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Why do people always confuse barrage with ordnance?

Read the barrage rules, it's right there.

I don't know but I keep running into a guard player who doesn't know the guard rules at all at my local FLGS. Last time I saw him he had a Master of ord. as his warlord and he was rolling 2 d6 and adding it togeher for armor pen when he was shooting with his leman Russes, like he was shooting melta rounds, however I had to explain that the Demolisher and standard LRBT can't do that.

Corollax wrote:Necrons bring a trio of jinking AV13 vehicles for 270 points. Their dedicated transports bring all that and 4 HP for just 115.

That kind of high-AV efficiency will strain even the most overwhelming anti-tank firepower.

I really haven't found this to be much of a problem, myself. Yes, they have AV13 and have +1HP, but they're also open-topped. It's not THAT difficult to cause vehicle explosion results on them. Hell, when that barge lord flies close enough, or you deepstrike in some stormies, or zoom up some multimeltas, those weapons cause a vehicle explosion result on a 3+.

Necron vehicles are only a problem if you're trying to kill vehicles the dumb way by stripping hull points with low-S weapons.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
Exactly, we have Gauss and Haywire-guns for that.

On another note: Please remember that almost every Necron vehicle is Open-Topped.
From a simple rocket that doubles the chance for an explode.

Yep, and if the penetration doesn't kill it, an autocannon or a multilaser will.

Just gonna throw this out there, AV13 is still AV13. It's just below the best armour you can take.

An S7 autocannon will only glance on a 6. I don't even know if a multilaser can do anything. Strength 7 is for light vehicles and heavy infantry, AV12 at MOST, but better against AV11 or 10. Long-range, high strength, low AP is the way to go against AV13.

But the weapons you're proposing don't have much of a chance to reliably take out a single vehicle nevermind a spam. The more turns/units you have to spend shooting at one vehicle, the less time and firepower you have to take out the rest.

 Elector wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
Exactly, we have Gauss and Haywire-guns for that.

On another note: Please remember that almost every Necron vehicle is Open-Topped.
From a simple rocket that doubles the chance for an explode.

Yep, and if the penetration doesn't kill it, an autocannon or a multilaser will.

Just gonna throw this out there, AV13 is still AV13. It's just below the best armour you can take.

An S7 autocannon will only glance on a 6. I don't even know if a multilaser can do anything. Strength 7 is for light vehicles and heavy infantry, AV12 at MOST, but better against AV11 or 10. Long-range, high strength, low AP is the way to go against AV13.

But the weapons you're proposing don't have much of a chance to reliably take out a single vehicle nevermind a spam. The more turns/units you have to spend shooting at one vehicle, the less time and firepower you have to take out the rest.

If you penetrate it, it becomes AV11. That's why an autocannon will kill it, hell multilasers can probably kill it.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
There's no AV 13 fliers, though, are there?
Are there? If so I haven't heard of them...

The Caestus Assault Ram, but it costs more than a land raider points wise and has to hover to unload it's ten terminators. Which typically means it's dead within seconds.

J0kerrMT wrote:
What page in the rulebook says artillery (ordinance) hits side armor?

Also: Besides Vendettas is there any other ant-air unit that is worth taking?

It's not artillery that hits on side, it's barrage weapons. Check out the second bullet point on pg 34

Barrage does. Ordinance is common name used in our world but in 40k Ordinance is type of weapon even if it's normal cannon.

stewy37 wrote:

J0kerrMT wrote:
What page in the rulebook says artillery (ordinance) hits side armor?

Also: Besides Vendettas is there any other ant-air unit that is worth taking?

It's not artillery that hits on side, it's barrage weapons. Check out the second bullet point on pg 34

barrage =/= ordinance. Completely different set of rules, though it is possible to have an ordinance barrage weapon.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

stewy37 wrote:

J0kerrMT wrote:
What page in the rulebook says artillery (ordinance) hits side armor?

Also: Besides Vendettas is there any other ant-air unit that is worth taking?

It's not artillery that hits on side, it's barrage weapons. Check out the second bullet point on pg 34

barrage =/= ordinance. Completely different set of rules, though it is possible to have an ordinance barrage weapon.

Like everyone's favorite "range longer than any playing field you'll ever find for it" gun, the Basilisk!

 Kain wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

stewy37 wrote:

J0kerrMT wrote:
What page in the rulebook says artillery (ordinance) hits side armor?

Also: Besides Vendettas is there any other ant-air unit that is worth taking?

It's not artillery that hits on side, it's barrage weapons. Check out the second bullet point on pg 34

barrage =/= ordinance. Completely different set of rules, though it is possible to have an ordinance barrage weapon.

Like everyone's favorite "range longer than any playing field you'll ever find for it" gun, the Basilisk!

Yep, though I don't see it on the field anymore :(

In fact, the last time I saw a basilisk was in an Iron Warriors army back in 4th ed.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

stewy37 wrote:

J0kerrMT wrote:
What page in the rulebook says artillery (ordinance) hits side armor?

Also: Besides Vendettas is there any other ant-air unit that is worth taking?

It's not artillery that hits on side, it's barrage weapons. Check out the second bullet point on pg 34

barrage =/= ordinance. Completely different set of rules, though it is possible to have an ordinance barrage weapon.

Like everyone's favorite "range longer than any playing field you'll ever find for it" gun, the Basilisk!

Yep, though I don't see it on the field anymore :(

In fact, the last time I saw a basilisk was in an Iron Warriors army back in 4th ed.

Most people prefer the Manticore or Russ these days.

 BryllCream wrote:
How does guard deal with AV 13 spam?

Lascannons. Next question.

Lascannons, lascannons, lascannons. Guard can spam lascannons like no tomorrow, so take advantage of it.

 DemetriDominov wrote:
Feth it. Deathstrike them. It's the only way to be sure.

'

You. I like you. You have the right idea.

 BryllCream wrote:
Right but assuming i'm not going to drop £60 on one and I don't have the ability to proxy one.

If you can't do it with the models you have, I'm going to bet most advice that is going to work is going to cost you money.

-Matt

Anny with orks and get a Lifta Droppa I'm thinking this will be a good answer to guard tank spam

but even with the necron vehicles. i mean you drop a vet+melta squad beside a ghost arc and strip its shielding with a pen. then blow it out of the water with the other stuff in your army. after quantum shieldings gone, even a single multilaser would do it in for good