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If I was runnin orks id field them I think the models are cool and im all about running fast ground troops. With sm I run a bike list most of the time ( I dont win often) because its how I play. I like to chase my opponents and run them into the ground.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:I feel all of Ork vehicles have been seriously hit by the hull point rules. With low armour values taking a big hit from the glancing rules all our vehicles barring BWs (and even they glance to death in cc) are much more fragile. Now I know this can be said of all vehicles in 6th edition but I feel orks have been hit hardest with our abundance of av10.

Statistically speaking, trukks have gotten tougher than before, because single glances can't destroy them anymore. Just the 2 HP vehicles have gotten more fragile, in addition to losing 4+ cover from the KFF.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Go against someone who brings big blobs or 4+ armor, scorcha buggies can be a pain in the ass since they move 12 and can still fire a S5 AP4 teardrop

Anyone who fields this will probably clear your buggies ASAP without sacrificing too much of their shooting phase so you don't even get the benefit of a cheap threat magnet. I want to see buggies re done like attack bikes so they are a t5 quad bike that can take 2 tl Dakka guns and get exhaust cloud and turbo boost. This would make them a more competitive choice vs deffkoptas.

The burna bommer also does the job of skorchas much better. I have literally bombed entire units of necron warriors off the table in a single shooting phase.

If you want skorchas - take killa kans or deffdreads
If you want TL Rokkit Launchers - Take deffcoptas
If you want TL Big shootas - Just stick 2 big shootas in a boys squad or on a trukk.

Although I stick them in with rokkit launchers in games where I have the points and FA slots left, I personally take deffcoptas to do the job of anti armour as you can take 5 of them in a squad. They are classed as jet bikes as well so you can get a better cover save I think (correct me if i'm wrong!).

I field both rokkit buggies and rokkitkoptas together on a regular basis, and I like them both. The koptas are more flexible with movement, but more expensive. The buggies are still manuverable and shooty, but a bit cheaper. The koptas tend to get shot off the table fairly quickly, but so do the buggies.

 Bonde wrote:
I field both rokkit buggies and rokkitkoptas together on a regular basis, and I like them both. The koptas are more flexible with movement, but more expensive. The buggies are still manuverable and shooty, but a bit cheaper. The koptas tend to get shot off the table fairly quickly, but so do the buggies.

Out of curiosity, are you making use of your scout movement prior to turn 1 starting? And where are you placing them? My koptas are dakka magnets too, so if I get 1st crack on turn 1, I scout move them forward. If not, I usually scout move them behind something that disrupts LOS as much as possible.

Yeah, I try to hide them behind LOS blocking terrain when I deploy them. I use their scout move and their speed to get them out on the flanks and behind the enemy army, and since they can just fly over intervening models they can get in behind tanks to really do some damage. The problem is that the opponent will likely target them with some heavy firepower, so they won't survive long, and rokkitkoptas aren't exactly cheap.

Using them for tank killers then, I take it?

I use my deffcoptas as anti tank and anti terminator. The S8 really comes in handy.

 DieselJester wrote:
Using them for tank killers then, I take it?

Yes, and if there isn't any tanks, I go for MC's or other stuff with a 3+ save.

 migs6357 wrote:
I use my deffcoptas as anti tank and anti terminator. The S8 really comes in handy.

Aren't deffcoptas real weak as well?

Anti-Terminator?

 Dakkamite wrote:
Anti-Terminator?

Burna boys, burna bomber, KMB and SAG, plus hordes of boys/lootas are general anti-termies, 30 shoota boys firing off 60 shots at terms, they're gonna roll (by the laws of average) a decent amount of

How are burna boys anti-terminator?

They cause millions of wounds
Not sure about the bommer though

only if the blob is large enough.

Yeah if its a 10man termie squad you manage to burna-wagon drive-by then its going to dump easily 100+ wounds on them. The usually 3-5 termie squads probably wont be as effective.

No idea how the Deffkoptas help with termies though. AP3 doesnt pen their armor, and i dont know of any termies that are multi-wound except boss ones to make the S8 paste them.

 migs6357 wrote:
If you want skorchas - take killa kans or deffdreads
If you want TL Rokkit Launchers - Take deffcoptas
If you want TL Big shootas - Just stick 2 big shootas in a boys squad or on a trukk.

Although I stick them in with rokkit launchers in games where I have the points and FA slots left, I personally take deffcoptas to do the job of anti armour as you can take 5 of them in a squad. They are classed as jet bikes as well so you can get a better cover save I think (correct me if i'm wrong!).

I strongly disagree.

Killa Kans are much slower than Wartraks, and larger so they cannot benefit as well from cover. Combine with with a neglible benefit to armour and you end up with a unit that is in no way a general "take this to get skorchas" choice nor a unit that fulfils the Wartrak's role of "fast hidden flanking skorcha" at all

Deff Dreads are slower and much more expensive. You want DCCW? Cool, take the dread. But if you want skorchas, the Dread is not the better choice.

Both of the above take up heavy slots, meaning they compete with more units that your likely to field as our heavy support is generally better than our fast attack.

Big Shootas are also fantastic on Deffkoptas btw. High mobility and outflanking means they can get behind tanks to nail rear armour, or get to backfield objective holders and strafe them to pieces.

As many other threads will indicate, both walkers are utter trash right now primarily because they are slow. There is no way they can replace warbuggies lol. Burnabuggie is what 35pts wthout trakks upgrade? So 105pts for a squad of 3? Deffdread would be 100pts so 5pts cheaper +2 armor on front BUT much larger and WAAAAY slower so the scorchas wont ever hit anything unless youre against a droppod list, so traveling isnt a problem.

Orks suffer from not enough points to take enough toyz to actually matter unless they make it their "deathstar" level of point dump. FA slot will never be used unless you want a random deffkopta or you wanna go dakkajets (which that would null the buggies to begin with). Heavy is literally the only slot we have we tend to fill out with ease because of kannon batteries...i'd rather "waste" FA slots than heavy slots since 180pts of Kannons is very deadly and poses a problem.

Actually contemplating reversing the ork motto when i get back to the states...toys before boyz....because i always feel like i dump 700-900pts on boyz in order for them to be effective and half of the games they still dont do anything. Though i do have 80 grotz to mess with....rofl

My question on the buggies (and by the way you're right, I never see them either) is this:

What's the plan?

They are cheap, so cost is no problem. I have a friend who plpayed with a ton of them. I think ill ask to borrow them. Ive never played orks before, justy against them. Twould be fun.

Best plan i could think of would be couple them with Bikernobz or Battlewagons. Wagons to hide behind that first turn, or bikernobz to draw attention. If they take out the buggies, the nobz are unscathed and will hit with a freight-train sized sludge hammer. If they shoot at the nobz, they most likely will only cause a handful of wounds and then the next turn they'll have 6-9 buggies burning their butts, allowng the nobz to charge something important rather than a blob of dudes.

Actually not a bad idea...hmm....

EDIT: I think this list is more playing on the surprise attack than actually working. Some players might go uh....wtf do i do? against this but how bout:



Koptas and buggies go up one side, nobz up the other followed by loota/lobba fire (and a quad). Keep the grots in reserve since theyre just for objectives (Crew can use the quad gun and still fire the lobbas, just has to be the same target and there needs to be 1 more crew than artillery to avoid sacrificing a shot). I didnt take 3 groups of buggies because face it 9 Scorchas is kinda overkill and the Deffkoptas will draw a lot of attention on their own as well, so i kinda got a 3 prong attack going on since he has to decide which to deal with.
Yes i dont have boyz in the list. Unless i went Wagons how would i use them except to just hold my own objectives? rather just have grots hide n seek (which isnt hard) for far cheaper.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Actually contemplating reversing the ork motto when i get back to the states...toys before boyz....because i always feel like i dump 700-900pts on boyz in order for them to be effective and half of the games they still dont do anything. Though i do have 80 grotz to mess with....rofl

This, I'm so sick of boyz man. On foot too many of them will die before they can be useful. In wagons you lose half when the wagon goes BOOM. Trukks don't carry enough of the things...

I really want to try a mass BW list using Nobs in Wagons. They always seem to get pushed aside in favour of Biker Nobs. While MANz are a cheaper source of Klaws you can always have too much of something, and the basic Nobs can give +1 WS, cybork and FNP - with FNP and possibly even the +1 WS transferring to characters. And good god what I hear about using these together in apocalypse, sounds like a blast

I love the Ork buggy models. I have 6 of them, however having said that, for the same cost, defcopters are just so much better this edition in both survivability and manuverability and they put out the exact same firepower.

I too can only bring myself to field buggies in games that are just for fun. If I put on my serious face for just a moment, they get replaced each and every time.

Vineheart01, that looks like an excellent idea. I am going to totally borrow those models.

 Dakkamite wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Actually contemplating reversing the ork motto when i get back to the states...toys before boyz....because i always feel like i dump 700-900pts on boyz in order for them to be effective and half of the games they still dont do anything. Though i do have 80 grotz to mess with....rofl

This, I'm so sick of boyz man. On foot too many of them will die before they can be useful. In wagons you lose half when the wagon goes BOOM. Trukks don't carry enough of the things...

I really want to try a mass BW list using Nobs in Wagons. They always seem to get pushed aside in favour of Biker Nobs. While MANz are a cheaper source of Klaws you can always have too much of something, and the basic Nobs can give +1 WS, cybork and FNP - with FNP and possibly even the +1 WS transferring to characters. And good god what I hear about using these together in apocalypse, sounds like a blast

Actually i did that once...i mean the nobs in a bw not spamming them. Was trying something out.
Nidzilla is hard without luck for orks to deal with i feel like. My solution? Ghazzy. He eats MCs for breakfast except the Swarmlord which i never see anyway since its a bit risky to take it. And he can put a lot of hurt on the swarmlord too actually if his waaagh is still around. My idea was to put him with regular nobz and a painboy. 4 nobz + painboy = reroll a dice for cheerleading and i got FNP unless he smashes ghaz, which is NOT worth it to deny me FNP if it isnt going to paste me anyway.

It actually worked quite well lol. That BW was there to give them an extra 6" charge range basically, otherwise it was just a deffrolla platform and LOS breaker. Rest of my list was kannons and lootas...nid player wasnt happy rofl.

Reason MANz are favored is because theyre much harder to take down, slightly cheaper, and only real penalty is not being allowed to run or overwatch or sweeping advance. Overwatch, meh its just 5-10 shoota shots (KS would be nice but sadly nope not for them). Sweeping advance? What the hell survives after 20+ S8/9 AP2 attacks? rofl. Running? Quite frankly after theyre dropped off if they need to run either your facing something normal Nobz will just fall over to (eldar bikers) or youve cleared the area anyway and now nothing even remotely near you is alive lol. Dont think ive ever ran anything after i got past the midfield.

Back on the boyz though: i usually field 80-90 in a 1750pt game with nobz. in the end theyre always just camping objectives, or i got a lone Nob that somehow is still around trying to charge something before getting shot off the board. Those 80-90 boyz are more than 1/3 of my army cost wise, and they usually dont do more than make my opponent go "Sht sht sht sht SHT!!" when he sees them get halfway across the board, and he already has a bikernob missile in his back door. This is why i kinda wanna stop using boys unless i wanna go a wagon list. 5 groups of grotz and a troop bikernob missile is 6 scoring units, those 5 units of grots are dirt cheap and either force long-range (i.e. expensive) gun fire to deal with or take an objective for free. Ive never had my random grot (or 2) group get shot off the board because the only thing that can needs to be firing at the nobz not the grots lol

picking up my friends models tonight! Orki times are ahead (for a week only)