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 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
I am not entirely sure what you wanted from this thread.

You obviously were not looking for critique or constructive comments.

Agreement, perhaps?

This Emprah is tremendously underpowered for his points cost. My argument with the C'tan proved that.
Because I knew that for 1500 points it was silly underpowered I wasn't willing to make it more underpowered than it already was.
I actually was looking for constructive comments.
With that said and now hopefully known let's get back on track.
Would you play against it when I could bring 2 Transcendent C'tan for the same price Imotekh?
.

Why did you make this thread? I mean seriously. All of the comments have been constructive yet you just disagree with all of them and claim that you and your interpretations are right. Were you just looking for praise? If so you failed. There's no way of deeling with users like you... Like

Edit: I leave you with one last point. Sure the C'tan thing may be overpowered, there are a variety of units that are overpowered in 40k, Moritats, Vendettas and Necron flier lists spring to mind. But comparing your character to one of those overpowered units doesn't make him immediately fairly costed. You have still created an underpriced, over the top pointless rules set. But because its "cheap" in relation to one overpowered unit that makes it undercosted? No. I thought not.
People rage about OP characters so much because things like this break the game. When making a character our job is to make something fun, not make something that compares to a vendetta or c'tan. That's the understanding you seem to lack.

I could right now create a character with 3000 attacks and 100000000000 wounds and then cost him at god knows how many trillions of points and by your logic that would make him undercosted and playable.
I think I'm done here...

the emperor is going to be the single most powerful individual in the game. after that we're on our own, innit.

BaconUprising wrote:
Why did you make this thread? I mean seriously. All of the comments have been constructive yet you just disagree with all of them and claim that you and your interpretations are right. Were you just looking for praise? If so you failed. There's no way of deeling with users like you... Like blacksails and motyak. I'm out.

He's underpowered in an Apoc setting for his points cost. Did you read what the Transcendent C'tan is capable of at half the points? People if you're going to argue with my logic, you actually have to make an argument against my logic, otherwise I can keep pointing back to this. This is simple debate and on a board like this it is neccasary to understand.
When mathhammered the C'tan is about as good as .9 Emperors. My Emprah is twice the cost. My Emprah is underpowered.

Read two comments above.

BaconUprising wrote:
Why did you make this thread? I mean seriously. All of the comments have been constructive yet you just disagree with all of them and claim that you and your interpretations are right. Were you just looking for praise? If so you failed. There's no way of deeling with users like you... Like

Edit: I leave you with one last point. Sure the C'tan thing may be overpowered, there are a variety of units that are overpowered in 40k, Moritats, Vendettas and Necron flier lists spring to mind. But comparing your character to one of those overpowered units doesn't make him immediately fairly costed. You have still created an underpriced, over the top pointless rules set. But because its "cheap" in relation to one overpowered unit that makes it undercosted? No. I thought not.
People rage about OP characters so much because things like this break the game. When making a character our job is to make something fun, not make something that compares to a vendetta or c'tan. That's the understanding you seem to lack.

I could right now create a character with 3000 attacks and 100000000000 wounds and then cost him at god knows how many trillions of points and by your logic that would make him undercosted and playable.
I think I'm done here...

Also not true, any titan would wipe the floor with him as would any gargantuan creature. This is for Apoc where units that are overpowered compared to standard 40k are the norm.
In an Apoc and only an Apoc setting he's underpowered. In a normal setting he'd be overpowered to all hell. Also the C'tan would have to be really really OP for that argument to work because my Emperor is half the cost and about the same effectiveness
I agree with you that he's OP in a normal setting, but in Apoc he's nothing.

So you think your character is perfect?

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
I am not entirely sure what you wanted from this thread.

You obviously were not looking for critique or constructive comments.

Agreement, perhaps?

Pretty much this.

BaconUprising wrote:
So you think your character is perfect?

No he's far from it. He's something Ward or Goto would come up with and it doesn't feel good to say that.
I came here to make it not like that. This is an Apoc unit.
Now, how would you reccomend I fix it. That C'tan is a standard Apocalype unit, keep that in mind.

We should really look at fluff that we know as a certainty, not from lexicanum first, before we judge on the power of the Emperor. So a few things:
1) Is the Emperor more powerful than Primarchs?
YES. Far more so, the fact that marines referred to Primarchs as gods, and then the primarchs referred to the emperor as god-like puts in perspective to how powerful he was. So from this we can assume that the emperor to a primarch is what a primarch is to a space marine. But before we just say that lets have some evidence. Let us also compare a few other things. Next we have some of the meetings of primarchs with the emperor, most obvious one here is Russ and the emperor (who easily took out Russ) and mortarian and the emperor (of which the emperor passed the task mortarian could not). So we have proof he is more powerful than primarchs by a fairly large degree. And again finally on this subject the fact that all four gods had to back Horus just to give him a chance. So from all this it is very fair to assume he is head and shoulders more powerful than a primarch, especially if one of their greatest (horus) had to be massively empowered to stand a chance, and even gods realized that.

2) Horus had psychic powers? No he didnt. Read the horus heresy books, he never displays any until after his gifts of chaos.

3) The Ork. This is an unusual one. What do we know here? Ok, an ork did seriously become a threat to the emperor but this is what else we know:
A) It was the largest WAAAGGHH ever, period. Nothing had stopped it or been in its way in time or history, it had just built up unopposed with a population of orks that hadn't even slightly been stemmed as the galactic crusade was in its early days and so it was not a fledgling race but a full blown galactic empire. This is common sense, if nothing has stopped it, it has just grown. Next take some ork fluff, when a waargh is created it generates its own warp field of some sort that actually destabilizes and alters the space around it, it is likely that from a waaaggh of this size, the ork could have been an alpha level psyker. Lastly, orks are plants, they can grow and it has been shown that through great age they can really have small limit of what they can achieve size, psychic potential and strength wise. So honestly using this against the emperor is unfounded. Also there is the speculation that the emperor let it happen to cement his relationship with his son Horus.

4) The emperors power. Unfortunately despite knowing he is far more powerful than his primarchs, we do not know the full extent of his power. All we know is he was able to frighten the very gods themselves which means he must be a threat to even them. That ALONE should give us evidence of his power. He has subdued planets on his own, his psychic might is galaxy spanning (as shown by the astronomicon), and able to destroy planets, and when he fought horus he refrained from actually fighting as he didnt want to kill his favored child. It was only when he had no other choice he unleashed such severe psychic power that he did not just kill him but destroy his very soul and essence, something only the god slaanesh has been shown to do.


So what do we take from this? Firstly he should never be fielded, he is plain too powerful. But at the seminar they confirmed he will get rules so hey ho. Secondly that people should just read the books instead of reading publicly editable pages, anything can be on there. lastly, it is not impracticable to give the emperor psychic mastery 10 but only if he does no other actions that turn and is not in combat, as it has been shown that although the most powerful psyker, he was no natural. That was magnus, and that the emperor needed concentration to use his powers. Makes it a bit lie the 999pts tzeencth daemon lord that way. But I do say just adding 1 to all his stats from horus makes little sense... he needs a lot more bumping. And an auto-loss if he dies.

Looking though all of your threads I see your argument for every custom unit you have created has been "yes but __ can kill it" every unit no matter it's strength and cost-efficiency has something that can destroy it. That fact does not make it balanced. He's still overpowered. Yes he can be killed and yes easily by something massive in no way does that make him undercosted.

BaconUprising wrote:
Looking though all of your threads I see your argument for every custom unit you have created has been "yes but __ can kill it" every unit no matter it's strength and cost-efficiency has something that can destroy it. That fact does not make it balanced. He's still overpowered. Yes he can be killed and yes easily by something massive in no way does that make him undercosted.

Because someone in all those specifically says it can't be killed. Now how would you make this better and more balanced in an Apoc setting where my opponent has tons of cost effective ways to kill this. I'm trying to be friendly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 thorian wrote:
We should really look at fluff that we know as a certainty, not from lexicanum first, before we judge on the power of the Emperor. So a few things:
1) Is the Emperor more powerful than Primarchs?
YES. Far more so, the fact that marines referred to Primarchs as gods, and then the primarchs referred to the emperor as god-like puts in perspective to how powerful he was. So from this we can assume that the emperor to a primarch is what a primarch is to a space marine. But before we just say that lets have some evidence. Let us also compare a few other things. Next we have some of the meetings of primarchs with the emperor, most obvious one here is Russ and the emperor (who easily took out Russ) and mortarian and the emperor (of which the emperor passed the task mortarian could not). So we have proof he is more powerful than primarchs by a fairly large degree. And again finally on this subject the fact that all four gods had to back Horus just to give him a chance. So from all this it is very fair to assume he is head and shoulders more powerful than a primarch, especially if one of their greatest (horus) had to be massively empowered to stand a chance, and even gods realized that.

2) Horus had psychic powers? No he didnt. Read the horus heresy books, he never displays any until after his gifts of chaos.

3) The Ork. This is an unusual one. What do we know here? Ok, an ork did seriously become a threat to the emperor but this is what else we know:
A) It was the largest WAAAGGHH ever, period. Nothing had stopped it or been in its way in time or history, it had just built up unopposed with a population of orks that hadn't even slightly been stemmed as the galactic crusade was in its early days and so it was not a fledgling race but a full blown galactic empire. This is common sense, if nothing has stopped it, it has just grown. Next take some ork fluff, when a waargh is created it generates its own warp field of some sort that actually destabilizes and alters the space around it, it is likely that from a waaaggh of this size, the ork could have been an alpha level psyker. Lastly, orks are plants, they can grow and it has been shown that through great age they can really have small limit of what they can achieve size, psychic potential and strength wise. So honestly using this against the emperor is unfounded. Also there is the speculation that the emperor let it happen to cement his relationship with his son Horus.

4) The emperors power. Unfortunately despite knowing he is far more powerful than his primarchs, we do not know the full extent of his power. All we know is he was able to frighten the very gods themselves which means he must be a threat to even them. That ALONE should give us evidence of his power. He has subdued planets on his own, his psychic might is galaxy spanning (as shown by the astronomicon), and able to destroy planets, and when he fought horus he refrained from actually fighting as he didnt want to kill his favored child. It was only when he had no other choice he unleashed such severe psychic power that he did not just kill him but destroy his very soul and essence, something only the god slaanesh has been shown to do.


So what do we take from this? Firstly he should never be fielded, he is plain too powerful. But at the seminar they confirmed he will get rules so hey ho. Secondly that people should just read the books instead of reading publicly editable pages, anything can be on there. lastly, it is not impracticable to give the emperor psychic mastery 10 but only if he does no other actions that turn and is not in combat, as it has been shown that although the most powerful psyker, he was no natural. That was magnus, and that the emperor needed concentration to use his powers. Makes it a bit lie the 999pts tzeencth daemon lord that way. But I do say just adding 1 to all his stats from horus makes little sense... he needs a lot more bumping. And an auto-loss if he dies.

I did read the books, I beleive you noticed I made mention of the fact Horus had no powers pre ascendency.
I would have never made this thread until I heard GW was giving him rules

This has made for an interesting read

And I'm inclined to take your bet about Magnus lol.

Anyway, on track. An existing rule that you could use in place of some of the stuff you already have would be Lelith Hesperax's rule about number of attacks being decided by the difference in WS.

I'd lose the reroll hits and wounds, and you already get that with his high WS as it is.

 kitch102 wrote:
This has made for an interesting read

And I'm inclined to take your bet about Magnus lol.

Anyway, on track. An existing rule that you could use in place of some of the stuff you already have would be Lelith Hesperax's rule about number of attacks being decided by the difference in WS.

I'd lose the reroll hits and wounds, and you already get that with his high WS as it is.

Keep in mind all it would take for you to lose the bet would be ML 5 and a couple unique powers. I wouldnt take that bet if I were you.
I'll look into that when I get the chance, thank you.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

I would have never made this thread until I heard GW was giving him rules

To make a little correction to that, Forgeworld is making the rules for him eventually in their Horus Heresy books. For all we know it'll take years as I think he'll be the last in line.

 thorian wrote:
We should really look at fluff that we know as a certainty, not from lexicanum first, before we judge on the power of the Emperor. So a few things:
1) Is the Emperor more powerful than Primarchs?
YES. Far more so, the fact that marines referred to Primarchs as gods, and then the primarchs referred to the emperor as god-like puts in perspective to how powerful he was. So from this we can assume that the emperor to a primarch is what a primarch is to a space marine. But before we just say that lets have some evidence. Let us also compare a few other things. Next we have some of the meetings of primarchs with the emperor, most obvious one here is Russ and the emperor (who easily took out Russ) and mortarian and the emperor (of which the emperor passed the task mortarian could not). So we have proof he is more powerful than primarchs by a fairly large degree. And again finally on this subject the fact that all four gods had to back Horus just to give him a chance. So from all this it is very fair to assume he is head and shoulders more powerful than a primarch, especially if one of their greatest (horus) had to be massively empowered to stand a chance, and even gods realized that.

2) Horus had psychic powers? No he didnt. Read the horus heresy books, he never displays any until after his gifts of chaos.

3) The Ork. This is an unusual one. What do we know here? Ok, an ork did seriously become a threat to the emperor but this is what else we know:
A) It was the largest WAAAGGHH ever, period. Nothing had stopped it or been in its way in time or history, it had just built up unopposed with a population of orks that hadn't even slightly been stemmed as the galactic crusade was in its early days and so it was not a fledgling race but a full blown galactic empire. This is common sense, if nothing has stopped it, it has just grown. Next take some ork fluff, when a waargh is created it generates its own warp field of some sort that actually destabilizes and alters the space around it, it is likely that from a waaaggh of this size, the ork could have been an alpha level psyker. Lastly, orks are plants, they can grow and it has been shown that through great age they can really have small limit of what they can achieve size, psychic potential and strength wise. So honestly using this against the emperor is unfounded. Also there is the speculation that the emperor let it happen to cement his relationship with his son Horus.

4) The emperors power. Unfortunately despite knowing he is far more powerful than his primarchs, we do not know the full extent of his power. All we know is he was able to frighten the very gods themselves which means he must be a threat to even them. That ALONE should give us evidence of his power. He has subdued planets on his own, his psychic might is galaxy spanning (as shown by the astronomicon), and able to destroy planets, and when he fought horus he refrained from actually fighting as he didnt want to kill his favored child. It was only when he had no other choice he unleashed such severe psychic power that he did not just kill him but destroy his very soul and essence, something only the god slaanesh has been shown to do.


So what do we take from this? Firstly he should never be fielded, he is plain too powerful. But at the seminar they confirmed he will get rules so hey ho. Secondly that people should just read the books instead of reading publicly editable pages, anything can be on there. lastly, it is not impracticable to give the emperor psychic mastery 10 but only if he does no other actions that turn and is not in combat, as it has been shown that although the most powerful psyker, he was no natural. That was magnus, and that the emperor needed concentration to use his powers. Makes it a bit lie the 999pts tzeencth daemon lord that way. But I do say just adding 1 to all his stats from horus makes little sense... he needs a lot more bumping. And an auto-loss if he dies.

1: How "massively empowered" by the chaos gods was Hours and how do you alone seem to know?

2: If you had actually read what I was responding to then you would realise I was talking about possessed Horus who does infact have powers of Psychic manifestation

3:All primarchs have a measure of psychic potential within them. Can't be bothered to reference which book claims this but I'm sure it's the fist heretic. So yes Horus does actually have psychic powers even if they are not in his rules.

4: The fact that a single ork presented a genuine threat to the Emperor was the point I made, the ork in question was a warboss nit a psyker. Horus killed it easily yet the Emperor struggled.

5: Your point about the Emperor allowing Horus to kill the ork and it to attack him is unsupported currently and irrelevant unless a source is given and therefore contributes nothing to this debate.

6: Which planet did he subdue on his own? If you are referring to earth he had an army of thunder marines to help him, hardly by himself. Once again you have provided another argument with no reliable source to back it up. It is as well therefore irrelevant to the debate currently

7: "Refrained" suggests he didn't fight which is incorrect. He still fought and was significantly loosing, admittedly he didn't want to destroy his favoured son but Horus didn't allow him to get into the fight.

8: The Emperor unleashed a desperate psychic attack which Horus failed to counter as he was distracted

9: There's a good chance he will be fielded according to forge worlds Simon Egan

10: I have read all of the HH books that relate to this conversation, clearly you haven't or you simply fail to reference any of them in your arguments

Edit: this is the passage I am referencing the fight between Horus and the Emperor
http://members.tripod.com/orcrist_game/40k/id3.html

BaconUprising wrote:

 thorian wrote:
We should really look at fluff that we know as a certainty, not from lexicanum first, before we judge on the power of the Emperor. So a few things:
1) Is the Emperor more powerful than Primarchs?
YES. Far more so, the fact that marines referred to Primarchs as gods, and then the primarchs referred to the emperor as god-like puts in perspective to how powerful he was. So from this we can assume that the emperor to a primarch is what a primarch is to a space marine. But before we just say that lets have some evidence. Let us also compare a few other things. Next we have some of the meetings of primarchs with the emperor, most obvious one here is Russ and the emperor (who easily took out Russ) and mortarian and the emperor (of which the emperor passed the task mortarian could not). So we have proof he is more powerful than primarchs by a fairly large degree. And again finally on this subject the fact that all four gods had to back Horus just to give him a chance. So from all this it is very fair to assume he is head and shoulders more powerful than a primarch, especially if one of their greatest (horus) had to be massively empowered to stand a chance, and even gods realized that.

2) Horus had psychic powers? No he didnt. Read the horus heresy books, he never displays any until after his gifts of chaos.

3) The Ork. This is an unusual one. What do we know here? Ok, an ork did seriously become a threat to the emperor but this is what else we know:
A) It was the largest WAAAGGHH ever, period. Nothing had stopped it or been in its way in time or history, it had just built up unopposed with a population of orks that hadn't even slightly been stemmed as the galactic crusade was in its early days and so it was not a fledgling race but a full blown galactic empire. This is common sense, if nothing has stopped it, it has just grown. Next take some ork fluff, when a waargh is created it generates its own warp field of some sort that actually destabilizes and alters the space around it, it is likely that from a waaaggh of this size, the ork could have been an alpha level psyker. Lastly, orks are plants, they can grow and it has been shown that through great age they can really have small limit of what they can achieve size, psychic potential and strength wise. So honestly using this against the emperor is unfounded. Also there is the speculation that the emperor let it happen to cement his relationship with his son Horus.

4) The emperors power. Unfortunately despite knowing he is far more powerful than his primarchs, we do not know the full extent of his power. All we know is he was able to frighten the very gods themselves which means he must be a threat to even them. That ALONE should give us evidence of his power. He has subdued planets on his own, his psychic might is galaxy spanning (as shown by the astronomicon), and able to destroy planets, and when he fought horus he refrained from actually fighting as he didnt want to kill his favored child. It was only when he had no other choice he unleashed such severe psychic power that he did not just kill him but destroy his very soul and essence, something only the god slaanesh has been shown to do.


So what do we take from this? Firstly he should never be fielded, he is plain too powerful. But at the seminar they confirmed he will get rules so hey ho. Secondly that people should just read the books instead of reading publicly editable pages, anything can be on there. lastly, it is not impracticable to give the emperor psychic mastery 10 but only if he does no other actions that turn and is not in combat, as it has been shown that although the most powerful psyker, he was no natural. That was magnus, and that the emperor needed concentration to use his powers. Makes it a bit lie the 999pts tzeencth daemon lord that way. But I do say just adding 1 to all his stats from horus makes little sense... he needs a lot more bumping. And an auto-loss if he dies.

1: How "massively empowered" by the chaos gods was Hours and how do you alone seem to know?

2: If you had actually read what I was responding to then you would realise I was talking about possessed Horus who does infact have powers of Psychic manifestation

3:All primarchs have a measure of psychic potential within them. Can't be bothered to reference which book claims this but I'm sure it's the fist heretic. So yes Horus does actually have psychic powers even if they are not in his rules.

4: The fact that a single ork presented a genuine threat to the Emperor was the point I made, the ork in question was a warboss nit a psyker. Horus killed it easily yet the Emperor struggled.

5: Your point about the Emperor allowing Horus to kill the ork and it to attack him is unsupported currently and irrelevant unless a source is given and therefore contributes nothing to this debate.

6: Which planet did he subdue on his own? If you are referring to earth he had an army of thunder marines to help him, hardly by himself. Once again you have provided another argument with no reliable source to back it up. It is as well therefore irrelevant to the debate currently

7: "Refrained" suggests he didn't fight which is incorrect. He still fought and was significantly loosing, admittedly he didn't want to destroy his favoured son but Horus didn't allow him to get into the fight.

8: The Emperor unleashed a desperate psychic attack which Horus failed to counter as he was distracted

9: There's a good chance he will be fielded according to forge worlds Simon Egan

10: I have read all of the HH books that relate to this conversation, clearly you haven't or you simply fail to reference any of them in your arguments

Edit: this is the passage I am referencing the fight between Horus and the Emperor
http://members.tripod.com/orcrist_game/40k/id3.html

Dude just stop arguing if that's all you're gonna do. Everyone else seems to think the rules are a good start. The FW rules are probably gonna be more silly and cost less. You're welcome to stay if you stop arguIng and give ways to fix it.

BaconUprising wrote:

4: The fact that a single ork presented a genuine threat to the Emperor was the point I made, the ork in question was a warboss nit a psyker. Horus killed it easily yet the Emperor struggled.

He might have struggled indeed. When someone is a genius and a physic marvel like him, doesn't mean he is a combat genius or a immensely buffed up weightlifter. He's only been found on the battlefield a very few times. He'd be a bit above a Primarchs power as he defeated some of them in a duel.

To be honest I'm welcome to stay if I choose to... Anyway very few people think these are a good start 1-2 people have commented something positive about it. Honestly I think you should drop him 4 mastery levels change the equipment to a similar sought of thing I posted, drop the crazy extra psychic powers and change the stats to slightly better than Horus. Yo should be the point where you spfeel you can justify knocking a good 750 points of his cost.

I feel ver confident that when the forge world rules come out the will be FAR better than these...

Added that if good ole Emps dies horribly on the battlefield all friendly units commit seppuku.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BaconUprising wrote:
To be honest I'm welcome to stay if I choose to... Anyway very few people think these are a good start 1-2 people have commented something positive about it. Honestly I think you should drop him 4 mastery levels change the equipment to a similar sought of thing I posted, drop the crazy extra psychic powers and change the stats to slightly better than Horus. Yo should be the point where you spfeel you can justify knocking a good 750 points of his cost.

I feel ver confident that when the forge world rules come out the will be FAR better than these...

They will be FAR better, because they're written by pros.
None of us want to wait 4-5 year to get rules for him. That's what this is for. And no everyone else thinks the rules are good as a START. Only good as a start.
I can just call a mod on you. Who can proceed to kick you out of the thread. Now, can you be nice?

Who is this 'everyone else'? I'm looking at the thread and NOBODY says they are good for a start, except you.

If you agree they will be far better then why did you previously say that the rules would be "silly", these rules are silly unless you make the adjustments people have recommended... As said in my previous thread very few people think these rules are a good start and you seem unwilling to change them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

I can just call a mod on you. Who can proceed to kick you out of the thread. Now, can you be nice?

Please refrain from childish statements like this, besides I have broken no rules.
Of course if you really struggle to take criticisms as much as you exhibit here then you could after all have the thread locked. This however would just confirm my previous statement of how pointless this threads creation was as it clearly appears to be you hunting for compliments you never received. Your choice...

BaconUprising wrote:
If you agree they will be far better then why did you previously say that the rules would be "silly", these rules are silly unless you make the adjustments people have recommended... As said in my previous thread very few people think these rules are a good start and you seem unwilling to change them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

I can just call a mod on you. Who can proceed to kick you out of the thread. Now, can you be nice?

Please refrain from childish statements like this, besides I have broken no rules.
Of course if you really struggle to take criticisms as much as you exhibit here then you could after all have the thread locked. This however would just confirm my previous statement of how pointless this threads creation was as it clearly appears to be you hunting for compliments you never received. Your choice...

Mods alerted. I more or less meant that everyone else didn't think it was as bad as you did. I never said I got compliments.
Learn English. Saying something is good as a start means it needs large amounts of work.
When I said silly I meant they'd be more powerful for the cost. Which they will be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 curran12 wrote:
Who is this 'everyone else'? I'm looking at the thread and NOBODY says they are good for a start, except you.

Nobody SAID that. That's correct. They also avoided words like OP after I mentioned the Transcenedent C'tan was a standard Apoc unit.

"When I said silly I meant they'd be more powerful for the cost"
You tell me to learn English? Your statements seem to have double meanings that all us normal people are supposed to work out.
Once again your argument is based on the oh so credible source that is your predictions of the future.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 curran12 wrote:
Who is this 'everyone else'? I'm looking at the thread and NOBODY says they are good for a start, except you.

Nobody SAID that. That's correct. They also avoided words like OP after I mentioned the Transcenedent C'tan was a standard Apoc unit.

BaconUprising wrote:
"When I said silly I meant they'd be more powerful for the cost"
You tell me to learn English? Your statements seem to have double meanings that all us normal people are supposed to work out.
Once again your argument is based on the oh so credible source that is your predictions of the future.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 curran12 wrote:
Who is this 'everyone else'? I'm looking at the thread and NOBODY says they are good for a start, except you.

Nobody SAID that. That's correct. They also avoided words like OP after I mentioned the Transcenedent C'tan was a standard Apoc unit.

But hang on a minute...

 ThePrimordial wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
"When I said silly I meant they'd be more powerful for the cost"
You tell me to learn English? Your statements seem to have double meanings that all us normal people are supposed to work out.
Once again your argument is based on the oh so credible source that is your predictions of the future.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 curran12 wrote:
Who is this 'everyone else'? I'm looking at the thread and NOBODY says they are good for a start, except you.

Nobody SAID that. That's correct. They also avoided words like OP after I mentioned the Transcenedent C'tan was a standard Apoc unit.

But hang on a minute...

This Emperor is very weak for his points cost in an Apoc setting, and when he dies you lose and all your space marines, titans, tanks commit seppuku. Which is honorable suicide.
I can tell you the Forge World rules will have him at least viable in Apoc. As it stands he's not if you use these rules. He's just meant to be fun, nothing else.

Primordial. Mods are not your attack dogs to be summoned to do your bidding. You are making big assumptions that we would agree with your assessment of the situation. In future, hit the alert if you feel you must but do not threaten other users as if the situation is a foregone conclusion.

Both of you, Bacon and Primordial, tone it down. Bacon, if he doesn't want to change his stats then that's up to him, no matter how little sense it makes to you. Primordial, likewise, if your ideas make no sense to Bacon that is his prerogative as well.

The issue here is that you guys each think that there is an outcome here where you will 'win' to my eye. It's not gonna happen boys, welcome to the internet. If this idea has merit, the thread will live on. If it doesn't people will stop answering and it will die. If you think it doesn't have merit, do yourself a favor and stop answering so it can disappear.

You guys are both entitled to think what you wish, and you are both entitled to voice that opinion so long as you do not derail the thread repeating yourselves over and over again. That being said, neither of you have the right to be rude.

Agree to disagree and get on with it, without sarcasm it is simply the easiest most pleasant option available here for both.

Cheers.

BaconUprising wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
"When I said silly I meant they'd be more powerful for the cost"
You tell me to learn English? Your statements seem to have double meanings that all us normal people are supposed to work out.
Once again your argument is based on the oh so credible source that is your predictions of the future.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 curran12 wrote:
Who is this 'everyone else'? I'm looking at the thread and NOBODY says they are good for a start, except you.

Nobody SAID that. That's correct. They also avoided words like OP after I mentioned the Transcenedent C'tan was a standard Apoc unit.

But hang on a minute...

This Emperor is very weak for his points cost in an Apoc setting, and when he dies you lose and all your space marines, titans, tanks commit seppuku. Which is honorable suicide.
I can tell you the Forge World rules will have him at least viable in Apoc. As it stands he's not if you use these rules. He's just meant to be fun, nothing else.

and also a completely unfluffy, unneeded rule. You only put that rule in because you mistakenly believed that would balance him. It doesn't. I've already covered the argument you are trying to start again so I'm not going over it again...

Cheers MajorTom11, an any reason why your post wont show up on my page? Anyway I hope I'm not repeating myself, I feel what I have written s totally justifiable and appropriate to the thread. I'm not trying to be him to change his character, I'm simply informing him how annoying it is for other users to be bombarded with threads from people seeking praise. It winds quite a few people up as you have probably seen...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Primordial. Mods are not your attack dogs to be summoned to do your bidding. You are making big assumptions that we would agree with your assessment of the situation. In future, hit the alert if you feel you must but do not threaten other users as if the situation is a foregone conclusion.

Both of you, Bacon and Primordial, tone it down. Bacon, if he doesn't want to change his stats then that's up to him, no matter how little sense it makes to you. Primordial, likewise, if your ideas make no sense to Bacon that is his prerogative as well.

The issue here is that you guys each think that there is an outcome here where you will 'win' to my eye. It's not gonna happen boys, welcome to the internet. If this idea has merit, the thread will live on. If it doesn't people will stop answering and it will die. If you think it doesn't have merit, do yourself a favor and stop answering so it can disappear.

You guys are both entitled to think what you wish, and you are both entitled to voice that opinion so long as you do not derail the thread repeating yourselves over and over again. That being said, neither of you have the right to be rude.

Agree to disagree and get on with it, without sarcasm it is simply the easiest most pleasant option available here for both.
Cheers.

I don't really feel I need to tone it down however, I have argued logically and am simply trying to reach a conclusion that will benefit him. If he continues to ignore my advice and argue about the same point over and over that is no fault of mine but I will admit is rather tiresome to other users.

BaconUprising wrote:
Cheers MajorTom11, an any reason why your post wont show up on my page? Anyway I hope I'm not repeating myself, I feel what I have written s totally justifiable and appropriate to the thread. I'm not trying to be him to change his character, I'm simply informing him how annoying it is for other users to be bombarded with threads from people seeking praise. It winds quite a few people up as you have probably seen...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Primordial. Mods are not your attack dogs to be summoned to do your bidding. You are making big assumptions that we would agree with your assessment of the situation. In future, hit the alert if you feel you must but do not threaten other users as if the situation is a foregone conclusion.

Both of you, Bacon and Primordial, tone it down. Bacon, if he doesn't want to change his stats then that's up to him, no matter how little sense it makes to you. Primordial, likewise, if your ideas make no sense to Bacon that is his prerogative as well.

The issue here is that you guys each think that there is an outcome here where you will 'win' to my eye. It's not gonna happen boys, welcome to the internet. If this idea has merit, the thread will live on. If it doesn't people will stop answering and it will die. If you think it doesn't have merit, do yourself a favor and stop answering so it can disappear.

You guys are both entitled to think what you wish, and you are both entitled to voice that opinion so long as you do not derail the thread repeating yourselves over and over again. That being said, neither of you have the right to be rude. o

Agree to disagree and get on with it, without sarcasm it is simply the easiest most pleasant option available here for both.
Cheers.

I don't really feel I need to tone it down however, I have argued logically and am simply trying to reach a conclusion that will benefit him. If he continues to ignore my advice and argue about the same point over and over that is no fault of mine but I will admit is rather tiresome to other users.

I'm not seeking praise. Your changes make a 1500 point character that should be 900 even more unplayable. Simple as that I've adapted to other's posts, you are suggesting changes that are too extreme.
You're changes aren't logical because this is a fact.........he's weak compared to other Apoc models of similar cost. Compare him to a Reaver titan with a volcano cannon, apocalypse missile launcher, Vulcan mega bolter.
That's 30 S:8 AP:3 hits, A 10" S: D blast , & a S:10 AP:3 blast covering 125 square inches. Every turn for 1450. W/ 6 Structure points & 4 void shields.
All that was needed was to kick him out of the thread, he was the only one not giving helpful feedback.