4x Missile Launchers or similar.

Unless of course you buy 4 kits of them from his store!

But you can't even do that, because then he'd be able to bring his Vendettas! It has to be makeable from one box, or it's a no-go.

madtankbloke wrote:
Those tournament rules seem a bit harsh, and i've been to tournaments quite recently with some quite specific limitations. The most recent was: no special characters, no fliers, no fortifications, no forgeworld (excepting ones in the codices) and all models had to be WYSIWYG. I mean, i've recently started playing the game again, and decided to delve into my bits box and kit bash and convert pretty much every single model in my Imperial fists army, so a blanket 'no conversions' rule would really make me sad.

Are you absolutely certain you have the tournament limits correctly? you've not misread them or something? because (as an example) a marine assault squad can have a sergeant with a thunderhammer and storm shield, and i'm almost certain you would have to kitbash it (unless the assault marine boxed set has the options in it) making a legal codex entry 'illegal' for your tournament, (and yes i know its a bad way to spend your points but when he's painted he'll look awesome!)

Some tournament limits can seem harsh at first, but they make sense, and they challenge you to bring a competitive army, but the tournament you are asking advice for is just so absurd i would simply give it a miss entirely

Assault marine sarge with TH/SS is a NoGo, but iirc, you can do poweraxe/SS.

As far as the tournament, I would go 9 basilisk and as many mortars as you can fit, not quite as good as the FW barrage list, but can still burn a lot of time, and stupid TO deserves to have stupid lists played in his tournament. Or if you want somewhat effective, throw in some lascannon or autocannon HWSs to deal with tanks/transports, and a pair of CCSs to give BiD to the HWS for AA. Not as effective as Vendetta/hydra, but probably the best you can do.

Um, i would have to say screw that tournament. There are a lot of stuff you cant "buy" because GW doesnt have a model for it. Orks for example there is no GW version of Wazdakka or a biker boss, and both are nasty as hell (you must go FW to get them, or scratchbuild).

Sounds like someone leading it doesnt like Vendettas to me. And rather than figure out how to deal with them he/she put this lame rule up.

Sorry everyone, I had problems with my internet. Update on the ADL: It's allowed, so it's definitely going into the list with a quad gun, along with as much TL as possible (multiple Exterminators, I guess-I could throw a hull LC on them if I have the points to make them a bit more effective against other units). That should take care of the AA role as long as there is no uber-flyerspam around (NS, anyone?).

TO sounds like a real piece of work.

No offense, but I personally hope this tourney bombs out hardcore. This joker deserves to get a no-show.

If you insist on playing though.
AV 14 LRBT spam is fairly effective. Especially as most lists will be lacking.

If fortifications are allowed the landing pad could be an option to might not help kill the flyers but could allow 4+ invul on a bunch of other stuff to shoot at them. Problem is with necrons still being able to keep transports in the air until last turn and just beam down the troops to claim or contest obectives. Other than Necron air force though the landing pad could make everyone else pull their hair out.

Hedkrakka wrote:
That should take care of the AA role as long as there is no uber-flyerspam around (NS, anyone?).

Yeah, that's just foolishly optimistic. The tournament seems designed for Necron flyerspam since it removes all of the best AA units while doing nothing to slow down Necrons (since everything in their codex has a no-conversion model available).

My guess is the TO's friend has Necron flyerspam, and the rest of you are just contributing your entry fees to his prize.

Well I'd talk to your friend who is running this about how the rule is whacky and opens the game up to a lot of problems (options you are expected to convert on srg for instance). If he isn't down I'd recommend talking to a couple folks and testing the water about starting your own league. If you really want to protest you can try finding some space. Legions and banquet halls are often good to go for reliable hobbyists.

Also you can try curbing his behavior by asking to do orders for non gw things through his shop. Really this is just a special dumb game of its own he is making and you can probably still win it with some shifts.

I also realized, for IG players you can't have any Melta or Plasma in your vet squads unless they are the monopose metal models GW makes in blisters, since the Infantry sets don't come with them and any other way to get them would be a conversion...

This is gonna be a hard fought battle, my friend hahaha

 Peregrine wrote:

Hedkrakka wrote:
That should take care of the AA role as long as there is no uber-flyerspam around (NS, anyone?).

Yeah, that's just foolishly optimistic. The tournament seems designed for Necron flyerspam since it removes all of the best AA units while doing nothing to slow down Necrons (since everything in their codex has a no-conversion model available).

It could simply be designed for a Daemon list. Or a number of other things.

I did decide to back off in the end, since he started complaining about my army when I went to the LGS this morning: "Are you sure you can have three plasma guns in your command squad?"...

Screw this tournament.


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And thanks to all who tried to help.