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1. Monsters should be able to thunderstomp everything except other monsters. How can a giant or a dragon not be able to step on a man riding a horse or a smaller monster like an ogre? Makes absolutely no sense at all.
2. Have flank/rear charges disrupt steadfast.
3. Make wooded area terrain block LOS

When a unit fails a panic check, flees, and is caught by the pursuers, it should NOT auto-die. This is the most ridiculous rule in all of WHFB. I've seen massive units run down by a single figure. The most memorable time this happened was when an OK players' horde of 24 Ironguts was run down by a single friggin' Chaos Knight. I mean, what the frak? Reality is bent all the time in WHFB with no problem, but crap like that is just ridiculous.

~Tim?

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
When a unit fails a panic check, flees, and is caught by the pursuers, it should NOT auto-die. This is the most ridiculous rule in all of WHFB. I've seen massive units run down by a single figure. The most memorable time this happened was when an OK players' horde of 24 Ironguts was run down by a single friggin' Chaos Knight. I mean, what the frak? Reality is bent all the time in WHFB with no problem, but crap like that is just ridiculous.
~Tim?

You know, a good fix for that is that for each attack the pursuing unit has, it should do 1 wound with no save of any kind, the fleeing unit is then engaged in the rear.
The problem then becomes, with no unit max, some guys just won't ever die. Think of skaven slaves/goblins, you could take so many they'd never die.

-Matt

I wouldn't mind something like instant death appear in fantasy. Just make it so that monsters and chariots are immune to it or something.

Steadfast cancelled by flank or rear charges from substantial units.

 Son of Landuin wrote:
I wouldn't mind something like instant death appear in fantasy. Just make it so that monsters and chariots are immune to it or something.

I wouldn't like this. Characters are pretty awesome things in fantasy, and this would take a lot of that away. And Miscasts would be horrible...

How about steadfast is lost if charged in the flank or rear by a unit wih equal or greater " rows so even skirmishers that don't get ranks but have 10 models count as 2 rows of 5)

canadianguy wrote:
How about steadfast is lost if charged in the flank or rear by a unit wih equal or greater ranks.

...This already happens, and you don't even need to charge in the flank or rear....

Steadfast does need to be nerfed, but I'm not sure ranks are the answer. Personally, I think Steadfast should be broken if you take a certain percent of casualties in one round of combat, 20% perhaps.. But then I also think this percentage should be dropped to say, 10%, if the unit is charged in the flank or rear. And maybe Terror could cause this to be dropped to 10% as well, if the check is failed.

Cannons randomise hits between mounts and riders just like everything else has to.

No to randomize between mounts and riders for me, I enjoy the changes to monstrous mounts, etc.

I do like the idea of being able to Thunder Stomp anything aside from other monsters, that one makes sense.

And I second (or maybe third) the rule change for 50% victory points on half sized units.

Steadfast is not THAT BAD and there are plenty of ways to counter it. I would be on board for -1 to the flank, -2 to the rear penalty though.

From the hip, all values in the miscast table change from hits to a single wound with no saves of any kind allowed. In addition, to the Wizard who caused the miscast, the wound causes a permanent reduction of his wounds characteristic (assuming he's not dead). So the wound can never be healed by any means.

Ward saves are pretty much a given on casters. The idea that in some situation it's better to just have cheap casters alone, let them explode and die, and not get too attached. It also puts the risk factor a lot higher when rolling for boxcars.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
When a unit fails a panic check, flees, and is caught by the pursuers, it should NOT auto-die. This is the most ridiculous rule in all of WHFB. I've seen massive units run down by a single figure. The most memorable time this happened was when an OK players' horde of 24 Ironguts was run down by a single friggin' Chaos Knight. I mean, what the frak? Reality is bent all the time in WHFB with no problem, but crap like that is just ridiculous.

~Tim?

That doesn't represent them all dying, just fleeing off the battlefield beyond all hope of rallying.

My problems with the current edition aren't many but they are serious.

1: Flank and rear charges need to do more to break steadfast.

2: The magic phase needs less favouritism towards a single high level wizard. Horrors of Tzeentch, for example, suffer horribly from the current rules. Taking multiple wizards just means you run out of dice for them. Further, the number of dice doesn't change no matter how many points you're playing which I view as a problem as magic is really overpowered at 1,500 points but not much of a factor at 4,000 points.

3: Victory points for half dead units would alleviate a lot of the points denial nonsense.

4: Cannons need to be toned down vs characters on monster mounts.

That said, I like the current edition much more than 7th.

Make forests more impactful and less gimmicky. Cut down movement, or at least disallow marching.

Winds of magic...

It's a tossup between fear and cannons.

1) Cannons are simply too dependable, and the fact that they hit BOTH rider and mount at full strength is ridiculous. They need to be brought more in line with stonethrowers.

My suggestion would be to add a "reloading die." Roll a d6 in addition to the artillery die. On a 3-6 it shoots normally. However, on a 1-2 there are problems with loading/lighting the cannon and it can't shoot until next turn (but with no reloading die).

Misfires work as normal.


2) Fear also needs to be changed. Yes it was way OP in 7th edition, but between HYG and IP it's been nerfed to the point of uselessness in 8th edition.

Break tests should be taken at -1 against units with fear, and -2 against units with terror, and these bonuses should bypass steadfast.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:
It's a tossup between fear and cannons.

1) Cannons are simply too dependable, and the fact that they hit BOTH rider and mount at full strength is ridiculous. They need to be brought more in line with stonethrowers.

My suggestion would be to add a "reloading die." Roll a d6 in addition to the artillery die. On a 3-6 it shoots normally. However, on a 1-2 there are problems with loading/lighting the cannon and it can't shoot until next turn (but with no reloading die).

Misfires work as normal.


2) Fear also needs to be changed. Yes it was way OP in 7th edition, but between HYG and IP it's been nerfed to the point of uselessness in 8th edition.

Break tests should be taken at -1 against units with fear, and -2 against units with terror, and these bonuses should bypass steadfast.

The WS1 mechanic is ok, it's the process that sucks.
If you didn't get HYG or IP for fear tests, fear would mean something again.

Units gain ASF on the turn secussfuly charge a unit.
(only that turn and only against that unit)*

* should get rid of weird loop holes

 N810 wrote:
Units gain ASF on the turn secussfuly charge a unit.
(only that turn and only against that unit)*

* should get rid of weird loop holes

I wouldn't agree with this across the board, Initiative order is one of the more interesting parts of the game.

However, some weapons should definitely get ASF on the charge, its always bugged me when a unit of heavy Cav with lances strikes second, esp against any model covered with heavy armor or holding a very short weapon.

Change the minimum rank number to four instead of five. Yes, it bothers me THAT much.

I stick by house rules when it comes to terrain we use the magic portals or waystones and stuff here and there but woods we go by light and heavy light -1 to moves heavy - 2 and may not march or charge out of them this has been altered here and there depending on situations and still working on cover for them usually just act as a cover save or total line of sight block how close you are to the edge. Hills -2 movement. thats about it atleast when you do look close enough in the BRB it says and encourages you to make up house rules and that it is just a game.

 Coldhatred wrote:
Change the minimum rank number to four instead of five. Yes, it bothers me THAT much.

This would make the steadfast issue even worse though...

But I take your point, it is quite annoying how many units still come in 8s and 16s...

 The Shadow wrote:

 Coldhatred wrote:
Change the minimum rank number to four instead of five. Yes, it bothers me THAT much.

This would make the steadfast issue even worse though...

But I take your point, it is quite annoying how many units still come in 8s and 16s...

I think cavalry should be 4 models per rank, the same way that monstrous infantry/cavalry are 3 per rank. Brets can keep their special 3 models per rank Lance rule, but it makes it easier and cheaper for cavalry to get more ranks, which has become more important in 8th it seems.

Cannons and random movement both need fixing IMHO

 streamdragon wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

 Coldhatred wrote:
Change the minimum rank number to four instead of five. Yes, it bothers me THAT much.

This would make the steadfast issue even worse though...

But I take your point, it is quite annoying how many units still come in 8s and 16s...

I think cavalry should be 4 models per rank, the same way that monstrous infantry/cavalry are 3 per rank. Brets can keep their special 3 models per rank Lance rule, but it makes it easier and cheaper for cavalry to get more ranks, which has become more important in 8th it seems.

Now this is a pretty good idea, never thought of that before.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
When a unit fails a panic check, flees, and is caught by the pursuers, it should NOT auto-die. This is the most ridiculous rule in all of WHFB. I've seen massive units run down by a single figure. The most memorable time this happened was when an OK players' horde of 24 Ironguts was run down by a single friggin' Chaos Knight. I mean, what the frak? Reality is bent all the time in WHFB with no problem, but crap like that is just ridiculous.
~Tim?

You know, a good fix for that is that for each attack the pursuing unit has, it should do 1 wound with no save of any kind, the fleeing unit is then engaged in the rear.
The problem then becomes, with no unit max, some guys just won't ever die. Think of skaven slaves/goblins, you could take so many they'd never die.

-Matt

I like this idea let's face it when we look at historical battles cavalry disappeared for hours chasing a broken battalion, classic example is The Battle of Edgehill where the Royalist cavalry broke a couple of regiments and then disappeared chasing them. Therefore if your Knights break a big unit you can choose to either keep running it do the ground killing 8 models per turn (based on 8 knights with 1 attack each) or leave it to flee and either rally or run off the table. This would add an extra tactical dimension to whether or not to charge and what to do after combat.

There are two things that I think are way to strong as it stands right now, 1 Steadfast, Cheap units are just that, they are crappy fighters, they are meant to go die, not to be bought in super blocks that just go hang out. I feel that if you have to rely on that to win a game, then you need to work on your skills as a General. 2, Int base test or remove from play, Unlike S or T test, which are more or less average across all armies, The Int base test are way to spread out. as an average stat is is so far out of whack that is is almost silly to play against. It is simple the average Int for Lizards army is 1.75, the average Int of an Elf army is over 5. Just makes the case. Here is a really easy way to adjust this is, Magic Resistance allows saves against spells that do not allow armor or ward saves. now those expense items that grant MR, are useful, A star has little deference against a spell that will wipe it out, and is not an over the top counter.

Every Phase has its hard hitters.

Shooting has War machines, Misfire takes care of these.
Magic has the SMD (Spells of mass destruction) Sure a wizard could kill itself, but not until after the spell wipes out half an armies usefulness.
CC, (Insert name her) Death star. Can be countered

Idea #1: Casting & Dispelling bonuses

All Lord level casters get +2 to casting and dispel values
All Hero level casters get +1 to casting and dispel values

All wizards still know the same number of spells according to their wizard level

This will change army comp because you are less inclined to feel obgliated to take the level 4. Level 3 wizards will be more common for those that purely want to maximize dispelling potential without necessarily wanting to pour extra points into a level 4 because their list doesn't revolve as heavily around magic.

---

Idea #2: Spell Selection

Allow Hero level casters to select ONE spell from their chosen lore
Allow Lord level casters to select TWO spells from their chosen lore

It seems a bit ridiculous that a veteran caster (some who've lived hundreds or thousands of years) march blindly onto the battlefield and suddenly recall their spells right before the battle begins.

This idea could be exploited and potentially lead to only a select few power builds, so I could see this one not being as popular as Idea #1.

---

Idea #3: Dispelling Miscasts

Irresistable Force on a dispel can cause miscasts on the opposing wizard if:

TWO or more 6s are rolled by a dispelling LORD level caster
THREE or more 6s are rolled by a dispelling HERO level caster
FOUR or more 6s are rolled by a dispelling DWARF army (representing their innate ability to resist magic)

---

Idea #4: Channeling

THREE channeling dice per LORD level caster
TWO channeling dice per HERO level caster
ONE channeling dice per non-caster that can channel such as Warrior Priests

This won't break the game, but it'll help offset the randomized winds of magic 2D6 rolls. Plus it could be helpful in larger games if the 12 Power dice cap was removed.

---

Unrelated but I think all monsters with the TERROR rule should have stubbon, even at their poor LD of 4-6. I find it hard to believe a large monster flees because they killed 3-5 people but suddenly decide to take off because there's more ranks and banners (or heaven forbid, a musician making the difference).

Thoughts?

Reducing rank width isn't always great. You can get less units in B2B contact and thus get less attacks. Like, imagine if a special infantry unit was 3 ranks. Sure, a conga line would be steadfast forever, but they're only ever going to get 1 attack. So basically it's only good for sitting there and dying. I don't think that's what you're trying to do with cavalry.

MI and MC usually have a ton of attacks and wider bases, so they are fine with only needing 3.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

You know, a good fix for that is that for each attack the pursuing unit has, it should do 1 wound with no save of any kind, the fleeing unit is then engaged in the rear.
The problem then becomes, with no unit max, some guys just won't ever die. Think of skaven slaves/goblins, you could take so many they'd never die.

If a unit kept being run down, they would eventually run off the board.... but yeah, it's true on a regular game a 100 goblin unit would be almost impossible to get points from, that would take tarpitting to a whole new level.-

Slaves don't have that problem, they explode before that