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Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
I have always imagined them as not being any real color at all, just a flash of white that burns into your retinas as an after image. You never ever "see" the shot.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
If you look closely, Stormtrooper armour hit by a blaster bolt in the movies should have a smoking scorchmark, as do the surroundings that catch a few shots. One might argue this is just because of the physical fireworks that were used for the FX, but it fits the technical details of the weapon nicely.
Watch the Trooper at 1:45 get shot in the chest:
That being said, it's still a bad comparison. Star Wars blasters are actually plasma-based weapons, as they operate with supercharged Tibanna-gas propelled by a magnetic coupler.
/nerd
As for 40k lasgun colours, so far I have seen the colours blue (Final Liberation, FFG cover art), red (Dawn of War) and yellow (GW cover art) in official material. If you want, it can be colourless just as much - although I will point out that some sources note how the long las has a "flash suppressor" to better conceal the sniper.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/13 08:55:23
Does anyone else think it odd how in all the years 40K's been around no GW book has had a detailed, technical drawing of a lasgun's workings?
I guess it's so they're not tied-down to any one perticular idea when it comes to how they work. They can just go; it depends on the pattern and model, and ultimately your own imagination.
An Armour Save? No, never heard of it. Me? I play Imperial Guard.
Well, we've had a bolter cross-section in the 3E rulebook, a Marine power armour one in Rogue Trader, and iirc they've also put out a Landraider one in a White Dwarf (showing that its "Machine Spirit" is actually a human brain hardwired into the vehicle).
I think a lasgun one would have just been a matter of time - except that during the last years, GW seems to have changed their direction a bit in this regard, moving away from fluff details and leaving more things open for interpretation, perhaps in part to leave more room for the fans to make up their own minds, in part to minimise contradictions between GW books and licensed sources (so that the latter mostly contradict each other rather than studio material)?
I mean, I just noticed how we've been fed less and less hard numbers (SoB membership, Marine power armour injury prevention chance, IG regiment sizes, ...) and facts with every Codex ... although the 6E rulebook looks like a welcome change of pace, "resurrecting" much old fluff from around 2E. Maybe they have reconsidered?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/13 09:04:41
Lasgun fluff has changed a bit over time, too. They used to be single shot only - which given the accuracy is fair enough - with a rate of fire a bit below 30 rounds/minute. Which as someone (Scott-S6, I think) pointed out to me is significantly slower than you can pull a trigger. In some ways this makes it a dreadful weapon.
Now some Lasgun varients, Necromunda pattern certainly, can go over to full auto and act more like a modern assault rifle than a Boxer-Henry...
Lynata wrote: Well, we've had a bolter cross-section in the 3E rulebook, a Marine power armour one in Rogue Trader, and iirc they've also put out a Landraider one in a White Dwarf (showing that its "Machine Spirit" is actually a human brain hardwired into the vehicle).
I think a lasgun one would have just been a matter of time - except that during the last years, GW seems to have changed their direction a bit in this regard, moving away from fluff details and leaving more things open for interpretation, perhaps in part to leave more room for the fans to make up their own minds, in part to minimise contradictions between GW books and licensed sources (so that the latter mostly contradict each other rather than studio material)?
I mean, I just noticed how we've been fed less and less hard numbers (SoB membership, Marine power armour injury prevention chance, IG regiment sizes, ...) and facts with every Codex ... although the 6E rulebook looks like a welcome change of pace, "resurrecting" much old fluff from around 2E. Maybe they have reconsidered?
More likely is that GW is more akin to a force of nature than anything resembling a sensical company.
Graphite wrote: Lasgun fluff has changed a bit over time, too. They used to be single shot only - which given the accuracy is fair enough - with a rate of fire a bit below 30 rounds/minute. Which as someone (Scott-S6, I think) pointed out to me is significantly slower than you can pull a trigger. In some ways this makes it a dreadful weapon.
Now some Lasgun varients, Necromunda pattern certainly, can go over to full auto and act more like a modern assault rifle than a Boxer-Henry...
I think that can be explained by saying that one shot every two seconds is due to the shot being 'supercharged' and will deal much more damage, but if it fires fully automatically then each shot will have less stopping power.
Can't really call its ammo system a clip, or a mag, its more of a rechargeable battery, so Cell would be a better term, and a awesome way to support troops in the field, be funny to model some astartes that have been on campaign away from standard supplies to be using lasguns .
As a complete nerd I ordered the Munitorum dice set from GW last year. This dice set actually comes inside a Lasgun "clip".
It says:
LASGUN POWER PACK
CAPACITY: 97-166 DISCHARGES
RANGE RATING: 19 MEGATHULES*
DEPARTMENTO MUNITORUM ISSUE
ORIGIN: MARS *CONFIRM COMPATIBILITY WITH TECHPRIEST PRIOR TO USING THIS POWER PACK
It doesn't really say anything (howmuch is a megathule, anyone know?), but does confirm the adjustable wavelength/power setting thing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/13 17:17:45
Well ... there's nothing to "confirm" as, true to 40k fluff from multiple sources, all the books tell something different, depending on the author that wrote them.
Looking at the Inquisitor rules and the newest Guard Codex, for example, the power setting is unique to the Triplex - likewise, the increased rate of fire of a Necromunda-pattern lasgun does not affect the damage output per shot (compared to the standard Mars-pattern rifle) but merely how fast the charge pack is drained.
Just pick whatever you think is coolest, or whichever origin of fluff you generally prefer.
TheLionOfTheForest wrote:The starwars blasters leave a scorch mark but no hole.
Because they didn't dare strap explosives to the actors chest that blew a hole in the armour? Please.
The blasts blow chunks outta the walls and make snow explode - and people wouldn't die if the shot would just leave a scorch mark, that's enough for me.
BlaxicanX wrote:More likely is that GW is more akin to a force of nature than anything resembling a sensical company.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Its the same stats given by the Munitorium Manuel so it is what GW itself says lasgun powerpacks operate at.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
They also have single shot "laslocks" that operate like bolt action rifles. Worrying about consistency from GW is just going to leave you shaking your head.
Remember when bolter shells had "a deuterium tipped core"? Thats hydrogen with an extra neutron, aka the 2nd lightest element in existence. They're really terrible with numbers to be honest.
Grey Templar wrote:Its the same stats given by the Munitorium Manuel so it is what GW itself says lasgun powerpacks operate at.
Black Library books are not exactly "GW says [...]" ...
... although I do recall having read about the 19 megathules in some rulebook or Codex, too. Probably one of the few things never contradicted anywhere, likely just because no other author bothered to come up with something else just for the heck of it.
DutchKillsRambo wrote:They also have single shot "laslocks" that operate like bolt action rifles. Worrying about consistency from GW is just going to leave you shaking your head.
Remember when bolter shells had "a deuterium tipped core"? Thats hydrogen with an extra neutron, aka the 2nd lightest element in existence. They're really terrible with numbers to be honest.
I think the deuterium thing (and actually it was "depleted deuterium core" - the tip is diamantine) never changed, at least in Codex fluff. I've heard fan-explanations ranging from "condensed ice would have a huge density" to "in the 41st millennium this actually means something different than today", but I guess it's safe to say that the original author just screwed up.
One-shot laslocks on the other hand I could see no problem with. You could say that one battery = one shot, for example, so that you need to "reload" for every blast? This is no consistency issue at all, given that GW fluff itself mentions a certain variety in las weapons as far as details are concerned. Consistency becomes a problem as soon as licensed products claim that specific patterns do something else or that lasguns shouldn't be able to punch through Marine armour etc.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2013/02/13 18:59:40
Anyway, a laser is a beam of light, StarWars blasters are plasma weapons, as they project a magnetised bolt, not a laser.
I must admit, one thing I hate is the inconsistency in Black Library. In some novels you can't punch through Astartes armour with anything smaller then a shaped charge missile; so it's highly unlikely a lasgun would do anything, and in some novels you can shoot off chunks of power armour with a stub pistol, and one shot from a bolter.
Flak armour seems to do naff-all, too. Why do they even wear it, lol. Anti-shrapnel, maybe?
An Armour Save? No, never heard of it. Me? I play Imperial Guard.
Exactly.. Blast damage. But it will help against some crude balistic weapons..... like lasguns.
Guard Flak will do a job against most small arms they will encounter, but when you start going up against Eldar, Bolters etc Then the poor old guardsmens in way above his head.
"Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponents fate."
Sun Tzu
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Laslocks power the laser emission by consuming a chemical charge and converting the energy into pulsed focused light.
Lasguns can cause burns because the focusing mechanism may not be correctly calibrated, causing the beam to be slightly out of focus and scorching the surrounding area with a much lower power pulse, while still having enough energy in the target area to cause the material to vaporize.
Lasguns have limited range in atmosphere due to absorption and deflection of energy due to dust and gasses between the target and emitter. Extremely long range lasers in use today measure and compensate for these atmospheric effects in order to achieve the range. Lasguns generally don't have a complex machine spirit and secondary lasers to perform said adjustments.
Reflective coatings to defeat laser based weapons would have to be spotless to be effective. Look at all those dirty IG tanks, and ask yourself if any army in the 40k universe could keep things clean enough?
Las weapons are lighter, carry more ammo, are far more reliable, don't require compensation for bullet drop, wind or time in flight, and have equivalent damage to conventional slug guns.
Why would you ever take a slug thrower over a lasgun?
Also, just a theory: Lasguns beam would just be a harmless, low power laser pointer to allow those untrained guardsmen to better get their weapons on target, followed by a millisecond invisible pulse or series of pulses at the end that delivers all the energy at once.
This allows the internal computer to get the range, focus correctly, dump more energy into a single damaging shot, and preserve battery power from missed rounds. All without any need for the operator to think about it or even understand how it works.
Although, if a guardsmen did understand it he could pick up a few grox burgers with some well timed lasgun tricks
TheLionOfTheForest wrote:If they are more akin to plasma weaponry, then again they would melt a hole right through a storm trooper.
No, that would depend upon the exact temperature of the plasma and the size of the bolt, possibly amongst other factors. I mean, police is field-testing a plasma-based stun gun in the real world, and the pulsed energy projectile weapon in development also mentions "exploding plasma" as part of its stun effects. Might be overkill if it melts the target, although it would surely push crime rate down.
Tower75 wrote:Flak armour seems to do naff-all, too. Why do they even wear it, lol. Anti-shrapnel, maybe?
It could be intended more against various native cultures and their low-tech weapons rather than what the Imperium fields. Part of the grim darkness in the 41st millennium is that weapons technology is much more destructive than armour technology is protective, as (at least in GW's fluff) even a Marine's power armour only offers a ~15% chance of preventing injury from a "mere" lasgun.
By itself, IG flak is actually supposed to be fairly good and made from advanced materials (from what I recall in the Wargear book and RT description; I can look up the quote in case you're interested) ... it's just that it doesn't offer much against the impressive armaments that the Emperor's enemies bring to the table in your average game of 40k. This is what leads so many people to talk about "cardboard armour and flashlights", when it's really just a question of what you are comparing it to.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/13 23:20:06
I just had another thought about the observed colour of the las beam.
It could just be secondary/tertiary/etc... harmonics of the laser pulse. These come from the way the laser light is produced but the laser output can be tuned using a crystal and/or optics to select the preferable harmonic.
For example a Neodymium:YAG laser produces light at wavelengths 1064nm (InfraRed), 532nm (Green), 355nm (UltraViolet) and 266nm (also UV) and any one of these can be selected using optics, but you'll usually get some of the other wavelengths leaking through as well, unless you have really good optics (which we didin't have on the one I used, so it always looked quite green even though we selected for UV).
So even though the Las beam may be UV, for example, the colour may just be a harmonic leaking through the optics and it doesn't take much of a change in the wavelength to go from blue (~400nm) to green (~500nm) to red (~600nm).
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TheLionOfTheForest wrote:If they are more akin to plasma weaponry, then again they would melt a hole right through a storm trooper.
No, that would depend upon the exact temperature of the plasma and the size of the bolt, possibly amongst other factors. I mean, police is field-testing a plasma-based stun gun in the real world, and the pulsed energy projectile weapon in development also mentions "exploding plasma" as part of its stun effects. Might be overkill if it melts the target, although it would surely push crime rate down.
Set your Tasers from stun to kill!
Anyway I knew I had some kind of Lasgun break down somewhere and I found it in The Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, dont ask me why I own it. So I hope its ok I post this pic here... its not a high quality scan just a shot from my camera phone.
Some data from the book:
19 Megathule range.
weighs 2.3 Kg
Single or auto fire
220 shots per minute
has low and high power settings
Low setting makes a whining sound
High setting makes a cracking sound
"you can drop it, hit it, use it as a club or submerge it, and it will keep on working..."
"It is an instrument of mankind's divinity, the bringer of death to his foes, whose howling blast is a prayer to the Emperor's retribution"
Sure, why not? It provides a handy forward grip, as well as a firm stabilizing point for bracing the weapon when behind low cover and firing up at an enemy (who is on a hill, in the upper stories of a building, etc).
Lasguns come in every imaginable shape and design, much like our own modern military rifles and sub-machineguns. All depends on the pattern and its planet of origin.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
I like how not shaving is listed under signs of Chaos corruption.
TheLionOfTheForest wrote:The Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, dont ask me why I own it
Bah - I have it (and the Munitorum Manual) as well. The usual inconsistencies of 40k fluff aside, these books are just a plain good read and I'd recommend them both to anyone who likes the setting.
... actually I have two Primers, even. The original first edition, and then the Damocles Gulf one with added Tau lulz and naval decompression procedures. At least this way I won't get shot if I ever lose one.
You know I saw it in the NYC GW store and thought it looked cool. Asked my parents to pick it up for me for Xmas a year or two back. I had no clue the damn thing cost around $80 new.
Okay. I think I just ordered it from Amazon or Black Library back then.
Sheesh!
Anyways, good purchase. Aside from having to grin a lot at the contents themselves, I also really liked how they made it look sorta real, with the materials and everything.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Really? $80!
I got mine for $12.50 or something.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Ave Dominus Nox 
*A feral howl* 
Okay. I think I just ordered it from Amazon or Black Library back then.
