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 cincydooley wrote:
You basically insinuate that if you're okay with Finecast you must not care about your models.

That's not what I said. The "success" rate of finecast is inflated by the large number of people that don't care if their models are trash. If you look at just the people who care about their models then it seems like the people having no problems are the lucky ones and horror stories are common.

 azreal13 wrote:
I mind pieces that have fallen off the sprue and never made it into the blister, I mind weapons breaking off at the fist because of internal bubbles weakening the structure, I mind components being so densely covered with flash that they're unusable, I mind models being so badly cast that they're simply beyond redemption and, worst of all, I hate small bubbles on small details that somehow manage to change something with such subtlety you don't notice until you're taking a brush to it.

And I mind being expected to pay more for this atrocious and tacky material than I did the metal models, even without its faults.

 Peregrine wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
You basically insinuate that if you're okay with Finecast you must not care about your models.

That's not what I said. The "success" rate of finecast is inflated by the large number of people that don't care if their models are trash. If you look at just the people who care about their models then it seems like the people having no problems are the lucky ones and horror stories are common.

No, that's not what you said. But that statement was predicated on the assumption that if you're happy with your Finecast you must not be discerning enough. We must just be in a really fantastic area, because the folks I play with, as a whole, haven't had Finecast issues outside of some of the very first wave of models (again, terminator Libby being the biggest)

 cincydooley wrote:
But that statement was predicated on the assumption that if you're happy with your Finecast you must not be discerning enough.

No it wasn't. Having many "happy" customers who just don't care enough to be outraged does not in any way assume that everyone who is happy with finecast just doesn't care.

 Peregrine wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
But that statement was predicated on the assumption that if you're happy with your Finecast you must not be discerning enough.

No it wasn't. Having many "happy" customers who just don't care enough to be outraged does not in any way assume that everyone who is happy with finecast just doesn't care.

Some are just lucky....

I like resin - I buy resin from many companies, and sometimes there are problems.

But GW is worse than most* - not just because of the material but because of a lack of QA.

And, at its root... the QA is a bigger problem with GW simply because they produce more resin models than nearly any other miniatures company.

But it really does not help that the resin that they decided to go with... really is not the best on the market.

I do not know why GW went with the material that they chose, unless, for some reason, it means that they can produce models more quickly.

The Auld Grump

* Except possibly Scotia/Grendel but they use the same resin that they have used for twenty years and more. I have an awful lot of resin terrain from them, and some of it has been around for most of those twenty years.

Findcash has much better detail, but I doubt that many of the models cast in the material will last as long as the Grendel resins....

Scibor uses Smooth Cast 321 or 305, not 100% certain, very good stuff.

I am 99% sure they pressure cast the models similar to forgeworld, this always leads to better quality.

Grump, one of the less talked about reasons they went for finecast is they can automate the casting process and shed more people from manufacturing, its injected, not pressurized like Forgeworld.

This is why QA went out the window, when you spin cast (for those that don't know) someone manually must remove them from the mold case and clip them apart before the mold can be reused.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

I do not know why GW went with the material that they chose, unless, for some reason, it means that they can produce models more quickly.

My understanding of why is because it is a resin-plastic hybrid that is supposedly a lot less toxic than proper resins and thus can be sold to little Timmy.

 azreal13 wrote:
K

The fact is, if you have a problem you owe it to anybody else who might buy the same thing to inform the company, so they can be aware of the problem and fix it. Even if you think they're aware, perhaps they also think they've resolved it?

If you've built the model already, don't necessarily return it, perhaps send an email detailing the issues, maybe with supporting pics? Perhaps you'll get some sort of compensation, rather than a replacement.

To receive substandard product and do nothing about it seems baffling to me...

I should clarify that I am friends with a number of PP staff, a couple in the resin casting dept. I was pretty surprised at the quality and did mention it to them, and was surprised at their reaction as well.

They just shrugged and said "yeah, we know" and really didn't seem to want to talk about it.

Apparently they are having a horrible time producing the resin models and have had to push beck several release dates simply because they can't consistently produce good models. One of them showed me a picture of their resin miscast bin, it was the size of a coffee table and he said that was just from the previous week! It might just be the opinion of those two, but there seems to be some kind of "divide" in the company, or at least in their warehouse.

Anyway, one of them said he'd try to get me replacements and check them himself.

PP's resins are -much worse- quality-control wise than Forgeworld. I have a few FW models and other than awkward resin gates, and the odd bubble, I have had little problems. FW conversion pieces however, I've had poor experience with... I have 3 sets of rhino doors / and spaced armor that DO NOT FIT TOGETHER with the kits due to shrinkage... so YMMV. I have zero experience with finecast as I don't like how soft the material is.

For PP products: I find bubbles aren't too bad, but there can be an unacceptable amount of mould slippage on the shipped product. I have the following items in resin:

Behemoth hybrid kit - minor slip moulding that was fixed with putty. Time to fix: <5 mins

Gun Carriage no 1 (Launch batch) - No major issues, other than poor kit design. The hull is way too heavy for the undercarriage. Also, the method of manufacture caused a huge resin ledge on the bottom of the undercarriage. Not a big deal, as it can be left as is if you are not picky. I opted to remove it which was a very laborious task. Some minor mould slip on the undercarriage. Time to prepare: 1 hour.

Gun Carriage no 2 (Launch batch) - Mould slip on the hull and the undercarriage. Time to fix ~1 hour (mostly removing the resin ledge again).

Conquest no. 1 (Launch batch) - Ridiculous quantity of flash on the body. Terrible slip moulding on the hips - 1mm on one side and 1.5mm on the other. Hips had 1mm mould slip. One shoulder was warped from what looks like an early pull. Time to fix ~2 hours

Conquest no. 2 (from 2 Months ago) - Still had the stupid amounts of flash on the body. Seems to be a problem with the mould, as the central hull line causes the mould to tear leaving a mess. Minor mould lines on the hips - easily fixed. Time to fix <30 mins

Judicator (from Launch batch) - Hips were miscast. Missing a chunk where the mould didn't fill - this needed to be resculpted. More bubbles on this kit than any other that I've purchased from PP. Slip moulding issues <1mm on a number of parts. Left fist had mould slip of 1mm which required a knuckle and fingers to be re-sculpted. A number of the resin gates are awkward to remove and I had to spend extra time fixing damage caused by removing them. Time to fix ~ 3 hours

I had a lot of issues with slip casting on my Storm Striders. Like you said, fixable, but a bit time consuming.

My Stormwalls are more or less perfect. It's a really great kit.

My mountain king had a lot of flashing and bubbling on his back (the mountain part). Able to be fixed, but it took a lot of time.

My Troll Gun thing was probably the roughest. Lots of slipped casts on the carriage playform. Didnt fit very flush at all. Lots of gap filling was required. The tuffaloes were pretty much perfect, though.

My experiences with resin have been many and varied. I have purchased resin terrain from numerous companies and got mixed results even within the same companies. FW minis have always been a good experience. The vehicles and accessories have always been a nightmare. Rhino doors are always bent. Always. I have never had one I could just glue on a model out of the box. 4 IG tanks were all in need of hours of work. My Hydra gun barrels were so bent that I finally cut them off and replaced them with brass tubes.

When GW replaced metal, that was it. The method they are using is flawed. The resin type is poor quality. I don't care if you are one of the people who owns 100 fine, fail, crap, etc-cast models and everyone of them was perfect. It doesn't matter. All that it shows is that you spent way to much money on a product that is still inferior to what it replaced, CONSIDERING that there are other forms of resin and better techniques of casting that could have been chosen.

In producing resin, GW did what they have been doing for sometime now. They found a cheaper way to sell you a flawed product. Just like their rules are flawed and just like their business model is flawed.

And before someone jumps up and says how they have so much money and are successful, explain why people are leaving GW, en mass, for other game companies? GW may have respectable profit, but its because they are gouging you for everything they can to make up for the losses of people like me.

 azreal13 wrote:
I don't mind bubble repair.

I mind pieces that have fallen off the sprue and never made it into the blister, I mind weapons breaking off at the fist because of internal bubbles weakening the structure, I mind components being so densely covered with flash that they're unusable, I mind models being so badly cast that they're simply beyond redemption and, worst of all, I hate small bubbles on small details that somehow manage to change something with such subtlety you don't notice until you're taking a brush to it.

All genuine experiences from perhaps half a dozen purchases.

You described fine cast pretty good. The scibor models are pretty solid. Even the swords...had they Ben GW swords they would have been bent or broken. So even the pieces that should be flimsy aren't even flimsy.

My finecast results have been varied, from perfect to unusable. The one and only reason I keep using it is because I can take it back to the local store and get it replaced, no questions asked.

I bought a model from Scibor recently that had quite a bad miscast (some sort of huge air bubble) in the junction between the halberd blade and the shaft of the weapon that required quite a bit of green stuffing to fix up. Another minor gripe was that it had some huge chunks of resin (around half an inch thick) set into some of the parts that proved quite difficult to remove cleanly.

That said the rest of the model was flawless and I would buy again.