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In a short while there will be a tournament with a nice prize and some very weird rule, including Vendettas not being allowed, as is any unit with no official model you can buy on the GW website. The points limit will be 1500 pts. So how should I compensate for the sudden lack of AA and AT? The options I'm considering are:

AA
1-ADL w/Quad Gun. The most logical choice, but I'm not sure they're allowed, since the rules specifically state that only things in the official codex can be brought. I'll update this information ASAP.
2-LR Exterminators/Punishers. TL or a lot of mid-strength dakka.
3-HW teams w/BiD. Do they work against fliers? (Technically, a Flier is a type of vehicle, so it should, but the wording is weird in the BRB)
4-Valkyries w/LC and MRP. Last resort only, since I never magnetized my Vendettas and I'm loath to destroy them for a single tournament. There seemed to be no point with the Vendetta being so much better than the Valkyrie...

AT
1-More massed LCs in ISs.
2-Melta Stormtroopers, Airborne Assault.
3-Russes, Manticores, all the stuff I usually use to kill troops. Sub-optimal, but they're already in the list.
4-Scout Sentinels w/Lascannons. I hate them, and I'm listing them only because I have the models (WYSIWYG!)

Any ideas/recommendations?

PS: I have already posted a 1500 pt list for this tournament which can serve as a reference if needed:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/496221.page

The vendetta has a model...its just a valk with a diffirent gun.....and forgeworld has a vandetta model i believe.

ADL plus exterminators would be my pick for AA and general mischief.
Personally I would spam hellhound variants, but then I am contrary.

FW is not allowed, and since you can't make a Vendetta with the Valkyrie kit, that's not allowed either. It's the stupid rule that conversions aren't allowed. Check the army list for more detailed discussion.

Hedkrakka wrote:
FW is not allowed, and since you can't make a Vendetta with the Valkyrie kit, that's not allowed either. It's the stupid rule that conversions aren't allowed. Check the army list for more detailed discussion.

Just gonna point this out for you since you could probably use it to your advantage massively; make sure no Space Marine player is playing with combi-weapons, converted Sternguard, Razorbacks with anything other than Heavy Bolters or TLLCs, Storm Shield Librarians, Power Fist Sergeants or anything similar that doesn't have the options "straight out of the box".

Besides, you can build a Vendetta out of the Valkyrie kit; you just require 3 of the kits for each Vendetta, but it's all bits from the Valkyrie box. You get a Lascannon in each, after all. I doubt that the TO(s) are going to listen to that argument, but have it in mind.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Just gonna point this out for you since you could probably use it to your advantage massively; make sure no Space Marine player is playing with combi-weapons, converted Sternguard, Razorbacks with anything other than Heavy Bolters or TLLCs, Storm Shield Librarians, Power Fist Sergeants or anything similar that doesn't have the options "straight out of the box".

This. Tell the TO to stop running stupid tournaments and take your business elsewhere.

 Peregrine wrote:

Tell the TO to stop running stupid tournaments and take your business elsewhere.

Pretty much this. I paid for the legal GW model, I can use it just like the codex says, or I can just not pay to enter the tournament. Either way, the guard player wins.

 Peregrine wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Just gonna point this out for you since you could probably use it to your advantage massively; make sure no Space Marine player is playing with combi-weapons, converted Sternguard, Razorbacks with anything other than Heavy Bolters or TLLCs, Storm Shield Librarians, Power Fist Sergeants or anything similar that doesn't have the options "straight out of the box".

This. Tell the TO to stop running stupid tournaments and take your business elsewhere.

I would love to. Actually, I will. However, I live in a small town with a single LGS and not too many 40k players total, and if I don't have to drive to a tournament for a change and there is a good reward on top of it, I'd rather wait until after the tournament.

No vendettas allowed? That is ridiculous! I would skip that clown ran event.

No Vendettas?

I mean, sure TO's can run their tournaments however they want but come on. That's ridiculous.
So, the TO banned Vendetta's and not doing anything else to other armies? So he hamstrung the IG, since Air-Cav with Vendetta's is one of the last true competitive tournament lists.
Yep, skip it. The work just isn't worth the pay-off.

Now, if you must...alternatives...

For AA: Your best bet at this point is an ADL with Quad. If THATS banned (and if you just have to go, because I would be out at that point), then really AA will come down to trying with a Valk or just shooting a crap ton of Autocannons at it and hope for the best
For AT: Well, massed Lascannons works. But, I have heard good things about Meltatroopers. Or, if you can get it, Meltavets work. Not as good in Chimeras, but you can't take a Vendetta so....

Wait. No conversions allowed in general? That's BS! People don't realize exactly how much you have to convert from every army....anyone using Sternguard? Has to be the KIT Sturn, not converts. Combi-Weapons? Have to be the metal kits from GW. And a whole host of things I can't reasonably list. That's a really stupid rule....again, I would be long gone hahaha

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Hedkrakka wrote:
FW is not allowed, and since you can't make a Vendetta with the Valkyrie kit, that's not allowed either. It's the stupid rule that conversions aren't allowed. Check the army list for more detailed discussion.

Just gonna point this out for you since you could probably use it to your advantage massively; make sure no Space Marine player is playing with combi-weapons, converted Sternguard, Razorbacks with anything other than Heavy Bolters or TLLCs, Storm Shield Librarians, Power Fist Sergeants or anything similar that doesn't have the options "straight out of the box".

Besides, you can build a Vendetta out of the Valkyrie kit; you just require 3 of the kits for each Vendetta, but it's all bits from the Valkyrie box. You get a Lascannon in each, after all. I doubt that the TO(s) are going to listen to that argument, but have it in mind.

Except I've got sarg's with power fists, and a razorback with las/plas. They are just older GW models.

Since the only airforce to really worry about is the IG airforce, I'd just not worry about air defense. Focus on pounding your opponents ground units to dust and just take the hits from their flyers.

-Matt

No units without GW models?

Orks and DE are screwed...

Sounds like a pretty odd event, I'm assuming the guy also doesnt allow non gw models? Does he only carry GW stuff in his store? Is this a poor attempt at getting people to only play with stuff you can buy in the store?

If at all possible purchase a necron army for the event. Many of the Necron kits are the GW site are specifically labeled as one of two possible units, and as a whole the necron codex has very few units that need converting (as options are almost non-existent).

A necron air-force sounds like it would dominate, and you could paint 5 night scythes and 25 warriors without too much effort.

Try walrus's argument and see if he buys it-if not, and you may become unpopular if you do this (warning), I agree with the people who suggest to troll everyone and make sure none of their stuff without options from the GW kit is allowed either

Look if the guy is outlawing vendettas, just tell him to outlaw all fliers or get lost. Obviously this store is not worth your time.

Thanks for the opinions, everybody, but I see very few suggestions on what I should bring. I agree with each and every one of you who points out that the rules are outrageous, but ultimately the reason I brought this up is to get ideas on what to bring. In any case, the warnings are also appreciated.

Washout77, it's not only Vendettas that are banned (any FW model, converted model or anything that cannot be built from GW kits are), but that's what hits IG the hardest, one of the staple, auto-bring, great AA/AT units being gone. Trust me, I wouldn't be going there if the prize wasn't worth it and the entry fee wasn't low.

Dr. What, there aren't many Ork players around here but that's exactly what I fear, along with Necrons. A double Weirdboy, maxed Dakkajet list could blow all the Guardsmen to hell and back.

Iconicsilence, I believe that's exactly what he's trying to do, having taken over the LGS recently. More sales.

Corollax, nice suggestion, but even if I could buy the models, I doubt I can paint up a Necron army in three days.

Thanks to HawaiiMatt, Washout77 and Exhumed for the suggestions. I'll ask about the ADL first thing in the morning, and update the information ASAP.

Yeah... this makes no sense whatsoever. He's outlawing legal codex units simply based on the fact you need a few extra bits to make their models from an existing GW model? What? That's the most arbitrary rule I've ever heard, he might as well ban all models with orange paint, or all players with glasses.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
Yeah... this makes no sense whatsoever. He's outlawing legal codex units simply based on the fact you need a few extra bits to make their models from an existing GW model? What? That's the most arbitrary rule I've ever heard, he might as well ban all models with orange paint, or all players with glasses.

That really made me laugh. Thanks!

Good thing I'll be moving elsewhere soon, the LGS will quickly become unbearable.

What a fethhole of a store owner!

Don't worry, that store won't be around long with idiocy like that.

Why not just take Valks then?

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
What a fuckhole of a store owner!

Don't worry, that store won't be around long with idiocy like that.

Why not just take Valks then?

Simply, my Vendettas aren't magnetized because I never believed I'd ever bring Valks when the Vendetta is available for the same cost. I don't want to break stuff off for just one tournament.

Magnetization isn't just about switching out weapon options. It's also handy for visually presenting weapon destroyed results.

I certainly understand your pain, though.

Hedkrakka wrote:
Iconicsilence, I believe that's exactly what he's trying to do, having taken over the LGS recently. More sales.

Well, that or the TO and/or his friends have figured out a dominating list that works under these rules and are hoping to get people to throw away money on the tournament and give them easy prizes. And I would not be at all surprised to see the "no conversions" rule being selectively enforced in favor of the TO's friends.

Anyway, just skip it. You're probably playing a rigged game, and even if you aren't you should never support stupidity like that. Not going back to the store doesn't help anything since they've already got your money. Tell the TO you won't be there, you won't ever be buying anything from them, and you'll encourage everyone you know to do the same.

 Peregrine wrote:

Hedkrakka wrote:
Iconicsilence, I believe that's exactly what he's trying to do, having taken over the LGS recently. More sales.

Well, that or the TO and/or his friends have figured out a dominating list that works under these rules and are hoping to get people to throw away money on the tournament and give them easy prizes. And I would not be at all surprised to see the "no conversions" rule being selectively enforced in favor of the TO's friends.

Anyway, just skip it. You're probably playing a rigged game, and even if you aren't you should never support stupidity like that. Not going back to the store doesn't help anything since they've already got your money. Tell the TO you won't be there, you won't ever be buying anything from them, and you'll encourage everyone you know to do the same.

That's quite possible, but as far as I know, the guy just arrived here... I don't imagine he has any friends yet, and he plays Orks, the snap fire-happiest army in 40k-You do have a point though. I'll look into it, and if there is such an arrangement, I'm sure my connections are good enough to find out about it. If so, then it's "to hell with the entry fee".

Still, for the possibility that there is no setup and he's just trying to improve sales in a ridiculously stupid way, I need suggestions on what to bring instead.

While I agree with Peregrine's sentiment, I think that may be a little extreme. Certainly take a pass on this tourney, but I don't see this as a reason to burn your bridges of being able to go play pick-up games there, especially if it's the only LGS around. Maybe try, after this one happens, to get a lot of support for dropping that rule at the next tourney, or getting some different people in charge of running it?

My LGS essentially banned me from playing there for having unpainted models, so I know how rough it is to have no place to game. Wouldn't want you to have to go through that over one tourney!

Only your contempt?

Wow, just wow. I don't think that I'd play in an event like this. I would let the TO know honestly what I think about their restrictions. Modeling and converting aspects of the hobby aside, some options simply do not exists at all in the GW range. I really want to know how they are going to enforce this prior to and during the event itself. I wouldn't want to piss off the other players in this event, but I'd find the troll-y-est, GW model only list to make and bring it. Is this TO seriously going to inspect each and every players models to ensure compliance? If I were to try to play within this TO's restrictions, I'd probably take Sisters of Battle. But as IG, I'd go with Russes and a mix of Melta Vets in Chimeras and Platoons on foot. But depending on your IG range you may not even be able to do that. My Steel Legion models certainly don't have any Meltagun models that haven't been converted. Stupid, stupid TO's rules... I would seriously ask what bug up their ass that the TO has to set these restrictions.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
While I agree with Peregrine's sentiment, I think that may be a little extreme. Certainly take a pass on this tourney, but I don't see this as a reason to burn your bridges of being able to go play pick-up games there, especially if it's the only LGS around. Maybe try, after this one happens, to get a lot of support for dropping that rule at the next tourney, or getting some different people in charge of running it?

My LGS essentially banned me from playing there for having unpainted models, so I know how rough it is to have no place to game. Wouldn't want you to have to go through that over one tourney!

Well, I'm moving away from this town soon anyway, and I'm old enough to be patient, so I'm not that much concerned about having no place to game. If worse comes to worst, I can just put the dining table and the study table side by side, break out my own ancient terrain pieces and play at home with friends.

And BTW, if there was a setup, I would never even acknowledge that guy's presence again. Stupid rules are tolerable, deceit isn't. That's the way I see it anyway.

So.

Let's be clear, here, to help. You need to be able to handle the Air Force of Orks, Necrons, Dark Eldar, and any SM variant (Stormravens, Stormtalons). You are taking an IG army.

If you know your local tournament 'meta' to be flyer heavy, then you should consider going "Renegade", and putting some Chaos into your army list. An ADL with a lascannon and some Chaos havoks with Flakk Missiles is about your best, most cost-effective defense. Maybe throw in a Heldrake.

If you're locking yourself into a purist army, then I would suggest spamming whatever Leman Russ variant is good against flyers, maybe some Hydras as backup, plus the ADL/Lascannon.

Remember, in either case, two things:

1) Flyers can't contest/claim objectives. Kill their scoring units, ignore their non-transport flyers.
2) Put a BS4 squad on the ADL for maximum effectiveness.

Finally, I would like to second the advice of a previous poster. If you see *ANY* conversions that are not possible 'out of the box' (and the poster listed a TON of them), you get a refund of your entry fee, and walk away.

Good luck.

--Brian

 Briancj wrote:
So.

Let's be clear, here, to help. You need to be able to handle the Air Force of Orks, Necrons, Dark Eldar, and any SM variant (Stormravens, Stormtalons). You are taking an IG army.

If you know your local tournament 'meta' to be flyer heavy, then you should consider going "Renegade", and putting some Chaos into your army list. An ADL with a lascannon and some Chaos havoks with Flakk Missiles is about your best, most cost-effective defense. Maybe throw in a Heldrake.

If you're locking yourself into a purist army, then I would suggest spamming whatever Leman Russ variant is good against flyers, maybe some Hydras as backup, plus the ADL/Lascannon.

Remember, in either case, two things:

1) Flyers can't contest/claim objectives.
2) Put a BS4 squad on the ADL for maximum effectiveness.

Finally, I would like to second the advice of a previous poster. If you see *ANY* conversions that is not possible 'out of the box' (and the poster listed a TON of them), you get a refund of your entry fee, and walk away.

Good luck.

--Brian

I'm not quite locking myself into a purist army, the TO is. Allies aren't allowed either. I'd dish out my Emperor's Children, but I'll stick to IG this time.
Hydras are either FW or conversions, so no Hydras for me. I'll try Exterminators, I guess.
Don't worry about DE, I'm the only DE player in the area. SM players don't tend to bring Fliers a lot, but Orks and Necrons are a problem.