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 Vineheart01 wrote:
i dont think ive ever glanced any AV13-14 vehicle to death. In fact i rarely glance any vehicle to death, if i do its usually a lowly rhino in front of a squad of firewarriors or bad rolling lootas.

That is why you should go necron

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i dont think ive ever glanced any AV13-14 vehicle to death. In fact i rarely glance any vehicle to death, if i do its usually a lowly rhino in front of a squad of firewarriors or bad rolling lootas.

That is why you should go necron

Be glad that new gauss weapons don't autowound and ignore armor on sixes like before or else even more lists would have been very sad.

Come to think of it, the old Gauss rules seem to have been divided between the Necrons (glancing) and Eldar (feth yo armor save).

Vanquishers don't care about AV15, all I need is a slightly above average roll to pen it. I think that some vehicles should get AV15 like Baneblades and titans.

I like the concept of having larger things getting AV15, very suprised that after seeing the fortification get that some super heavies or titans didn't...

I want an AV15 land raider.

 Kain wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i dont think ive ever glanced any AV13-14 vehicle to death. In fact i rarely glance any vehicle to death, if i do its usually a lowly rhino in front of a squad of firewarriors or bad rolling lootas.

That is why you should go necron

Be glad that new gauss weapons don't autowound and ignore armor on sixes like before or else even more lists would have been very sad.

Come to think of it, the old Gauss rules seem to have been divided between the Necrons (glancing) and Eldar (feth yo armor save).

Gauss never ignored armour saves. It was auto-glance on a 6 or auto-wound on a 6. No armour save modification involved.

Was a common mistake for people to assume Gauss = Rending though, so...

Haywire weapons would make a pile of rubble out of it in short order, too... still, the concept of having AV15 *at all* worries me. I'm glad it's Apoc-only.

 Super Ready wrote:
Haywire weapons would make a pile of rubble out of it in short order, too... still, the concept of having AV15 *at all* worries me. I'm glad it's Apoc-only.

Why does it trouble you? Should titans with meters thick armor not have a better AV then Land Raiders?

They mention that no vehicle have an AV value higher than 14 or something like that.

Edit: Bastion Breacher shells are finally going to earn their name, if they can get into range.

 Kain wrote:
Perhaps stats higher than 10 and AV better than 14 should pop up more in apoc.

They really should.
You've got things that triple your Attacks for the Warlord, but it doesn't go over 10.
And some gigantic GMC's deserve more than 10 wounds.

AV15 is basically just so people can't fire spare shots at them and kill - you either need a substantial amount of melta shooting or some of your limited Str D weapons to target it. On the grounds that a single Str D shot will probably kill any building anyway, it seems fair that it's almost immune to "normal" shooting. If it was in anything but Apoc though it would be stupid.

 Kain wrote:
Why does it trouble you? Should titans with meters thick armor not have a better AV then Land Raiders?

Everything needs to have a reliable counter, or it unbalances the game. Even melta weapons still only have a half-shot to even glance AV15. There are still other options for things having better armour than Land Raiders, and for the most part this is done correctly - loads of hull points and restrictions on outright "destroyed" results. The direct counters then still work, you just need more of them proportional to the higher points cost of the Titan in question.

Kangodo wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Perhaps stats higher than 10 and AV better than 14 should pop up more in apoc.

They really should.
You've got things that triple your Attacks for the Warlord, but it doesn't go over 10.
And some gigantic GMC's deserve more than 10 wounds.

Attacks and wounds are allowed to go above 10 per the normal rules.

Toughness doesn't work because its not on the to-wound table.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i dont think ive ever glanced any AV13-14 vehicle to death. In fact i rarely glance any vehicle to death, if i do its usually a lowly rhino in front of a squad of firewarriors or bad rolling lootas.

Depends on the army. Tyranids almost rely on glancing vehicles to death.

 Grey Templar wrote:
As it should be. Otherwise bunkers wouldn't be a great place to be.

Bunkers are still a horrible place to be because people can walk up to your bunker and stick a flamer through a window. You really should embark on a flatbed pickup instead, then you're completely safe from flamers until they glance your transport to death...bloody messed up transport rules.

Vindicate assisin for those who don't know is a deadly sniper for grey knights that Can take different ammunition, one that has 4d6 Armour pen I think.

And another one that stops you from using invulnerable saves and (i think) shuts off that invuln save for the rest of the game. My riptide dreads the day that my GK opponent decides to pull that one on me.

Come to think of it, that might be a really fun strategy to use against demons... rerollable 3++? not anymore!

 Super Ready wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Why does it trouble you? Should titans with meters thick armor not have a better AV then Land Raiders?

Everything needs to have a reliable counter, or it unbalances the game. Even melta weapons still only have a half-shot to even glance AV15. There are still other options for things having better armour than Land Raiders, and for the most part this is done correctly - loads of hull points and restrictions on outright "destroyed" results. The direct counters then still work, you just need more of them proportional to the higher points cost of the Titan in question.

Lance weapons don't care for Av12+. Neither do gauss weapons. And armorbane weapoms still work all the way up to a theoretical AV 22 with the humble meltagun capping at AV 20. And the Vindicaire? Even higher. Destroyer weapons also care nothing for AV.

 dementedwombat wrote:
And another one that stops you from using invulnerable saves and (i think) shuts off that invuln save for the rest of the game. My riptide dreads the day that my GK opponent decides to pull that one on me.

Come to think of it, that might be a really fun strategy to use against demons... rerollable 3++? not anymore!

It only works against invuln saves from Wargear. It has no effect on special rules, which I think the Daemon invun saves all are.

Against daemons its all about Dark Excommunication. Because just everything is a Gift.

Its like each Dreadknight is a little Grinch, taking away all the daemons presents.

I don't know much about the demon codex, but do chaos marks count as wargear? Is wargear ever actually defined? It's just any option you buy for your model right?

I'm fairly certain that getting re-rollable 2++ invuln saves requires an item of equipment at some point!

If its an item, its wargear. If its a special rule it will be fairly obvious.

Marks are definitely special rules for example.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
And another one that stops you from using invulnerable saves and (i think) shuts off that invuln save for the rest of the game. My riptide dreads the day that my GK opponent decides to pull that one on me.

Come to think of it, that might be a really fun strategy to use against demons... rerollable 3++? not anymore!

It only works against invuln saves from Wargear. It has no effect on special rules, which I think the Daemon invun saves all are.

Against daemons its all about Dark Excommunication. Because just everything is a Gift.

Its like each Dreadknight is a little Grinch, taking away all the daemons presents.

Tailoring GKs against Daemons is like kicking someone in the balls with a steel spiked boot and then shagging their girlfriend for good measure. It's mean spirited and leaves the stinging sensation of violation behind.

Isn't OP'd the point of Apoc?

 ThouShallNotHeal wrote:
Isn't OP'd the point of Apoc?

Until meltas in a vendetta ruin your day that is.

I don't need to tailor, Dreadknights come with DE.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I don't need to tailor, Dreadknights come with DE.

I was just cracking a silky joke.