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The only flyer that you have to deal with is the Heldrake with a Baleflamer, but otherwise you can afford to ignore them generally. Of course, if they're spamming 3+ flyers then they're definitely an irritant and require some countering.

Group where I play has very little flyers, I got my Valkyrie purely because its magnificent model in my eyes, and I am getting the Vulture because gatling canon strafing runs.

I tend to ask my opponents if they want to use flyers. I don't think flyers add very much at all to the game and should be represented by strategic benefits like orbital bombardment or the Guard MOO.

Some people dont like the flier rules as a whole, i dont either i think theyre dumb. Light fliers make sense, theyre hard to hit but if you do hit them they die most of the time and impose a high risk high reward. But most of the fliers that are actually used are durable as hell and still fairly cheap. It shouldnt have the Hard to Hit rule and AV12...thats just ridiculous.

Ive noticed the games are usually much more enjoyable if there are no fliers. Usually my friends (or atleast before the group fell apart, now its just me and one other) roll off for fliers or not rather than outright ban them...though now my only opponent is CSM and of course he cant figure out how to play them without a chicken or two (which pretty much are bulletmagnets for his termies/Blackheart groups since the chickens usually die when they show up). I think he would do better ignoring them since he usually gets to shoot them once if at all.

I dont even use the ork fliers when im not playing tau. I have 3 dakkajets, but theyre underwhelming to me so i almost never use them.
EDIT: Actually i have 5 dakkajets lol but 2 are unassembled and still factory sealed. I had a ~3000pt army with proper competitive models and whatnot and got my hands on a 1250USD new in box lot of orks for half off that was basically 2 of everything except bosses, buggies, and battleforce. I havnt even touched most of it lol, im keeping the dakkajets because if i get into a 2k double foc group i'd love to dick around with the 3 Weirdboy + 6 Dakkajets combo (4th HQ being a KFF to try and protect what ground i got) just to be an ass lol

However, without hard to hit, a stormraven becomes an AV12 landraider.

For its point cost, the Stormraven is fine. Its the Vendetta that is the problem. It really should be 200ish points for what it gets you. And at that point it would be fair.

Of course Vendettas were broken before they became Flyers. That just made it worse.

Stormraven is the only AV12 flier that is pretty balanced, since its expensive and has a lot of uses. That one i have no complaints about. Its every other flier thats AV12.

Vendetta makes no sense to be AV12 to me, its so damn scrawny why is that AV12 and Dakkajets AV10 when theres not much girth difference?

My gaming group consist of 2 other people who play Tau and IG.... I dont bring flyers because they are useless against said armies.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Stormraven is the only AV12 flier that is pretty balanced, since its expensive and has a lot of uses. That one i have no complaints about. Its every other flier thats AV12.

Vendetta makes no sense to be AV12 to me, its so damn scrawny why is that AV12 and Dakkajets AV10 when theres not much girth difference?

Because the Emperor said so.

Both locations I frequent have many players using flyers. The only reason I don't is because I haven't bought any yet (though I may be able to borrow a Helldrake for my Chaos army.) It's looking like a sort of arms race and so far my only defense is Dark Angels geared towards anti-air.

 Kain wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
At the point level you play at, its a wonder any vehicles are used.

40k in general is not designed to be played below 1500. Its a very unbalanced game, with a heavy slant towards IG, Orks, and Nids. Simply because they can meet the minimum requirements faster and get more stuff.

Compare to Space marines. Who have to spend a minimum of 440 points to meet the minimum troop requirements, because they have to have max squads to get any special/heavy weapons. That gives them only a few points to spend on upgrades or other units to bring better firepower.

You're group isn't using flyers most likely because they can't.


As for missing out on the game. Yes, I'd say you are missing out on most of what the game has to offer.

HQ
Company Command Squad
TROOPS
2x Veteran Squad
HEAVY SUPPORT
2x Leman Russ Battle Tank
490 points of pure goodness.

Where is your god now?

HQ
Haemonculus
ELITES
3 Trueborn w/ Double cannon
TROOPS
3 wracks + Venom
3 wracks + Venom
HEAVY SUPPORT
Ravager
Ravager

496pts

The Eladrith Ynneas need no gods!

When my group inched into 6th ed we had a period when no one wanted a flyer. Then a new guys came, he had flyer(s!) and we had to adapt. I don't blame him, for now I have a razorwing which I love, its a leap, take it if you want, but you don't have to take to the skies

Generally speaking our FLGS' normal crowd doesn't take fliers or doesn't take more than 2 for friendly games. There's still the WAAC bastards floating around (3 of them) that spam the nonsense outta their lists, then again, they only play each other since no one wants to play them.

No flier games are fun to play with this edition, but that said you cannot be complacent and never use fliers, you have to get used to them and how they work, as well as how to take them down.

I thinking see so much flyer spam has really turned me off of flyers and how nasty they are

zilka86 wrote:
I thinking see so much flyer spam has really turned me off of flyers and how nasty they are

Actually sit down a make a house rule... what we did, for the first 6months of 6th, max 1 flyer per list. Then in January, the gloves came off. Everyone had July to December to figure out what they wanted to do about it, and with 1 here and 1 there, they could evaluate the problems flyers can cause. Now I have 2 StormTalons and 1 Storm Raven, another guy runs three Valks, another 2 Storm Eagles.

Flyers will become much less of a problem when more codices are moved to 6th and the prices updated. Currently, what's destabilizing the flyer issue are the good flyers (Hellturkey and Vendetta), which would be excellent units even if they weren't flyers. No one bats an eye at Dakka jets or Nephilims, so hopefully as the codices get updated, they'll balance out. Except the Helldrake, but hopefully the prevalence of reasonable anti-air will keep it in check as the edition moves forward.

I'd personally dislike playing in a group that banned flyers. But I'm just speaking as some guy on the internet who hasn't rolled dice in almost two years.

 Blacksails wrote:
Flyers will become much less of a problem when more codices are moved to 6th and the prices updated. Currently, what's destabilizing the flyer issue are the good flyers (Hellturkey and Vendetta), which would be excellent units even if they weren't flyers. No one bats an eye at Dakka jets or Nephilims, so hopefully as the codices get updated, they'll balance out. Except the Helldrake, but hopefully the prevalence of reasonable anti-air will keep it in check as the edition moves forward.

I'd personally dislike playing in a group that banned flyers. But I'm just speaking as some guy on the internet who hasn't rolled dice in almost two years.

First part of that i agree with. Newer codices seem to be weakening the air superiority, i mean if youre in a flier heavy meta wtf would you not take a Tau Missileside team and/or riptide? But i believe slowly it wont be so "required" to have a missileside team in your back pocket. In fact in the rumors about the new Ork codex i'd be very surprised if the rumored new flier was incapable of taking out other fliers fairly reliably (or atleast better than dakkajets)

Second part, if you havent thrown dice that long thats probably why you dont understand why some people ban fliers. Im neither for nore against banning fliers but i find it much more enjoyable without them since they are not balanced between themselves (some fliers are just beyond stupid for the cost, while others are ungodly cheap for what they do). If they were normallized across the races it wouldnt be that bad, but Vendettas, Helldrakes, and Necron Airforce will always be a ridiculous threat until every army can deal with air without being completely dedicated to doing it.

At 750, planes are kinda silly. At 1500 maybe. I didn't use planes until recently, and it has been fun, I'll admit, zooming those things around. I would not really ever see you NEEDING them. But as everyone has already said: Best to have defense against them in tournies. I have three jets in my Eldar list right now and you most definitely dont want them in the sky any longerthan you can afford.

My group doesn't use flyers...but it's probably because we use my models for every player andi only own one stormraven....since I'm the only one that is familiar enough with the rules to play without looking at the rule book frequently, we stay away from having one flier between four people

 Grey Templar wrote:
As for missing out on the game. Yes, I'd say you are missing out on most of what the game has to offer.

I have to admit that I am at a loss as to how leaving out a single type of vehicle from games equates to missing out on *most* of what the game has to offer. All they are missing out on using flyers and having to worry about them.

Skriker

I prefer not to use flyers mainly because they are a pain to transport (my whole army fits into a large messenger bag type case) and they haven't release any non-forge world flyers that I like.

Luckily Tau come with great options for ground base AA

I don't do fliers either. It's not what 40K is about IMHO and doesn't really add anything to the game.

The current Flyers really shouldn't be seen as equivalents to fighter jets and bombers.

Really the closest equivalent is a ground attack helicopter. It still moves at high speeds but it is also pretty low to the ground and moving slow relative to a true fixed wing aircraft.

If they were really true fighters and bombers, nothing on the battlefield would actually be able to attack them. They wouldn't even be models, but just an asset that can drop a template anywhere on the table.

 Skriker wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
As for missing out on the game. Yes, I'd say you are missing out on most of what the game has to offer.

I have to admit that I am at a loss as to how leaving out a single type of vehicle from games equates to missing out on *most* of what the game has to offer. All they are missing out on using flyers and having to worry about them.

Skriker

I was referring to the point total and not the absence of flyers.

 Grey Templar wrote:


And 2k should only take 2.5 hours at most. If it takes you 4 hours something is wrong.

That's kind of an unfair statement. I've played 1500pts games that take 4+ hours simply because me and my opponent were having a lot of fun and/or chatting about things/tactics. I would really call that "something wrong."

Sure, but if you are actually trying to just play the game it shouldn't take that long.

Talking about other stuff is an exception(I do it too)


The OP says "I don't want to play 2k because it would take 4 hours" and then says they talk a lot. Well, there's the problem.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:


And 2k should only take 2.5 hours at most. If it takes you 4 hours something is wrong.

That's kind of an unfair statement. I've played 1500pts games that take 4+ hours simply because me and my opponent were having a lot of fun and/or chatting about things/tactics. I would really call that "something wrong."

I agree. 2.5 hours ISNT long enough for some games. Sorry but some people just take WAY longer to think. Frankly they NEEd moe time to think. It annoys me but I know that its not always intentional. Some people have no choice.

I only bought a Stormraven because I thought it would look awesome in Ultramarines colors...which it does.
It sits on my desk collecting dust.