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If Harry Potter was a real person, I'd find a way to kill the little sucker. Think Cyclops' death in Ultimate X-men (not the regular Cyclops: he's still alive). I seriously hate the little lightning bolt stained douchebag.



P.S. Love X-men, and if mutants were real, I'd be happy. But to quote Cartman: "No Harry butthole p***y Potter"

 timetowaste85 wrote:
If Harry Potter was a real person, I'd find a way to kill the little sucker. Think Cyclops' death in Ultimate X-men (not the regular Cyclops: he's still alive). I seriously hate the little lightning bolt stained douchebag.



P.S. Love X-men, and if mutants were real, I'd be happy. But to quote Cartman: "No Harry butthole p***y Potter"

What if you removed harry potter from the equation, and say... Melisandre from GoT's magic were real?

Then that would be okay. It's really just the little dirtbag I have a problem with.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Then that would be okay. It's really just the little dirtbag I have a problem with.

see, cuz that's actually what the thread is about... magic, not that particular character or brand of it.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Then that would be okay. It's really just the little dirtbag I have a problem with.

see, cuz that's actually what the thread is about... magic, not that particular character or brand of it.

Yeah, um....there's a good chance I got that. However, it gave me the option to threaten the life of a fictional character, and you seek to take that away from me...

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Then that would be okay. It's really just the little dirtbag I have a problem with.

see, cuz that's actually what the thread is about... magic, not that particular character or brand of it.

Yeah, um....there's a good chance I got that. However, it gave me the option to threaten the life of a fictional character, and you seek to take that away from me...

I sense a great and powerful Sith among us.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Speaking of fictional characters, i just thought of the perfect person to be the most powerful magician on Earth:

Jeff Lebowski, his magic rugs will really tie any room together, man

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
What if you removed harry potter from the equation, and say... Melisandre from GoT's magic were real?

I would not want her... That witch is crazy...

My point was more that the thread isn't and shouldnt be solely focused on one tiny niche of "magic" within the realms of fantasy authors

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
My point was more that the thread isn't and shouldnt be solely focused on one tiny niche of "magic" within the realms of fantasy authors

I know, I still wouldn't want her or her Lord of Fire...

I would take time off of work and leave a bloody mess of people who have seriously wronged me or those I love. I would resurrect those who have escaped this life without knowing my wrath just so I could inact my vengeance. I would then make chili dogs.

 ProtoClone wrote:
I would take time off of work and leave a bloody mess of people who have seriously wronged me or those I love. I would resurrect those who have escaped this life without knowing my wrath just so I could inact my vengeance. I would then make chili dogs.

Pretty much nails my earlier point...

 Leigen_Zero wrote:

 ProtoClone wrote:
I would take time off of work and leave a bloody mess of people who have seriously wronged me or those I love. I would resurrect those who have escaped this life without knowing my wrath just so I could inact my vengeance. I would then make chili dogs.

Pretty much nails my earlier point...

Yeah, I think I went too far with the chili dogs.

On the other hand, he didn't stumble upon the idea of turning his enemies INTO chili dogs and devouring them to gain their power in a delicious rite yet.

I suppose that's why magic-users need training.

 Cheesecat wrote:
I would cast spells to make women fall in love with me.

cheesecat, out of all the magic powers you could choose you happen to pick magic power: Gain stalker 1/day

I'm thinking having a lot of women in love with you would be problematic, perhaps if the love spell came with magic power : Cancel Jealousy 10/day

Bullockist wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:
I would cast spells to make women fall in love with me.

cheesecat, out of all the magic powers you could choose you happen to pick magic power: Gain stalker 1/day

I'm thinking having a lot of women in love with you would be problematic, perhaps if the love spell came with magic power : Cancel Jealousy 10/day

Nice.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
My point was more that the thread isn't and shouldnt be solely focused on one tiny niche of "magic" within the realms of fantasy authors

I know, I still wouldn't want her or her Lord of Fire...

Possible thematic spoilers (no specific story details, just putting what we've seen of GoT into the context of the overall story arc, and some commentary on Melisandre informed by later events).

I think it would be similar to how the Imperium views psykers. They think favorably of those that can serve the greater good, but are downright terrified of anyone who simply wishes to use it for any self serving purpose. Though I'm not going to champion the Imperium justification of what they do to psykers, but I do understand the fear. There are a lot of strange and chaotic people out there, and having innate powers that cannot be controlled and are often destructive, or at least highly manipulative would be a strong recipe for an extreme case of fear-mongering.

eh it Depends on the "type" of magic that is discovered (from which author,game makers point of view). I mean do we really want mage the awakening to be real? One day 2 mages get into an argument the next second all the air in the atmosphere is turned into lead, or is this going to be the harry potter verse magic which has like a total of 9 spells.

@ protoclone you didn't go far enough with the chili dogs

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke

 Leigen_Zero wrote:
The movie reference was merely a means to provide an example. The environment remains constant but the motive and people change. The 40-something loser who gets pushed around at work, the heroin addict, the guy who survives by commiting petty crimes, the zealot, the prison bitch, etc. Where there is resentment and anger there is a chance that should the power balance be inverted then a monster will be created, and quite frankly I think that human beings are morely to become Sith than Jedi...

Still relies on magic only coming to the disaffected only, which remains a simply ludicrous assumption to make when talking about worldbuilding. And further more it relies on those people acting entirely according the narrative (is angry, gets power, gets cruel revenge) rather than as actual, multi-dimensional people.

Right now angry malcontents have the power to go and grab power and wreak vengeance. Just get a gun and go shooting. Very, very few people choose this option. There are reasons for this.

And the Sith and Jedi thing is, once again, just a movie. People don't actually a dark side and a light side, that's just a neat narrative way of showing a conflict... but it doesn't and never was supposed to describe how people actually work. Quite frankly, people just fething don't work like they do in movies at all. Almost all of us just make sure they've got enough, their families have enough, and then try to get whatever else they can to make their lives more fun... and they simply do not go about causing chaos and murder.

This is how people work, and so it is how human systems work as a result.

If Magic was real, it wouldn't be magic. It would be as normal as breathing or using any sort of technology.

 sebster wrote:

 Leigen_Zero wrote:
The movie reference was merely a means to provide an example. The environment remains constant but the motive and people change. The 40-something loser who gets pushed around at work, the heroin addict, the guy who survives by commiting petty crimes, the zealot, the prison bitch, etc. Where there is resentment and anger there is a chance that should the power balance be inverted then a monster will be created, and quite frankly I think that human beings are morely to become Sith than Jedi...

Still relies on magic only coming to the disaffected only, which remains a simply ludicrous assumption to make when talking about worldbuilding. And further more it relies on those people acting entirely according the narrative (is angry, gets power, gets cruel revenge) rather than as actual, multi-dimensional people.

Right now angry malcontents have the power to go and grab power and wreak vengeance. Just get a gun and go shooting. Very, very few people choose this option. There are reasons for this.

And the Sith and Jedi thing is, once again, just a movie. People don't actually a dark side and a light side, that's just a neat narrative way of showing a conflict... but it doesn't and never was supposed to describe how people actually work. Quite frankly, people just fething don't work like they do in movies at all. Almost all of us just make sure they've got enough, their families have enough, and then try to get whatever else they can to make their lives more fun... and they simply do not go about causing chaos and murder.

This is how people work, and so it is how human systems work as a result.

There's a world of difference between someone having the power to try to acquire a weapon and exact vengeance that will, with 100% certainty, end with their own death as well versus someone being given an undetectable, untraceable targeted superweapon. The less the consequences of using it can blow back on the individual, the more people are going to use it for their own short-sighted, malevolent purposes. Most people refrain from violence and crime out of fear of reprisal, at least when passions are running high, not from some ideal of benevolence.

Hell, even if it wasn't untraceable, if you handed it out indiscriminitely you'd still find no shortage of people who'd greatly misuse it.

It is completely true that power corrupts. Most evil is only held in check by an opposing force in the opposite direction.

People are inherently bad. That doesn't mean everyone would be an axe murderer though. But with newfound power, people would use it for some sort of selfish goal.

A person might use power to commit only petty thefts or just be a jerk. Nothing majorly serious, but its still wrong.

Then you will have the outliers that do really bad stuff with their powers. Just like you will have people that do good stuff with their powers.

I was thinking many of the good magic users(The ones born with the ability to use magic) would end up creating a self gverning system that is mean to destroy the outliers.

 Grey Templar wrote:
If Magic was real, it wouldn't be magic. It would be as normal as breathing or using any sort of technology.

As long as it was predictable in the same way as other physical phenomena, that'd be true. That is, if there magic in the Harry Potter style (say these words and do these actions, and you get this result) then yeah, it'd just be another thing like any field of science.

But if instead it was inconsistent, varying and based on the morality of the people casting/being cast on (ie like Middle Earth style magic) then it would remain very different.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
There's a world of difference between someone having the power to try to acquire a weapon and exact vengeance that will, with 100% certainty, end with their own death as well versus someone being given an undetectable, untraceable targeted superweapon.

Most people believe they are smart enough to plan a murder without getting caught. And yet they don't do it.

Hell, even if it wasn't untraceable, if you handed it out indiscriminitely you'd still find no shortage of people who'd greatly misuse it.

Everybody in society has immense power that they could misuse with barely any consequence. Anyone could go out tonight and plant caltrops on a busy freeway and cause untold devestation in morning peak hour traffic, but they don't.

This idea of malice for it's own sake just isn't a motivating factor for people in the real world.

Just please, observe the actual real world and the decisions made by people. What I'm saying here is self-evident.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:
It is completely true that power corrupts.

For that to be true, then all those who gained power would have to have been corrupted by it. Given we know that hasn't happened, we can only conclude that it is completely wrong to state 'it is completely true that power corrupts', and can instead only 'some power sometimes corrupts'.

People are inherently bad. That doesn't mean everyone would be an axe murderer though. But with newfound power, people would use it for some sort of selfish goal.

Yes, for some selfish goal. Like gaining in power and working their way up the established social networks, and claiming all the sweet material rewards and status that coems with that. Exactly like I fething said in the first place.

Because that's how power has always worked. And that's the actual reality of the real world - people, even those with power, are better off working with others that have power, not against them. This doesn't mean they're good, it just means they're not fething idiots who'll gak away their lives and their power for the sake of petty bitterness.

 sebster wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
There's a world of difference between someone having the power to try to acquire a weapon and exact vengeance that will, with 100% certainty, end with their own death as well versus someone being given an undetectable, untraceable targeted superweapon.

Most people believe they are smart enough to plan a murder without getting caught. And yet they don't do it.

Hell, even if it wasn't untraceable, if you handed it out indiscriminitely you'd still find no shortage of people who'd greatly misuse it.

Everybody in society has immense power that they could misuse with barely any consequence. Anyone could go out tonight and plant caltrops on a busy freeway and cause untold devestation in morning peak hour traffic, but they don't.

This idea of malice for it's own sake just isn't a motivating factor for people in the real world.

Just please, observe the actual real world and the decisions made by people. What I'm saying here is self-evident.

There's also a world of difference between undirected sadism and targeted vengeance for wrongs, real or perceived. If someone's gotten to the point of the first they're generally so far gone that their own life ending is a central facet of their scheme. While the average person may think they're clever enough to get away with murder, that's a far cry from actually believing beyond any doubt that they could, and for most people their own life and freedom are worth more than giving out what they feel is deserved.

I'm not even saying the average person will, in cold blood, up and commit some atrocity if you put the ability to do so with no risk of ramifications in their hands, but when fire starts flowing in their veins and everything in their instincts is screaming to just tear the perceived cause's throat out? Too many people ignore the risk and go through with it anyways (lack of personal discipline, to tie in the wider benefits discipline brings society to the education thread), but many still stay their hands because they value their own life higher than the satisfaction giving in to their instincts would bring them (discipline and longer term purpose winning out over immediate impulse).

I think just having a gun at hand could be a tipping point for a nontrivial number of them, even more so if the gun was permanently affixed to their hand. Compound that with no evidence to link them to the crime, and the number climbs ever higher.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
I think just having a gun at hand could be a tipping point for a nontrivial number of them, even more so if the gun was permanently affixed to their hand. Compound that with no evidence to link them to the crime, and the number climbs ever higher.

Sure, it climbs higher, but to suggest it might climb so high that we should just throw everything we know about human nature and society out the window? Absolutely not.

The absolute defining point of human nature is enlightened self interest. They will figure out how to benefit themselves and those around them, and then they will do that thing.

 sebster wrote:

 Leigen_Zero wrote:
The movie reference was merely a means to provide an example. The environment remains constant but the motive and people change. The 40-something loser who gets pushed around at work, the heroin addict, the guy who survives by commiting petty crimes, the zealot, the prison bitch, etc. Where there is resentment and anger there is a chance that should the power balance be inverted then a monster will be created, and quite frankly I think that human beings are morely to become Sith than Jedi...

Still relies on magic only coming to the disaffected only, which remains a simply ludicrous assumption to make when talking about worldbuilding. And further more it relies on those people acting entirely according the narrative (is angry, gets power, gets cruel revenge) rather than as actual, multi-dimensional people.

Right now angry malcontents have the power to go and grab power and wreak vengeance. Just get a gun and go shooting. Very, very few people choose this option. There are reasons for this.

And the Sith and Jedi thing is, once again, just a movie. People don't actually a dark side and a light side, that's just a neat narrative way of showing a conflict... but it doesn't and never was supposed to describe how people actually work. Quite frankly, people just fething don't work like they do in movies at all. Almost all of us just make sure they've got enough, their families have enough, and then try to get whatever else they can to make their lives more fun... and they simply do not go about causing chaos and murder.

This is how people work, and so it is how human systems work as a result.

I'm just using the tropes as a means to an explanation, while I appreciate that people are not unidimensional, I just think that people are generally hard-wired to be d-bags to each other, and giving them magic is just going to give them tools to enact their vengeance. I'm not saying they would become supervillians that start by bumping off the guy who bullied them in school, and then all of a sudden we're looking at the next Sauron, but most people would not consider the consequences of their actions if their intentions are solely focused on a single motive, or would plan around those consequences. There are plenty of people out there right now who want to tear down the world, because they feel the world has wronged them in some way and they want payback.

Plus, as mentioned, it's not the 50,000 people who have magic and occasionally use it to make someones can of cola fizz everywhere because they cut in line, it's the 5 people who would turn you into a toad for doing the same thing that we would really need to worry about, to use the examples given in later posts, I'm not worried about the 10,000 responsible gun owners, it's the one nutter with a shotgun in a cinema that worries me...

EDIT: With regard to 'power corrupts' I would say that it most definately does, maybe not in the sense that we see in movies, but it most definately corrupts. Name me a single executive who hasn't sneakily charged something superfluous to the company expense account, a politician who hasn't used his influence for personal gain, or a celebrity who has never uttered the phrase 'do you know who I am' to get preferential treatment at a restaurant/club (or indeed a politician/executive that have done any of the three I mentioned)

EDIT: Also, I would like to see a discworld style of magic, in that magic is an inherent part of the universe, like physics or mathematics etc, and as such can do fantastical things like turn lead into gold and summon mysterious creatures, but at the same time can be carefully studied, much like we study physics and chemistry in reality

 Leigen_Zero wrote:
I'm just using the tropes as a means to an explanation,

And that's a lot of the problem. The tools you use to explain your world view are a major influence in how your world view forms. When you think in terms of movie cliches... your worldview is very likely to be nothing more than movie cliches.

There are plenty of people out there right now who want to tear down the world, because they feel the world has wronged them in some way and they want payback.

And yet the world hasn't been torn down. Despite it being in the capability of just about any person to do so. Because this idea in your head that given power, people will use it anti-social ways just doesn't fething work. I can't explain it any more than I have, only to see you just repeat your premise over and over again, without any recognition of what I am explaining to you.

Yes, people are petty and they are selfish, but they aren't fething idiots. That means that very, very few of them will go around looking for direct physical conflict with the whole of society, because even with magical powers that's a really stupid idea.

EDIT: With regard to 'power corrupts' I would say that it most definately does, maybe not in the sense that we see in movies, but it most definately corrupts. Name me a single executive who hasn't sneakily charged something superfluous to the company expense account, a politician who hasn't used his influence for personal gain, or a celebrity who has never uttered the phrase 'do you know who I am' to get preferential treatment at a restaurant/club (or indeed a politician/executive that have done any of the three I mentioned)

First up, your understanding of the top end of the business world is informed entirely by newspaper headlines and some very strange assumptions (as a tip - people don't write newspaper articles about the people act honourably because that's not a story).

And your understanding of policing and celebrity seems to be coming, once again, from movies and not real life.

Lets just say if magical creatures became real my dinner plate would become very interesting....... LOAD UP THE RIFLES BOYS WE'VE GOT US A GRIFFIN TO KENTUCKY FRY
If magic users became real i would treat them just as i treat most other people, dont bother me and we wont have a problem