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Some of the things about what made it better a long time ago are a little subjective.

When I first started playing around 2009, I read a lot here about how "WD used to be great". I ordered a stack of old issues off of ebay. I'm at work so I can't provide exact issue numbers, but one of them had the Vehicle Design Rules and google tells me that was 251, and I recognize the cover, so I have about 10 issues in that range.

I don't have any nostalgia for this product because I had never read a single issue of it, ever, in any form, until they arrived. I don't have a FLGS so I never so much as flipped through one.

By my money, they were wildly better back then .One of them was some kind of Tyranid launch issue, and yes, it did focus on the new product, but it only showed the models for a few pages - 2 or 3, maybe. The rest of it was all kinds of stuff. I remember there was a short story (I've since read it elsewhere) about a tyranid invasion happening from the eyes of the IG on the ground (spoiler, they were eaten). There were about 3 pages showing you how to make terrain - I remember 2 separate pieces as being fascinating, one was making these weird alien columns out of pink foam and the tools you needed. The other was a bio-digestion pool made of styrofoam that they had sprayed with clear primer to partially melt it in an interesting way. In a different issue, they show you how to make a bunker out of cardboard, foam, and plaster that looked pretty good even by our standards, as well as how to make burnt trees out of lengths of floral wire and paper mache. One of the issues gave you rules for how to build any vehicle you wanted, and gave calculations and formulas for how to outfit them and point them out. Another was for the release of the Land Raider, and it was spread out over 2 issues - the first one spent a long time showing how the company actually built the tank (I mean, like, out of wood and stuff! - the one they used for the mold) and then walked you though how to assemble your own and primed it black. The next issue had about 6 pages picking it up from there and showing you a detailed walkthough of taking it from primed black into several different common chapters, along with (again) a pretty cool story about a Crimson Fist Land Raider that went on a total rampage, solo, after their monastery was destroyed and it got turned on. Pretty neat.

I wound up getting a single issue of WD from The Warstore on my next order. As chance would have it, the IG plastic kits for 5th were announced in this one. In the middle of the issue was the most fascinating scenario, where there is a group of IG stranded and waiting for a Valkyrie to come evacuate them. On turn 3 or so, they start rolling for the valk to arrive (it has to idle for a turn, and the rolls get easier, it's like a 6 on turn 3, 4 on turn 4, something like that). The whole while, Necrons roll 2d6 each turn and spawn more and more reinforcements. I was capitivated! What the hell are these guys talking about, these are awesome. I subscribed that day.

As it turns off, that was a total one-off issue. While I appreciated that my subscription was weirdly 15 issues instead of 12, the issues themselves were, by and large, crap. Mostly content free advertisements of the sort to which has been described ad nauseum. The only terrain "tutorials" I saw were defiling the imperial statues they sold for chaos (by adding more product) and making a tower of sorcery thing taller (by buying another tower of sorcery and stacking them together). All of the builds were of that sort, there were no scenarios or cool stuff. So far as special rules, instead of those super interesting vehicle design rules that were in a previous issue, there was only a partial Sisters codex that seemed very, very pared down. There were occasionally the short lore stories but they were much less common and a lot shorter, and as you posted earlier, in larger text. I was very, very disappointed and did not renew my subscription after it expired.

This Thanksgiving, I got a mondo bitz box from the Warstore. It wound up having a copy of the "new" WD, the Chaos one. It was the same as the others, generally devoid of content, and so forth as has been described here earlier.


TL;DR - the 2007 issues had an average of 14 pages of product description, the 2012 ones had an average of 54.6 while the magazine only added 10% more pages. That speaks for itself.

I think to an extent the problems with WD are 'self inflicted' - and no matter how good the journalists onboard, would still make very poor reading simply because of the extremely narrow parameters Games Workshop itself operates within these days.
- The 'Games' bit of the company name is a bit of a stretch in 2013, certainly compared to the 80's and 90's. We have 40k, WFB and LoTR now, and that's it. The writers from the era when the magazine was genuinely regarded as 'good' had a lot more material to go from; Necromunda, Mordheim, Epic, plus a slew of others. It was very easy for them to vary things up and keep it interesting.
- Absolutely nothing in the way of painting or terrain making. The prospect of a land speeder made from a deodarant bottle, or some kind of conversion plan for another plastic kit, is so unlikely that I would be less surprised if I opened WD to find an image of a mass of £50 notes wedged into Tom Kirby's bottom.
- A conscious understanding of how much GW costs these days. 'A tale of 4 gamers' without the expenditure list knocks the soul out of it.

 Ouze wrote:
Some of the things about what made it better a long time ago are a little subjective.
Snip ...

Great post, main thing i took from it?? ...... people don't use the word mondo enough anymore

 AegisGrimm wrote:

-some rare issues came bagged with promo models. Like the issue about Assault on Black Reach (though that was after issue 300 if I remember right) coming with a free Nob and a Terminator.

I have a metal Gargoyle, SoB, and Necron warrior. All released a bit before AoBR. The Necron came in 217 I think.

 Byte wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:

-some rare issues came bagged with promo models. Like the issue about Assault on Black Reach (though that was after issue 300 if I remember right) coming with a free Nob and a Terminator.

I have a metal Gargoyle, SoB, and Necron warrior. All released a bit before AoBR. The Necron came in 217 I think.

And lets not forget Aneur Sword of Twilight, when Mordheim was released. Think i've still got 2 or 3 of those around somewhere and i've painted 2.

Actually i think one of my favourite freebies from a WD was the battle tracker (issue 210 or 211?) it had undead on the front. It was a stoater!

Also the posters were great back then, cut away drawings of space marine vehicles and the like....

I forgot all the additional material for Specialist Games White Dwarf used to have.

And yeah, I remember how Tale of Four gamers gave them a set amount they could spend each session to expand their armies, and in each guy's article they usually gave tips on how they stretched that out by making conversions, or trading and the like.

The good White Dwarfs frankly, were from a time when GW was conscious that we all wanted to have tons of fun playing their games, and being part of a larger group doing it, rather than just consumers for their product. they honestly wanted us to have fun, and worked hard toward that goal..

 DiabolicAl wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:

-some rare issues came bagged with promo models. Like the issue about Assault on Black Reach (though that was after issue 300 if I remember right) coming with a free Nob and a Terminator.

I have a metal Gargoyle, SoB, and Necron warrior. All released a bit before AoBR. The Necron came in 217 I think.

And lets not forget Aneur Sword of Twilight, when Mordheim was released. Think i've still got 2 or 3 of those around somewhere and i've painted 2.

Yup, I'll never forget mine. As some little scrote nicked it when having my intro game of Mordheim... Staff didn't replace it either.

 Pacific wrote:

- A conscious understanding of how much GW costs these days. 'A tale of 4 gamers' without the expenditure list knocks the soul out of it.

It makes it fake.

I still have my WDs with the original "A Tale of 4 Gamers." Really solid.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
White Dwarf issues up to #300 were far and above better than they are now.

-Full mini-boardgames like Brewhouse Bash and Dark Eldar pit-fighting, and expansions to Warhammer Quest and Blood Bowl being included freely.

-punch-out cardstock terrain

-some rare issues came bagged with promo models. Like the issue about Assault on Black Reach (though that was after issue 300 if I remember right) coming with a free Nob and a Terminator.

-a much more friendly writing style, with Tale of Four gamers, fan-letters, Chapter Approved articles for zany things(Kroot Merc and Feral Ork armies!!), etc.

-Used to be terrain articles didn't just act as sales articles telling you to buy four of a given GW terrain kit. They told you alternate sources to get materials, and how to use such materials. Sometimes even templates to make buildings from.

-Kill Team and the "40K in 40 minutes" rules came from White Dwarf, as well as the VDR rules

Agreed, White Dwarf 300 is by far my most favorite white dwarf to date. Mostly due to the campagin stuff and the movie marines, and everything else in it was just epic.

It went into making your own scenery, your own rules, your own scratch builds, adeptus custodes, every single thing you could want as a marine player to decrease cost on your marines. It actually had tips TO SAVE money for products. And good bundles like the razorback bundle (50$) including a tactical squad but with no sarge. (strangely)

White Dwarf and GW were better and cheaper back then, probably due to really bad management.

They don't really sell products as well. I past the gw store on fridays and saturdays only like five people even at their major events. Kinda sad really.

 Byte wrote:
I still have the original metal gargoyle, SoB, and Necron warrior from the WD releases. Yes, they used to include one preview model with your WD.

Metal Gargoyle? Sister of Battle?

I've got the metal Necron (still in his blister, as it happens)... but I don't remember the other two.

 scarletsquig wrote:
The quality of the content is the thing that has gone downhill. I used to be able to spend several evenings reading a WD since it was crammed full of text and really interesting stuff. Now it's barely good for half an hour.

Yeah, I have a few white dwarfs from back in the Gorkamorka days (15 years ago). You could read them for hours on end, so much more depth and more content.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Byte wrote:
I still have the original metal gargoyle, SoB, and Necron warrior from the WD releases. Yes, they used to include one preview model with your WD.

Metal Gargoyle? Sister of Battle?

I've got the metal Necron (still in his blister, as it happens)... but I don't remember the other two.

Maybe a US thing? Metal figures I recall were the Necrons and the Mordheim elf, there were done plastic like the dark eldar when 3rd ed was released, and a few cruder plastics when 2nd ed was out. When Sidters of Battle were first released in #212 we got a card model of a ruined shrine, the following issue have you a watch tower for gorkamorka, that was great.

Take of Four Gamers wouldn't be the same now, they were trying to demonstrate gaming on a reasonable budget. In one issue they went to the new year sales, which rather dates the articles now. They wouldn't put a cost break down on a similar article today because it wouldn't be a good advert for them as the horror of the full cost of their hobby is laid out.

I remember getting a plastic Berzerker when that first came out (not the current Berzerkers, the ones before the current kit). And I still have two plastic Brettonian Bowmen from when 5th Ed (I think) Warhammer Fantasy came out.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I forgot all the additional material for Specialist Games White Dwarf used to have.

And yeah, I remember how Tale of Four gamers gave them a set amount they could spend each session to expand their armies, and in each guy's article they usually gave tips on how they stretched that out by making conversions, or trading and the like.

The good White Dwarfs frankly, were from a time when GW was conscious that we all wanted to have tons of fun playing their games, and being part of a larger group doing it, rather than just consumers for their product. they honestly wanted us to have fun, and worked hard toward that goal..

Yeah those were good old days when its was fun first and money second. Now they are more like a terrible hybrid of Jehovah witnesses and sleazy car salesmen. They've become so dishonest over the years it isnt even funny at this point, and instead of fixing it they just say "meh you, pay me" as if we did something to anger them.
.

It definitely seemed better 5 years ago. I'm not quite sure if this is just the small part of 16 year old me looking back through rose tinted glasses or not. From my days of buying WD, my favourite issue is from around the time The Two Towers came out. It had Eomer on the front, but I didn't really care about the LotR stuff. Inside there was the coolest Slaanesh army in bronze and tan colours, with a unit of possessed based on famous horror characters, Jason, Freddie Kreuger, Hannibal Lector etc etc. I guess I just miss the days when they actually cared what their customers were doing, and seemed to take an interest. I mean, they don't even have a section you can write in anymore, do they?

Don't forget the issue that came with a free Codex: Assassins.

My Aenur is still serving proud as an Eldar Pathfinder.

 Kroothawk wrote:


And I don't believe that the presentation/list of GW stores was always as excessive as now, with 10 pages list plus 2-6 pages store presentation.

The thing is the data shows that store listing (and associated gumph) is not any larger than average for the period covered.

Mean average store list newest 3 = 13.7 pages
Mean average store list in 2010 = 18.3
Mean average store list in 2007 = 10.7
Mean average store list in 2000 = 8

Mean average for dataset = 13.1

It was much longer 2.5 years ago (but roughly a third more than in 2007) but represents the average over the last 12 years (ok that last statement may be a bit more than the sample would allow me to say, but sod it, if somebody wants to prove me wrong they can get the dataset)

I am not going to say it was 'better' but during 40k 3rd edition White Dwarf was 'relevant' because they were releasing official rules almost monthly in the magazine. So you often had to buy WD to get your rules. They did compile it all into Chapter Approved, but for a solid 2-3 years, every month was a new set of trial rules or official rules which made those magazines more required than normal.

When Chapter approved went away and rules stopped appearing in WD, so did the need for people to buy them. the only WDs I have bought recently were the ones with Ork units rules which I needed. (stompa VDR rules and ork Jets)

The peak of WD Imo was the Index Astartes period (~2001-2004). Perhaps that's just because I'm always a fluff-first guy though. GW was releasing new, important (key word here), dynamic, and interesting fluff on a monthly basis through the magazine.

One major problem that WD has in these threads is that it's been different things at different times. That makes it easy for people to agree that it's "not as good as it used to be." But people likely wouldn't agree about which era was best.

One thing no one has mentioned that at least applied in the US (not sure about other countries) is that your subscription not only got you a discounted price per issue but also gave you a $10 off coupon for bits orders over $25; I doubt I would have ever placed a bits order without that coupon and they hooked me in for additional orders every year beyond the one I got discounted.

It seemed like GW viewed the magazine a bit as a loss leader or at least not just a catalog excuse to collect money from the die hard fans. Cardboard terrain or other cool inserts like posters twice a year, occasional minis, intro games (like the cardboard BFG they had).. etc added actual objective physical value to what you got in addition to the extra percieved subjective value from new rules, terrain guides, and detailed battle reports.

WD has gone through several phases. I, being ancient, remember when it was a TRADE magazine, and covered non-GW products.

At some point (I do not know which issue) it became a purely in-house magazine that was designed to support GW. Loaded up with 'freebies' designed to support your gaming, and get you excited about the GW hobby. Free minis, free rules (which would make you want to buy the game), it was a showcase for Games Workshop, and it did it well.

The 'Fat Bloke' era was the slide into corporate hell. He tried, hard, to hold the magazine to the standards *HE* grew up with, but you can see the corporate pressure, as well as the ending of the "Loss Leader" attitude. The magazine had to slash costs. Less inserts. Less articles. More product display.

Finally, we reach the 'Relaunch' era. No issue numbers. Just "White Dwarf". Everything slick and shiny to attract the eye. 50% or more of the magazine is product advertising (and, yes, the "Painting" articles are nothing but product advertising). Articles are low-word-count-large-font 'teasers'. And the rejected articles are bound up and sold as a separate book (Campaign of Fire, anyone?).

What amuses me the most is that it does not have any appeal for the "Pure Hobbyist" or the "Pure Gamer". No terrain articles, no fluffy batreps, no tactical discussions, and no new rules. (Note: I'm aware that they're going to republish the rulesets from "Campaign of Fire" into WD. Doesn't count, becuase they've been published elsewhere, already and thusly not a compelling reason to buy WD.)

No, the current rag is purely a monthly product catalog.

But at least they're pimpin' Forge World now!

gorgon wrote:
One major problem that WD has in these threads is that it's been different things at different times. That makes it easy for people to agree that it's "not as good as it used to be." But people likely wouldn't agree about which era was best.

That's why I've attempted to put some objectivity in to the discussion. The content types give some indication of the "type" of magazine so that people can agree on/argue about the actual content make up rather than just say, for the umpteenth time "It was better five years ago, it was less of a advert...."

White Dwarf used to have huge amounts of fluff in it compared to now, little short stories usually about a particular battle, its been a while but if memory serves a few used to be a few pages long. I miss that.
The only fluff we get now is on the new releases explaining why the current FOTM is the best thing ever and you better go buy it next week.

The funny thing is that we've complained about WD not having rules in it. Then, when they do have rules, we complain and say that they shouldn't have put the rules in WD!

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
The funny thing is that we've complained about WD not having rules in it. Then, when they do have rules, we complain and say that they shouldn't have put the rules in WD!

When people complain about that aspect, they're complaining about how the issues sell out. If they know they're going to throw out the yearly bone with some cool new rules, they should significantly increase the print run for that issue and follow that up with either free downloads of the rules on the website and/or a timely compilation book. People don't complain that the rules are in WD... they're complaining that they can't get the rules due to apparently poor planning. I don't own any SOB but I would have considered buying the issues on the chance that I might in the future... but they sold out locally both months within a week (and before I could get to the store).

Fair point.

 Briancj wrote:
WD has gone through several phases. I, being ancient, remember when it was a TRADE magazine, and covered non-GW products.

I also am ancient, and used to buy the magazine as a kid in the 80s and teenager in the 90s. It had a huge variety of artices for other games and fantasy related stuff. (It introduced me to the Discworld novels with a special article and excerpts, and had D&D, Cthulhu, Paranoia etc.) They also had a lot of interesting stuff for the Warhammer world too obviously. Warhammer FRP adventures and extras for Fantasy Battle etc.
It was sad to see this disappear and it become focussed solely on GW products, but at least for a while they were creating interesting extras, supplemental material, short stories to add further depth to the gameworlds and extra little bits of fun to the games.

Unfortunately, as has been stated, when I pick it up now, it is just an extended product list with glossy pictures.
I would occasionally pick one up, but don't see the point now, as if I want to see the range of figures I can just browse the website.

Since doing this I've since read the last two dwarves and I think they are actually getting back to a mark where I enjoy reading it. The last issue contained both players armies as well as discussion about them and the techniques used.

The Bat rep used the player's own armies, the Golden daemon photography was, in my opinion, great.

I may, if I can be bothered redo my comparison with the most recent mags.

I bought one for the first time in a few years.

Basically a catalogue minimum creative writing or anything of interest