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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/22 21:09:02
Subject: Re:Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Nothing more "do or die" then a apartment/house clearing fire fight....but then the chances of the "culprit" on the US having automatic's really slim.....unless we're hitting a drag cartel gang....especially one drug cartel gang made up of former SF members of the Mexican gov't....who's been trained by our SF guys....
SWAT needs retraining...serious retraining...like the last one we had on here....where the pudgy one fell at the door entrance that commenced a fire fight
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Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/22 21:10:23
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Or better yet, much less use of them. Why on earth does NASA have a SWAT team?
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/22 21:16:18
Subject: Re:Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Or better yet, much less use of them. Why on earth does NASA have a SWAT team?
Frazz...you even have to ask..........Snowden....aliens.....
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Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/22 21:18:07
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Maybe they know something we don't know?
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/22 21:19:51
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Longtime Dakkanaut
St. Louis, Missouri
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I knew that SWATs were starting to be over used, but raiding a VFW for illegal gambling? That's pretty insane...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 00:30:58
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Battleship Captain
The Land of the Rising Sun
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/10/detroit-police-girl-killed/2408763/
Another tragic example of why using military tactics and equipments to serve warrants and arrest petty criminals is wrong. You blind and deafen a person with a flashbang and then try to justify in front of the judge that they were not following your orders and that you had to open fire.
I've been following this trend in the US police forces with an increasing sense of dread and worry. As the old joke goes when you only have a hammer...
Unless heavily contested in front of the courts at every "horrible mistake" as the police PRs later say, the use of SWAT teams for common police work and the resulting divide between those that are supposed to protect and serve and the rest of the country can only increase.
IMO only by making commanding officers and judges that allow that kind of heavy handed tactics personnaly responsible in the following Civil suits for their grave mistakes can the use of SWAT teams for everything be curtailed. Perhaps if their personal assets are on the line instead of the city/county/state's, will they think twice if the use of a SWAT team is needed.
M.
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Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.
About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 00:33:21
Subject: Re:Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Fixture of Dakka
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Jihadin wrote:Nothing more "do or die" then a apartment/house clearing fire fight....but then the chances of the "culprit" on the US having automatic's really slim.....unless we're hitting a drag cartel gang....especially one drug cartel gang made up of former SF members of the Mexican gov't....who's been trained by our SF guys....
SWAT needs retraining...serious retraining...like the last one we had on here....where the pudgy one fell at the door entrance that commenced a fire fight
Nothing like getting grenades bouncing down the stairwell from above, eh?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SilverMK2 wrote:Hearts and minds rather than bullets and mines.
You win far more with the community on your side than you do when they are against you.
This incident, over a child custody dispute, could have gone horribly wrong. I don't know how many here remember it, but whoever decided to send in SWAT had their head firmly encased up their butt. Then again, it was Reno, the genius behind Waco and Ruby Ridge.
The picture says a lot:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/22/newsid_2489000/2489485.stm
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/07/23 00:42:38
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 01:49:15
Subject: Re:Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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When I was still crewing blackhawks......back in the days.....Young Uncle Specialist Wilki...we had a smoke grenade go off inside our aircraft from one of the grunts we picked up to do a air assault raid....last thing you want to hear...
"Redhawk 3...you have smoke coming out your aircraft" from a tailing aircraft behind you. Grunt got it off his vest and they tried to kick it out the door but slide behind the last row of seats.....up against the wall....the wall that has a fuel bladder behind it......
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Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 03:35:00
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
Gunblaze West
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Dont tell the rest of that story unless it involves you jumping out of a flaming helicoptor just in time for the explosion..... id like for me to keep that image of you in my mind whenever i see you post
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Kilkrazy wrote:We moderators often make unwise decisions on Friday afternoons.
kestril wrote: Page 1: New guard topic
Page 2: FW debate
Page 3: Ailaros and Peregrine fight. TO THE DEATH
I swear I think those two have a hate-crush on each other sometimes. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 04:15:58
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Nigel Stillman
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Why on earth indeed...
I guess the answer is that there is a heck of alot of stuff at NASA that you wouldn't be too happy if a terrorist (or forign agent) got their hands on.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 10:56:00
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Somedude593 wrote:Dont tell the rest of that story unless it involves you jumping out of a flaming helicoptor just in time for the explosion..... id like for me to keep that image of you in my mind whenever i see you post 
Get to er Out of da Choppa!!!
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 11:43:22
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
The Great State of New Jersey
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So military vets come back home and decide to play cop and have an over-aggressive response to the "threats" they face... anyone surprised?
No, it doesnt actually state that there were any vets on the team (or teams) in question, but i can guarantee you a good number of them were.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/23 11:45:33
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 11:44:43
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Vets coming home are not the problem. We've had that for over 200 years.
Police being equipped and taught to act like an occupation force is the problem.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 11:46:47
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
The Great State of New Jersey
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Frazzled wrote:Vets coming home are not the problem. We've had that for over 200 years.
Police being equipped and taught to act like an occupation force is the problem.
Where do you think they learned how to act that way??
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 12:32:12
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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chaos0xomega wrote: Frazzled wrote:Vets coming home are not the problem. We've had that for over 200 years.
Police being equipped and taught to act like an occupation force is the problem.
Where do you think they learned how to act that way??
Not there. It defies logic. We've had plenty of cops from WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam etc. etc.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 12:33:51
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork
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The same reason wizards keep Jolly Ranchers in their pockets, because why wouldn't they?
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Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 15:01:30
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon
Scotland, but nowhere near my rulebook
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They don't call them SWAT, the official name is XCOM
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 15:06:52
Subject: Re:Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Major
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d-usa wrote:Tread the police like military and they will start to think that they don't work for the people but that the people are the enemy.
Commander William Adama: There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.
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"And if we've learnt anything over the past 1000 mile retreat it's that Russian agriculture is in dire need of mechanisation!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 15:12:51
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Ew...thats good
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 15:20:52
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Grundz wrote:248 out of 250 rounds missed?
Jeeze guys, I'm not even a gun nut but if our greatest freedom fighters can only hit less than 1% of the time aren't baseball bats better home defense?
I mean I figure with those odds and that level of expertise I really do need at least a 1000rnd belt and an mg42 to stop a single burgler
A bow and arrow maybe? A pile of rocks?
The home owner did OK though - he hit 7/31 while being hosed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 15:21:23
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
The Great State of New Jersey
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Frazzled wrote:chaos0xomega wrote: Frazzled wrote:Vets coming home are not the problem. We've had that for over 200 years.
Police being equipped and taught to act like an occupation force is the problem.
Where do you think they learned how to act that way??
Not there. It defies logic. We've had plenty of cops from WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam etc. etc.
The occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan was significantly different from any of those. First, there wasn't much of an occupation after WW1. After WW2 the occupation was much more "friendly", in Korea, we never occupied the North, only the South which owed us one for saving their asses (and thus were pretty friendly). Vietnam is where things started to change in terms of occupation, and wouldn't you know it thats where things started to change in the police force too (moreso slightly afterwards once the vets came back and took their "civilian" jobs. It also doesn't help that in Iraq and Afghanistan, ACTUAL police officers from American towns and cities volunteered to go over there to both augment American forces who were short on MPs, etc. and to help train Afghan and Iraqi forces. They clearly picked something up and brought it back with them....
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 15:31:12
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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All I can add to this conversation is that I'm quite good friends with a guy who happens to be on the SRT (Special Response Team, like the Idaho Sheriff Dpt's version of a SWAT) and he seems to be as professional and competent of a guy as I've ever met. Regular patron of the arms range (I can outshoot him but only with a .45 1911, rifles or any other pistol he walks all over me) and from all accounts he gives me their training is reasonably comparable with Army infantry in scope, if not in consistency (they do use the Army physical assessment test, not that that really proves anything particular about job performance).
When people ask about how much force is necessary and how careful people need to be I'm just reminded of a police dashboard camera I saw once. An officer pulls a guy over for speeding, walks up to the car, and the driver just sticks a TEC-9 out the window and empties the magazine into the guy. I know it's an extreme example, but so is a lot of what people quote when they make claims of police brutality/police state.
Also, I just want to draw mention to the stupidest thing I have ever seen. It's not necessarily on topic but I think some people will get a kick out of it. It's called the "occupy vest". it's a padded vest (to cushion against beanbag rounds) that comes with a respirator to filter tear gas and a built in wire weave to short out tasers and stop them from stunning you. What exactly do you plan on doing with that equipment? You realize that means the only thing the police can do to stop you is a fire hose or lethal force right?
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Like watching other people play video games (badly) while blathering about nothing in particular? Check out my Youtube channel: joemamaUSA!
BrianDavion wrote:Between the two of us... I think GW is assuming we the players are not complete idiots.
Rapidly on path to becoming the world's youngest bitter old man. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 15:36:48
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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1. Its not how they enter a house, but WHEN they decide to use SWAt tactics to do so.
2. Yes, police occasionally get in shootouts with guys in cars. That doesn't pertain to SWAT assault entries for routine arrests or disturbances.
3. Vest - that just opens you up to getting the crap kicked out of you by a PR 24 doesn't it. Doesn't sound very smart...
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 15:41:33
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Frazzled wrote:
2. Yes, police occasionally get in shootouts with guys in cars. That doesn't pertain to SWAT assault entries for routine arrests or disturbances.
Sure it does.
If someone is going to pull a gun and shoot a cop for a moving violation, how unbelievable is it that someone would pull a gun and fire at police during an arrest? Or when police arrive at a domestic disturbance?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 15:42:00
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I'll address #2 in particular. The police officer in my example who got shot probably expected he was showing up for a "routine arrest" as well, right about the time that the driver stuck a submachine gun out the window at him. This wasn't a shootout, it was a seemingly completely normal speeding ticket that turned into the death of a police officer.
Obviously there has to be a balance between excessive force and proper preparation for the worst things can be (which can get very very bad indeed, very quickly). I guess I'd be a dictator's dream citizen, because when it comes to things like this I generally prefer excessive force over unnecessary risk to law enforcement.
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Like watching other people play video games (badly) while blathering about nothing in particular? Check out my Youtube channel: joemamaUSA!
BrianDavion wrote:Between the two of us... I think GW is assuming we the players are not complete idiots.
Rapidly on path to becoming the world's youngest bitter old man. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 15:46:17
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Kanluwen wrote: Frazzled wrote: 2. Yes, police occasionally get in shootouts with guys in cars. That doesn't pertain to SWAT assault entries for routine arrests or disturbances.
Sure it does. If someone is going to pull a gun and shoot a cop for a moving violation, how unbelievable is it that someone would pull a gun and fire at police during an arrest? Or when police arrive at a domestic disturbance? And? Thats been a potential issue since 1903. SWAT didn't get the major kickstart until the War on Drugs. No knock raids were started to try to prevent people from flushing drugs down the toilet, not a need for safety. Automatically Appended Next Post: dementedwombat wrote:I'll address #2 in particular. The police officer in my example who got shot probably expected he was showing up for a "routine arrest" as well, right about the time that the driver stuck a submachine gun out the window at him. This wasn't a shootout, it was a seemingly completely normal speeding ticket that turned into the death of a police officer. Obviously there has to be a balance between excessive force and proper preparation for the worst things can be (which can get very very bad indeed, very quickly). I guess I'd be a dictator's dream citizen, because when it comes to things like this I generally prefer excessive force over unnecessary risk to law enforcement. Agreed, you would be a dictator's dream citizen. Of course that breeds resentment and people viewing police as occupiers and acting accordingly. I've seen that game show already in East LA. no thanks.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/07/23 15:48:11
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 15:59:52
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Fixture of Dakka
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dementedwombat wrote:I'll address #2 in particular. The police officer in my example who got shot probably expected he was showing up for a "routine arrest" as well, right about the time that the driver stuck a submachine gun out the window at him. This wasn't a shootout, it was a seemingly completely normal speeding ticket that turned into the death of a police officer.
Obviously there has to be a balance between excessive force and proper preparation for the worst things can be (which can get very very bad indeed, very quickly). I guess I'd be a dictator's dream citizen, because when it comes to things like this I generally prefer excessive force over unnecessary risk to law enforcement.
Then again, you have examples like Ruby Ridge where a woman holding a baby is shot at range by a sniper who had a clear view and knowledge of what he was shooting.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/07/23 16:01:08
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 21:48:27
Subject: Re:Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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The LEO that goes over to train their LEO's do not go out on operations. Nor conduct typical LEO functions over there in public. No idea what they might have picked up besides what they hear in the DFAC....
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Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/23 22:07:41
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Relapse wrote:Then again, you have examples like Ruby Ridge where a woman holding a baby is shot at range by a sniper who had a clear view and knowledge of what he was shooting.
I'd disagree with this retelling of the events of that morning (specifically my bolding), while agreeing in principle that Lon Horiuchi is a murderer who escaped justice on a manslaughter charge.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/23 22:08:11
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/24 01:36:55
Subject: Rise of the Warrior Cop
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Fixture of Dakka
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Ouze wrote:Relapse wrote:Then again, you have examples like Ruby Ridge where a woman holding a baby is shot at range by a sniper who had a clear view and knowledge of what he was shooting.
I'd disagree with this retelling of the events of that morning (specifically my bolding), while agreeing in principle that Lon Horiuchi is a murderer who escaped justice on a manslaughter charge.
That whole deal was jacked from the word go when they started shooting dogs.
Janet Reno had a couple or more of these events where innocent people got killed. The whole Gonzolaz affair was a poorly handled, needless use of special units and could have easily been another Ruby Ridge or Waco.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/24 01:37:36
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