Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Rex-Nine wrote:The dark talon has hurricane bolters, so you could use the dakka banner to multiply it's output.

I thought thre firer had to have remained stationary to get the benefits if the dakka banner, so it'd be no good for fliers unless you went into hover mode...

SwampRats45MK wrote:From what I'm seeing here is that once most codexes get updated to sixth (vendetta going up in price or what not) it might be more appealing, my roomate has used it to fair effect in some of our games (coming from someone who uses 2 vendettas). The helldrake is not all that great a comparison imho as most people take it with the baleflamer that can't target the DA flyer in return. Just my 2

Don't forget it can vector strike fliers.

D

 evildrcheese wrote:

Rex-Nine wrote:The dark talon has hurricane bolters, so you could use the dakka banner to multiply it's output.

I thought thre firer had to have remained stationary to get the benefits if the dakka banner, so it'd be no good for fliers unless you went into hover mode...

SwampRats45MK wrote:From what I'm seeing here is that once most codexes get updated to sixth (vendetta going up in price or what not) it might be more appealing, my roomate has used it to fair effect in some of our games (coming from someone who uses 2 vendettas). The helldrake is not all that great a comparison imho as most people take it with the baleflamer that can't target the DA flyer in return. Just my 2

Don't forget it can vector strike fliers.

D

Vehicles can salvo weapons in heavy 4 mode while moving, it just counts as firing a weapon. It's the same story as the land raider crusader firing in heavy 4 mode. Between the salvo banner and the blind effect on the main gun it's a pretty good bomber.

The fighter is just plain terrible. It would be a decent fighter if black sword missiles were s7, but as long as we're talking what iffs grots would be fearsome if they were packing lascannons.

The issue with the DA flyers is that they're being compared to overpowered, over-armored and undercosted units designed for 5E (or suspicously appear as such in the case of the Heldrake) as Skimmer units that were just re-designated fleyrs without adjustment.

relative to other 6E flyers, the DA flyers aren't that bad.

schadenfreude wrote: Vehicles can salvo weapons in heavy 4 mode while moving, it just counts as firing a weapon. It's the same story as the land raider crusader firing in heavy 4 mode. Between the salvo banner and the blind effect on the main gun it's a pretty good bomber.

The fighter is just plain terrible. It would be a decent fighter if black sword missiles were s7, but as long as we're talking what iffs grots would be fearsome if they were packing lascannons.

Oh really? Nice to know, can you provide a page ref/faq ruling to support this, just so I can quote to if/whenI use vechicles with the dakka banner.

D

 evildrcheese wrote:

schadenfreude wrote: Vehicles can salvo weapons in heavy 4 mode while moving, it just counts as firing a weapon. It's the same story as the land raider crusader firing in heavy 4 mode. Between the salvo banner and the blind effect on the main gun it's a pretty good bomber.

The fighter is just plain terrible. It would be a decent fighter if black sword missiles were s7, but as long as we're talking what iffs grots would be fearsome if they were packing lascannons.

Oh really? Nice to know, can you provide a page ref/faq ruling to support this, just so I can quote to if/whenI use vechicles with the dakka banner.

D

All vehicles are relentless, it's in the vehicle rules section somewhere.

Thank you for many different inputs, that I will like to try. What Dark Talon that just fights infantry if I know my enemy isn't bringing AA? Will it be effective?

The problem with the da flyers is their points and their guns . Comparing it to vendettas ,nightsycthes , ect isn't a fair comparison ,but comparing it to a SM storm talon is more in line.

Both have str 6 shooting but the assault cannon is better because of rending plus the missiles are one time use.The storm talon has better main weapon options with either type of missiles making it more versatile .
The talon is also 60(iirc) PTs cheaper you can almost take 3 talons for the cost of 2 da flyers .


Sure you can use the Dakka banner on the flyers but that's another 150 PTs you're spending on bolters which could be better spent else where

if you want AA marines/ speedea do it better
If you want Ai 3 whirlwinds costs a bit more than 1 flyers and can snipe characters
If you want flyers ally in SM for talons and ravens we are BB anyways so the hq tax isn't too terrible

 Insane Smile wrote:
Thank you for many different inputs, that I will like to try. What Dark Talon that just fights infantry if I know my enemy isn't bringing AA? Will it be effective?

Dark talons should grow more powerful as more are used. The bombs synergize well with a 2nd talon's blind cannon, or even better a pair of allied rune priests with jaws in the ultra unfluffy da sw combo.

Why can't we compare it against fliers that are good? The Vendetta exists, and is legal, and DA players will run into them.

As a collector I want to own one. As someone who owns 3 vendettas, one BA SR and one Helldrake I would not be particularly excited to field a DA flyer but I might in a casual game. That flyer should be points costed low.

What points cost DO you think the DA flyers should cost, realistically?

I'd say 100-110 realistically. It's hard to say though. Are the helldrake and Vendetta the appropriate cost? Or are they aberrations?

Martel732 wrote:
Why can't we compare it against fliers that are good? The Vendetta exists, and is legal, and DA players will run into them.

If the Vendetta isn't ~170pts when the Guard book gets updated sometime in the next year, I'll eat my hat...

Both are somewhat-to-gruesomely underpriced

Mind you, if you want to compare to something different compare them to the Blitza Bomma or Burna Bomma.

The Burna Bomma can at least be useful on occasion against a weakly armoured cover-hugging army, but the Blitza is just 135 pts of pure 'win*'

**by win i am of course laughing my keister off at the very prospect... **

GW had its chance in Skies of Blood or whatever. I think a lot of people are going pissed when the IG book drops. I just have a really bad feeling about this. We're stuck with the helldrake at any rate.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

If the Vendetta isn't ~170pts when the Guard book gets updated sometime in the next year, I'll eat my hat...

It'd still be a hundred points too cheap if that's all it was.

Seriously, it is monstrously better than every non-Helldrake flier and they already cost ~170.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

If the Vendetta isn't ~170pts when the Guard book gets updated sometime in the next year, I'll eat my hat...

It'd still be a hundred points too cheap if that's all it was.

Seriously, it is monstrously better than every non-Helldrake flier and they already cost ~170.

You think the Vendetta should cost 270 points? For a glorified LazPred?

Wow.

A more survivable, transporting better damage-output unit is hardly a "glorified laspred". It shouldn't be 270 points, but it sure needs a hefty price increase or an AV reduction to 11 combined with a slight points increase.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
A more survivable, transporting better damage-output unit is hardly a "glorified laspred". It shouldn't be 270 points, but it sure needs a hefty price increase or an AV reduction to 11 combined with a slight points increase.

My prediction is going to be ~160 points, AV12 -> AV11 (still AV10 rear), loses all transport capability. Comes with missiles as standard and the Lascannon are going to be expensive upgrades (probably pushing it over 200 points).

 Daba wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
A more survivable, transporting better damage-output unit is hardly a "glorified laspred". It shouldn't be 270 points, but it sure needs a hefty price increase or an AV reduction to 11 combined with a slight points increase.

My prediction is going to be ~160 points, AV12 -> AV11 (still AV10 rear), loses all transport capability. Comes with missiles as standard and the Lascannon are going to be expensive upgrades (probably pushing it over 200 points).

I predict no price change to th e Valkyrie, and a massive increase to the Vendetta. Probably single tl lc and missile for 130, and upgrade missiles to a 2nd and 3rd tl lc for 40 points. GW still wants to sell the models while purging once popular, so valks will still be good and vendettas meh.

I also think they will at the same time fix hydras.

But enough of predictions and back on topic...

Dark Talon -3I bomb + Jaws=lulz