Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
What I don't understand is why he doesn't just DS the Farseers with them... or did Eldar Jetbikes lose deep strike somewhere along the line?

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
What I don't understand is why he doesn't just DS the Farseers with them... or did Eldar Jetbikes lose deep strike somewhere along the line?

 Iranna wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
What I don't understand is why he doesn't just DS the Farseers with them... or did Eldar Jetbikes lose deep strike somewhere along the line?

They never had it to begin with.

To answer the OP, Wraithguard seem to be the answer in this case. Personally, I'd prefer the Wraithcannons over the D-Scythes in order to ID anything in the unit. Spirit Mark the FarSunBomb, Reveal it from a Warlock and you should guarantee killing 4-5 members, certainly enough to take the teeth out of it.

I also think Wraithcannons would be better due to the Bomb's ability to JSJ - the JetPack move in the assault phase could take the Bomb just out of reach of those flame templates.

Iranna.

 zephoid wrote:
Fortune is at the start of the movement phase.At the start of the movement phase the farsight bomb is not on the board. However, the farseer can cast it on himself. No one is exactly sure what happens when a blessed IC attaches to a non-blessed squad. He becomes part of the squad, but does that confer the blessing? People have been debating yes/no for a long time now, all the way back to 4th ed eldar and i dont think GW has ever faq'd that.

wuestenfux wrote: Well, the problem with Wraithguard is to get close enough. The same holds for Fire Dragons. For this, I'd definitely take Serpents to carry them. But the disembarking move is only 6'' for the Serpents which means that the transports need to be rather close to the death star. The Tau player will see it coming...

 Iranna wrote:

 zephoid wrote:
Fortune is at the start of the movement phase.At the start of the movement phase the farsight bomb is not on the board. However, the farseer can cast it on himself. No one is exactly sure what happens when a blessed IC attaches to a non-blessed squad. He becomes part of the squad, but does that confer the blessing? People have been debating yes/no for a long time now, all the way back to 4th ed eldar and i dont think GW has ever faq'd that.

The Tau player could always elect to do Reserves first and then cast Fortune on the Bomb before joining it. There's no rules disputes there - only the Farseer would not benefit from Fortune if he then joined said unit.

Quark wrote:

There is very much a rules dispute because that's not the order.

1) Beginning of movement phase
1a) Roll for Reserves/Outflank side
1b) Cast Blessings/Maledictions
2) Movement

As per the FAQ, 1a and 1b are interchangeable. They both still come before the actual movement onto the board. Sadly, the FAQ does not remind players that rolling from reserves happens at a different time (and all rolls at once) than the actual movement part.

Rulebook FAQ wrote: Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)
A: They do occur simultaneously – as such, the player whose turn it is decides in what order these things occur as per page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

 zephoid wrote:
As Quark says, moving onto the board is a part of movement. Most people throw the steps together for convenience sake, but they are different. Once you deepstrike the unit ,the time for fortune has already passed. Reserve ROLLS are made at the same time as blessings, but not the actual deepstrike or move onto the board.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Eldar jetbikes cannot deep strike. But their turbo boost allows to join the Farsun unit in almost no time.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

Eldar jetbikes cannot deep strike. But their turbo boost allows to join the Farsun unit in almost no time.

You can't join a unit with Turbo-boost.

 Iranna wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

Eldar jetbikes cannot deep strike. But their turbo boost allows to join the Farsun unit in almost no time.

You can't join a unit with Turbo-boost.

But when they come in turn 2 you're in a prime position to join them...?

Iranna.

AnonAmbientLight wrote:
I'm guilty of theory crafting a farsight bomb / farsun bomb list, but the point cost just turns me off to the point that i don't take it because it doesn't seem valid, and well rounded.

I do have a friend that i play regularly that uses IG though. I would most certainly do a farsight bomb on him with dual, non TL flamers and BC (maybe a fusion blaster to zap his warlord that he puts on the quad gun) all with target lock and watch him rage as i destroy his precious IG gun line hiding behind the ADL. The cowards, the fools! They thought the ADL would save them. Bwahahah

 Iranna wrote:

But when they come in turn 2 you're in a prime position to join them...?

 Iranna wrote:

AnonAmbientLight wrote:
I'm guilty of theory crafting a farsight bomb / farsun bomb list, but the point cost just turns me off to the point that i don't take it because it doesn't seem valid, and well rounded.

I do have a friend that i play regularly that uses IG though. I would most certainly do a farsight bomb on him with dual, non TL flamers and BC (maybe a fusion blaster to zap his warlord that he puts on the quad gun) all with target lock and watch him rage as i destroy his precious IG gun line hiding behind the ADL. The cowards, the fools! They thought the ADL would save them. Bwahahah

Do you also wish to destroy his METAHL BAWKSES?!

Iranna.

pantsonhead wrote:
I had thought that units move on from Reserves as if moving, while psykers cast blessings at the start of the movement phase, which can be before or after you roll for Reserves. The FAQ is clarifying that a Farseer can cast Scrier's Gaze before rolling for Reserves, for example. You don't deploy units in Reserve "at the start of the Movement Phase", I don't think. Clearly they move on only after you roll for Reserves, which happens at the start of your turn, and we're not told that they arrive on the table "immediately" after the roll. Edit: Looking at past topics, though, it seems like the statement that outflank rolls and reserve rolls occur simultaneously implies that reserves arrive simultaneously with casting blessings. So I suppose this works. And this makes me pretty happy, since I was playing it where I couldn't cast Guide on my Crimson Hunters on the turn they arrive.

In this case it seems like killing the Farseer is a priority, if you're not going to just bring tons of d-scythes. The Seer also has to move into position before the bomb drops, so the Seer restricts where he's going to place it. With a mobile army you could just move so as to stay outside of that danger zone, which is going to be possible if the Seer is hanging back. If the Seer advances up to the middle of the board, it should be pretty killable.

 zephoid wrote:
As Quark says, moving onto the board is a part of movement. Most people throw the steps together for convenience sake, but they are different. Once you deepstrike the unit ,the time for fortune has already passed. Reserve ROLLS are made at the same time as blessings, but not the actual deepstrike or move onto the board.

 ibushi wrote:
Does the Farsun bomb get hit & run?

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Iranna wrote:

But when they come in turn 2 you're in a prime position to join them...?

Seems like a good way to get the Farseer killed to me. Turbo-boosting around without a squad waiting to die on one failed save.

MilkmanAl wrote:
You could always spare yourself the headache of trying to make your Farseer meet up with your Farsight bomb as planned by not deep striking in the first place. I find the ability to assault move 3D6" markedly more valuable than being able to precision deep strike (and miss out on at least a turn of spewing insane firepower in the process).

Matt2429 wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

Matt2429 wrote:
So my buddy has decided to start a cheese factory and play the Farsight / Shadowsun bomb with farseer support for fortune. this also includes a guy that give the squad ignore cover and twin linked and can shoot multiple different targets due to target lock. What he does is he deep strikes because Farsight does not scatter if he is your warlord and basically obliterates anything he is within 18 inches of. he gets a fortune 4+ cover save in the open and 2+ in cover. How does Eldar deal with this? I have not been able to find a counter that acctually works vs this and am at the point of not wanting to play him anymore. I have lost to this build 11 times and have yet to beat it. I can't figure out a workable counter to this as he ignores cover from all of his shooting units (pathfinders with marker lights).

Any ideas would be great to help me close this chees factory. I don't want to build a list specifically to counter this but I have no clue how to counter this as anything within 18 inches is dead.

you strip shrouding with Warlocks. Then it has a 6+ cover save in the open. You then pound it with str8 AP3 weapons until they all die.

thats kind of a stretch isin't it? you have 1 in 6 chance of rolling that power and asusming you have multiple warlocks and get the power a few times there is still a farseer in that squad that can re roll deny the witch on a 3+

Zagman wrote:
A Blessing cannot be cast upon the Bomb the turn it arrives from DS.

PG 124 under the Arriving from Reserve section "Reserve Rolls" are clearly defined.

BRB FAQ Pg7

Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement
phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves
rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)
A: They do occursimultaneously – as such, the player whose
turn it is decides in what orderthese things occur as per
page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.


The rolls are indeed make simultaneously with the Blessings, but all rolls are required to be finished before units are placed upon the table. It is not Roll unit, deploy unit, roll next. It is Reserves Roll -->Deploy reserves. Blessings occur simultaneously with only the Reserve Rolls, this is in place for physic powers ie Scryer's Gaze to work properly.

There is a clear order, Reserve Rolls, then once all Reserve Rolls are made you have permission to deploy units. Blessings are simultaneous with Reserve rolls and are completed before a unit hits the table. Anyone playing otherwise is not Playing RAW or by the FAQ.

anonymou5 wrote:

Zagman wrote:
A Blessing cannot be cast upon the Bomb the turn it arrives from DS.

PG 124 under the Arriving from Reserve section "Reserve Rolls" are clearly defined.

BRB FAQ Pg7

Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement
phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves
rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)
A: They do occursimultaneously – as such, the player whose
turn it is decides in what orderthese things occur as per
page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.


The rolls are indeed make simultaneously with the Blessings, but all rolls are required to be finished before units are placed upon the table. It is not Roll unit, deploy unit, roll next. It is Reserves Roll -->Deploy reserves. Blessings occur simultaneously with only the Reserve Rolls, this is in place for physic powers ie Scryer's Gaze to work properly.

There is a clear order, Reserve Rolls, then once all Reserve Rolls are made you have permission to deploy units. Blessings are simultaneous with Reserve rolls and are completed before a unit hits the table. Anyone playing otherwise is not Playing RAW or by the FAQ.

This is actually heavily debated, and most major tournies have gone the other way with it. So, I'd say leave it to "You Make the Call"

Zagman wrote:

anonymou5 wrote:

Zagman wrote:
A Blessing cannot be cast upon the Bomb the turn it arrives from DS.

PG 124 under the Arriving from Reserve section "Reserve Rolls" are clearly defined.

BRB FAQ Pg7

Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement
phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves
rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)
A: They do occursimultaneously – as such, the player whose
turn it is decides in what orderthese things occur as per
page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.


The rolls are indeed make simultaneously with the Blessings, but all rolls are required to be finished before units are placed upon the table. It is not Roll unit, deploy unit, roll next. It is Reserves Roll -->Deploy reserves. Blessings occur simultaneously with only the Reserve Rolls, this is in place for physic powers ie Scryer's Gaze to work properly.

There is a clear order, Reserve Rolls, then once all Reserve Rolls are made you have permission to deploy units. Blessings are simultaneous with Reserve rolls and are completed before a unit hits the table. Anyone playing otherwise is not Playing RAW or by the FAQ.

This is actually heavily debated, and most major tournies have gone the other way with it. So, I'd say leave it to "You Make the Call"

It is hotly debated, but the rules read quite clear. Any confusion is on the players and TOs for not reading the RAW and FAQ.