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*prepares for incoming why the hell would bushes or smoke make a Thermal Optical, basically invisible, guy harder to hit rant*

not like I have heard that one a few times or anything

Well we rationalized that if there is a counter moving on the board, some detection was possible. Ergo, and since that's what it was used for, flamers should be able to flush out buildings and people trying to hide.

But it's not the rules, I won't fight it.

Well, flamers are good for rooting out camo'd troops because you get to do Intuitive Attacks which get no minus to shooting... and I think that Flamers ignore cover, though I might be mistaken on that one.

 BlueDagger wrote:
*prepares for incoming why the hell would bushes or smoke make a Thermal Optical, basically invisible, guy harder to hit rant*

not like I have heard that one a few times or anything

Predator.

That's how I always think of TO camo. Invisible, but with a sort of distorsion effect. So things like bushes and smoke futher blur the distorsion.

FFS, now I want to buy a few Predator figs for Infinity again.

 The CF wrote:
Well, flamers are good for rooting out camo'd troops because you get to do Intuitive Attacks which get no minus to shooting... and I think that Flamers ignore cover, though I might be mistaken on that one.

Nope they don't ignore cover

 BlueDagger wrote:

 The CF wrote:
Well, flamers are good for rooting out camo'd troops because you get to do Intuitive Attacks which get no minus to shooting... and I think that Flamers ignore cover, though I might be mistaken on that one.

Nope they don't ignore cover

Alright, good to know. I've never really had to look it up, so I just had something in my mind telling me flamers ignore cover.
I guess it's the ghost of wargames past.

I did that as well. Got totally confused when someone added cover to their armour versus my flamethrower shot - had to remember that this wasn't 40k. Felt vaguely cheated.

The big perk of template weapons vs normal shots is that enemy models don't block LoF for them. It makes for some juicy kill streaks when you line up a great shotgun shot against a row of guys behind a wall and some can't fire back because his buddies are in the way.

That's how I lost my army during my first demo game.

I bunched up my people behind hard cover. A single grey uses all the orders to cross the table and literally annihilate 6 models with his remaining shoot action.

Go back to whomever Demoed the game to you, and slap the piss outta them lol. That is an example of how NOT to demo the game lol.

Well, it had the upside of being a 7 minutes demo game. Very effective, if not entirely heartening.

Nah, im with BlueDagger, thats not how a demo game is meant to go....

saying that, it looks like it had the reverse effect from what you would expect (as in you are now motivated to get your own back, or so it appears) so its not all bad i guess...

I ran a complete noob to Infinity through a demo game a few days ago (his mate plays it and he was interested).

Took us about an hour with two starter boxes. 4 LI, one HI, and a skirmish/infiltrator. Covered movement, ranged combat AND close combat as well as camouflage and how it relates with the rules (combat camo, etc).

He enjoyed it, and even though he got wiped out, he held his own for a turn or two (went to four turns). It's not that I pulled punches, but I don't really need to "win" against noobs that badly compared to teaching them the game.

When I got demoed Malifaux, the guy showing my how it worked would carefully 'feed' me models, allowing me to try ganging up on them and using spells to attack them, while not trying that hard to kill my models. It was about perfect for a demo, I think: I got to try out many of the rules for myself, felt good about my ability to handle the mechanics, and had the feeling that I could take my time over it.

In comparison, whenever I try to show people Android: Netrunner, it is a bit of a nightmare. Such a tense and adversarial game, combined with the total secrecy so I can't do sub-optimal actions easily, it is proving really hard for me to 'go easy' on them.

My friend and I have a good natured sense of friendly competition ever since I set up a scenario on the loose and he was being blasted... until he teleported right next to the summoning circle with his termies and destroyed the greater daemon in a single turn of CC. He feels I need to know how it felt to be the underdog.

Compared to another friend, who is purely WAAC and keeps complaining that the rules don't allow him to cheat (ie do what he wants to win), I'd rather have him anyday.

Gah I don't envy your choices there lol.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
[...] another friend, who is purely WAAC and keeps complaining that the rules don't allow him to cheat (ie do what he wants to win) [...].

Tell him to play ALEPH and he'll feel right at home.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Compared to another friend, who is purely WAAC and keeps complaining that the rules don't allow him to cheat (ie do what he wants to win), I'd rather have him anyday.

We had a friend like that in 3rd edition 40k. Our solution was twofold - call him on any and all things he did to cheat. Measure from the front of the base to the back of the base for movement? Measure from the barrel of his guns instead of the models base? Little gak like that. The other part was we learned the rules so well we learned loopholes he didn't know about. So we used them against him. When he called us on it, we merely pointed out the relevant parts in the rulebook. Rules as written.

Eventually he stopped cheating and we stopped expoiting ridiculous RAW loopholes, and all became better. Not good - he became a rules lawyering feth, but better. At least he wasn't cheating.

What ever you do though, never encourage someone to use a RAW 40k mentality in Infinity. It ends badly.

Yes, the rules can be obtuse at times.

The WAAC friend will never play Infinity. Not enough people in our circle actually paints (I'm the only consistent one), and he can't get the minis for cheap on eBay. So no ALEPH from him, thankfully.

His favourite excuse has been "it's in the codex, I just don't have it with me." My favourite answer: "well you don't get it then." The cheating I think about is this kind of situation:

1)I should be able to shoot you even in melee with my guardsmen, they,re just guardsmen.

2)Since they are essentially flashlights, guardsmen should be able to sprint and shoot.

3)It makes no sense to give only a single order per squad per turn, They have to have had better training before combat.

4)My skimmer (which gets 3+ cover save from jink and disruption pods) ought to give the same cover to troops behind it. Or close to behind it, otherwise what's the point of a 3+ cover on the vehicle?

5)The only time I showed him Infinity, he argued that he didn't have to go for the objective, he could just wait with his sniper in sight of it and "starve" my models out. So he'd won.

Needless to say, he doesn't get that playing him isn't fun, so I make the dumbest lists against him and lose in record time, so I have plenty of time for other stuff.

Argh! I wouldn´t even play against a guy like this. I really hate cheating at all and it makes me really angry. This is just time waisting and fun destroying sh... to play against these guys. We often have rule questions but we solve them quickly to get playing again. One of my best friends is one of the best players I know. And I mean that in every f...ing game we play. He is something like a tactic monster. But I think this is fun: you know your enemy is good in playing not cheating makes every win against him more precious. If you loose you learn something about the game you play. Cheating is destroying the game for everybody, you will win perhaps but it´s worthless and there´s no sportsmanship in it at all. And you won´t make any friends with it either.

In the last years I often played cometitions in Germany (Warmachine and Warhammer) and I met some real great guys who stomped me to the ground. I´m more the fun gamer, I like painting and building terrain and so on. But I also saw a 30 year old gamer cheating a 13 year old in his first competition. Shame on people like that.

Yeah, when I used to do the tournament rounds, I would bring my own fold-a-chair with footrest and let the other player walk around the table all he wanted, laidback and all. Mind you, Tzeetch Chaos back then was a very straightforward build, so I didn't have to futz around and worry about every model I lost.

But him... gahh. And he is totally oblivious. He can't even understand why someone would build a suboptimal list And keeps insisting he should build both lists.

At least my other friends are great. But everyone dreads playing him.

So when are we getting a game ? =P
Im about to finish the layout for an awesome gaming table =)

When are you available next week? I have my evenings off except Thursday. Yes, I am Dakka-ing at work. So me, I co-own the place!

Any evening except Thursday sounds good =P

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Yeah, when I used to do the tournament rounds, I would bring my own fold-a-chair with footrest and let the other player walk around the table all he wanted, laidback and all. Mind you, Tzeetch Chaos back then was a very straightforward build, so I didn't have to futz around and worry about every model I lost.

But him... gahh. And he is totally oblivious. He can't even understand why someone would build a suboptimal list And keeps insisting he should build both lists.

At least my other friends are great. But everyone dreads playing him.

Honestly, im with medusa here, i wouldnt want to be anywhere near him...but if he wants to build both lists, let him and then let him play himself (with his own models), that way he wins no matter what happens and he is only cheating himself....

Lundi ou Mardi? Your choice.

Monday sounds good to me

Good, I still have your address. I finish school at, max, 15h40. So I can be at your place around 16h30.

We'll be waithing to hear of your battle(s)