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frogy27 wrote:
Hydras can't hit flyers in less you get sixes sothey ant that good.

You might want to read the rules again before writing your next rant. Hydras hit flyers on normal BS.

Also, your spelling and grammar are awful. Please fix them if you want anyone to take you seriously.

if you get tabled you lose it easier to do that then take objective.

Not at all true. Tabling a good player is hard, and depending on tabling to win when your opponent is playing to claim objectives is almost a guaranteed loss.

From they way i understand only guns with intercept can shot at flyers and not need sixs but also you can't hyrda from gw so ill never get one

frogy27 wrote:
From they way i understand only guns with intercept can shot at flyers and not need sixs but also you can't hyrda from gw so ill never get one

Then you need to read the rules again until you do understand them, because you're wrong. Start on page 42 with the Skyfire rule.

Also, please spend more time on your posts and use proper spelling and grammar.

I think the main issue is that he dislikes the guard models, however an eldar allied detachment (as mentioned earlier), with 3 warwalkers with scatter lasers and a farseer could work.

Crisis averted glue quad gun from defense line onto the back of watever tank chassis you have, or hell just take a def3nse line like 50 points and have yourself a nice little aa base tucked away on the board somewhere to shoot at those pesky fly-flys

frogy27 wrote:
Hydras can't hit flyers in less you get sixes sothey ant that good. and i will not get a flyer just to fit in as i no you you have to run them for your army to be any good. also the hole objective games are points less. if you get tabled you lose it easier to do that then take objective. air power really helps if you want to table people and just out right win games. big reason i want do trounys any more all about how fast you can table your opponent. not how many objectives you got. seems that a game that should be fun and friendly is very way opposite it all about wining and bashing the hell out of peoples armys.

Im sorry if this comes across as too harsh but you need to grow up and man up. So what if people prefere blasting peoples armys away to playing for objectives? il admit I prefere to destroy my opponents army however I still play for objectives. I think your problem is that your trying to play fun friendly lists against hardcore lists. You either need to man up and step yo game up or go fidn yoself another gaming group

If I may, Mr. Frogy, is it? Let's you and I have a little chat. I have observed three things that are becoming increasingly apparent the more you post in this thread:

1) You seem totally unwilling to learn, adapt, be flexible or in any way aid your own cause in terms of successfully playing a game with fairly frequent rules and/or meta changes. This unfortunate, as you will are willfully denying yourself a chance to enjoy a game for which you must have some measure of enthusiasm. Not only is your army one of the most adaptable, you have received numerous helpful suggestions which involve only minor adjustments to your army, and you have refused them all out of hand. I can only conclude that you are intent on ruining the game for yourself. Buy a new unit or two, or find some new people to play the game with.

2) You seem to have a tenuous grasp on the game of 40k itself as it is, and I think you would be well served by a better understanding of the rules and how to play. For example, interceptor allows you to fire at the end of an opponents movement phase, while skyfire allows you to shoot at flyers with full BS. As another example, you say you have never played and have no desire to learn objective-based missions. These are a core part of the game, and the current rules are designed to synergize with objectives, they are one of the reasons a strong ground force is still more important to victory than flyers.

3) No offense intended, I say this with the utmost sincerity, but you really need to learn some basic spelling and grammar. Your posts are nearly unintelligible, and it makes it incredibly hard to take you seriously, or want to help.

TL,DR? Listen to the helpful suggestions from the nice dakka people, and make some sort of adjustment so that you can better enjoy playing 40k, or else maybe find some other interest for which you are better suited.

one must ask a question... "is froggy trollin?" for i fear that he must be...... because if not... well...

The oft-used quote: "Never attribute to malice.. "

should apply until proven otherwise.

There is not one thing killing 40k. There are plenty of things killing it.

Elitist players.

Rules that are too situational/confusing

Units that can only be taken out by "Rock Paper Scissor" tactics (eg. To kill a Landraider you need a Broadside, if Tau). When playing in low point matches this is doubly so.

Price Increases.

Codex Pricing issues. Why is it the same cost for a Digital Copy vs a paperback?

Codex release schedule. Much like Valve with HL2ep3 not much about upcoming products comes out from GW until a week before release.

Lack of Advertising. As far as having a public face, GW seems to not want to pay for advertising. You get tiny trailer, but you won't see any commercials on Youtube or any streaming service.

Fliers? They have rules that are exceptions to everything. Worst being that they can only be hit with SnapShots. But eventually armies will get Skyfire weapons and forget all about the Snap Shot fiasco because everyone will have a dedicated skyfire unit.

Right now everyone is just using Aegis Defense Line and it is too samey/weird. Especially for Tyranids.

OK, I've to admit that I am the one killing 40k. But you'll never catch me.

frogy27 wrote:
From they way i understand only guns with intercept can shot at flyers and not need sixs but also you can't hyrda from gw so ill never get one

1. Intercept does not help with flyers, on its own. It is used against units coming on from reserves.
2. You need to know about Skyfire. See the BRB.
3. If GW doesn't make a hyrda, take note of the comments that it's built using a Chimera chassis. Use the quad gun from a ADL pack and strap it to the back of one. If that's too difficult, or offends you too much, you're probably in the wrong hobby.

You did get hold of a codex, didn't you?
If so, get this:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3030001a_40K_RULEBOOK_v1.3_FEBRUARY13.pdf
and this:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3030015a_Imperial_Guard_v1.2_FEBRUARY13.pdf
Read them well, and note the changes to your codex as listed here.

Whar changes did they print a up datef dex and i got a old one


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Whar changes did they print a up datef dex and i got a old one


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Just looking at my dex nothing that says hydra can shot at flyers at normal bs

If you could please make a bit more effort with regards to spelling, punctuation and grammar your posts will be easier to understand, which will elicit better responses from other posters.

Please bear in mind we have members from all around the globe, many of whom don't have English as their first tongue.

Thanks

Also belive if gw dont make a model for unit type you can't use the just in dex to be cool. I so want storm troopers but you can't get them

The biggest issue with Fliers right now is that few armies have more than one counter to them, as Skyfire is not prevalent in this edition yet. Most armies can take an Aegis Defence Line, and other armies have some other sort of flier to counter fliers, but not everyone has fliers (meaning players) or an ADL. Under this situation, you have very few ways to counter a flier or two, and the Necron Flying circus is infamous for a good reason. Until there are more ways to hard counter fliers (or at least give them more reason to be used tactically, rather than toss them in there like they just the Mario Star) they will always be a massive point of contention.

frogy27 wrote:
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Just looking at my dex nothing that says hydra can shot at flyers at normal bs

Note that GW updates codices every 4-5 years or so.
If you have the same cover on your codex as on the GW site, it is the most up-to-date there is. Everyone has an old one.
The point of the erratas is to update the codex without a reprint.
Look up the word "errata", and read the FAQs introduction page on GW's website.

The ONLY codices with updates about full-BS against fliers (known as Skyfire) are DA and Chaos Marines, having been released in hardback, and after Skyfire existed.
Fliers didn't really exist until 6th, so your codex has no idea what one is.

Even so, if a unit has not got Skyfire, throw enough high-S shots at it, some will eventually hit.

frogy27 wrote:
Also belive if gw dont make a model for unit type you can't use the just in dex to be cool. I so want storm troopers but you can't get them

That is incorrect, and has no basis in any rules. You can indeed use hydras; either the FW one, or kitbash your own.

frogy27 wrote:
Also belive if gw dont make a model for unit type you can't use the just in dex to be cool. I so want storm troopers but you can't get them

Um, you can definitely buy storm troopers from GW. And Kasrkin models can be used as storm troopers. And you can convert stuff, heck there are units that require conversions to exist. And then there's always forgeworld...

Seriously though, read the 6th edition rulebook. Then read the most recent codex. Then the FAQs.

frogy27 wrote:

Just looking at my dex nothing that says hydra can shot at flyers at normal bs

Buy the 6th edition rule book and read it, specifically the section on fliers.

Go to the GW site and download the IG Codex FAQ and 40k Rulebook FAQ.

 Skinnereal wrote:

frogy27 wrote:
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Just looking at my dex nothing that says hydra can shot at flyers at normal bs

Note that GW updates codices every 4-5 years or so.
If you have the same cover on your codex as on the GW site, it is the most up-to-date there is. Everyone has an old one.
The point of the erratas is to update the codex without a reprint.
Look up the word "errata", and read the FAQs introduction page on GW's website.

The ONLY codices with updates about full-BS against fliers (known as Skyfire) are DA and Chaos Marines, having been released in hardback, and after Skyfire existed.
Fliers didn't really exist until 6th, so your codex has no idea what one is.

Even so, if a unit has not got Skyfire, throw enough high-S shots at it, some will eventually hit.

This. I play Eldar most of the time and we have no skyfire options. You would be amazed what a full unit of scatter walkers with guide will do to a flier. Just off the top of my head (not alot experience with IG) can't you take auto cannons as weapons platforms? I have seen those tear up fliers as well.

Fliers are simply another part of the game. You can use them, ignore them and/or bring tools to kill them.

Recently I've been ignoring them, works really well since I kill everything on the ground faster and then let the little zippers do nothing for the rest of the game.

frogy27 wrote:
Also belive if gw dont make a model for unit type you can't use the just in dex to be cool. I so want storm troopers but you can't get them

...do you just think that's a rule, or do you seriously believe that as a code of honour?

This thread is hurting my brain.

 afelt.tech wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:

frogy27 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just looking at my dex nothing that says hydra can shot at flyers at normal bs

Note that GW updates codices every 4-5 years or so.
If you have the same cover on your codex as on the GW site, it is the most up-to-date there is. Everyone has an old one.
The point of the erratas is to update the codex without a reprint.
Look up the word "errata", and read the FAQs introduction page on GW's website.

The ONLY codices with updates about full-BS against fliers (known as Skyfire) are DA and Chaos Marines, having been released in hardback, and after Skyfire existed.
Fliers didn't really exist until 6th, so your codex has no idea what one is.

Even so, if a unit has not got Skyfire, throw enough high-S shots at it, some will eventually hit.

This. I play Eldar most of the time and we have no skyfire options. You would be amazed what a full unit of scatter walkers with guide will do to a flier. Just off the top of my head (not alot experience with IG) can't you take auto cannons as weapons platforms? I have seen those tear up fliers as well.

Unfortunately, War Walkers are Guardians, still, and there's still a good chance you can fail to hurt a flier, even with Guide. Not to mention, Warwalkers die slightly slower than gerbils in punching bags filled with glass (thank you, Zero Punctuation), and people who play Eldar a lot know this. Needless to say, when your Warwalkers die, you don't have a good answer to replace them (unless you're willing to spend $180 +tax for 2 squads of 3 Warwalkers.
Though they are much better off at taking down fliers at ranged than, say, Tau ( I think) which really speaks to how well the Eldar codex is written. Granted, our lives will be much easier once we get the codex updated, but I think a lot of people would be happy if we were given SOMETHING FAQ'd with Skyfire.

IG anti-aircraft options and other advice

- Hydra - long range , no jink save ( targeters was FAQ'd ) sky fire , strength 7 shots - 75

Vendetta - x3 lascannons , thick armor , out flank , cheap - multi- purpose , transport capacity

Heavy Weapon Squads - issue " Bring it down " and fill the air with AAA from autocannons ( or las if you choose)

2) get an updated codex

3) Learn basic English skills and grammar

IMHO - flyers improved the game , yes it has some teething problems with a lack of widely available sky fire units , but it will change as codices come out

frogy27 wrote:
I can't buy fw as i live in usa and if a unit don't have model then you can't field it and why would any one destroy something and spend all that money to just cut something up

I live in the USA and I can buy Forge World. I also take the time to make sure 99% of my words are spelled correctly, sentences are punctuated, and avoid "l33t" speak. Please do the same.

There is NO such rule as you can't field a unit if there is no model for it. None. Stop saying that and learn the art of...

Conversions, my man. Go through the Dakka Gallery and you'll see a number of models that people have converted. A part from this, a part from that: BLAMMO! A model that doesn't have an "official" model, yet. Don't be so close minded.

So, what I'm gathering is you play in a group that only plays 'til every last unit of your opponents' army is dead, and you're sick of having your weak-sauce IG killed en masse to a Heldrake (which is the only real flyer threat worth considering when you're building a list, imo), and you would rather complain about how that single unit has ruined your fun than read the FAQs, 6e rule book, and adjust your lists accordingly.

Now, I get the "I don't wanna buy Space Marine flyers 'cause they're ugly" argument -- let's face it, they're ugly. But if you really want to run them, you can scratch build or kitbash your own, or even buy a 1:48 - 1:64 scale WW2 jet and just call it good.

I would say "just ignore the flyers," but you wouldn't have started this thread if that tactic was already working for you. It sounds like you need to change your perceptions, adjust for a new edition, or change games, 'cause there are a lot of people who either enjoy flyers or have come to terms with them in one way or another.

TLDR: I agree with everyone above.

I will never make my own models i will not wreck a model to build hydra and our any model so you limited to whatit you can field from gw very limited. as to what they give you like. all the artillery the y say you can use but don't give you that many models. so what they in codex to look cool.

Could always play 'counts as' units? Take a basilisk and say 'this is a Medusa.' Maybe even put a sticky note on it.

You should play Orks. Then your horrible grammar would be fluffy and cute instead of headache inducing.