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Wouldn't a Basilisk/Earthshaker Battery/Manticore eat this up? Not saying it's not a valid tactic, just helping you identify counters.

With the Earthshakers, because most of the unit is Armor 3 (I believe, not an expert on Tau), and the Manticore just from sheer number of str 10 wounds. And both deny you cover unless you're actually sitting in it. (so keep that in mind, park in ruins until the arty is gone).

And while you ignore cover, it's not hard to hide a Manticore and Rune Priest entirely out of sight (Basilisk is tougher, because of the vertical height on the gun), I abused that combo recently at a local tournament.. One opponent who wasn't expecting it saw Coteuz and squad take 25 wounds...at strength 10....on turn 1.

anonymou5 wrote:
Wouldn't a Basilisk/Earthshaker Battery/Manticore eat this up? Not saying it's not a valid tactic, just helping you identify counters.

With the Earthshakers, because most of the unit is Armor 3 (I believe, not an expert on Tau), and the Manticore just from sheer number of str 10 wounds. And both deny you cover unless you're actually sitting in it. (so keep that in mind, park in ruins until the arty is gone).

And while you ignore cover, it's not hard to hide a Manticore and Rune Priest entirely out of sight (Basilisk is tougher, because of the vertical height on the gun), I abused that combo recently at a local tournament.. One opponent who wasn't expecting it saw Coteuz and squad take 25 wounds...at strength 10....on turn 1.

thank you!!! that defeintly falls within the weakness baramoter!

how many imperial guard lists take those? 50% or greater? what is the front armor 13? Ive played dozens of imperial guard and ive seen a basilisk or 2 but never an earthshaker. I will look up the heavy slot for iperial guard and see what they do and if they have stiff competition for spot.

All you can do is spread out to max coherency and get a line on a shot and take them out!!!

Ill do some math on the effectiveness on their barrage tomorrow.

Front armor on a Manticore or Basilisk is 12. Earthshaker platforms are T7 (FW unit, same gun as Basilisk, but can't move). I couldn't give you a percentage, but all three are pretty common. They're nasty, especially when partnered with a Rune Priest or DA Librarian (Prescience on Barrage weapons is brutal). And they're even better on a terrain heavy map.

I ran a Manticore for the first time at LGS tournament on Saturday (I run SW primary, so I have been experimenting with various IG units to bring along with my Vendettas), and it easily earned its way onto my tourney lists. In two of my games I managed to hide it in such a way that only fliers could even gain LOS at all (and in one of those games, I had the Warlord trait that granted me stealth ruins, so when the Stormraven shot at my Manticore, the only angle it could get granted me a 3+ cover.)

anonymou5 wrote:
Front armor on a Manticore or Basilisk is 12. Earthshaker platforms are T7 (FW unit, same gun as Basilisk, but can't move). I couldn't give you a percentage, but all three are pretty common. They're nasty, especially when partnered with a Rune Priest or DA Librarian (Prescience on Barrage weapons is brutal). And they're even better on a terrain heavy map.

I ran a Manticore for the first time at LGS tournament on Saturday (I run SW primary, so I have been experimenting with various IG units to bring along with my Vendettas), and it easily earned its way onto my tourney lists. In two of my games I managed to hide it in such a way that only fliers could even gain LOS at all (and in one of those games, I had the Warlord trait that granted me stealth ruins, so when the Stormraven shot at my Manticore, the only angle it could get granted me a 3+ cover.)

The list does have a hard counter (i think, bwahahah) with the precision deepstrike from farsight, but that would mean changing the warlord trait....

then drop in and say high!! how you doin!! and kill em all.

You could try but any guard player worth their salt will bubble wrap their tanks with lots of guard bodies so you would not be able to get with 2d6 melta range for the FB's and you would have half of your army off the board for turn 1 leaving a lot of pie plates going onto the rest of your army

MarkyMark wrote:
You could try but any guard player worth their salt will bubble wrap their tanks with lots of guard bodies so you would not be able to get with 2d6 melta range for the FB's and you would have half of your army off the board for turn 1 leaving a lot of pie plates going onto the rest of your army

Plus, in my particular case, I would love for you to deep strike into the back corner (assuming you even find a place to land between my blob, my borderline insane aegis placement, and whatever ruin I'm hiding my Arty behind), because my second wave of drop pods is coming down and filling you with plasma. I'll gladly trade my Manticore/Earthhaker for your Farsight bomb.

Exactly, the farsight bomb is sort of like my sternguard drop pod list, with that list I have 10 meltas (twin linked) 8 flamers 3 heavy flamers (twin linked) and 10 plasmas in drop pods along with 30 sternguard I know I am going to kill a lot and always do but I will lose a LOT as well, also I can combat squad to have 6 different units and only 5 men in each, i.e they can be overkilled quite easy which is good for me as shooting say a big blog of guard at one combat squad is fine by me. And all that is around the same price as the points mentioned in this thread, it is a lot of points to sink into a non scoring single unit imo

Will be fun to play against one some day though!

Theorius wrote:
I had

The blob

4x 10 kroot - they protect the blob as best they can and hold/contest objectives if needed, but I plan to vapoo everyone

2 riptides with interceptor (i didnt even get to use the interceptor on the teq, sad face) might switch one for longstrike though....dunno....

Few questions/remarks:

* Its also possible to give one suit a 2+save and + 1 toughness. If you keep this model attached to both shadowsun and farsight to use a 'look out sir' with a 2+ save. (flaming helldrakes) I believe you can still use the hit and run because this upgrade isn't bought by this model.

* I would give those riptides also skyfire, fusion blaster and ion exxelerator. thats still 5x S7 shots against flyers.

* You can also give those kroot a dog so the whole unit get senses.

(edited: FAQ let us know you cannot pick missile drones )

anonymou5 wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
You could try but any guard player worth their salt will bubble wrap their tanks with lots of guard bodies so you would not be able to get with 2d6 melta range for the FB's and you would have half of your army off the board for turn 1 leaving a lot of pie plates going onto the rest of your army

Plus, in my particular case, I would love for you to deep strike into the back corner (assuming you even find a place to land between my blob, my borderline insane aegis placement, and whatever ruin I'm hiding my Arty behind), because my second wave of drop pods is coming down and filling you with plasma. I'll gladly trade my Manticore/Earthhaker for your Farsight bomb.

I dont need melta range for armor 12, but if it is successfully wrapped i will just have to go for the frontal charge! and hope for the best. I will do alot of assautling and then breaking off end of your assault phase.

Furthermore, by the time he came in HOPEFULLY the riptides put some nice holes in your lines with their pie plates.

Do you have a 1500 pt list i could see, so i can guage threat priority?

I am going to math hammer some imperial guard destruction on my farsun star tonight!




Automatically Appended Next Post:

shogun wrote:

Theorius wrote:
I had

The blob

4x 10 kroot - they protect the blob as best they can and hold/contest objectives if needed, but I plan to vapoo everyone

2 riptides with interceptor (i didnt even get to use the interceptor on the teq, sad face) might switch one for longstrike though....dunno....

Few questions/remarks:

* Its also possible to give one suit a 2+save and + 1 toughness. If you keep this model attached to both shadowsun and farsight to use a 'look out sir' with a 2+ save. (flaming helldrakes) I believe you can still use the hit and run because this upgrade isn't bought by this model.

* I would give those riptides also skyfire, fusion blaster and ion exxelerator. thats still 5x S7 shots against flyers.

* You can also give those kroot a dog so the whole unit get senses.

(edited: FAQ let us know you cannot pick missile drones )

The one suit with iridium is a good point....I will need to see if it messes up hit and run like you said.

riptides - i dont have the points for skyfire at 1500.

Giving the kroot the hound is a good point for if I scout em. I will find 10 points if I can!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

anonymou5 wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
You could try but any guard player worth their salt will bubble wrap their tanks with lots of guard bodies so you would not be able to get with 2d6 melta range for the FB's and you would have half of your army off the board for turn 1 leaving a lot of pie plates going onto the rest of your army

Plus, in my particular case, I would love for you to deep strike into the back corner (assuming you even find a place to land between my blob, my borderline insane aegis placement, and whatever ruin I'm hiding my Arty behind), because my second wave of drop pods is coming down and filling you with plasma. I'll gladly trade my Manticore/Earthhaker for your Farsight bomb.

It would not be a trade you would not kill very many with your plasma.

In regards to imperial guard I am not scared of you in assault so I am not scared of getting in your face. The ONLY thing that scared me is your pie plates that are ap3 and ignore cover. Everything else I can take, but again i would like to see a 1500pt list first.

Trasvi wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:

One thing your bomb is going to fear is fast assault units, particularly those with high I that make HnR difficult to pull off.

Hit and run is only based on the highest initiative in your unit, nothing about the other unit. And this unit can actually hold its own in combat - using the Neurochip t give counter-attack you're on 38 S5 and 28 S3 attacks.

At low initiative. Cover doesnt work in CC so when something gets into combat with it. Even for 1 round it could do some pretty nasty damage.

 Exergy wrote:

Trasvi wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:

One thing your bomb is going to fear is fast assault units, particularly those with high I that make HnR difficult to pull off.

Hit and run is only based on the highest initiative in your unit, nothing about the other unit. And this unit can actually hold its own in combat - using the Neurochip t give counter-attack you're on 38 S5 and 28 S3 attacks.

At low initiative. Cover doesnt work in CC so when something gets into combat with it. Even for 1 round it could do some pretty nasty damage.

what do you mean low initiative?

Furthermore it is not "bad" in combat, they have 41 atks, sure most of those are low ws, but str 5. They will also have stubborn so they likely pass morale and get to hit and run at init 5.

No unit that assaults them will hit them at full strength they will likely take one round of shoots from a part of the blob at least, and then overwatch.

Im going to do up a nobz biker unit and some blood angels to see how they fair taking one round of shooting from part of the blob, and a full overwatch.

For your theory hammering, my current (no forgeworld) tourney list looks like this (at 1999 points)
(On my phone, apologize for typos)

Rune priest

5 man Wolf guard squad in drop pod (1 tda, five combi meltas)

Three packs of 7 grey hunters in drop pod (plasma, wolf standard, terminator wolf guard with combi plasma)

One pack of 7 grey hunters in drop pod (flamer, wolf standard, terminator wolf guard with heavy flamer)

Two packs of five long fangs (4 mls)

Company command squad (meltas)

Two bare bones infantry squads

Platoon command squad (Flamers)

Two vendettas

One manticore.

Aegis with comms relay


For 1500 I'd have to think on it, but maybe make ig main, drop two gh packs, take the vendettas out of a squadron, drop a squad of long fangs, swap the Ccs for a lord commissar, add a vet squa with meltas

For forgeworld drop the vendettas and manticore, add sabres and earth shaker platforms. (Please deep strike against that. Lol)

Also, you aren't doing much to my gun line turn one. The effective range of maker light is 42 inches, 48 inches snap firing with an etherial or a vehicle. Long fangs shoot at 48, manticores don't care about range.

Something funny happened in a game I observed. It was a farsight-bomb Tau army against a Slaanesh CSM army. He dropped Farsight and his bodyguards down (no shield drones) and almost wiped out an entire unit of noise marines. He then forgot to spread out in his assault phase.

Guess who survived? Yes, the blastmaster model. So next turn, the noise marine fires his blaster and lands directly on Farsight's head and wipes out the whole unit (insta-killing S8 AP3 with no cover allowed). Though the Tau won that game, that shot was just sheer hilarity.


You also have to watch out for daemons and their 2++ invuln saves. Forewarning + Grimoire = insanely hard to kill seekers. Even scarier is a Lord of Change with Forewarning and Grimoire. In my last game, I also got 4+ FNP for him. So that's a flying MC with re-rollable 2++ and 4+ FNP. I feel bad for the deathstar, not because I will kill it, but because I'm going to go and wipe out the rest of the army while unit is "busy" against my LoC.

Theorius wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

Trasvi wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:

One thing your bomb is going to fear is fast assault units, particularly those with high I that make HnR difficult to pull off.

Hit and run is only based on the highest initiative in your unit, nothing about the other unit. And this unit can actually hold its own in combat - using the Neurochip t give counter-attack you're on 38 S5 and 28 S3 attacks.

At low initiative. Cover doesnt work in CC so when something gets into combat with it. Even for 1 round it could do some pretty nasty damage.

what do you mean low initiative?
Furthermore it is not "bad" in combat, they have 41 atks, sure most of those are low ws, but str 5. They will also have stubborn so they likely pass morale and get to hit and run at init 5.
No unit that assaults them will hit them at full strength they will likely take one round of shoots from a part of the blob at least, and then overwatch.
Im going to do up a nobz biker unit and some blood angels to see how they fair taking one round of shooting from part of the blob, and a full overwatch.

I was under the impression that most of those attacks were less than init 4.

Yes they will get to overwatch against 1 unit that is charging them a turn.

With bubble wrap, you either stay at range and shoot the bubble wrap while the things behind the wrap hit you, or you move closer to get into range of the real nasty stuff and expose yourself to getting charged by the bubble wrap.

I agree you can get out of combat and can likely win combat but if a cheap squad gets into combat with some of the drones or suits they can do siginigant damage to your death-star because we are talking about a shooty tau deathstar, not something that can put out massive overwhelming damage or unkillable resilience. For 900 points that unit IS bad at combat

* Its also possible to give one suit a 2+save and + 1 toughness. If you keep this model attached to both shadowsun and farsight to use a 'look out sir' with a 2+ save. (flaming helldrakes) I believe you can still use the hit and run because this upgrade isn't bought by this model.

(edited: FAQ let us know you cannot pick missile drones )

The problem with this is I don't think bodyguards are independent characters, so you can't use Los on them. To make this work, you need to attach a second commander instead of shadowsun. On the other hand, if you do that, you can give the second commander a drone controller giving your 16 drones bs 5.. I think in the end shadowsun may be better, because she gives the whole unit the cover save, but its good either way.

 NinjaStars wrote:

* Its also possible to give one suit a 2+save and + 1 toughness. If you keep this model attached to both shadowsun and farsight to use a 'look out sir' with a 2+ save. (flaming helldrakes) I believe you can still use the hit and run because this upgrade isn't bought by this model.

(edited: FAQ let us know you cannot pick missile drones )

The problem with this is I don't think bodyguards are independent characters, so you can't use Los on them. To make this work, you need to attach a second commander instead of shadowsun. On the other hand, if you do that, you can give the second commander a drone controller giving your 16 drones bs 5.. I think in the end shadowsun may be better, because she gives the whole unit the cover save, but its good either way.

You can field farsight to the left side, 2+ suit in the middle and shadowsun at the right side. as long as both Independent characters are close to the 2+ suit, HE can do automatic los to both. Doesn't matter that bodyguards are not IC it works the other way around..

 Exergy wrote:

Trasvi wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:

One thing your bomb is going to fear is fast assault units, particularly those with high I that make HnR difficult to pull off.

Hit and run is only based on the highest initiative in your unit, nothing about the other unit. And this unit can actually hold its own in combat - using the Neurochip t give counter-attack you're on 38 S5 and 28 S3 attacks.

At low initiative. Cover doesnt work in CC so when something gets into combat with it. Even for 1 round it could do some pretty nasty damage.

Farsight is I5, drones/shadowsun are I4, suits are I3. They're striking before most things that would ID them.
Seriously, when have you ever called 40 S5 attacks 'bad' in combat?
Unless you get a really dedicated multiple attack power weapon close combat unit in on these guys, they're likely going to survive or win. They have up to 14 drones for ablative wounds T4 Sv4, a few invulnerable saves, and the suits themselves are 2W T4 Sv3. Even on average dice the crisis suits alone kill 4 MEQ in combat in addition to the 5 they kill on overwatch.
This unit has the power to wipe out any unit it turns its guns on. With JSJ in the mix, if this unit gets caught in combat with an enemy it can't deal with, it's your own damn fault.

The unit is perhaps 'bad' at combat compared to 900pts spent on elite combat monsters. Against the vast majority of units, especially cheap backfield stuff, this unit can be pretty damn effective.

at 900pts I would be putting 3 daemon princes into combat with you, of course after charging a throw away unit to soak up overwatch if possible. Do the suits have a invul? if not each wound would be insta kills to the suits and to farsight and whoever else as I usually run the staff of change. At I8 I would be going first unless you are in cover. Also do they have fearless or stubborn?, otherwise there is a chance you will be run down and destroyed. It seems to me to be a lot of points in one squad

MarkyMark wrote:
at 900pts I would be putting 3 daemon princes into combat with you, of course after charging a throw away unit to soak up overwatch if possible. Do the suits have a invul? if not each wound would be insta kills to the suits and to farsight and whoever else as I usually run the staff of change. At I8 I would be going first unless you are in cover. Also do they have fearless or stubborn?, otherwise there is a chance you will be run down and destroyed. It seems to me to be a lot of points in one squad

IF they use Shield drones 3++ on Shadowsuns shield drones or 4++ on normal shield drones.
All bodyguards auto-pass Look out sir, drones dont however.

They have the possibility to have Hit&run with retro vector thrusters or whatever their name.

And all suits can add a shield module ( 4++ ) as a support system aswell.

You can add survivalbility to the suits, but you sacrifice a bit of utility and firepower in the process.

Dracoknight wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
at 900pts I would be putting 3 daemon princes into combat with you, of course after charging a throw away unit to soak up overwatch if possible. Do the suits have a invul? if not each wound would be insta kills to the suits and to farsight and whoever else as I usually run the staff of change. At I8 I would be going first unless you are in cover. Also do they have fearless or stubborn?, otherwise there is a chance you will be run down and destroyed. It seems to me to be a lot of points in one squad

IF they use Shield drones 3++ on Shadowsuns shield drones or 4++ on normal shield drones.
All bodyguards auto-pass Look out sir, drones dont however.

They have the possibility to have Hit&run with retro vector thrusters or whatever their name.

And all suits can add a shield module ( 4++ ) as a support system aswell.

You can add survivalbility to the suits, but you sacrifice a bit of utility and firepower in the process.

Thanks for that, do have the codex just not had the time to go through it all yet, so many options are there!.

Hit and run is indeed very good, and I can understand the quandary about giving the suit a invul or a shield drone, didnt relise it was a auto pass LOS though!.

Really looking forward to playing the new Tau though

The deathstar just officially a bit deadlier, as you can double up on weapons. Instead of taking 2x plasma/fusion, you can take one plasma/plasma and one fusion/fusion, which allows better concentration of fire when split firing.

MarkyMark wrote:
at 900pts I would be putting 3 daemon princes into combat with you, of course after charging a throw away unit to soak up overwatch if possible. Do the suits have a invul? if not each wound would be insta kills to the suits and to farsight and whoever else as I usually run the staff of change. At I8 I would be going first unless you are in cover. Also do they have fearless or stubborn?, otherwise there is a chance you will be run down and destroyed. It seems to me to be a lot of points in one squad

... If your demon princes are in range to assault me, you're in range to be shot at before the assault.
I can't remember the exact stats of a Demon Prince, but lets say T5, 4+ inv, 4 wounds? Thats what is in the BRB, so I'll work from there.
I shoot 14 plasma shots, 8 fusion shots and 28 pulse shots. With a little markerlight help, thats 14.5 wounds. (This is saving up my neurochip for counterattack - i could just as well use it for monster hunter and get more.)
On overwatch if I haven't lost anything, another 3 wounds.
You get into combat against my gun drones (who are out the front of the unit forming a buffer. Lets say a demon prince kills 3 of them on average dice. I counter-attack, getting 4 wounds (4.7 if farsight is in combat). If a demon prince made it into combat (unlikely) even if he starts on full wounds the crisis suits will still win and probably kill him.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
RE: Look Out Sir:
The bodyguards can't be LOS'd from the drones. They're not characters. Farsight and Shadowsun will auto-pass LOS as long as a single bodyguard is alive, even if the LOS wound is taken on a drone.

Trasvi wrote:
The deathstar just officially a bit deadlier, as you can double up on weapons. Instead of taking 2x plasma/fusion, you can take one plasma/plasma and one fusion/fusion, which allows better concentration of fire when split firing.

MarkyMark wrote:
at 900pts I would be putting 3 daemon princes into combat with you, of course after charging a throw away unit to soak up overwatch if possible. Do the suits have a invul? if not each wound would be insta kills to the suits and to farsight and whoever else as I usually run the staff of change. At I8 I would be going first unless you are in cover. Also do they have fearless or stubborn?, otherwise there is a chance you will be run down and destroyed. It seems to me to be a lot of points in one squad

... If your demon princes are in range to assault me, you're in range to be shot at before the assault.
I can't remember the exact stats of a Demon Prince, but lets say T5, 4+ inv, 4 wounds? Thats what is in the BRB, so I'll work from there.
I shoot 14 plasma shots, 8 fusion shots and 28 pulse shots. With a little markerlight help, thats 14.5 wounds. (This is saving up my neurochip for counterattack - i could just as well use it for monster hunter and get more.)
On overwatch if I haven't lost anything, another 3 wounds.
You get into combat against my gun drones (who are out the front of the unit forming a buffer. Lets say a demon prince kills 3 of them on average dice. I counter-attack, getting 4 wounds (4.7 if farsight is in combat). If a demon prince made it into combat (unlikely) even if he starts on full wounds the crisis suits will still win and probably kill him.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
RE: Look Out Sir:
The bodyguards can't be LOS'd from the drones. They're not characters. Farsight and Shadowsun will auto-pass LOS as long as a single bodyguard is alive, even if the LOS wound is taken on a drone.

Thats fine, you can shoot them, as you wont be down till turn 2 (if deepstriking) or sitting in your deployment I will be in the air, if I know you have that unit in reserve I wouldnt leave my deployment. I usually run mine with biomancy, that you have to factor in possible t6/7/8 and 4plus FNP or re roll invul from greater gifts, of which I have two as well as 6's to hit. As for overwatch as said throw away unit to go in there first, if you overwatch fine, means you cant overwatch me, if you dont theres a chance you will be engaged in combat so cant overwatch, again fine by me.

You can put your drones out front but I can fly 12 inches so a chance I can get around them, add to my shooting first I wouldnt be charging a full strength squad, add to enfeeble and or misfortune that I could get off things really started to go down hill!

Man, I really want to play a farsight/shadowsun bomb now!, I know someone who runs a bodyguard heavy HQ hopefully playing him this weekend, but i think he runs more of a gun line so doubt he would be deepstriking them

In CC, I would be getting 6 attacks on the charge plus HoW, hitting on 3's (you will be hitting on 5's except for farsight) and wounding on 2's, ignoring the possibilty of warp speed, two CC's prescience etc

Do you guys think vindicare will cause trouble to this deathstar if he has a chance to shoot at it?

If it have shadowsun and is in cover you can expect a bunch of 2-3+ saves.

But if you fire at it from the back you might be lucky and hit the supports that might been hidden in the back or any of the characters.

Just know that if the deathstar decide to shot back it might hurt a bit.

If it gets to shoot, it will do heavy damage to the star.

But this star will pinpoint his deep strike in such a way the vindi will be either too far, or get blown up.

What I was thinking is that if all signature systems are on one suit then the vindicare can easily take it out. Even when he shoots at shadowsun there is risk involved since LOS doesn't work against him.

 BoomWolf wrote:
If it gets to shoot, it will do heavy damage to the star.

But this star will pinpoint his deep strike in such a way the vindi will be either too far, or get blown up.

Vindicare assasin, not vindicator tank....

Yes the vindicare will have a good time against shadow sun!

MarkyMark wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
If it gets to shoot, it will do heavy damage to the star.

But this star will pinpoint his deep strike in such a way the vindi will be either too far, or get blown up.

Vindicare assasin, not vindicator tank....

Yes the vindicare will have a good time against shadow sun!

I don't think he meant vindicator tank mate

Trasvi wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

Trasvi wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:

One thing your bomb is going to fear is fast assault units, particularly those with high I that make HnR difficult to pull off.

Hit and run is only based on the highest initiative in your unit, nothing about the other unit. And this unit can actually hold its own in combat - using the Neurochip t give counter-attack you're on 38 S5 and 28 S3 attacks.

At low initiative. Cover doesnt work in CC so when something gets into combat with it. Even for 1 round it could do some pretty nasty damage.

Farsight is I5, drones/shadowsun are I4, suits are I3. They're striking before most things that would ID them.
Seriously, when have you ever called 40 S5 attacks 'bad' in combat?
Unless you get a really dedicated multiple attack power weapon close combat unit in on these guys, they're likely going to survive or win. They have up to 14 drones for ablative wounds T4 Sv4, a few invulnerable saves, and the suits themselves are 2W T4 Sv3. Even on average dice the crisis suits alone kill 4 MEQ in combat in addition to the 5 they kill on overwatch.
This unit has the power to wipe out any unit it turns its guns on. With JSJ in the mix, if this unit gets caught in combat with an enemy it can't deal with, it's your own damn fault.

The unit is perhaps 'bad' at combat compared to 900pts spent on elite combat monsters. Against the vast majority of units, especially cheap backfield stuff, this unit can be pretty damn effective.

Playing DE, CSM, IG or SW, and thinking about meq+IG being common, think about this.
Are you going to sit at range, IG sqauds and cheap meq squads or are you going to move in and hit the heavy hitters. missile fangs, artillery can sit back and do pretty well against this, so I imagine you would want to bypass the bubble wrap and get to them. This exposes your 900 point monster to charges. Move a 50 point IG squad up, charge and eat the overwatch. Then consider a Grey Hunter squad(or CSM squad) charging after that. 30 attacks, 20 hit, 10 wound probably on drones(as they would move up before the suits). Your ton of attacks isnt going to do too much against 3+ armor, probably kill 4-5. You win, then you can hit and run and get away. But that is 200 points. What if another squad gets into combat? You lose by 5 and are hoping you outrun them and rally, from 400 points of average CC ability.

Now im not counting wulfen standard, MoK, or any other nasties here, but the 900 point monster needs to avoid combat because for 900 points it doesn't do very well in combat. Something half its costs will give it major trouble.

 Exergy wrote:


Playing DE, CSM, IG or SW, and thinking about meq+IG being common, think about this.
Are you going to sit at range, IG sqauds and cheap meq squads or are you going to move in and hit the heavy hitters. missile fangs, artillery can sit back and do pretty well against this, so I imagine you would want to bypass the bubble wrap and get to them. This exposes your 900 point monster to charges. Move a 50 point IG squad up, charge and eat the overwatch. Then consider a Grey Hunter squad(or CSM squad) charging after that. 30 attacks, 20 hit, 10 wound probably on drones(as they would move up before the suits). Your ton of attacks isnt going to do too much against 3+ armor, probably kill 4-5. You win, then you can hit and run and get away. But that is 200 points. What if another squad gets into combat? You lose by 5 and are hoping you outrun them and rally, from 400 points of average CC ability.

Now im not counting wulfen standard, MoK, or any other nasties here, but the 900 point monster needs to avoid combat because for 900 points it doesn't do very well in combat. Something half its costs will give it major trouble.

Overlooking the softening up shots they would do before the assaults, they are hardly likely to fail morale, they will be stubborn in most cases in assault.

Furthermore its 900 for sure but not the only thing in the army, at 1500 pts I personally take two riptides and the 4 units of kroot I posted. I think your analogy of what you would throw at it is based on your 2000 pt list as well. Its highly unlikely at 1500 pts your going to have a horde or grey knights, rune piriests, artiliiery plasma vets, vendettas etc.

The cool thing with farsun star is except for counters to the unit I am not worried about focus firing a unit down to zero, I am very comfortable with softening them into more manageable pieces. So in a turn of shooting with all my dakka lets say you had something like so (in range)

Shooting phase of vets and grey hunters -

Plasma vets (not in rapid fire) i am assuming all 10 have plasma but i know thats not the case - 1 dead drone at the end of shooting. Grey hunters 1 unit in rapid fire 1 unit not, does 3 more wounds.


10 plasma vets - main dakka goes here - 6 drones, farsight, 1 gun from shadow - 9 dead vets (not at rapid fire)

10 grey hunters - 2x plasma/missile, shadowsun fusion, airbuster/missile (not at rapid fire) 5 dead marines on average

10 grey hunters - 3x plasma, fusion (at rapid fire) - 6 dead marines on average

Then i jump away, but oops i rolled bad (3 ones) so both grey hunters can charge me....in overwatch alone one unit will be vaporized, the other will not survive the assault, but lets say it does, I then get to hit and run at the end of your assault phase so I am not tied up.

again, this is not taking into account the turn(s) of shooting before or what the rest of my/your army does









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MarkyMark wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
If it gets to shoot, it will do heavy damage to the star.

But this star will pinpoint his deep strike in such a way the vindi will be either too far, or get blown up.

Vindicare assasin, not vindicator tank....

Yes the vindicare will have a good time against shadow sun!

Vindicare would be a pain but how many people take one? I have played more than my fair share of grey knights, and I think....in 5th? i saw one once....

I am not going to worry about one unit if it is not taken more than 50% of the time by most people who play the list.


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In regards to blasts and flame templates that can ignore ap3 and cover I have done some best case (for me) and worst case (for me) based on optimal unit coherency. (wish i could post my images but you will have to take my word for it)

To break it down a suit is 1.5" in diameter, a drone is 1" and they can have 2" between them.

If you can do it in your head you can see that with a drone between 2 suits you can never get a blast to hit two suits EVER, a flame template can hit 2 suits and a drone or 2 in some cases if he is a inch from one of my suits when he fires. Do the math 2" conherency on both sides of a 1" drone. Even if you direct hit the drone, the 3" blast only goes to the very edge of the coeherncy and does not hit the suits.

The 5" can do some more damage but nothing super big, cant wipe the entire unit or anything....see below. Also this is based on having drones seperating all suits. I am going to try and do some unit formations with drones all in the middles and suits on the outside, so if you want to hit suits you are aiming at the edges and your deviation could go off the group and hit nothing. Havent run any test cases yet.

If a big ol 5" large blast hits me, you would want to hit a drone, and at best case get a drone and 2 suits. (this is where it might be good to have one suit with iridium, since he can shrug the ap3 in some cases)

If it is a small blast you can hit only 1 suit or drone with a direct hit.

If they deviate to the best location EVER your best bet large blast is 3 suits and a drone or two

Small blasts can get a drone or 2 and a suit if it deviates at all and stays within the unit, but never more.

so while dangerous, they are not all that scary if I maintain optimal unit coherency in a bubble formation, If i stretched them all out in a line it would be even worse for the blasts and templates