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There's been ongoing discussion as to whether or not the Emperor will get rules in the HH series of codex thingies.If he does see rules, they won't be until the Horus Heresy sees it's final book.
If I were to make the rules fluff accurate he would be more points than a 40k scale battlebarge and have rules like "I'm the Emprah: stomp your opponents army for 6D6 seconds" & I want these rules to see use in very large games of standard 40k.
These are fairly rough.
.The Emperor of Mankind
WS BS S T W I A LD SV Points
8 8 7 7 7 7 7 10 2+/ 3++ Invul 900

Unit Type: IC
Unit composition: 1 Emperor of Mankind
Special Rules: Psychic Mastery 10, Psychic God, Awesom visage, The bindings of Mankind, Primarch (Don't know what else to call it)
Wargear: The Aquilla's Grasp, Golden armor of the Divine Aquilla, Sword of Mankind

Psychic Mastery 10: The Emperor is the single most powerful psyker in the galaxy, his mastery of the warp and the sheer feats he is capable of threaten the combined might of the Dark Gods. The Emperor generates 10 warp charges per turn, and may cast up to 10 powers per turn.

The Bindings of Mankind: The Emperor of Mankind's death on the battlefield would result in mass hysteria across the entirety of the Imperium, and the decay of the imperium as it kills itself without his leadership. When the Emperor dies on the battlefield all friendly units commit seppuku, and you lose.

Psychic God: The Emperor has all powers described in the BRB, and casts them as if they all cost 1 warp charge. The Emperor has a 2+ Deny the witch and ignores Perils of the Warp on a 2+.

The armor of the Divine Aquilla: This armor is the single most technologically advanced piece of wargear in the imperium. It grants him a 2+ armor save & a 3++ invulnerable save.

Sword of Mankind: This sword, took the Emperor countless centuries to perfect for it to be even with his standards. It acts as a melee weapon with the following profile: S+2, Rending, Armorbane, AP:1

The Aquilla's Grasp: A Lightning claw of massive size and might. It acts as a melee weapon with the following profile: S+1, Armorbane, Fleshbane, rerolls to hit and wound, Wounds inflicted decrease the S, & T of the target hit by 1 permanently. This stacks with the weapon's effect.

Awesome Visage: The Emperor is a beautiful sight to behold & those units that have line of sight with him have ATSKNF

Edit: Now without the additional powers he can't compete at all in Apocalypse. So now he can be used in standard 40k games.

This guy is INSANELY overpowered!!! He's supposed to be just stronger than Horus and this guy would kill him in a single round!
Here's my version:
The Emperor:
Ws-8
BS-7
S-7
T-6
W-6
I-7
A-7 (two hand weapons)
LD-10
Sv-2+ 3++

Equipment: The Eagle Claw, Rune sword, Hauberk of the Imperium, Frag grenades

Rules: Weapons Master (see Horus), Sire of the Space Marines, Psyker Mastery Level 5 ( knows all the powers of chosen discipline), Eternal Warrior, Teleportation Matrix (see Horus)

The Eagle Claw: Strength-10 AP-2 Rending
: (bolt weapon) Strength-5 Ap-3 Assault-4

Rune sword: +1 strength as user Ap-3, Shred, Always strikes fist

Hauberk of the Imperium: 2+ armour save, 3+ re-rollable invulnerable save

Sire of the Space marines: All space marines in the Emperors army gain +1 LD, additionally all space marines within 12" of the Emperor may double fire their weapons even if they have moved already.

Additional Psychic powers:
Annihilate: If at any point in the match The Emperor is reduced to his last wound he may automatically make a single attack on the model that did the last wound he suffered (only if in base contact). It hits automatically and wounds on a 3+. No saves of any kind may be taken against this attack and it kills the model instantly. If a vehicle does the wound then it immediately suffers a single penetrating hit with a +1 modifier.

BaconUprising wrote:
This guy is INSANELY overpowered!!! He's supposed to be just stronger than Horus and this guy would kill him in a single round!
Here's my version:
The Emperor:
Ws-8
BS-7
S-7
T-6
W-6
I-7
A-7 (two hand weapons)
LD-10
Sv-2+ 3++

Equipment: The Eagle Claw, Rune sword, Hauberk of the Imperium, Frag grenades

Rules: Weapons Master (see Horus), Sire of the Space Marines, Psyker Mastery Level 5 ( knows all the powers of chosen discipline), Eternal Warrior, Teleportation Matrix (see Horus)

The Eagle Claw: Strength-10 AP-2 Rending
: (bolt weapon) Strength-5 Ap-3 Assault-4

Rune sword: +1 strength as user Ap-2, Shred, Always strikes fist

Hauberk of the Imperium: 2+ armour save, 3+ re-rollable invulnerable save

Sire of the Space marines: All space marines in the Emperors army gain +1 LD, additionally all space marines within 12" of the Emperor may double fire their weapons even if they have moved already.

Additional Psychic powers:
Annihilate: If at any point in the match The Emperor is reduced to his last wound he may automatically make a single attack on the model that did the last wound he suffered (only if in base contact). It hits automatically and wounds on a 3+. No saves of any kind may be taken against this attack and it kills the model instantly. If a vehicle does the wound then it immediately suffers a single penetrating hit with a +1 modifier.

He fought Horus when he was possessed by all 4 Chaos Gods, and didn't instantly vaporize him because he thought there was still good in Horus. The Horus in the HH book Massacre isn't possessed by all chaos gods at the same time. The Emprah is supposed to be stronger than all the primarchs put together. Horus unbuffed isn't even the strongest primarch. That'd be either Magnus or Angron.

Horus is far more powerful than either of them and that fact is claimed by many different sources but that's not for this thread. With no actual evidence that Horus changes between his battle with the emperor and how he is currently you don't really have an argument.
I think my emperor is "playable". I simply can't see any army being able to fight or field yours...
PS the emperor was once nearly strangled to death by an Ork.
Also where exactly is it claimed ever that the Emperor is stronger than all the primarchs put together?

Although he is 1550 points, which is quite a bit.

BaconUprising wrote:
Horus is far more powerful than either of them and that fact is claimed by many different sources but that's not for this thread. With no actual evidence that Horus changes between his battle with the emperor and how he is currently you don't really have an argument.
I think my emperor is "playable". I simply can't see any army being able to fight or field yours...
PS the emperor was once nearly strangled to death by an Ork.
Also where exactly is it claimed ever that the Emperor is stronger than all the primarchs put together?

Nowhere, the fact that he could instantly vaporize a Chaos God buffed Horus implies a lot.
He being the Emprah likely planned it to test Horus. The ork in question if I recall was a warboss the size of a Soul Grinder.
He was possessed by all the Chaos Gods in the end of the Heresy. The Istvaan massacre was the beginning of the heresy.
How bout this, get a warhound & instagib the Emprah, or get 300 points of poisoned gaunts & run them up behind LOS, or get 2 bloodthirster to beat the sh*t out of him & kill him the instant they assault from 2 feet away with their higher initiative. Or get An'ggrath to come beat the crud out of him. Or how bout this.................you get your own custom character from the fluff that I'm obligated to let you use.
If I was going to use this I'd try to give the opponent every advantage I could with the table. I always play with enough buildings tall enough to deny LOS to something like An'ggrath every 18 or so inches.

The ork was nowhere near the size of a soulgrinder... I get the feeling that you are prone to exaggeration... He was also for the best part killed by Horus at the same time. Horus was also distracted when the Emperor launched his psychic attack otherwise he probably would have countered it.
I can't believe that you would even begin to think a 1500 point character was a viable option. I think you are in a minority if you think this is a balanced way to construct a character, even if he is the Emperor.

It's a good idea to have abase before creating a character, mine was Horus and I made him a bit more powerful. I'd be interested to know which your was...

This is for Apoc only, correct? As in, your opponent will also have Primarchs and Titans?

BaconUprising wrote:
The ork was nowhere near the size of a soulgrinder... I get the feeling that you are prone to exaggeration... He was also for the best part killed by Horus at the same time. Horus was also distracted when the Emperor launched his psychic attack otherwise he probably would have countered it.
I can't believe that you would even begin to think a 1500 point character was a viable option. I think you are in a minority if you think this is a balanced way to construct a character, even if he is the Emperor.

It's a good idea to have abase before creating a character, mine was Horus and I made him a bit more powerful. I'd be interested to know which your was...

Dude, Horus isn't even a psyker......The Emperor is also fathoms stronger than Horus. I had no base in making this because there's no middle ground between MCs and GCs & there's also no character stronger than the Emperor who's not a God in all the fluff. There isn't anything Horus could've have done to stop what was effectively a sun blowing up in his face contained in the ship.
If you base Empy's stats off an existing character in the fluff with stats you're already doing it wrong, because Empy is multiple times stronger than that character.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blacksails wrote:
This is for Apoc only, correct? As in, your opponent will also have Primarchs and Titans?

Yes, my opponent will have GC's, primarchs and Titans.

1: No he isn't, he's marginally stronger
2: If you know so much about possessed Horus you should know by now he is a pysker
3: Plasma technology is effectively a sun blowing up in a contained environment so that's not that impressive...

BaconUprising wrote:
1: No he isn't, he's marginally stronger
2: If you know so much about possessed Horus you should know by now he is a pysker
3: Plasma technology is effectively a sun blowing up in a contained environment so that's not that impressive...

Can we get someone else's opinion in on this. Blacksails in your opinion how much stronger is the Emprah than Horus.
All the fluff point to the Emperor being dozens of times stronger, with the description of the fight on Lexicanum saying Horus was inhabited by all 4 chaos gods and that the Emperor still could have vaporized him at any moment

No he literally had as much energy thrown in his face as a star exploding. Horus displayed no psychic powers until his final moments leading up to his final fight with the Emperor, that should be your hint.

Honestly, its a mess, and crazy over the top. Regardless of the balance, it just has too much going on.

Look at it reasonably; we have decent rules for Primarchs already. They're generally WS7 BS6 S6 T6 W6 I6 A5 LD10 2+ (4++).

The Emperor shouldn't be so much better that it descends into absurdity, so for representing him on the table top with the mediocre stat system 40k uses, we will up most of those stats by 1.

My proposal would be WS8 BS6 S7 T7 W6 I7 A6 LD10 2+ (3++)

There, he's a little worse than your stat line, but he's the combination of what we can expect from the other primarchs.

Now, the rest needs to be toned down considerably. WC 10 is just too much. Sure, he's the greatest human psyker that ever lived and probably one of the most powerful psykers ever, but WC10 just isn't a good way of representing him on the table top. The Emperor still has failings.

WC5 or 6 would be reasonable, where he counts all WC as 1 for the purpose of casting. Then allow him to select either two disciplines, or twelve powers in any order. The 2+ DTW is fine, and let him ignore perils on a 3+ instead, for balance sake.

Drop the absurd powers he has, being Light of Mankind and Blessings of a God. Take inspiration from the other primarchs for cool special rules and pieces of wargear that aren't crazy stupid over the top.

Just dial it back.

*EDIT* Oh, and a very important point I haven't made to you yet.

FLUFF =/= RULES

So many people make the mistake of reading a passage from a book and try to write a rule based on some absurd exaggerated writing. Do not base your rules as though they are literal interpretations of fluff. The fluff is weird, wonky, changes regularly, and interpreted vastly differently by dozens of sources.

Take a step back and look at this objectively from the perspective of the rules, not the fluff.

Ah now we really get to the heart of it. Lexicanum is unofficial and cannot be taken as cannon. No reliable source claims that the Emperor could have "vaporised him at any moment". Where exactly are you sourcing this information?

 Blacksails wrote:
Honestly, its a mess, and crazy over the top. Regardless of the balance, it just has too much going on.

Look at it reasonably; we have decent rules for Primarchs already. They're generally WS7 BS6 S6 T6 W6 I6 A5 LD10 2+ (4++).

The Emperor shouldn't be so much better that it descends into absurdity, so for representing him on the table top with the mediocre stat system 40k uses, we will up most of those stats by 1.

My proposal would be WS8 BS6 S7 T7 W6 I7 A6 LD10 2+ (3++)

There, he's a little worse than your stat line, but he's the combination of what we can expect from the other primarchs.

Now, the rest needs to be toned down considerably. WC 10 is just too much. Sure, he's the greatest human psyker that ever lived and probably one of the most powerful psykers ever, but WC10 just isn't a good way of representing him on the table top. The Emperor still has failings.

WC5 or 6 would be reasonable, where he counts all WC as 1 for the purpose of casting. Then allow him to select either two disciplines, or twelve powers in any order. The 2+ DTW is fine, and let him ignore perils on a 3+ instead, for balance sake.

Drop the absurd powers he has, being Light of Mankind and Blessings of a God. Take inspiration from the other primarchs for cool special rules and pieces of wargear that aren't crazy stupid over the top.

Just dial it back.

*EDIT* Oh, and a very important point I haven't made to you yet.


FLUFF =/= RULES

So many people make the mistake of reading a passage from a book and try to write a rule based on some absurd exaggerated writing. Do not base your rules as though they are literal interpretations of fluff. The fluff is weird, wonky, changes regularly, and interpreted vastly differently by dozens of sources.

Take a step back and look at this objectively from the perspective of the rules, not the fluff.

He isn't the greatest human psyker that ever lived, he's the greatest psyker EVER to have lived in the galaxy.
He would be so much ridiculously stronger than any other psyker it'd be silly. I can guarantee that when Magnus get's rules he'll have ML 6 at least & powers unique to him that replicate things like battle cannons that take up 1-2 warp charges. More likely 2
I remember in Epic Daemon Magnus (still tremendously weaker fluff wise) could toss around psychic powers, where one was the same as a volcano cannon. He could use that power every turn.
And by failings do you mean things like being insta killed by titans, taken apart by CC oriented MCs, overrun by genestealers or poisoned gaunts, being stepped on by Gargantuan Creatures, being swarmed and rendered useless due to being tarpitted, and the fact that when he dies he takes the army with him?

Also 1 more in every stat is absurdity?

If this was a literal interpretation of the fluff he'd instakill 15000 point armies by giving them amused glares.

Edit: I forgot.....in the new apoc there's a model called a transcendent c'tan that has similar powers and durability and is half the cost. Yeah.............figured I'd make you guys aware of this.

Will you not accept anything anybody has said? It's fine if you don't but I don't really see the point in posting these rules if you can't accept any feedback... The Emperor was not the immensely powerful person you think he was. Yes he was incredibly strong, but not much more than Horus and certainly not 1000 points more!

 ThePrimordial wrote:
I can guarantee that when Magnus get's rules he'll have...

No, you can't, and because you can't you aren't able to just throw this at us to justify your rules. Also you are making the same error you made in your initial titan here, giving something ridiculous rules and going 'but he costs XXX points so its ok'. No. Rules have to be balanced in and of themselves, not just by a huge points cost.

If you think something needs to be crazy silly over the top to be properly represented on the table top, then it shouldn't be put on the table top.

Fluff =/= rules.

Oh, and on a comedic side note, the Emperor was punked by some Warboss during the crusade.

So, yeah.

BaconUprising wrote:
Will you not accept anything anybody has said? It's fine if you don't but I don't really see the point in posting these rules if you can't accept any feedback... The Emperor was not the immensely powerful person you think he was. Yes he was incredibly strong, but not much more than Horus and certainly not 1000 points more!

Read the edited post above. I realize you created this before I edited mine. If we were to take a fluff perspective then yes the Emperor would be 1000 points more if Horus was 500.
Did you read the part about Magnus? That's what's gonna happen with his rules I guarantee it. There have been 2 people to post on this thread. You also ignored the points I made.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 motyak wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:
I can guarantee that when Magnus get's rules he'll have...

No, you can't, and because you can't you aren't able to just throw this at us to justify your rules. Also you are making the same error you made in your initial titan here, giving something ridiculous rules and going 'but he costs XXX points so its ok'. No. Rules have to be balanced in and of themselves, not just by a huge points cost.

I've been good with predicting the primarch rules so far. You also misquoted me by removing half of said quote.
How bout this I'll bet you $100 Magnus will be similar to the way I described if not exactly the same mastery level with the battle cannon power.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blacksails wrote:
If you think something needs to be crazy silly over the top to be properly represented on the table top, then it shouldn't be put on the table top.

Fluff =/= rules.

Oh, and on a comedic side note, the Emperor was punked by some Warboss during the crusade.

So, yeah.

I'm in what College freshman debate refers to as the winning side of an argument. I respond with answers you have yet to refute because you can't. If you had answers back you would put them to the keyboard.
This is on the same level of nerf from fluff to TT as the swarmlord. Which is saying something.
Yeah he was, he also suffered no lasting wounds and took said warboss' head.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 motyak wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:
I can guarantee that when Magnus get's rules he'll have...

No, you can't, and because you can't you aren't able to just throw this at us to justify your rules. Also you are making the same error you made in your initial titan here, giving something ridiculous rules and going 'but he costs XXX points so its ok'. No. Rules have to be balanced in and of themselves, not just by a huge points cost.

I've been good with predicting the primarch rules so far. You also misquoted me by removing half of said quote.
How bout this I'll bet you $100 Magnus will be similar to the way I described if not exactly the same mastery level with the battle cannon power.

I didn't misquote you, there was no need to include your pipe dreams of Magnus' rules, because that is all that they are. It also doesn't matter how close you think you have been in predicting their rules. You can't throw a 'I'm totally going to be right so this now makes sense' out as a justification for some proposed rules. That isn't how you go about justifying a made up statline and what not, you need to justify it with balanced, sensible rules and a reasonable poiints cost, rather than ridiculous, over the top rules and an extravagant points cost, because they do not balance each other out.

No there are 3 people. They all disagree with you. I have ignored only the points so pointless and unsupported by sources they are not worth answering like the Magnus one. You clearly aren't willing to accept any feedback from anyone. You also see to have a habit of making statements which are entirely unsupported and completely false.

You can't be sure that Magnus will be mastery level 5 or 6 and that certainly is not any kind of evidence to back up your argument. I know you want a crazy overpowered special snowflake of a character. Fine, that's cool. Just don't expect to post him on here and have everybody think they are great rules. Because they are not... They are...well...silly.

I understand that many people have a childish tendency to do this, that's why I'm not bashing you but please don't start threads like this when the are utterly pointless.

Ask almost every user on Dakka and see how they respond. I guarantee they will agree with me and the other two users above.

Edit: actually why don't you just post him in here and see some of the responses if you refuse to take my word for it...
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/430896.page

 motyak wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 motyak wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:
I can guarantee that when Magnus get's rules he'll have...

No, you can't, and because you can't you aren't able to just throw this at us to justify your rules. Also you are making the same error you made in your initial titan here, giving something ridiculous rules and going 'but he costs XXX points so its ok'. No. Rules have to be balanced in and of themselves, not just by a huge points cost.

I've been good with predicting the primarch rules so far. You also misquoted me by removing half of said quote.
How bout this I'll bet you $100 Magnus will be similar to the way I described if not exactly the same mastery level with the battle cannon power.

I didn't misquote you, there was no need to include your pipe dreams of Magnus' rules, because that is all that they are. It also doesn't matter how close you think you have been in predicting their rules. You can't throw a 'I'm totally going to be right so this now makes sense' out as a justification for some proposed rules. That isn't how you go about justifying a made up statline and what not, you need to justify it with balanced, sensible rules and a reasonable poiints cost, rather than ridiculous, over the top rules and an extravagant points cost, because they do not balance each other out.

This again..........yes If I make this model 10000 points he'll promptly be vaporized turn 1 & I'll be tabled. That's true right there.
Points and quality balance each other out at all levels of the spectrum.
Do you not think Magnus will have those rules? Because he'll have something very similar........

The Primordial wrote:I'm in what College freshman debate refers to as the winning side of an argument. I respond with answers you have yet to refute because you can't. If you had answers back you would put them to the keyboard.

You know, I had a lengthy response to help you understand how to make this character work.

But comments like this just don't fly when you solicit people's advice about something, especially when people continually tell you the same thing.

I'm done trying to help you understand why your units receive poor feedback from everyone. I'm done trying to show you how to create fair, fun, balanced units.

There's a reason myself, Motyak and BaconUprising all agree on the same points, yet you stubbornly refuse to accept because you continue to parrot the same thing, "But he's the greatest person EVER! So he needs to be the most absurd thing EVER!"

Good day.

BaconUprising wrote:
No there are 3 people. They all disagree with you. I have ignored only the points so pointless and unsupported by sources they are not worth answering like the Magnus one. You clearly aren't willing to accept any feedback from anyone. You also see to have a habit of making statements which are entirely unsupported and completely false.

You can't be sure that Magnus will be mastery level 5 or 6 and that certainly is not any kind of evidence to back up your argument. I know you want a crazy overpowered special snowflake of a character. Fine, that's cool. Just don't expect to post him on here and have everybody think they are great rules. Because they are not... They are...well...silly.

I understand that many people have a childish tendency to do this, that's why I'm not bashing you but please don't start threads like this when the are utterly pointless.

Ask almost every user on Dakka and see how they respond. I guarantee they will agree with me and the other two users above.

Edit: actually why don't you just post him in here and see some of the responses if you refuse to take my word for it...
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/430896.page

You're doing the same thing I did with the guarantee thing and that wasn't even directed at you...........

The Transcendent C'tan is also Apoc only and has more firepower and similar durability at half the points cost. Do you think this model can hold its own against a similarly costed Reaver titan?
The model is overcosted on purpose. To make people agree to play against it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blacksails wrote:


Edit in progress.

LOL

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 motyak wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 motyak wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:
I can guarantee that when Magnus get's rules he'll have...

No, you can't, and because you can't you aren't able to just throw this at us to justify your rules. Also you are making the same error you made in your initial titan here, giving something ridiculous rules and going 'but he costs XXX points so its ok'. No. Rules have to be balanced in and of themselves, not just by a huge points cost.

I've been good with predicting the primarch rules so far. You also misquoted me by removing half of said quote.
How bout this I'll bet you $100 Magnus will be similar to the way I described if not exactly the same mastery level with the battle cannon power.

I didn't misquote you, there was no need to include your pipe dreams of Magnus' rules, because that is all that they are. It also doesn't matter how close you think you have been in predicting their rules. You can't throw a 'I'm totally going to be right so this now makes sense' out as a justification for some proposed rules. That isn't how you go about justifying a made up statline and what not, you need to justify it with balanced, sensible rules and a reasonable poiints cost, rather than ridiculous, over the top rules and an extravagant points cost, because they do not balance each other out.

This again..........yes If I make this model 10000 points he'll promptly be vaporized turn 1 & I'll be tabled. That's true right there.
Points and quality balance each other out at all levels of the spectrum.

That's exactly the opposite of what I'm saying. You need to modify your rules to suit a realistic level of points, rather than creating a bunch of ridiculous rules and just going 'this many points, because if I jack it up enough it is balanced'. Again, this is exactly what you were doing in your initial titan thread, and look at how it went downhill. In your second titan thread you listened to reason and saw that just jacking up points didn't justify what you were doing, you needed appropriate rules with reasonable drawbacks etc.

 ThePrimordial wrote:
Do you not think Magnus will have those rules? Because he'll have something very similar........

This is so incredibly irrelevant to the topic at hand. I should just follow blacksails really, but I'll give you another chance.

To be honest, I don't think the Emperor can/should ever be represented by stats in a skirmish-level game.

Even if, as blacksails has said at length, RULES =/= FLUFF, it should attempt to show the fluff, even a pale shadow of it. I am sorry, but the emperor is a planet-wrecker and, even scaled down to the extent which everything else is should be able to level the battlefield.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
To be honest, I don't think the Emperor can/should ever be represented by stats in a skirmish-level game.

Even if, as blacksails has said at length, RULES =/= FLUFF, it should attempt to show the fluff, even a pale shadow of it. I am sorry, but the emperor is a planet-wrecker and, even scaled down to the extent which everything else is should be able to level the battlefield.

I was going to use good ole Empy in my weekly 6000 point per side Apoc game. This garbage about realistic point values and you probably assumed I didn't have a weekly game like that.
I said in the beginning if it was fluff accurate he'd literally be a million points and solo whatever he was up against.
This is exactly my logic. The model is over costed massively to make it okay to play against.
Seriously people go look at the Transcendent Ctan. This model I made is over costed to all hell on purpose.

 ThePrimordial wrote:
This garbage about realistic point values

If that's how you view my help then I guess I should follow blacksails, because there is really no point when there are others who will listen.

With those rules and stats he's tremendously OP.
Fluff wise you will never really know how powerfull he is now, and was during the heresy Most stuff was written in a propaganda point of view.

And comparing the rules for Magnus from the Epic scale game to normal 40K rules/Apocalypse wise is just silly.

 motyak wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:
This garbage about realistic point values

If that's how you view my help then I guess I should follow blacksails, because there is really no point when there are others who will listen.

This is called misquoting..........I have a 6000 point weekly apoc game. that thing about realistic point values is garbage

Also the Transcendent C'tan I keep talking about has more firepower with similar durability at half the points cost
Sky of Falling Stars - S7 AP3, Apocalyptic Barrage 6

Transdimensional Maelstrom - S9 AP2, 10" blast

Wave of Withering - S D, AP 1 Hellstorm template

Antimatter Meteor - 15" template, if you are 0-5 inches away from the center S10 AP1, 6-10 inches S8 AP3, 11-15 inches S6 AP5

Seismic Assault - S8, AP3, 6d6 shots
The C'tan does any 2 of these every turn and has 6 wounds, 9 toughness, & a 3+ armor save........ He is 800 points. My version of the Emprah is overcosted to all hell.
Blacksails and Motyak kept avoid this argument because it meant my Emperor is underpowered for his points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
With those rules and stats he's tremendously OP.
Fluff wise you will never really know how powerfull he is now, and was during the heresy Most stuff was written in a propaganda point of view.

And comparing the rules for Magnus from the Epic scale game to normal 40K rules/Apocalypse wise is just silly.

Refer to above. Pretty much any apoc only unit would stomp the everling sh** out of my Emprah
And yeah it is silly, those 2 didn't even know to give me that answer.

I am not entirely sure what you wanted from this thread.

You obviously were not looking for critique or constructive comments.

Agreement, perhaps?