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So my buddy has decided to start a cheese factory and play the Farsight / Shadowsun bomb with farseer support for fortune. this also includes a guy that give the squad ignore cover and twin linked and can shoot multiple different targets due to target lock. What he does is he deep strikes because Farsight does not scatter if he is your warlord and basically obliterates anything he is within 18 inches of. he gets a fortune 4+ cover save in the open and 2+ in cover. How does Eldar deal with this? I have not been able to find a counter that acctually works vs this and am at the point of not wanting to play him anymore. I have lost to this build 11 times and have yet to beat it. I can't figure out a workable counter to this as he ignores cover from all of his shooting units (pathfinders with marker lights).

Any ideas would be great to help me close this chees factory. I don't want to build a list specifically to counter this but I have no clue how to counter this as anything within 18 inches is dead.

Matt2429 wrote:
So my buddy has decided to start a cheese factory and play the Farsight / Shadowsun bomb with farseer support for fortune. this also includes a guy that give the squad ignore cover and twin linked and can shoot multiple different targets due to target lock. What he does is he deep strikes because Farsight does not scatter if he is your warlord and basically obliterates anything he is within 18 inches of. he gets a fortune 4+ cover save in the open and 2+ in cover. How does Eldar deal with this? I have not been able to find a counter that acctually works vs this and am at the point of not wanting to play him anymore. I have lost to this build 11 times and have yet to beat it. I can't figure out a workable counter to this as he ignores cover from all of his shooting units (pathfinders with marker lights).

Any ideas would be great to help me close this chees factory. I don't want to build a list specifically to counter this but I have no clue how to counter this as anything within 18 inches is dead.

Allied Grey Knights for Warp Quake?

what does warp quake do?

Matt2429 wrote:
So my buddy has decided to start a cheese factory and play the Farsight / Shadowsun bomb with farseer support for fortune. this also includes a guy that give the squad ignore cover and twin linked and can shoot multiple different targets due to target lock. What he does is he deep strikes because Farsight does not scatter if he is your warlord and basically obliterates anything he is within 18 inches of. he gets a fortune 4+ cover save in the open and 2+ in cover. How does Eldar deal with this? I have not been able to find a counter that acctually works vs this and am at the point of not wanting to play him anymore. I have lost to this build 11 times and have yet to beat it. I can't figure out a workable counter to this as he ignores cover from all of his shooting units (pathfinders with marker lights).

Any ideas would be great to help me close this chees factory. I don't want to build a list specifically to counter this but I have no clue how to counter this as anything within 18 inches is dead.

you strip shrouding with Warlocks. Then it has a 6+ cover save in the open. You then pound it with str8 AP3 weapons until they all die.

 Exergy wrote:

Matt2429 wrote:
So my buddy has decided to start a cheese factory and play the Farsight / Shadowsun bomb with farseer support for fortune. this also includes a guy that give the squad ignore cover and twin linked and can shoot multiple different targets due to target lock. What he does is he deep strikes because Farsight does not scatter if he is your warlord and basically obliterates anything he is within 18 inches of. he gets a fortune 4+ cover save in the open and 2+ in cover. How does Eldar deal with this? I have not been able to find a counter that acctually works vs this and am at the point of not wanting to play him anymore. I have lost to this build 11 times and have yet to beat it. I can't figure out a workable counter to this as he ignores cover from all of his shooting units (pathfinders with marker lights).

Any ideas would be great to help me close this chees factory. I don't want to build a list specifically to counter this but I have no clue how to counter this as anything within 18 inches is dead.

you strip shrouding with Warlocks. Then it has a 6+ cover save in the open. You then pound it with str8 AP3 weapons until they all die.

thats kind of a stretch isin't it? you have 1 in 6 chance of rolling that power and asusming you have multiple warlocks and get the power a few times there is still a farseer in that squad that can re roll deny the witch on a 3+

So he is deep striking shadowsun, farsight, and a farsear, all with a giant bodyguard?

He can't have much on the table if he's spending that much on his deep strike unit.

Also warp quake would be absolutely hilarious. Did they ever FAQ the "stack warp quake until they roll unit destroyed" thing? If not then it would truly be a hilarious way to screw such an annoying strategy.

Matt2429 wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

Matt2429 wrote:
So my buddy has decided to start a cheese factory and play the Farsight / Shadowsun bomb with farseer support for fortune. this also includes a guy that give the squad ignore cover and twin linked and can shoot multiple different targets due to target lock. What he does is he deep strikes because Farsight does not scatter if he is your warlord and basically obliterates anything he is within 18 inches of. he gets a fortune 4+ cover save in the open and 2+ in cover. How does Eldar deal with this? I have not been able to find a counter that acctually works vs this and am at the point of not wanting to play him anymore. I have lost to this build 11 times and have yet to beat it. I can't figure out a workable counter to this as he ignores cover from all of his shooting units (pathfinders with marker lights).

Any ideas would be great to help me close this chees factory. I don't want to build a list specifically to counter this but I have no clue how to counter this as anything within 18 inches is dead.

you strip shrouding with Warlocks. Then it has a 6+ cover save in the open. You then pound it with str8 AP3 weapons until they all die.

thats kind of a stretch isin't it? you have 1 in 6 chance of rolling that power and asusming you have multiple warlocks and get the power a few times there is still a farseer in that squad that can re roll deny the witch on a 3+

Then Wraithguard in a waveserpent with flamers. Run up. He can split fire but cannot shoot the WS and the troops inside. It will take a 5-6 shots to take down each WS even with ignores cover as pens will be neglected. Then even with JSJ you should be able to get some things into flame range.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Matt2429 wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

Matt2429 wrote:
So my buddy has decided to start a cheese factory and play the Farsight / Shadowsun bomb with farseer support for fortune. this also includes a guy that give the squad ignore cover and twin linked and can shoot multiple different targets due to target lock. What he does is he deep strikes because Farsight does not scatter if he is your warlord and basically obliterates anything he is within 18 inches of. he gets a fortune 4+ cover save in the open and 2+ in cover. How does Eldar deal with this? I have not been able to find a counter that acctually works vs this and am at the point of not wanting to play him anymore. I have lost to this build 11 times and have yet to beat it. I can't figure out a workable counter to this as he ignores cover from all of his shooting units (pathfinders with marker lights).

Any ideas would be great to help me close this chees factory. I don't want to build a list specifically to counter this but I have no clue how to counter this as anything within 18 inches is dead.

you strip shrouding with Warlocks. Then it has a 6+ cover save in the open. You then pound it with str8 AP3 weapons until they all die.

thats kind of a stretch isin't it? you have 1 in 6 chance of rolling that power and asusming you have multiple warlocks and get the power a few times there is still a farseer in that squad that can re roll deny the witch on a 3+

how is the FS deepstriking in with the squad?

Sorry I should clarify. The farseer is not deep striking however he is on a jet bike and joins the sqaud after the first turn it is in play.

Didn't know wraith guards could take flamers???? thats something I must have missed in the new dex.

Matt2429 wrote:
what does warp quake do?

Warp Quake is a Grey Knight psychic power that several of the units get.

Once cast, any units that deep strikes within a certain distance of a unit that has cast this power will automatically mishap.

Conceal/Reveal is a primaris power so you'll always have it. On the other hand Fortune is a random power which he won't always roll.

Matt2429 wrote:
Sorry I should clarify. The farseer is not deep striking however he is on a jet bike and joins the sqaud after the first turn it is in play.

Didn't know wraith guards could take flamers???? thats something I must have missed in the new dex.

AP2 flamers at that


Automatically Appended Next Post:

macexor wrote:
Conceal/Reveal is a primaris power so you'll always have it. On the other hand Fortune is a random power which he won't always roll.

that is what i thought, but was not sure

doesn't reveal strip shroud AND stealth?

the hard part is getting within 18" BEFORE your next movement since it is cast before you move means he gets a chance to move outside of 18" of you, so unless you jet bike into his face and hope his 6" move plus jsj dibt get him far enough away....

and that he doesn't kill you dead like a dog....

Matt2429 wrote:
what does warp quake do?

You want to deep strike near that strike squad? Too bad, try it and die. Before the new daemons codex the Grey Knights could literally ensure a Daemons player would auto lose by just spreading out strike squads to make sure they couldn't deploy anywhere. This was seen as a colossal douche move, majorly uncool, and only the most loathesome of players lament this tactic's disappearance.

 Dr. What wrote:

Matt2429 wrote:
what does warp quake do?

Warp Quake is a Grey Knight psychic power that several of the units get.

Well, "several" is just Strike Squads and Interceptors. Still, two ten man units of Strike Squads, combat squad them, and you'll have a pretty good coverage area.

As mentioned before, the Farsun bomb doesn't work well against the AP2 cover ignoring distort flamers on Wraithguard.

The 1000 points your opponent spends on the farsun squad will buy you 3 squads with waveserpent transport.

Also, Tau have a problem with Night spinners.

Scytheguard totally hose the Farsight bomb. If they deepstrike in, roast 'em with 5 Ap 2 Insta-death flamers. Fortune won't save you from that.

Durandal wrote:
As mentioned before, the Farsun bomb doesn't work well against the AP2 cover ignoring distort flamers on Wraithguard.

The 1000 points your opponent spends on the farsun squad will buy you 3 squads with waveserpent transport.

Also, Tau have a problem with Night spinners.

I can't find the wraith flamers anywhere in the Dex. can you please point me in the right direction? preferably a page? or is this one of those special rules that is in the iyanden supplement?

Matt2429 wrote:

Durandal wrote:
As mentioned before, the Farsun bomb doesn't work well against the AP2 cover ignoring distort flamers on Wraithguard.

The 1000 points your opponent spends on the farsun squad will buy you 3 squads with waveserpent transport.

Also, Tau have a problem with Night spinners.

I can't find the wraith flamers anywhere in the Dex. can you please point me in the right direction? preferably a page?

D-Scythe.

 n0t_u wrote:

Matt2429 wrote:

Durandal wrote:
As mentioned before, the Farsun bomb doesn't work well against the AP2 cover ignoring distort flamers on Wraithguard.

The 1000 points your opponent spends on the farsun squad will buy you 3 squads with waveserpent transport.

Also, Tau have a problem with Night spinners.

I can't find the wraith flamers anywhere in the Dex. can you please point me in the right direction? preferably a page?

D-Scythe.

to my knowledge this is only available from the wraith fighter. Is this what your referring to? I can't find any entry that allows wraith guards to take d scythe's

NIght spinners work wonders. S8 Rending torrent flamer. Destroys about 1/3 of the unit on each of those night spinner. Reserve them as long as you have an autarch in your army and you can have a 30" range when you come in.

The guard can take normal D-Scythes as mentioned in their entry on page 99. The wraithfighter gets heavy D-Scythes which are 18" blast weapons instead.

 n0t_u wrote:
The guard can take normal D-Scythes as mentioned in their entry on page 99. The wraithfighter gets heavy D-Scythes which are 18" blast weapons instead.

Thank you for point this out to me. I will now crawl back under my rock as apparently I missed it right in my face.

Bring the rock with you to drop on the farsun bomb.

To sum up:

Reveal is the warlock Primaris - it negs Shroud only. (The buff side is Conceal - gives unit shroud).
Add D-scythes to the mix on your wraithguard. S4 AP2 instant death on 6's flamers.
When in doubt - add in Suncannon.
If the unit is NOT fearless; add in wraithfighter to make it run away (combine with possible warlock power that makes unit -3 leadership).
Feel free to also add in some warlocks and hope for Jinx to neg their armour by 1.
Dark reapers can eat 3+ armour.
Fire Prisms can eat 3+ armour.
Shurikens can be AP2 if you fire enough at them. Combine with Jinx so they fail 50% anyway.
Farseer rolling Misfortune on the div table can cancel out your opponents Fortune power and can ALSO screw him over if he doesn't roll Fortune in the first place.
Illic + Pathfinders can be used to kill off the bodyguard that has all the signature systems. Illic is AP2; and has precision shots on all his. Pathfinders also have precision shots on all hits. Rangers have precision shots on 6's to hit. The bodyguard won't get a LOS roll like Farsight or Shadowsun; thus making him very vulnerable to the AP2 sniper rifle that has ID on 6's and is on BS9...

Bringing 700-1000 points to kill a 1000-1100 point deathstar is nothing to be afraid about. And a lot of these units are brutal at eating up what is left of his force.

Reveal is the primaris power you are correct. However, you are totally incorrect by stating that it only negates shroud.

Conceal/reveal clearly states a single enemy unit within 18" loses BOTH STEALTH AND SHROUDED. Therefore he no longer has a bonus to his cover save and can be easily negated when in the open.

Prisms are the most effective ap3 killer in the game next to the hell turkey. Please please take 3 and watch them hate you for it lol.

syranas wrote:
To sum up:

Reveal is the warlock Primaris - it negs Shroud only. (The buff side is Conceal - gives unit shroud).
Add D-scythes to the mix on your wraithguard. S4 AP2 instant death on 6's flamers.
When in doubt - add in Suncannon.
If the unit is NOT fearless; add in wraithfighter to make it run away (combine with possible warlock power that makes unit -3 leadership).
Feel free to also add in some warlocks and hope for Jinx to neg their armour by 1.
Dark reapers can eat 3+ armour.
Fire Prisms can eat 3+ armour.
Shurikens can be AP2 if you fire enough at them. Combine with Jinx so they fail 50% anyway.
Farseer rolling Misfortune on the div table can cancel out your opponents Fortune power and can ALSO screw him over if he doesn't roll Fortune in the first place.
Illic + Pathfinders can be used to kill off the bodyguard that has all the signature systems. Illic is AP2; and has precision shots on all his. Pathfinders also have precision shots on all hits. Rangers have precision shots on 6's to hit. The bodyguard won't get a LOS roll like Farsight or Shadowsun; thus making him very vulnerable to the AP2 sniper rifle that has ID on 6's and is on BS9...

Bringing 700-1000 points to kill a 1000-1100 point deathstar is nothing to be afraid about. And a lot of these units are brutal at eating up what is left of his force.

Nope. Codex Eldar p. 70.

So everyone is clear, the Farseer can't cast anything on the Farsight bomb in the same turn that it deep strikes, I don't think. Same reason that a psyker in reserve can't cast a power either before or after appearing on the table. So they're vulnerable in the first turn after they drop.

It's certainly a strong unit, but Broadsides are scarier, I think. Remember that he has to declare what all of the suits are shooting at before resolving any of the shots, so he can't fire at one thing until it dies and then move on to the next.

My understanding is that the bomb can DS in without scattering, split fire, and then assault move 2d6. They need to be within 12" to really maximize firepower, but can do a respectable job at 18". That puts them about 14-24" or 20-30" away from whatever they shot at the end of the turn.

So you want to position so as to force him to DS where his assault move can't get him away from your counterpunch. You don't want a concave line of units that he can drop in just 12" away from and then end up 24+" away from anything you're left with that can fire back. A convex line forces him to deploy closer to some things than others, or on the other side of the line (and if you have other units behind your line this doesn't help him much).

Vulnerable units like Dark Reapers are to be avoided. War Walkers are probably out too. Skimmers need to protect their rear armor so that at least the bomb can't shoot more than 1 skimmer in the back.

A Wraithknight is going to be a huge threat to a unit like that, but only insofar as it has to stay far enough away to not get charged. It's fantastic for area denial. Scytheguard are the best thing you've got, but if Farsight kills their Serpent they won't have any chance of reaching the unit.

With that kind of cover save, you're best off just using weight of fire if you can't chase them down in CC or ignore their cover (like the WK and scytheguard can). Nightspinners are better than Fire Prisms against T4 3+/4++, and Vaul's Wrath weavers are a great budget option. A standard SL/SC Serpent inflicts about 3 wounds to T4 3+/4++ with a full round of firing.

Edit: Reveal just isn't viable. The bomb will never be within 18" of a Warlock at the start of your turn. That assault move will make sure of that.

Psykers can cast spells on units arriving from reserve.

Psykers can't cast spells on the turn THEY arrive from reserve (or at least not ones at the beginning of the turn)

Isn't that correct?

I had thought that units move on from Reserves as if moving, while psykers cast blessings at the start of the movement phase, which can be before or after you roll for Reserves. The FAQ is clarifying that a Farseer can cast Scrier's Gaze before rolling for Reserves, for example. You don't deploy units in Reserve "at the start of the Movement Phase", I don't think. Clearly they move on only after you roll for Reserves, which happens at the start of your turn, and we're not told that they arrive on the table "immediately" after the roll. Edit: Looking at past topics, though, it seems like the statement that outflank rolls and reserve rolls occur simultaneously implies that reserves arrive simultaneously with casting blessings. So I suppose this works. And this makes me pretty happy, since I was playing it where I couldn't cast Guide on my Crimson Hunters on the turn they arrive.

In this case it seems like killing the Farseer is a priority, if you're not going to just bring tons of d-scythes. The Seer also has to move into position before the bomb drops, so the Seer restricts where he's going to place it. With a mobile army you could just move so as to stay outside of that danger zone, which is going to be possible if the Seer is hanging back. If the Seer advances up to the middle of the board, it should be pretty killable.

What I don't understand is why he doesn't just DS the Farseers with them... or did Eldar Jetbikes lose deep strike somewhere along the line?